October 1, 2020 8:36 PM, "Alyssa Rosenzweig"
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust programming
> language in Mesa. Rust bills itself a safe system programming language
> with comparable performance to C [0], which is a naturally fit for
> graphics
Hi,
On Wed, 2020-10-14 at 15:40 -0700, Eric Anholt wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:26 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> wrote:
> > I didn't think to enforce a lint during CI. Part of me wonders if
> > we
> > should be doing that for C too, but we can shave that yak sometime
> > else.
>
> I don't think
On Wed, Oct 14, 2020 at 3:26 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
wrote:
>
> > Since the majority opinion seemed to be "if someone wanted to use it
> > in a leaf node without making everyone use it, that's fine", I've
> > started trying to put together the CI bits necessary to enable it.
> > Currently fighting
> Since the majority opinion seemed to be "if someone wanted to use it
> in a leaf node without making everyone use it, that's fine", I've
> started trying to put together the CI bits necessary to enable it.
> Currently fighting with meson cross files a bit, but the linting works
> and the amd64
> > I think it's just going to get more messy and complicated for people who
> > don't want to learn or use another language. Mesa already requires people
> > to know C, Python, and now newly Gitlab CI scripts just to get stuff done
> > and merged. Another language would only exacerbate the
> I have found that other tools like RAII/drop, the closely related smart
> pointer types, and safe containers (vectors, strings etc.) even without
> the borrow checker niceties, to be relatively more useful in preventing
> memory errors. However, these are features that modern C++ also offers,
>
> Yep. Before we can land a single bit of code, we need to do a bunch of
> annoying things like build-system integration, FFI bridging, agreeing
> on conventions and style, etc etc. Trying to do that whilst also
> replacing the GLSL compiler or vtn is way too much; it's 100% doomed
> to failure,
> drive-by comment: for something like a gl driver that a lot of other
> things depend on, making it harder for us to depend on other external
> things is actually a good thing
I agree with this as well. The Rust standard library is richer than C's,
if we can get by fine with C + util/, that
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020, 23:52 Thomas Zimmermann wrote:
> Hi
>
> On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 13:01:58 -0700 Eric Anholt wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 12:08 AM Thomas Zimmermann
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi
> > >
> > > On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:04:43 -0700 "Dylan Baker"
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > I have
Hi
On Tue, 13 Oct 2020 13:01:58 -0700 Eric Anholt wrote:
> On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 12:08 AM Thomas Zimmermann
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi
> >
> > On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:04:43 -0700 "Dylan Baker"
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I have serious concerns about cargo and crate usage. Cargo is basically
> > > npm for
On Tue, Oct 13, 2020 at 12:08 AM Thomas Zimmermann wrote:
>
> Hi
>
> On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:04:43 -0700 "Dylan Baker" wrote:
>
> > I have serious concerns about cargo and crate usage. Cargo is basically npm
> > for rust, and shares all of the bad design decisions of npm, including
> > linking
Hi
On Fri, 02 Oct 2020 08:04:43 -0700 "Dylan Baker" wrote:
> I have serious concerns about cargo and crate usage. Cargo is basically npm
> for rust, and shares all of the bad design decisions of npm, including
> linking multiple versions of the same library together and ballooning
>
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust programming
> language in Mesa. Rust bills itself a safe system programming language
> with comparable performance to C [0], which is a naturally fit for
> graphics
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020 at 2:00 PM Marek Olšák wrote:
> I think it's just going to get more messy and complicated for people who
> don't want to learn or use another language. Mesa already requires people to
> know C, Python, and now newly Gitlab CI scripts just to get stuff done and
> merged.
On 2020-10-04 11:00 p.m., Marek Olšák wrote:
I think it's just going to get more messy and complicated for people who
don't want to learn or use another language. Mesa already requires
people to know C, Python, and now newly Gitlab CI scripts just to get
stuff done and merged.
I've been a
On Sun, Oct 04, 2020 at 08:24:08PM +0200, Alexander Schlichte wrote:
> >> For one, I'm porting ALT Linux onto e2k platform
> >> (there's only an early non-optimizing version of
> >> Rust port there by now), and we're maintaining repos
> >> for aarch64, armv7hf, ppc64el, mipsel, and riscv64 either
2. Rust's enums look awesome but are only mostly awesome:
a. Pattern matching on them can lead to some pretty deep
indentation which is a bit annoying.
b. There's no good way to have multiple cases handled by the same
code like you can with a C switch; you have to either repeat it or
The elbrus C/C++ compiler is largely gcc compatible asks supported in meson, so
that really shouldn't be a problem.
Dylan
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, at 11:24, Alexander Schlichte wrote:
> On 04.10.20 17:19, Alyssa Rosenzweig wrote:
> > Cc'd.
> >
> > On Sun, Oct 04, 2020 at 03:17:28PM +0300, Michael
I think it's just going to get more messy and complicated for people who
don't want to learn or use another language. Mesa already requires people
to know C, Python, and now newly Gitlab CI scripts just to get stuff done
and merged. Another language would only exacerbate the issue and steepen
the
On 04.10.20 17:19, Alyssa Rosenzweig wrote:
Cc'd.
On Sun, Oct 04, 2020 at 03:17:28PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote:
For one, I'm porting ALT Linux onto e2k platform
(there's only an early non-optimizing version of
Rust port there by now), and we're maintaining repos
for aarch64, armv7hf,
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 10:13 Jacob Lifshay wrote:
> On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 08:19 Alyssa Rosenzweig <
> alyssa.rosenzw...@collabora.com> wrote:
>
>> Cc'd.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 04, 2020 at 03:17:28PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote:
>> > Hello,
>> > regarding this proposal:
>> >
On Sun, Oct 4, 2020, 08:19 Alyssa Rosenzweig <
alyssa.rosenzw...@collabora.com> wrote:
> Cc'd.
>
> On Sun, Oct 04, 2020 at 03:17:28PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote:
> > Hello,
> > regarding this proposal:
> > http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2020-October/224639.html
> >
> >
Cc'd.
On Sun, Oct 04, 2020 at 03:17:28PM +0300, Michael Shigorin wrote:
> Hello,
> regarding this proposal:
> http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/mesa-dev/2020-October/224639.html
>
> Alyssa, Rust is not "naturally fit for graphics driver
> development" since it's not as universally
On Sun, 2020-10-04 at 00:48 +0300, Konstantin Kharlamov wrote: The standard
> > library is rather minimal "because just pull in 1000 crates". The distro
> > people can correct me if I'm wrong, but when librsvg went to rust it was a
> > nightmare, several distros went a long time without updates
On Fri, 2020-10-02 at 08:04 -0700, Dylan Baker wrote:
> And if you're not going to use cargo, is rust really a win?
Sure. When people talk about Rust in context of advantages against other
languages, I don't remember Cargo ever being mentioned. People love it for other
reasons.
> The standard
On Sat, 2020-10-03 at 00:51 +0200, timur.kris...@gmail.com wrote:
> The Rust syntax is slightly annoying. They departed from C/C++ enough
> to make Rust look different, but then they got lazy and for some reason
> they chose to keep the most annoying parts from C/C++ like curly braces
> and
On 2020-10-02 at 17:53 Jason Ekstrand wrote:
>b. Pulling two items out of a list and looking at them is painful.
> Unfortunately, this is a surprisingly common operation in compiler
> passes. The usual way to get around it is to structure your code such
> that you first look up all the
On Fri, 2020-10-02 at 18:21 -0500, Jason Ekstrand wrote:
> > The good thing about C++ is that you can pick a subset of features
> > that
> > you like, and stick to them. Then you'll never have to deal with
> > other
> > the stuff if you don't want to. There exists a subset of the
> > language
> >
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 5:51 PM wrote:
>
> On Fri, 2020-10-02 at 12:53 -0500, Jason Ekstrand wrote:
> > On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:34 AM Eric Anholt wrote:
> > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> > > wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > >
> > > > Recently I've been thinking about the
On Fri, 2020-10-02 at 12:53 -0500, Jason Ekstrand wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:34 AM Eric Anholt wrote:
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> > wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust
> > > programming
> > > language
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020, 10:53 Jason Ekstrand wrote:
>
> 2. Rust's enums look awesome but are only mostly awesome:
> a. Pattern matching on them can lead to some pretty deep
> indentation which is a bit annoying.
> b. There's no good way to have multiple cases handled by the same
> code
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 11:34 AM Eric Anholt wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi all,
> >
> > Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust programming
> > language in Mesa. Rust bills itself a safe system programming language
> > with
On 02.10.20 08:14, Dave Airlie wrote:
My feeling is the pieces that would benefit the most are the things
touch the real world, GLSL compiler, SPIR-V handling, maybe some of
the GL API space, but I also feel these are the messiest things to
move to rust. I'm not sure you'd get much benefit from
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:05 AM Dylan Baker wrote:
>
> I have serious concerns about cargo and crate usage. Cargo is basically npm
> for rust, and shares all of the bad design decisions of npm, including
> linking multiple versions of the same library together and ballooning
> dependency lists
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust programming
> language in Mesa. Rust bills itself a safe system programming language
> with comparable performance to C [0], which is a naturally fit for
> graphics
On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:35 PM Dylan Baker wrote:
>
> Add a meson developer the rust community has been incredibly hard to work with
> and basically hostile to every request we've made "cargo is hour you build
> rust",
> is essentially the answer we've gotten from them at every turn.
>
> On the
I have serious concerns about cargo and crate usage. Cargo is basically npm for
rust, and shares all of the bad design decisions of npm, including linking
multiple versions of the same library together and ballooning dependency lists
that are fetched intrigued from the internet. This is both a
On Fri, Oct 02, 2020 at 04:14:17PM +1000, Dave Airlie wrote:
> On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 15:01, Jason Ekstrand wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:56 PM Rob Clark wrote:
> > >
> > > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Implications for the build system
fransisco, alyssa et al:
you may be interested to know that the Libre-SOC Kazan Vulkan driver,
funded by NLnet, is written in rust.
https://salsa.debian.org/Kazan-team/kazan
the insights and analysis that you are going through is - was - pretty
much exactly why we chose it (or, more accurately:
Hi,
On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 08:31, Kristian Kristensen wrote:
> On Fri, Oct 2, 2020 at 8:14 AM Dave Airlie wrote:
>> My feeling is the pieces that would benefit the most are the things
>> touch the real world, GLSL compiler, SPIR-V handling, maybe some of
>> the GL API space, but I also feel
On Fri, 2 Oct 2020 at 15:01, Jason Ekstrand wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:56 PM Rob Clark wrote:
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Implications for the build system vary. Rust prefers to be built by its
> > > own package manager, Cargo, which
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 10:56 PM Rob Clark wrote:
>
> On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
> wrote:
> >
> > Implications for the build system vary. Rust prefers to be built by its
> > own package manager, Cargo, which is tricky to integrate with other
> > build systems. Actually,
On Thu, Oct 1, 2020 at 6:36 PM Alyssa Rosenzweig
wrote:
>
> Implications for the build system vary. Rust prefers to be built by its
> own package manager, Cargo, which is tricky to integrate with other
> build systems. Actually, Meson has native support for Rust, invoking the
> compiler directly
Alyssa Rosenzweig writes:
> Hi all,
>
> Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust programming
> language in Mesa. Rust bills itself a safe system programming language
> with comparable performance to C [0], which is a naturally fit for
> graphics driver development.
>
> Mesa
Hi all,
Recently I've been thinking about the potential for the Rust programming
language in Mesa. Rust bills itself a safe system programming language
with comparable performance to C [0], which is a naturally fit for
graphics driver development.
Mesa today is written primarily in C, a
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