Test
CJ
IMCA# 3432
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.cjsmeteorites.com
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Hi,
Just looked thru the BCC site for the first time - what an odd rant
Sort of a mixture of scientific mumbo jumbo mixed with what looks to me like
paranoic ravings. I guess we've all heard those raving derelicts in the
street muttering and shouting into thin air - well, that's just what it
Mr. Adam Hupe thinks all his messages are extra special. That's a problem. But
why enter the frey at all? I see the cats on a clothsline analogy in a lot of
ways.
Bill
-- Original message --
From: drtanuki [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dear Bill,
This is more
http://www.abqjournal.com/north/262036north_news11-21-04.htm?tease
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Hello Mark (and List),
Point well taken. Hopefully we all have learned a
lesson about putting into print assumed provisional
numbers before they are assigned by Dr. Rhian Jones.
But here are some safe assumptions that I would like
the List to know about.
You can safely assume that I would
Dear List and Dave in Constant Entropy,
Thanks for the laugh! I also just read his wind
yesterday. Before reading all that is posted on the
web via websearch I thought that this was some sort of
joke. Do a websearch and you will find micromike $50
autographs and $100 spoons from the famous
While I truly believe this practice is ultimately costly to the collector,
truer words have never been spoken. Thanks Mike:
Virtually every dealer including myself has been or is guilty of
this, we are in the process of correcting the situation and to start people
MUST immediately comply or this
Bill,
Why are you posting private messages to the list?
Charlie
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Lets see,MIKE vs. ADAM,BILL vs.ADAM,,BILL vs.MIKE,BOB vs.ADAM.Where will
it all end.I know I am no saint, I know I have done some things that
people do not like,but all these things going on are just unbelievable.I
have 202 meteorites in my collection,all but 2 are classified.They have
all
My grandmother's 3rd cousin's great great grandson is Jessie James of
Monster Garage...think I could get a new scoot to ride?
- Original Message -
From: David Weir [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: J. Devon [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 9:29 AM
Subject: Re:
Paper: Lima News
City: Lima, Ohio
Date: Wednesday, April 16, 1969
Page: 6
Space Scientists Launch Rock Hunt
By ROBERT D. DePIANTE
World Book Science Service
Like a Help Wanted ad, the notice in the lobby of the Lunar Receiving
Laboratory at the Manned Spacecraft Center in Houston reads:
HELP
Paper: Holland Evening Sentinel
City: Holland, Michigan
Date: Thursday, July 17, 1969
Page: 15
Apollo May Unlock Space Mysteries
SPACE CENTER, Houston (UPI) - Apollo 11 is carrying what scientists
think may be the keys that will unlock the mysteries of the solar system.
The spaceships'
Paper: The Daily Tribune
City: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin
Date: Monday, July 28, 1969
Page: 14
Begin moon rock testing at Houston
SPACE CENTER, Houston (AP) - A precious bit of soil dug from beneath
the moon's surface begins a long series of tests today to determine whether
it contains any
Paper: News Journal
City: Mansfield, Ohio
Date: Monday, October 12, 1969
Page: 2-D
NASA Scientists, Engineers Argue Goals
(EDITOR'S NOTE - Team effort has been the hallmark of America's
successful space program. But, there is a little-publicized, underlying
conflict between the scientists
Mr. Adam Hupe is an honored, responsible and respected member of the
meteorite community. A credential that will be on your wish list forever.
CharlyV
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004
Just to add a note...
There is a fundamental scientific problem of classifying meteorites.
Try sending two pieces of the same meteorite to different labs. Chances
are you will get different results.
For instance, I have L5's that came back as L4's and L6's.
Regolith this and Primitive that.
I
Matt,
Cooperation versus Haggling? Seems like a no brainer. It does seem like a
real problem vexing intellegent, dedicated inividuals.
Collaboration and compromise began a country that I am fortunate to live
in.
Can the Meteorite Community do the real work of tighting up the standards
upon
Hi Matt and list. I'm not an expert on the topic, but I think that part
of the problem may also be that meteorites such as those belonging to
the HED group are quite heterogeneous. If one sample contains a slightly
higher diogenite component it may come back as a howardite while a
sample with
But in USA does not exist an Institute where to denounce the persons that
cheat the people? Here in Italy it exists and I ensure yourselves that they
work a lot well. Here in Italy a person type Mr.BCC not have long live..
Matteo
From: Dave Harris [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: metlist [EMAIL
I understand this completely, but what I am getting at is cooperation
and sharing of data seems to happen very little or is non-existant. The
researchers I have worked with in the past also made visual pairings
(along with thin section work) if there were a large number of pieces.
They also took
Hi Jerry and Matt and list
I believe you both hit on some good concepts. It would, because of value to
research, behove a buyer or finder of a special and potentially expensive
meteorite, to have it classified, regardless of costs so that a better
picture of the solar system and interest in
Maybe I'm missing something. Wouldn't this whole dispute go away if
Bob Evans simply changed his description to read:
Guaranteed Martian Meteorite, likely paired to NWA 1110 and 1068?
Mike Fowler
Chicago
--
Adam
You
There are several reasons for this result. Among these are:
1) Not all scientists are equally skilled at classifying meteorites.
2) Not all samples are representative of the whole. It used to be that a
lab would have the entire mass to examine and could see the entire
structure. With
Also I think the Total Known Weight should really be observerved for
witnessed falls.
Yes I agree, I have made this point before, with a classified NWA the weight
is fixed to the piece/s classified so it's the total weight not the total
known weight.
Ken O'Neill
-Original Message-
Hello Jeff and thanks for your email. I think a repository of high
quality photos of type specimens would be extremely useful for the
entire meteorite community.
Cheers
-John
Jeff Grossman wrote:
There are several reasons for this result. Among these are:
1) Not all scientists are equally
Hi Jeff, et al,
Regarding a repository of photos, I too think it would be extraordinarily
useful.
To this end, I noticed that Marvin Kilgore has a book in press to partially
satisfy this need.
It would be nice to have some professional reviews of it.
Jeff, Alan, are you game?
Marvin had a galley
:-)
I think you will be getting tired of hearing this, but I invested a lot
of time to create a free repository for meteorite photos at
http://www.meteoritegallery.com
I know this doesn't fit scientific standards, but hey, it's a beginning
and could be very useful at least for collectors wanting
good quality and color of thin sections would be good as well. Heres a link
to one such example of plane and polarized light thinsection.
http://gmr.minsocam.org/Examples/XPolars.html
Mark
- Original Message -
From: John Birdsell [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Jeff Grossman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Bernhard,
Tired of hearing this?
Not at all!
I need constant reminding...
And I'm sure there are new subscribers all the time as well as old
subscribers whose interests change...
Thanks,
Nick
At 10:55 AM 11/21/2004, Bernhard Rems wrote:
:-)
I think you will be getting tired of hearing this, but
Berhard:
This is a great resource, but the archive we need should be to
scientific standards.
For example each photo should at least have a scale, name, principal
scientist who classified it (with email), size of the piece classified,
and links to any chemistry that was done along with thin
At the request of some collectors and the sugestion of Ted Bunch
I am happy to say we have a NEW H7 from Morocco NWA 2353
For thoes who would like a slice of this new find the price is $200 per gram
and I will cut to your needs .
Anyone interested may contact me by email direct.
A picture of
Good Job Ken!
An H7 (primitive achondrite), what a very rare find! Considering the rarity
of this specimen $200.00 a gram seems very reasonable. Any chance of a
trade/part trade?
Kind Regards,
Adam Hupe
The Hupe Collection
Team LunarRock
IMCA 2185
[EMAIL
I'd like to take a minute to thank Dr. Grossman, the only SCIENTIST to
comment on this issue.
If you sit down and read it, it speaks volumes. A list of five reasons why
classifications/pairings can differ and why In most cases the error
doesn't matter. Researchers all know that
Rob,
what I will write isn't from a scientific point of view. I am no
scientist. I am a collector. So what I will write is from a collector's
point of view.
With no meteorite I have ever bought on ebay or elsewhere, I got proof
that what was sold to me was actually what it was advertised to be.
This message is only being sent to correct a previous
typographical error. The purpose of all this is to
help in the retrieval of this thread whenever a Search
Engine is queried for Willcox Playa.
Otherwise, please disregard this message.
I apologize for this inconvenience,
Bob Verish
Hi all,
I have gone through my collection and have come up with 61 different meteorites
to sell. There is everything from common Ls and Hs to all types of achondrites
to SNCs. There are a few that I don't ever remember seeing for sale. There
are too many to list here, but if you want a Word
Well, easy enough, I don't have any NWA 1110, never did so that answers
that.
You hit on trust. Trust is the way every meteorite in history has been sold
until the dawn of NWA naming rules. Once again, every L'Aigle, every Gao,
every Holbrook and Canyon Diablo.
Burkina Faso has a new fall
Dear List,
As someone who has done chemical and petrological
research, there are several problems involved. My
research has only dealt with cherts and glasses. Both
cherts and glasses are generally considered to be
homogeneous in geology. In fact, they are and they
are not.
In chemically
Rob,
What are you talking about. A type specimen for NWA 1110 was submitted to
and studied by the University of Washington. Thin sections were cut, pieces
were analyzed with a microprobe, specimens were sent out for Isotope work
and dating. NWA 1110 is a well studied set of stones. Every
Looked at or microprobed?
Bernhard asked, I answered, please see Dr. Grossman's evaluation of looked
at
Rob Wesel
--
We are the music makers...
and we are the dreamers of the dreams.
Willy Wonka, 1971
- Original Message -
From: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Rob Wesel
Bob,
If you want to sell your rocks as nwa 1110 - why not just include a notice
in your ebay description specifically and unequivically stating that the
material you are offering was not part of the nwa 1110 find that was
recoverd - however your source for the material has sold it to you as nwa
Microprobed, read the abstract:
http://www2.jpl.nasa.gov/snc/nwa1110.html
How else can you get ratios to support a Martian origin?
Adam
- Original Message -
From: Rob Wesel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Adam Hupe [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 21, 2004 5:00
Well then I owe you an apology, if EVERY piece was microprobed then this
falls above and beyond the NomCom rules and at immense expense to you.
Thank you for clearing that matter up, I must have misunderstood the part
where you stated Every fragment was cleaned and then looked at by Dr.
AdamI think you meant your pieces were looked at by Dr. Irving as
this is what you have told the list repeatedly. You could not possibly
have had every piece microprobed as all the pieces we have seen sold by
you on ebay did not even have a window polished into them. Further, no
one in
Why is there an argument in regards to material that has been NomCom
approved? The problem is pseudo-dealers thinking they know more than
scientists. If we start questioning scientist, who have been very patient
thus far with the collecting community, where will this leave us?
Think about it,
Adam...I don't think there is any argument. We simple pointed out that
you mis-spoke when you told Rob that every one of your shergottite
pieces had been micro-probed. I the interests of the collectors I think
that honesty is the best policy, and I'm sure that you agree.
Cheers
-John Dawn
Stan wrote:
- why not just include a notice
in your ebay description specifically and unequivically stating that the
material you are offering was not part of the nwa 1110 find that was
recoverd - however your source for the material has sold it to you as nwa
1110 and your personal expertise in
Dear list and Adam,
What is a dealer and what is a pseudo-dealer? Is
it possible that the key is marketing skills? Trust is
the real answer to this ugly problem and this market
is rapidly losing trust due to the marketing skills
of some. Please keep science and scientist out of
marketing.
In a message dated 11/21/2004 6:53:39 PM Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Dear list and Adam,
What is a dealer and what is a pseudo-dealer? Is
it possible that the key is marketing skills? Trust is
the real answer to this ugly problem and this market
is rapidly losing trust
Dear List,
The next generation of collectors will probably be more demanding about
authenticity because the amount of material on the market will be much less.
If a dealer is not even willing to put his name on an ID card what does this
say? Meteorites are considered to be at the top of the heap
Forwarded with permission
Dear Rob,
Please post it. A and B were given only as examples.
You MAY post the message to the list. Please note that in the posting that
my statement A
and B do not apply to any specific party involved in
this catfight. In fact, as stated, this is only a
senerio of
I see that everybody has yet again found a way to make
asses of themselves in their efforts to push personal
agendas.
As far as who owns the numbers, I dont know about
europe but in The United States and canada legally
nobody owns them so stop this stupididy about
threatening lawsuits. Remember
NWA numbers do not belong to any person, they belong to a set of samples.
Nobody is trying to claim ownership of numbers just the material classified
under those numbers unless material is released to a third party. Think of
NWA numbers as serial numbers. Two meteorites may have came from the
Hello All,
I now have NWA 3125 back on sale on my website for a paltry $125.00.
It's a nice 40.25g Slice and it comes mounted in a Riker Mount and is
Carded.
I also have Gaines County Park, NWA 3118 and others!
Here's the link: http://cjsmeteorites.com/c-sales.html
Be Well,
CJ Lebel
IMCA#
Why wouldnt everyone have to include a notice in an ebay auction as you
stated above if they received specimens of any meteorite from the
strewnfield after the initial find?
Bob Evans
I guess you missed my point - and that is that if you advertise your wares
as 'THE SAME AS NWA xxx' then you
I'm sure many drool over the possibility of establishing that system. It's
worked so well in all other collectible markets to run profits up.
Bill
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yhea, but i wounder how long it will take to get the equivalent of accugrade
slabs in the meteorite market.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] slabbed meteorites
Date: Mon, 22 Nov 2004 07:13:43 +
I'm sure many drool over the possibility of establishing
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