Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-02 Thread LT Don
AS 240D with a new filter isn't much better! I know, I just got back from a
60 mile round trip in mine.

I think it is just about time for an S-Class diesel.

On 1/1/06, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A 240D with a bad filter is a DRAG.

   -Curt






--
1977 240D
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle

http://www.airamericaradio.com/listen


Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-02 Thread Hendrik Riessen

You're on your own.

Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery



this one does have an o2 sensor.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:

Hopefully yes but don't get too excited, if you where talking diesel 
engine

I would agree but seeing as this is not..
Anyway keep us up to date.
Also I think round about 1985 the change over to KE started, the KE 
systems
have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust system and a pile more electrical 
crap.


Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery




The linkage all moves fine.  The filter has not been changed so its
probably about 90% sure to be the problem.  Thats the first step for
sure.  Its CIS/K I think, but not sure.  And yes, the sensor plate feels
just like its supposed to.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:


Well...it may be the filter. If it is old, change it. 
However



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Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

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Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-02 Thread Hendrik Riessen

Couple of links to help you determine what you have created
http://www.boschautoparts.co.uk/pcPetr11.asp?c=2d=1
http://covintechnical.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/tech_2.htm
http://www.aicautosite.com/garage/encyclop/ency07c.asp

Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Hendrik Riessen [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 11:50 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery



You're on your own.

Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 10:16 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery



this one does have an o2 sensor.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:


Hopefully yes but don't get too excited, if you where talking diesel
engine
I would agree but seeing as this is not..
Anyway keep us up to date.
Also I think round about 1985 the change over to KE started, the KE
systems
have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust system and a pile more electrical
crap.

Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery




The linkage all moves fine.  The filter has not been changed so its
probably about 90% sure to be the problem.  Thats the first step for
sure.  Its CIS/K I think, but not sure.  And yes, the sensor plate feels
just like its supposed to.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:



Well...it may be the filter. If it is old, change it.
However



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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

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Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-02 Thread Jim Cathey
Yes a reduction in power but without load the motor will still go to 
the

redline, that's about 1500rpm in a 240D isn't it?


5100 is closer.

-- Jim




Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-02 Thread Curt Raymond
Yeah well, just be glad the filter isn't plugged, it can get ALOT worse, and 
you could be really late and trying to hurry, and traffic could be very heavy 
and it could be real hot and...
   
  -Curt
   
  Date: Mon, 2 Jan 2006 01:00:15 +
From: LT Don [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery
To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID:
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

AS 240D with a new filter isn't much better! I know, I just got back 
from a
60 mile round trip in mine.

I think it is just about time for an S-Class diesel.

On 1/1/06, Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 A 240D with a bad filter is a DRAG.

   -Curt






--
1977 240D
1972 Honda CB-500K motorcycle


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Perhaps those Finnish cars are not being licensed and driven on the
streets - just old runwyas, race tracks, etc.

On 1/2/06, Hans Neureiter [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Think about this. In Germany there are no Junkyards. Older cars that do n=
ot
 pass the inspection (TUeV), which includes body, suspension, oil
 leaks and emissions, and can not repaired at reasonable cost are being
 scrapped, I mean shredded, and the owner pays a fee.

 On 1/2/06, V Layton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
  Europe tends to have higher regs and more taxes for older cars, which
  makes
  me glad to be a car enthusiast guy here.  Cool video, Finns having fun
  definately.  I think it's neat there is an apparent USA car enthusiasm
  group, odd to realize Chevys and such are exoctic to them, but very
  cool.
 
  Did I really see that W201 diesel beat that Vette?  THAT'S somethin'!
 
  A W123 in motion is always a sweet sight to me, but seeing one kick out=
 on
  dry pavement with that kind of power is admittedly extra delicious!

--
OK Don, KD5NRO
Norman, OK
'90 300D, '87 300SDL,  '81 240D,  '78 450SLC
The FSM created the Diesel Benz
http://www.venganza.org/



Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Trampas
Good to know that you have it figured out!

Trampas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:04 PM
To: Mercedes mailing list; Banned List
Subject: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

Well I went over to my dads where I stashed the car and loaded it up on 
the trailer.  Decided to use the 6.2 suburban instead of the usual 1 ton 
6.5 turbodiesel to haul it back home.  Boy is there a difference in 
towing.  With the 6.5 turbo, I dont even know there is a fully loaded 
trailer hooked on the back.  With the 6.2, I know its there.  Still tows 
fine though.  Anyways, back to the 380.  Barely had enough power to load 
on the trailer.  Once home, I took the air cleaner off and fired her up. 
  Of course wouldnt rev up past about 2k in neutral.  Brought out the 
gas can and just putting the nozzle over the throttle body cause it to 
be able to rev up. just from the fumes.  Poured a couple of drops down 
it and she revved all the way up.  The conclusion is the filter has to 
be plugged up.  I guess running it so lean trying to keep up speed was 
enough to superheat the exhaust. Doesnt appear anything is wrong with 
the exhaust that I can tell.
-- 
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
  89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
  84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
  76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

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Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

at least I hope I do, that sure looks like conclusive evidence to me.

Trampas wrote:


Good to know that you have it figured out!

Trampas



--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Hendrik Riessen
Well...it may be the filter. If it is old, change it. However 
there are other possibilities such as blocked screen in the fuel tank (not 
likely due to the suddenness of the problem). Weak fuel pump (not likely due 
to the suddenness of the problem). From there things get more tricky (more 
likely).

Is it the CIS or CIS/E (K or KE) jetronic injection system?
What troubles me is the suddenness of the problem (am I repeating myself?), 
if it was filter related I would expect a gradual loss of performance unless 
some really filthy fuel went into the system. The oilers will agree that 
blocked filters come on slowly and not just one day I was zipping along and 
the next day it was no go.
Agreed that if the engine revs with external fuel delivery then ignition and 
air supply problems can be ruled out, so back to the fuel system.
Have you checked the throttle linkages to ensure they can move their full 
amount of travel (the throttle flap should move about 80 degrees)?
Have you checked the sensor plate for ease of movement? When pushed down 
there should be slight resistance all the way down and then should snap 
shut. You can also push down the sensor plate with the motor idling, it 
should stall.
The only real way of diagnosing the system is with fuel pressure gauges, 
which I don't have.
Anyway you can try changing fuel filters but I have a feeling there might be 
bigger probs.

This is a nice overview of the system
http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm
some more things that could be wrong
http://www.forparts.com/techbosKjectronic.htm

Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery



Good to know that you have it figured out!

Trampas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:04 PM
To: Mercedes mailing list; Banned List
Subject: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

Well I went over to my dads where I stashed the car and loaded it up on
the trailer.  Decided to use the 6.2 suburban instead of the usual 1 ton
6.5 turbodiesel to haul it back home.  Boy is there a difference in
towing.  With the 6.5 turbo, I dont even know there is a fully loaded
trailer hooked on the back.  With the 6.2, I know its there.  Still tows
fine though.  Anyways, back to the 380.  Barely had enough power to load
on the trailer.  Once home, I took the air cleaner off and fired her up.
 Of course wouldnt rev up past about 2k in neutral.  Brought out the
gas can and just putting the nozzle over the throttle body cause it to
be able to rev up. just from the fumes.  Poured a couple of drops down
it and she revved all the way up.  The conclusion is the filter has to
be plugged up.  I guess running it so lean trying to keep up speed was
enough to superheat the exhaust. Doesnt appear anything is wrong with
the exhaust that I can tell.
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

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Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin
The linkage all moves fine.  The filter has not been changed so its 
probably about 90% sure to be the problem.  Thats the first step for 
sure.  Its CIS/K I think, but not sure.  And yes, the sensor plate feels 
just like its supposed to.


Hendrik Riessen wrote:

Well...it may be the filter. If it is old, change it. However 
there are other possibilities such as blocked screen in the fuel tank (not 
likely due to the suddenness of the problem). Weak fuel pump (not likely due 
to the suddenness of the problem). From there things get more tricky (more 
likely).

Is it the CIS or CIS/E (K or KE) jetronic injection system?
What troubles me is the suddenness of the problem (am I repeating myself?), 
if it was filter related I would expect a gradual loss of performance unless 
some really filthy fuel went into the system. The oilers will agree that 
blocked filters come on slowly and not just one day I was zipping along and 
the next day it was no go.
Agreed that if the engine revs with external fuel delivery then ignition and 
air supply problems can be ruled out, so back to the fuel system.
Have you checked the throttle linkages to ensure they can move their full 
amount of travel (the throttle flap should move about 80 degrees)?
Have you checked the sensor plate for ease of movement? When pushed down 
there should be slight resistance all the way down and then should snap 
shut. You can also push down the sensor plate with the motor idling, it 
should stall.
The only real way of diagnosing the system is with fuel pressure gauges, 
which I don't have.
Anyway you can try changing fuel filters but I have a feeling there might be 
bigger probs.

This is a nice overview of the system
http://www.auto-solve.com/mech_inj.htm
some more things that could be wrong
http://www.forparts.com/techbosKjectronic.htm

Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Trampas [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: 'Mercedes Discussion List' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery




Good to know that you have it figured out!

Trampas

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Kaleb C. Striplin
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 2:04 PM
To: Mercedes mailing list; Banned List
Subject: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

Well I went over to my dads where I stashed the car and loaded it up on
the trailer.  Decided to use the 6.2 suburban instead of the usual 1 ton
6.5 turbodiesel to haul it back home.  Boy is there a difference in
towing.  With the 6.5 turbo, I dont even know there is a fully loaded
trailer hooked on the back.  With the 6.2, I know its there.  Still tows
fine though.  Anyways, back to the 380.  Barely had enough power to load
on the trailer.  Once home, I took the air cleaner off and fired her up.
Of course wouldnt rev up past about 2k in neutral.  Brought out the
gas can and just putting the nozzle over the throttle body cause it to
be able to rev up. just from the fumes.  Poured a couple of drops down
it and she revved all the way up.  The conclusion is the filter has to
be plugged up.  I guess running it so lean trying to keep up speed was
enough to superheat the exhaust. Doesnt appear anything is wrong with
the exhaust that I can tell.
--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net

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For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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--
Kaleb C. Striplin/Claremore, OK
 89 560SEL, 87 300SDL, 85 380SE, 85 300D,
 84 250 LWB, 83 300TD, 81 300TD, 81 240D, 81 240D,
 76 450SEL, 76 240D, 76 300D, 74 240D, 69 250
http://www.striplin.net



Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Curt Raymond
The oilers will agree that blocked filters come on slowly and not just one day 
I was zipping along and the next day it was no go.

  Actually one day about 2 years into owning my 240D I noticed a SEVERE 
reduction in power that changing the filters fixed right away.
  I'd let the tank get much lower than ever before a day or two before and I 
guess it just took a day to really pack all the crud into the filter. A 240D 
with a bad filter is a DRAG.
   
  -Curt


-
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year. 
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 Warpage? You did put a surface plate on it while it was apart,
 didn't you?

I did nothing.  The head went to the shop and came back 'done'.
The block was sleeved by them, and honed, but that was it.  The
forest of studs poking out of the block were not removed, so
obviously no flatness test was done.

-- Jim




Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Hendrik Riessen
Yes a reduction in power but without load the motor will still go to the 
redline, that's about 1500rpm in a 240D isn't it?


Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Curt Raymond [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:46 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery


The oilers will agree that blocked filters come on slowly and not just 
one day I was zipping along and the next day it was no go.


 Actually one day about 2 years into owning my 240D I noticed a SEVERE 
reduction in power that changing the filters fixed right away.
 I'd let the tank get much lower than ever before a day or two before and 
I guess it just took a day to really pack all the crud into the filter. A 
240D with a bad filter is a DRAG.


 -Curt


-
Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.
___
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Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Hendrik Riessen
Hopefully yes but don't get too excited, if you where talking diesel engine 
I would agree but seeing as this is not..

Anyway keep us up to date.
Also I think round about 1985 the change over to KE started, the KE systems 
have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust system and a pile more electrical crap.


Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery



The linkage all moves fine.  The filter has not been changed so its
probably about 90% sure to be the problem.  Thats the first step for
sure.  Its CIS/K I think, but not sure.  And yes, the sensor plate feels
just like its supposed to.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:


Well...it may be the filter. If it is old, change it. However




Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery

2006-01-01 Thread Kaleb C. Striplin

this one does have an o2 sensor.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:

Hopefully yes but don't get too excited, if you where talking diesel engine 
I would agree but seeing as this is not..

Anyway keep us up to date.
Also I think round about 1985 the change over to KE started, the KE systems 
have an oxygen sensor in the exhaust system and a pile more electrical crap.


Hendrik

- Original Message - 
From: Kaleb C. Striplin [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Mercedes Discussion List [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 9:39 AM
Subject: Re: [MBZ] the warp drive mystery




The linkage all moves fine.  The filter has not been changed so its
probably about 90% sure to be the problem.  Thats the first step for
sure.  Its CIS/K I think, but not sure.  And yes, the sensor plate feels
just like its supposed to.

Hendrik Riessen wrote:



Well...it may be the filter. If it is old, change it. However



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