Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
By way of an initial update: Now that I've begun driving my routine commute once again (with the Mobil 1 0W30 now installed) I've noticed: (and it's early on, but I'm just so excited) Less drag when engine braking, Easier than expected starting in chilly temps, And - here's a confusing one - more cracking and popping out the exhaust when decelerating or engine braking. It may well be that it's just due to my exhaust system getting worse, but I don't think so. Will know more conclusively on all this as the miles go by. BTW, this is in my gasser Saab, so only an only partly MB related topic Brian 84 Saab 900 On 12/30/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using Mobil 1 0w40 for the last five winters. I change to M1 15w40 for the summers. I live in Northern IL. My 83 300D has 192, 000 mi. on it, and I've put about half of these miles on as the second owner. When I got the MB even after valve adjustments, gp changes, etc., I had trouble starting it in sub 25 degree weather w/o it being plugged in. After changing to M1 0w40 and keeping up with the maintenance, since I changed to synthetic, winter starting has improved greatly over the dino stuff. BTW, I may burn 3/4 of a quart of M1 every 2, 500 mi. And...the car has quieted down greatly. Just my experience. MikeN ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 17:46:48 -0600 Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So it would follow that on a mechanical-injection engine, there is no preheating of fuel, and so any fuel that enters as a result of pumping is as cold as the fuel that enters without pumping. I'm assuming that an 83 240D is a mechanical-injection engine. And no, I'm still not an advocate of pumping, just referring to how my foot tends to want to do it to help things along. The '83 240D engine is a mechanical-injection engine. The depressing of the accelerator pedal determines how much fuel the injection pump will inject into each cylinder. The fuel isn't injected until the injection pump input shaft is rotated. It has pistons and cylinders, sort-of like a miniature version of your engine. The fuel isn't forced into an injection line until the small piston is pushed up by its cam shaft. The depressing of the accelerator pedal only determines the amount of fuel that can come out of pump and into each injection line. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Diesel injection pumps usually default to full fuel delivery at start -- no need to put the pedal down, the pump is already set for wide open. Peter
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
I am curious about this stuff - not trying to nit-pick, so indulge my further questioning if time allows. When you say that depressing the pedal determines how much fuel is delivered into the injection lines, I'm assuming you mean the level that the pedal is *held at during cranking*, not simply depressed to, then released. Yes? I imagine this is what you mean, since otherwise, one could (prior to running starter) press the pedal to a certain point, then a couple of seconds later press it to a different point, and so on, and the operative pedal press would have to be the last one? Brian On 1/7/07, Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The '83 240D engine is a mechanical-injection engine. The depressing of the accelerator pedal determines how much fuel the injection pump will inject into each cylinder. The fuel isn't injected until the injection pump input shaft is rotated. It has pistons and cylinders, sort-of like a miniature version of your engine. The fuel isn't forced into an injection line until the small piston is pushed up by its cam shaft. The depressing of the accelerator pedal only determines the amount of fuel that can come out of pump and into each injection line. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
What is the reason that the user's manual, and some folks I've heard, say that in cold weather, press pedal to floor once before running the starter? I've heard the terminology resetting the rack regarding this. Also, when it's cold, I know that you need to have that pedal down so that when the engine starts to run, it can be brought up to speed by your pedal pressure. And then you back off the pedal as the engine gets going. So under your description, one would not press the pedal prior to running the starter, then crank the starter, then, what, go ahead and press the pedal down when the engine sounds like it's going to start? Or are you saying don't touch the pedal at any point in the cold-starting process? Again, just trying to gather tips. Thanks Brian 83 240D On 1/7/07, Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Diesel injection pumps usually default to full fuel delivery at start -- no need to put the pedal down, the pump is already set for wide open. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:27:12 -0600 Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious about this stuff - not trying to nit-pick, so indulge my further questioning if time allows. When you say that depressing the pedal determines how much fuel is delivered into the injection lines, I'm assuming you mean the level that the pedal is *held at during cranking*, not simply depressed to, then released. Yes? The amount of fuel delivered by the pump at any instant (cranking or driving) is determined by the amount you have the pedal depressed at that instant -- assuming, of course, that the pump's input shaft is rotating. (If you don't rotate the input shaft, you don't get any fuel no matter where the accelerator is.) So, pumping only varies the amount of fuel that's injected versus time as you crank the engine. There is no accelerator pump like in a carburetted gasoline engine that will squirt extra fuel in. So, holding the pedal at half-way during the starting process will inject more fuel than if you had not pressed on the pedal. The fuel, of course, will be at the temperature of the fuel in the tank. Does that clear up the mud any? Craig
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 21:56:27 -0600 Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Diesel injection pumps usually default to full fuel delivery at start -- no need to put the pedal down, the pump is already set for wide open. I don't have time to re-read the engine manual's section on how the injection pumps for 61x engines work, so I can't comment on the veracity of the full fuel delivery at start comment, but during cold weather it definitely is necessary to push the pedal down 1/3 to 1/2 way to get the engine going -- to overcome the increased friction of a cold engine if for nothing else. I haven't read my 1982 240D owner's manual in that detail, but the 1972 220D owner's manual definitely did say to press the pedal down for cold weather starting. Craig
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Indeed it does. Thanks Brian 83 240D On 1/7/07, Craig McCluskey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 22:27:12 -0600 Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am curious about this stuff - not trying to nit-pick, so indulge my further questioning if time allows. When you say that depressing the pedal determines how much fuel is delivered into the injection lines, I'm assuming you mean the level that the pedal is *held at during cranking*, not simply depressed to, then released. Yes? The amount of fuel delivered by the pump at any instant (cranking or driving) is determined by the amount you have the pedal depressed at that instant -- assuming, of course, that the pump's input shaft is rotating. (If you don't rotate the input shaft, you don't get any fuel no matter where the accelerator is.) So, pumping only varies the amount of fuel that's injected versus time as you crank the engine. There is no accelerator pump like in a carburetted gasoline engine that will squirt extra fuel in. So, holding the pedal at half-way during the starting process will inject more fuel than if you had not pressed on the pedal. The fuel, of course, will be at the temperature of the fuel in the tank. Does that clear up the mud any? Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yup. I know pumping is bad - my foot just wants to do it. I'ts like, come on, baby, you can do it! Yes, starting is an emotional thing with me ;) - nothing worse to me than the sound of the starter running slower and slower. Need to get over it - I know. Yep, tho consider when you pump it you throw the pump into WoT and it starts dumping lots of fuel in the cylinders. This can make it REAL hard to start (when you DO get it to start after pumping you will be rewarded with a massive coloud of smoke, possibly blue/grey or maybe black depending upon how cold it is outside. -j.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
John wrote:when you pump it you throw the pump into WoT and it starts dumping lots of fuel As you say - that's the reason for not touching the accelerator pedal - not only do you get all that fuel in the chamber - it's very *cold* fuel to boot!Which means the GPs have a bunch more fuel to try and ignite, it's starting from a colder temperature. I believe it happens like this - you turn the key, a spritz of fuel is injected to the proper cylinders, concurrently, the GPs start heating the prechamber or cylinder depending on model - and you *eventually* start cranking after 15 seconds or so depending on temps etc - then, just as it's beginning to start, you push (or pump) the throttle pushing lots of of (un-needed), cold fuel into the prechamber - where it has to be heated before it can ignite - So pumping when trying to start in cold temps is a bad thing. Once it's running on all/most cylinders I suggest easing on the throttle slightly to get the revs to about 1000rpm and keep it there for ~30 seconds or so before driving off sedately. Happy winter dieseling! Larry T (67 MGB, 74 911, 78 240D, 91 300D) www.youroil.net for Oil Analysis and Weber Parts Test Results http://members.rennlist.com/oil PORSCHE POSTERS! youroil.net Weber Carb Info http://members.rennlist.com/webercarbs Porsche Road Test http://members.rennlist.com/roadtest/ . - Original Message - From: John W. Reames III [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 4:03 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 On Fri, 5 Jan 2007, Zoltan Finks wrote: Yup. I know pumping is bad - my foot just wants to do it. I'ts like, come on, baby, you can do it! Yes, starting is an emotional thing with me ;) - nothing worse to me than the sound of the starter running slower and slower. Need to get over it - I know. Yep, tho consider when you pump it you throw the pump into WoT and it starts dumping lots of fuel in the cylinders. This can make it REAL hard to start (when you DO get it to start after pumping you will be rewarded with a massive coloud of smoke, possibly blue/grey or maybe black depending upon how cold it is outside. -j. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.7/618 - Release Date: 1/6/2007
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
LarryT wrote: I believe it happens like this - you turn the key, a spritz of fuel is injected to the proper cylinders, concurrently, the GPs start heating the prechamber or cylinder depending on model... Actually, at least in a mechanical-injection engine, no fuel is going to get spritzed until you start cranking the engine.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
So it would follow that on a mechanical-injection engine, there is no preheating of fuel, and so any fuel that enters as a result of pumping is as cold as the fuel that enters without pumping. I'm assuming that an 83 240D is a mechanical-injection engine. And no, I'm still not an advocate of pumping, just referring to how my foot tends to want to do it to help things along. Brian David wrote: Actually, at least in a mechanical-injection engine, no fuel is going to get spritzed until you start cranking the engine.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
YMMV on pumping, two winters ago SWMBO decided to pump while trying to start and no dice. (She didnt kill the battery, just got annoyed). I followed the procedure in the manual and joyfyul happyness. -j.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Yup. I know pumping is bad - my foot just wants to do it. I'ts like, come on, baby, you can do it! Yes, starting is an emotional thing with me ;) - nothing worse to me than the sound of the starter running slower and slower. Need to get over it - I know. Brian On 1/5/07, John W. Reames III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: YMMV on pumping, two winters ago SWMBO decided to pump while trying to start and no dice. (She didnt kill the battery, just got annoyed). I followed the procedure in the manual and joyfyul happyness. -j. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Zoltan Finks wrote: Yup. I know pumping is bad - my foot just wants to do it. I'ts like, come on, baby, you can do it! I've been known to talk to the car to try to coax it into starting. Probably about as effective as pumping, and less wear on the throttle linkage. ;) Repeated pumping doesn't help a diesel at all, doesn't help a fuel-injected car at all, and can actually be counterproductive on a car with a carb. (That shot of gas from the carburetor's accelerator pump may, in moderation, help with cold starting, but repeated pumping is more likely to just flood the thing.) *One* pump before starting can be beneficial, though. On Mercedes diesels it's rumored to get the rack away from the stop position. On carbureted engines it often sets the high idle cam. And on some early throttle-body-injected Fords it calibrated the throttle position sensor.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On 1/6/07, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: *One* pump before starting can be beneficial, though. ... On carbureted engines it often sets the high idle cam. Or the choke, on cars with carbs, no manual choke, and no thermostatically operated automatic one. Alex Chamberlain '87 300D Turbo '92 Isuzu Trooper
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Zoltan Finks wrote: By this do you mean press pedal all the way down and release, or press pedal all the way down and hold there? Above freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out+15 sec. Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) Below freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out. wait 15 more sec (depress accelerator fully here). Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) slowly back off accelerator. It makes a BIG difference in cold starting. Pressing the accelerator while the engine is spinning is VERY different than while the engine is dead still. I have used this procedure on a dead cold engine (overnight sit with morning temp of 14F) without plugging it in, without problem. I didn't bother with the cord last winter, and this winter... well in baltimore, daffodils are coming up. -j.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Pershiate it. Brian On 1/4/07, John W. Reames III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Zoltan Finks wrote: By this do you mean press pedal all the way down and release, or press pedal all the way down and hold there? Above freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out+15 sec. Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) Below freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out. wait 15 more sec (depress accelerator fully here). Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) slowly back off accelerator. It makes a BIG difference in cold starting. Pressing the accelerator while the engine is spinning is VERY different than while the engine is dead still. I have used this procedure on a dead cold engine (overnight sit with morning temp of 14F) without plugging it in, without problem. I didn't bother with the cord last winter, and this winter... well in baltimore, daffodils are coming up. -j. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Just a note, When its REALLY cold out, like 0F or colder you'll want to glow +15-30 secs twice. I've never found any real advantage in a third glow but the second glow does seem to make a difference. Then crank and HOLD. I guess I agree with the crowd that said pump the accelerator and hold half way. So all the way down and back maybe 3 times then hold midway and crank until it starts or the battery dies. If its 0F or colder you've only got one shot, make it a good one. -Curt Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:51:12 -0600 From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Pershiate it. Brian On 1/4/07, John W. Reames III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Zoltan Finks wrote: By this do you mean press pedal all the way down and release, or press pedal all the way down and hold there? Above freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out+15 sec. Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) Below freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out. wait 15 more sec (depress accelerator fully here). Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) slowly back off accelerator. It makes a BIG difference in cold starting. Pressing the accelerator while the engine is spinning is VERY different than while the engine is dead still. I have used this procedure on a dead cold engine (overnight sit with morning temp of 14F) without plugging it in, without problem. I didn't bother with the cord last winter, and this winter... well in baltimore, daffodils are coming up. -j. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 05 16:24:53 2007 Received: from web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.41]) by server8.arterytc8.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H2rsC-0001kc-Of for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:24:53 + Received: (qmail 40786 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2007 16:21:38 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-YMail-OSG: WC6jHFAVM1mRmlzpMTlQuQMuFlco8dja5UvbufKt Received: from [63.209.225.74] by web32811.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:21:38 PST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:21:38 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel 2.1.9.cp1 Subject: Re: [MBZ] O.T. Lister Age Span X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:24:53 - I remember when I used to be the youngest at things, but at 30 I'm apparently an oldster... Heck when I still worked in tech support I was ANCIENT. -Curt Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 05:53:22 -0500 From: Sunil Hari [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] O.T. Lister Age Span To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed I thought I was the youngest at 26 ... whoops. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Fri Jan 05 16:28:56 2007 Received: from web32810.mail.mud.yahoo.com ([68.142.206.40]) by server8.arterytc8.net with smtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H2rw8-0001qe-Ei for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 16:28:56 + Received: (qmail 39818 invoked by uid 60001); 5 Jan 2007 16:25:42 - Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] X-YMail-OSG: hvc5aQsVM1kDVu_bnOSBFuX7_l2T1JcS2o8ncZ5F3a3snDicwzIlKX5JWlRNhZa9agp70TS8qt.Ni3rNoiRgUrpQAF6bGAOU0VbiTwqGuXyja2Iw6Yz9BTFs4WE6lnI0ixyPC_H_sDHq5MY- Received: from [63.209.225.74] by web32810.mail.mud.yahoo.com via HTTP; Fri, 05 Jan 2007 08:25:42 PST Date: Fri, 5 Jan 2007 08:25:42 -0800 (PST) From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Diesel List mercedes@okiebenz.com MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Content-Filtered-By: Mailman/MimeDel
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
It's good to be getting these cold weather starting tips. Kinda intersting: before I'd read any MB manual or heard any of this advice, I found through trial and error that my newly purchased 83 240D (with engine that would only last another few hundred miles) could really only be started in a strikingly similar fashion to what has been described (even though the coldest it was overnight there was around 40 or so). Actually I'd start cranking (after glowing of course) and then I'd hit it to the floor once and begin pumping as the starter cranked. I guess I'm a pumper due to my carbureted days. Brian On 1/5/07, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Just a note, When its REALLY cold out, like 0F or colder you'll want to glow +15-30 secs twice. I've never found any real advantage in a third glow but the second glow does seem to make a difference. Then crank and HOLD. I guess I agree with the crowd that said pump the accelerator and hold half way. So all the way down and back maybe 3 times then hold midway and crank until it starts or the battery dies. If its 0F or colder you've only got one shot, make it a good one. -Curt Date: Thu, 4 Jan 2007 22:51:12 -0600 From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Pershiate it. Brian On 1/4/07, John W. Reames III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, Zoltan Finks wrote: By this do you mean press pedal all the way down and release, or press pedal all the way down and hold there? Above freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out+15 sec. Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) Below freezing: Turn key to glow. wait for light to go out. wait 15 more sec (depress accelerator fully here). Turn key to start. Hold key in start until engine fires regularly. (Release key) slowly back off accelerator. It makes a BIG difference in cold starting. Pressing the accelerator while the engine is spinning is VERY different than while the engine is dead still. I have used this procedure on a dead cold engine (overnight sit with morning temp of 14F) without plugging it in, without problem. I didn't bother with the cord last winter, and this winter... well in baltimore, daffodils are coming up. -j. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Just catching up on my emails, I managed to get myself a case of food poisoning on a business trip to NYC day before yesterday. I'm still a little queasy but rapidly improving. Anyway, the starter didn't go any slower it just wouldn't spin for as long with the weaker battery. At -10F you need alot of spinning. IIRC you're supposed to let it crank for up to 1 minute. One time I had a couple glowplugs out on the 240D, the GP light didn't come on at all. It'd start down to about 30F but it took alot of cranking to get it to go and when it did there'd be a big cloud of smoke. Remember this, when you decide to start your car START it. None of this pussyfooting around. If its really cold let it glow for 2 full cycles (I haven't found any advantage in more than that) hold the accelerator to the floor and CRANK UNTIL IT STARTS or the battery is dead. If you stop cranking early you're screwed it'll be double hard to start after that. In that case with my car it was time to get out the strap and fire up the pickup truck for a drag around the block. My 190D starts much more easily in the cold. I got it because staring the 240D was wearing on me. Then we bought the house so now I have somewhere to plug in the car... -Curt Date: Tue, 2 Jan 2007 13:51:18 -0600 From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed That's interesting about the battery. Did it not sound differently - I mean, the starter didn't audibly sound slower? Maybe it was the frog in the kettle syndrome. Encouraging that starts are possible in those temps without a block heater. My 240D seems to need glow plugs right now - wouldn't start at all last time I tried (in about 30 degree weather). Must order some plugs from Rusty. Often, on my other car, if I have the time, I'll throw my small batt. charger on and set it to boost as I crank, if it's particularly cold outside, just to sort of keep the batt. from having to work so hard as I crank for a longer time. Of course I cringe, hoping the batt. won't explode. Brian 83 240D __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thu Jan 04 15:34:25 2007 Received: from odin.envisagenow.com ([12.2.42.104]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H2Ubp-0003dB-Jw for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:34:25 + Received: from STREIB ([12.2.42.59]) by odin.envisagenow.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:31:14 -0500 Received: by STREIB (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Thu, 4 Jan 2007 10:31:14 -0500 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com References: [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 10:31:14 -0500 In-Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Curt Raymond's message of Thu, 4 Jan 2007 07:17:17 -0800 (PST)) Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) XEmacs/21.4.19 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-OriginalArrivalTime: 04 Jan 2007 15:31:14.0073 (UTC) FILETIME=[5E783090:01C73015] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Jan 2007 15:34:26 - Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Remember this, when you decide to start your car START it. None of this pussyfooting around. If its really cold let it glow for 2 full cycles (I haven't found any advantage in more than that) hold the accelerator to the floor and CRANK UNTIL IT STARTS or the battery is dead. Agree with crank until it starts but in my 300D I seem to have better luck by pressing the accelerator to the floor, then releasing it, and then cranking without any throttle, or a very slight throttle, until it starts firing. Then gradually give it more throttle until it is firing on all cylinders. I've heard this hold the throttle to the floor recommendation from several sources but when I do it, it seems to dump in too much fuel (or otherwise squelch the combustion) and it does not start firing until I release the throttle. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Allan Streib wrote: Agree with crank until it starts... Me too. A VW mechanic once told me he instructed his customers to crank it until it starts or until it becomes clear it's not going to, because if you stop and then try again, you've essentially started the process all over again. In cold weather you may only have the battery power for one shot at it. He also noted that if the car is going to start, it will probably fire within the first 15 seconds. (15 seconds doesn't sound like much, but it seems like a long time when you're cranking an engine.) It's also important to not release the key the first time the engine fires, like you would on a gasoline engine. Keep it turned until the engine is actually *running*. Otherwise it tends to fire once and then die. I don't remember what the Mercedes manual says, but the one for my VW said to hold the key in the start position until the engine is firing regularly or words to that effect. I've heard this hold the throttle to the floor recommendation from several sources but when I do it, it seems to dump in too much fuel (or otherwise squelch the combustion) and it does not start firing until I release the throttle. I had the best luck with 1/3 to 1/2 throttle, myself. I'd hold it there while cranking, then slowly back off as the engine picked up speed, trying to keep it around 1,000 RPM until all the cylinders were firing. This was on cold starts. On hot starts I didn't touch the throttle.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
On Thu, 4 Jan 2007, David Brodbeck wrote: It's also important to not release the key the first time the engine fires, like you would on a gasoline engine. Keep it turned until the engine is actually *running*. Otherwise it tends to fire once and then die. I don't remember what the Mercedes manual says, but the one for my VW said to hold the key in the start position until the engine is firing regularly or words to that effect. Yep thats about what the manual states. I read once that theres a cold-start mechanism in the bosch IPs that we use; if you press the pedal down (all the way) prior to starting cranking, it actually just moves the fuel rack stop to the cold-start position. (as opposed to WoT).. I think someone had diagrams of internals on that point up on the forums a while back -j.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
By this do you mean press pedal all the way down and release, or press pedal all the way down and hold there? Brian 83 240D John wrote: I read once that theres a cold-start mechanism in the bosch IPs that we use; if you press the pedal down (all the way) prior to starting cranking, it actually just moves the fuel rack stop to the cold-start position.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Often, on my other car, if I have the time, I'll throw my small batt. charger on and set it to boost as I crank, if it's particularly cold outside, just to sort of keep the batt. from having to work so hard as I crank for a longer time. Of course I cringe, hoping the batt. won't explode. Beware 'boost' settings, as many of the capacitors in the car's electronics are only rated at 16V. If the booster pushes it up in that area and you are charging in-circuit you could fry something you wish you hadn't. Still wondering if there's any hope for his Red top Optima that seems to just continually draw as much power as you put in it (sucked 5 amps for about 3 days straight before I disconnected it). If you're hoping you've found a nice doorstop or boat anchor, sure! As a battery? Forget it. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
My old 84 300SD (~200K at crunching) was regularly started at 24 without plugging in and at 14 once or twice. The 1985 300D use to have issues, but I found that I had a subtly failed GP relay (it lit the light but did not really work). Apparently water had wicked up under the cover, then past a cracked/broken o-ring into the box itself-It had close to a cup of water in it when I opened it! I have had no problems with cold-weather starting since then. Oh yeah, I use the older type (old stock here) red-top M1 15w50, and have for several years. I also adjust the valves every fall. -j. On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using Mobil 1 0w40 for the last five winters. I change to M1 15w40 for the summers. I live in Northern IL. My 83 300D has 192, 000 mi. on it, and I've put about half of these miles on as the second owner. When I got the MB even after valve adjustments, gp changes, etc., I had trouble starting it in sub 25 degree weather w/o it being plugged in. After changing to M1 0w40 and keeping up with the maintenance, since I changed to synthetic, winter starting has improved greatly over the dino stuff. BTW, I may burn 3/4 of a quart of M1 every 2, 500 mi. And...the car has quieted down greatly. Just my experience. MikeN ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Until the battery went bad my 240D would start really well down to about 20F. Below that it was alot of cranking but I could get it to start all the way down to about -5F without the block heater. Once the battery went bad starts colder than say 25F were a challenge. I dunno why I had blinders on to that one. I tripple checked the glowplugs, put in some anti-gel, had the valves set again, all sorts of hokum and we were still dragging the poor thing behind the pickup truck twice a week... FINALLY I dropped $65 at Autozone and it was back to being able to start again. The old battery just didn't have the capacity needed. -Curt Date: Mon, 1 Jan 2007 23:29:56 -0500 (EST) From: John W. Reames III [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII My old 84 300SD (~200K at crunching) was regularly started at 24 without plugging in and at 14 once or twice. The 1985 300D use to have issues, but I found that I had a subtly failed GP relay (it lit the light but did not really work). Apparently water had wicked up under the cover, then past a cracked/broken o-ring into the box itself-It had close to a cup of water in it when I opened it! I have had no problems with cold-weather starting since then. Oh yeah, I use the older type (old stock here) red-top M1 15w50, and have for several years. I also adjust the valves every fall. -j. __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com From [EMAIL PROTECTED] Tue Jan 02 16:38:21 2007 Received: from odin.envisagenow.com ([12.2.42.104]) by server8.arterytc8.net with esmtp (Exim 4.52) id 1H1meb-00020n-ET for mercedes@okiebenz.com; Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:38:21 + Received: from STREIB ([12.2.42.59]) by odin.envisagenow.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.1830); Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:35:17 -0500 Received: by STREIB (sSMTP sendmail emulation); Tue, 2 Jan 2007 11:35:22 -0500 To: mercedes@okiebenz.com From: Allan Streib [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 11:35:22 -0500 Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] User-Agent: Gnus/5.1007 (Gnus v5.10.7) XEmacs/21.4.19 (windows-nt) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jan 2007 16:35:17.0268 (UTC) FILETIME=[FC5DB540:01C72E8B] X-Antivirus-Scanner: Clean mail though you should still use an Antivirus Subject: Re: [MBZ] No glow. X-BeenThere: mercedes@okiebenz.com X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.9.cp1 Precedence: list Reply-To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Id: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes_okiebenz.com.okiebenz.com List-Unsubscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Archive: /pipermail/mercedes_okiebenz.com List-Post: mailto:mercedes@okiebenz.com List-Help: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] List-Subscribe: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com, mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 02 Jan 2007 16:38:23 - Jim Cathey writes: I measured resistance on all the glow plugs and they are all reading 0.3 ohms on my little Radio Shack digital multimeter. You did remove the plug from the GP relay before checking the five GP resistances? If you don't they're all in parallel and a bad one won't show up. Such low resistance is difficult for most meters to measure accurately, and 0.3 ohms is half what each GP should be. *Slap forehead* No, I did not unplug the connector. Will recheck as soon as I get back to the house. Allan -- 1983 300D 1966 230
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
That's interesting about the battery. Did it not sound differently - I mean, the starter didn't audibly sound slower? Maybe it was the frog in the kettle syndrome. Encouraging that starts are possible in those temps without a block heater. My 240D seems to need glow plugs right now - wouldn't start at all last time I tried (in about 30 degree weather). Must order some plugs from Rusty. Often, on my other car, if I have the time, I'll throw my small batt. charger on and set it to boost as I crank, if it's particularly cold outside, just to sort of keep the batt. from having to work so hard as I crank for a longer time. Of course I cringe, hoping the batt. won't explode. Brian 83 240D On 1/2/07, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until the battery went bad my 240D would start really well down to about 20F. Below that it was alot of cranking but I could get it to start all the way down to about -5F without the block heater. Once the battery went bad starts colder than say 25F were a challenge. I dunno why I had blinders on to that one. I tripple checked the glowplugs, put in some anti-gel, had the valves set again, all sorts of hokum and we were still dragging the poor thing behind the pickup truck twice a week... FINALLY I dropped $65 at Autozone and it was back to being able to start again. The old b attery just didn't have the capacity needed. -Curt
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Have you had a lot of batteries explode? Levi (: Still wondering if there's any hope for his Red top Optima that seems to just continually draw as much power as you put in it (sucked 5 amps for about 3 days straight before I disconnected it). On 1/2/07, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's interesting about the battery. Did it not sound differently - I mean, the starter didn't audibly sound slower? Maybe it was the frog in the kettle syndrome. Encouraging that starts are possible in those temps without a block heater. My 240D seems to need glow plugs right now - wouldn't start at all last time I tried (in about 30 degree weather). Must order some plugs from Rusty. Often, on my other car, if I have the time, I'll throw my small batt. charger on and set it to boost as I crank, if it's particularly cold outside, just to sort of keep the batt. from having to work so hard as I crank for a longer time. Of course I cringe, hoping the batt. won't explode. Brian 83 240D On 1/2/07, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until the battery went bad my 240D would start really well down to about 20F. Below that it was alot of cranking but I could get it to start all the way down to about -5F without the block heater. Once the battery went bad starts colder than say 25F were a challenge. I dunno why I had blinders on to that one. I tripple checked the glowplugs, put in some anti-gel, had the valves set again, all sorts of hokum and we were still dragging the poor thing behind the pickup truck twice a week... FINALLY I dropped $65 at Autozone and it was back to being able to start again. The old b attery just didn't have the capacity needed. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Ha. No, hopefully I'd have learned by now if I had. I've seen, or at least heard, two or three batterties explode when I worked at at service station. I think the cause was leaving them on a somewhat rapid charge for too long with the caps still on. And I think once I saw one explode from cranking the engine with the charger hooked up to it - this probably after being on the charger for a good period of time with the caps on? The bubbling noise, seeping sound, heat, and sulfer-like smell are all warning signs. But with many young men working in a busy shop with their attentions divided many ways, (some of them - not me- high on either pot or freon sucked straight out of a car's system) this can still happen. Brian On 1/2/07, Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you had a lot of batteries explode? Levi (: Still wondering if there's any hope for his Red top Optima that seems to just continually draw as much power as you put in it (sucked 5 amps for about 3 days straight before I disconnected it). On 1/2/07, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's interesting about the battery. Did it not sound differently - I mean, the starter didn't audibly sound slower? Maybe it was the frog in the kettle syndrome. Encouraging that starts are possible in those temps without a block heater. My 240D seems to need glow plugs right now - wouldn't start at all last time I tried (in about 30 degree weather). Must order some plugs from Rusty. Often, on my other car, if I have the time, I'll throw my small batt. charger on and set it to boost as I crank, if it's particularly cold outside, just to sort of keep the batt. from having to work so hard as I crank for a longer time. Of course I cringe, hoping the batt. won't explode. Brian 83 240D On 1/2/07, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until the battery went bad my 240D would start really well down to about 20F. Below that it was alot of cranking but I could get it to start all the way down to about -5F without the block heater. Once the battery went bad starts colder than say 25F were a challenge. I dunno why I had blinders on to that one. I tripple checked the glowplugs, put in some anti-gel, had the valves set again, all sorts of hokum and we were still dragging the poor thing behind the pickup truck twice a week... FINALLY I dropped $65 at Autozone and it was back to being able to start again. The old b attery just didn't have the capacity needed. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
I would have thought it more likely to be a spark in the vicinity during one of those charging times that caused the explosion? I wasn't aware that under normal circumstances you could blow up a battery simply by charging it... Or maybe it was possible with older batteries? Levi On 1/2/07, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ha. No, hopefully I'd have learned by now if I had. I've seen, or at least heard, two or three batterties explode when I worked at at service station. I think the cause was leaving them on a somewhat rapid charge for too long with the caps still on. And I think once I saw one explode from cranking the engine with the charger hooked up to it - this probably after being on the charger for a good period of time with the caps on? The bubbling noise, seeping sound, heat, and sulfer-like smell are all warning signs. But with many young men working in a busy shop with their attentions divided many ways, (some of them - not me- high on either pot or freon sucked straight out of a car's system) this can still happen. Brian On 1/2/07, Levi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Have you had a lot of batteries explode? Levi (: Still wondering if there's any hope for his Red top Optima that seems to just continually draw as much power as you put in it (sucked 5 amps for about 3 days straight before I disconnected it). On 1/2/07, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's interesting about the battery. Did it not sound differently - I mean, the starter didn't audibly sound slower? Maybe it was the frog in the kettle syndrome. Encouraging that starts are possible in those temps without a block heater. My 240D seems to need glow plugs right now - wouldn't start at all last time I tried (in about 30 degree weather). Must order some plugs from Rusty. Often, on my other car, if I have the time, I'll throw my small batt. charger on and set it to boost as I crank, if it's particularly cold outside, just to sort of keep the batt. from having to work so hard as I crank for a longer time. Of course I cringe, hoping the batt. won't explode. Brian 83 240D On 1/2/07, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Until the battery went bad my 240D would start really well down to about 20F. Below that it was alot of cranking but I could get it to start all the way down to about -5F without the block heater. Once the battery went bad starts colder than say 25F were a challenge. I dunno why I had blinders on to that one. I tripple checked the glowplugs, put in some anti-gel, had the valves set again, all sorts of hokum and we were still dragging the poor thing behind the pickup truck twice a week... FINALLY I dropped $65 at Autozone and it was back to being able to start again. The old b attery just didn't have the capacity needed. -Curt ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Levi Smith wrote: I would have thought it more likely to be a spark in the vicinity during one of those charging times that caused the explosion? I wasn't aware that under normal circumstances you could blow up a battery simply by charging it... Or maybe it was possible with older batteries? Overcharging plus plugged vent caps can burst a battery. Letting the battery heat up to the point where the plates warp and short can also spark an explosion. A battery being rapid-charged produces hydrogen gas at a pretty furious rate, so the atmosphere in and around it will be rather explosive.
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Indeed, maybe a spark introduced into the whole mix can be the cause in the case of bursting or exploding upon start attempt. Brian On 1/2/07, David Brodbeck [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Levi Smith wrote: I would have thought it more likely to be a spark in the vicinity during one of those charging times that caused the explosion? I wasn't aware that under normal circumstances you could blow up a battery simply by charging it... Or maybe it was possible with older batteries? Overcharging plus plugged vent caps can burst a battery. Letting the battery heat up to the point where the plates warp and short can also spark an explosion. A battery being rapid-charged produces hydrogen gas at a pretty furious rate, so the atmosphere in and around it will be rather explosive. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
I've been using Mobil 1 0w40 for the last five winters. I change to M1 15w40 for the summers. I live in Northern IL. My 83 300D has 192, 000 mi. on it, and I've put about half of these miles on as the second owner. When I got the MB even after valve adjustments, gp changes, etc., I had trouble starting it in sub 25 degree weather w/o it being plugged in. After changing to M1 0w40 and keeping up with the maintenance, since I changed to synthetic, winter starting has improved greatly over the dino stuff. BTW, I may burn 3/4 of a quart of M1 every 2, 500 mi. And...the car has quieted down greatly. Just my experience. MikeN
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
OK, I've been trying to stay out of another (repeating) oil thread, but here goes: The most wear that an engine experiences is during a cold start. Oil pressure isn't up, oil has drained down into the sump, and clearances are at their greatest. So it makes sense to use an oil (such as a good synthetic) that clings best to metal surfaces, and that will quickly flow through the passages when the pump starts. Heavy duty engines use pre-heating and pre-pressurization of the oil system before they start. Most car engines don't have that luxury, hence the need for some common sense like using a good oil, not loading the engine until it gets a bit of heat into it (Note: that does not mean idling for 5-10 minutes!). And gasoline fuel engines do not put as much loading on rod bearings as Diesels do, so a very thin oil works out OK. Also, the thinner the oil, the less work it takes to pump it through the engine, hence the claim for better mileage with 0W-40 rather than 10W-40 is theoretically true. And the car manufacturers have a vested interest in getting the highest CAFE ratings, and don't want the car to last forever, so they recommend the thinnest oil that will get them through the warranty period, and perhaps another year or two. But please remember that the manufacturer has a recommended oil viscosity for each engine, and I'm not aware that 0W- anything was ever recommended for 70s, 80s, and early 90s vintage M-B Diesels in our climates! That said, for a Diesel that you may want to last for 200, 300, or 400 thousand miles, it makes sense to use a C rated oil, such as the 15W-40 Delvac1. Remember, oil is less expensive than metal - meaning that an engine rebuild always costs more than you could possibly save by skimping on oil or using the wrong viscosity. Werner (sorry to keep this going) '90 300D '83 300SD '87 F150 - Original Message - From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 Not that I haven't taken heed of all the posts on this, but to my brain at least, the following excerpts (below) seem to make sense to me, and here's why: If there were no difference (negative) in using 0W Mobil 1, why doesn't everyone run it, and thus receive the (claimed on the bottle) benefits of better fuel mileage, and better cold starting (if that's an issue where they live) than the other weights of Mobil 1? In other words, most people would be running 0W if there were no side effects. Brian 83 240D 84 Saab 900 (received the 0W30 Mobil 1 last night) Curt wrote: I'd put 0w40 into my 240D and it leaked like crazy. Maybe a quart in 100 miles. I tried 5w40 (this was a couple years ago when the 5w40 was easy to find) and it leaked maybe a quart in 300 miles. 15w50 leaked a quart in maybe 350 miles, same with conventional 15w40. (snip) and: What have you been running in it up to now? You're mostly right about how the oil works but it is very thin and you shouldn't be surprised about it leaking more. (snip)
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
You know, I'm tired of feeling guilty for daring to mention an oil-related topic. If you've been through this a dozen times, just delete it. Yes, I could look in the archives (if they'd work) but part of my enjoyment of the list is talking to you fellas and getting feedback. And by the way, thank you Werner for the good info. Brian On 12/29/06, Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I've been trying to stay out of another (repeating) oil thread, but here goes: The most wear that an engine experiences is during a cold start. Oil pressure isn't up, oil has drained down into the sump, and clearances are at their greatest. So it makes sense to use an oil (such as a good synthetic) that clings best to metal surfaces, and that will quickly flow through the passages when the pump starts. Heavy duty engines use pre-heating and pre-pressurization of the oil system before they start. Most car engines don't have that luxury, hence the need for some common sense like using a good oil, not loading the engine until it gets a bit of heat into it (Note: that does not mean idling for 5-10 minutes!). And gasoline fuel engines do not put as much loading on rod bearings as Diesels do, so a very thin oil works out OK. Also, the thinner the oil, the less work it takes to pump it through the engine, hence the claim for better mileage with 0W-40 rather than 10W-40 is theoretically true. And the car manufacturers have a vested interest in getting the highest CAFE ratings, and don't want the car to last forever, so they recommend the thinnest oil that will get them through the warranty period, and perhaps another year or two. But please remember that the manufacturer has a recommended oil viscosity for each engine, and I'm not aware that 0W- anything was ever recommended for 70s, 80s, and early 90s vintage M-B Diesels in our climates! That said, for a Diesel that you may want to last for 200, 300, or 400 thousand miles, it makes sense to use a C rated oil, such as the 15W-40 Delvac1. Remember, oil is less expensive than metal - meaning that an engine rebuild always costs more than you could possibly save by skimping on oil or using the wrong viscosity. Werner (sorry to keep this going) '90 300D '83 300SD '87 F150 - Original Message - From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 Not that I haven't taken heed of all the posts on this, but to my brain at least, the following excerpts (below) seem to make sense to me, and here's why: If there were no difference (negative) in using 0W Mobil 1, why doesn't everyone run it, and thus receive the (claimed on the bottle) benefits of better fuel mileage, and better cold starting (if that's an issue where they live) than the other weights of Mobil 1? In other words, most people would be running 0W if there were no side effects. Brian 83 240D 84 Saab 900 (received the 0W30 Mobil 1 last night) Curt wrote: I'd put 0w40 into my 240D and it leaked like crazy. Maybe a quart in 100 miles. I tried 5w40 (this was a couple years ago when the 5w40 was easy to find) and it leaked maybe a quart in 300 miles. 15w50 leaked a quart in maybe 350 miles, same with conventional 15w40. (snip) and: What have you been running in it up to now? You're mostly right about how the oil works but it is very thin and you shouldn't be surprised about it leaking more. (snip) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1
Oh, I was going to write - before I got pissy - that I noticed that the 0W30 bottles were about the only bottles on the shelves that had seepage occurring from the caps of most of the bottles. Maybe that's an indicator right there. Brian On 12/29/06, Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You know, I'm tired of feeling guilty for daring to mention an oil-related topic. If you've been through this a dozen times, just delete it. Yes, I could look in the archives (if they'd work) but part of my enjoyment of the list is talking to you fellas and getting feedback. And by the way, thank you Werner for the good info. Brian On 12/29/06, Werner Fehlauer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: OK, I've been trying to stay out of another (repeating) oil thread, but here goes: The most wear that an engine experiences is during a cold start. Oil pressure isn't up, oil has drained down into the sump, and clearances are at their greatest. So it makes sense to use an oil (such as a good synthetic) that clings best to metal surfaces, and that will quickly flow through the passages when the pump starts. Heavy duty engines use pre-heating and pre-pressurization of the oil system before they start. Most car engines don't have that luxury, hence the need for some common sense like using a good oil, not loading the engine until it gets a bit of heat into it (Note: that does not mean idling for 5-10 minutes!). And gasoline fuel engines do not put as much loading on rod bearings as Diesels do, so a very thin oil works out OK. Also, the thinner the oil, the less work it takes to pump it through the engine, hence the claim for better mileage with 0W-40 rather than 10W-40 is theoretically true. And the car manufacturers have a vested interest in getting the highest CAFE ratings, and don't want the car to last forever, so they recommend the thinnest oil that will get them through the warranty period, and perhaps another year or two. But please remember that the manufacturer has a recommended oil viscosity for each engine, and I'm not aware that 0W- anything was ever recommended for 70s, 80s, and early 90s vintage M-B Diesels in our climates! That said, for a Diesel that you may want to last for 200, 300, or 400 thousand miles, it makes sense to use a C rated oil, such as the 15W-40 Delvac1. Remember, oil is less expensive than metal - meaning that an engine rebuild always costs more than you could possibly save by skimping on oil or using the wrong viscosity. Werner (sorry to keep this going) '90 300D '83 300SD '87 F150 - Original Message - From: Zoltan Finks [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 1:59 PM Subject: [MBZ] Trying out 0Wxx Mobil 1 Not that I haven't taken heed of all the posts on this, but to my brain at least, the following excerpts (below) seem to make sense to me, and here's why: If there were no difference (negative) in using 0W Mobil 1, why doesn't everyone run it, and thus receive the (claimed on the bottle) benefits of better fuel mileage, and better cold starting (if that's an issue where they live) than the other weights of Mobil 1? In other words, most people would be running 0W if there were no side effects. Brian 83 240D 84 Saab 900 (received the 0W30 Mobil 1 last night) Curt wrote: I'd put 0w40 into my 240D and it leaked like crazy. Maybe a quart in 100 miles. I tried 5w40 (this was a couple years ago when the 5w40 was easy to find) and it leaked maybe a quart in 300 miles. 15w50 leaked a quart in maybe 350 miles, same with conventional 15w40. (snip) and: What have you been running in it up to now? You're mostly right about how the oil works but it is very thin and you shouldn't be surprised about it leaking more. (snip) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
