Thomas Jefferson.
--
From:
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:42 PM
To:
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien contact predicted
"I'd rather believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that rocks
fall from the sky."<&l
f genetic material in
land animals .
have a great day
Steve
From: Steve Dunklee
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens! (off
topic)
To: "Göran Axelsson" , meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, "Sterling
K. Webb"
Date: Tuesday, September 1,
in. giving plenty of time for the vast diversity of genetic material in
land animals .
have a great day
Steve
> From: Steve Dunklee
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens! (off
> topic)
> To: "Göran Axelsson" ,
> meteorite-list@mete
How many licks does it take to get to the center of a tootsie pop?
LOL!
Isn't science fun?
Steve
--- On Mon, 8/31/09, Sterling K. Webb wrote:
> From: Sterling K. Webb
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens! (off
> topic)
> To
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009 20:58:59 -0400, you wrote:
>"A cautious mind will weigh well the opposition of the phenomenon to
>everything hitherto observed, the strength of the testimony by which it is
>supported and the errors and misconceptions to which even our senses are
>liable. It may be very diffic
>>Supposedly attributed to my ancestor, Thomas Jefferson<<
Well...I knew it was one of those Presidential old farts. :O)
geoZay
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ailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Becky and
Kirk
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:50 PM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien contact predicted
I think it was George Wallace.:-)
Kirk...
- Original Message -
From:
I think it was George Wallace.:-)
Kirk...
- Original Message -
From:
To:
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien contact predicted
"I'd rather believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that rocks
fall from the sky.&quo
>>"I'd rather believe that a Yankee professor would lie than that rocks
fall from the sky."<<
Wasn't it former president Andrew Jackson that said this?
GeoZay
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Hi Greg, all -
"Its my thoughts, as I said before that any intelligent life we encounter will
actually come to us.I do think that they would be far more advanced and most
likely be machine/robot that would actually visit us rather then the actual
beings that created them. If they have the abil
- Original Message -
From: "Phil Whitmer"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 7:26 AM
Subject: Alien Contact Predicted
G'Day GeoZay:
Yes, humans are living contradictions!
I've now taken the stance that life and intelligence are so improbable,
that I don't believe they exist at al
Göran Axelsson"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2009 11:11 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens!
(off topic)
This answer only deals with evolution and no meteorites. Just delete it
and you will not have missed any meteoritic information.
Steve Dunkle
This answer only deals with evolution and no meteorites. Just delete it
and you will not have missed any meteoritic information.
Steve Dunklee, I'm not jumping in the discussion about the existence of
aliens but you are making a few mistakes.
- A change every 10 minutes for one billion years
Citation needed! I think your numbers are off by a large factor again.
The last large extinction event I heard about (except the human
influence today) was 65 million years ago and a lot of multicellular
species survived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extinction_event
/Göran
Steve Dunklee wro
On a related, and lighter note, I hope that this link to the 8/30/2009
"Shoe" comic generates a smile or two on the list...
http://www.gocomics.com/shoe/2009/08/30/
Ed
- Original Message -
From:
To:
Sent: Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ali
>>I never claimed that life does not exist elsewhere, I'm just saying I
don't
believe it without any supporting evidence.<<
Doesn't this sentence contradict yourself?
GeoZay
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Meteorite
I think that this has been a interesting topic.
Its my thoughts, as I said before that any intelligent life we encounter will
actually come to us.
I do think that they would be far more advanced and most likely be
machine/robot that would actually visit us rather then the actual beings that
crea
Since the subject is still dragging on, I noticed that there are a few very
cheap copies of Life As We Do Not Know It available-- I would strongly
reccommend this book for anyone interested in current scientific ideas on life,
what it is, and where it might be found.
http://www.abebooks.com/servle
14
Date: Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:41:05 -0400
From: "Phil Whitmer"
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
To:
Message-ID: <1fedb40f4027b171cf36c27c8...@whitmerjbqtim1>
Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1";
reply-type=original
Eric,
I'm sorry you feel that way, I was just using Pro Lifer logic. I tried to
use humor instead of a personal attack. I'm starting to tire of being
called stupid and ignorant because I won't go along with the consensual
reality consensus around here which is: I believe in Little Green Men a
Darren,
Yes they were fools. See my reference to Democritus and Diogenes. These men
and the other Greek Classical Philosophers, weren't fools. (With the
possible exception of Aristotle.) They pretty much laid the groundwork for
everything we know today, and they did it in the 5th Century BC
Phil,
This is the last response on this subject I will make to you directly.
An intellectually appropriate response to your responses would be simply.
_...
Eric
Phil Whitmer wrote:
Eric,
No, there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, it's guarded by a
Bob:
You're right, I stand corrected. I collect old encylopedias, reading them
is fascinating. I think it was one from the 1860's where they were talking
about the current consensual theory of meteorites being thrown off the sun.
I was confusing that with some other historical meteorite rea
Eric,
No, there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, it's guarded by a
leprechaun riding a unicorn. And I don't need any evidence to prove it
either!!! Because as we all know, anything is possible if you just want to
believe it badly enough! ;)
Phil Whitmer
___
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:37:50 -0400, you wrote:
>were a lot dumber than today. All those dummies had to do was analyse a
>meteorite and they would know what the sun was made of.
Yes, cuse the lack of forsight of medieval, Renaissance and Victorian scientists
for not running meteorite samples th
Phil,
Back in the olden days (pre-18th century), meteorites from the sun was
not a leading theory. They were generally understood as being formed
by things like fire, earthly vapors and lightning. This is yet another
example of how ignorance was gradually transformed into understanding
by quizzical
Phil, List,
Your skepticism is only outweighed by your unbound and pure contempt for
anything other than your own absolute belief in nothing but what you see
before your eyes. The only problem is your eyes are slammed shut!
You're not a doubter or a skeptic. Doubters and skeptics believe in
Bob:
What do you mean when you say there was no evidence for the composition of
the stars? It was right there in the form of meteorites, but people then
were a lot dumber than today. All those dummies had to do was analyse a
meteorite and they would know what the sun was made of. This isn't
Phil,
Urey's experiment was fewer than 60 years ago and we've barely
scratched the surface on Mars. You seem willing to give up so easily.
Science succeeds through persistence and persistence takes time. How
many centuries has humankind wanted to fly? Hundreds, thousands of
years? It finally happen
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 17:59:47 -0400, you wrote:
I will not give you any more of my time other than to say that you are very,
very poorly educated in both biological sciences and rational thinking. You
think in simple, simplistic black and white terms (life is all or nothing) and
you are blind to t
Hi Darren,
I'm back to join the circle jerk! Please note: the following are just my
personal beliefs and I will completely recant it all upon being provided
credible evidence that I'm full of hooey.
So I'm a stupid Yahwehist? You're telling me to believe in alien beings
that live up in t
Darren, list,
Ubi defecerit ratio, ibi est fidei aedificatio.
(in short: 'where reason fails, there faith constructs'.)
Augustine, Sermon 247
On a different subject: what do I have to expect to pay per gram for a
200g-300g fully crusted Bassikounou H5 meteorite?
Cheers
Werner & Sandra Schro
Kirk wrote: "Try to prove differently!"
Probably once again time to post *this* :-)
Sky & Telescope, August 1984, p. 111: A Rotifer's Viewpoint
The members of the Little Puddlian Philosophical Society were engaged in a
debate about the possibility
of life outside of Little Puddle. The chief ad
:40 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
The Drake Equation is a prime example of mental masuturbation. It proves
absolutely nothing. How can an equation prove anything when none of the
variables are known with any certainity? As Rob points out, one zero
nullifies the whole sill
tecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:13:40 -0400, you wrote:
>nothing but conjecture based on beliefs. Your belief in alien life forms
>sounds religious to me, like you have faith in something you know ain't so.
I don't have "
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/
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On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 14:13:40 -0400, you wrote:
>nothing but conjecture based on beliefs. Your belief in alien life forms
>sounds religious to me, like you have faith in something you know ain't so.
I don't have "belief in alien life forms"-- I simply do not have a conviction
that the condition
Darren,
Of course I'm fixated on the origin of life, that's what this thread is
about isn't it? Nobody knows what life is or how it got started here on our
own home planet, so how could we possibly know it exists elsewhere? Just
because we want it to does not make it so. And I'm still waiti
related we must have been
dropped here from a meteorite lol :)
cheers Steve
--- On Fri, 8/28/09, Steve Dunklee wrote:
> From: Steve Dunklee
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted/we are the aliens!
> To: "Phil Whitmer" ,
> meteorite-list@meteoritecent
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 13:07:32 -0400, you wrote:
>My basic point is, humans are too stupid to figure out how life got started
>here on Earth.
Now that, is unmitigated BULLSHIT. The fact that a question has not been fully
answered yet does NOT necessiate that a question is unanserable. More is
Norbert,
Maybe you could just sum it up for me in a nutshell and explain the
principles and mechanics of non living matter suddenly becoming alive. I
admit, I'm way too dumb to figure it out. In a paragraph, explain
abiogenisis for me.
My basic point is, humans are too stupid to figure out
are and exceptional
> (something that was often believed up to the late 20th century, also for
> obvious reasons), and as short sighted as Newton's assertion that meteorites
> can't come from space. Today we do know better. Don't we?
>
> My two CM2's,
> N
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 12:49:07 -0400, you wrote:
>still could not figure out something so simple as how abiogenisis actually
>works. A simple basic question: how does non living matter become alive?
You seem really fixated on this point. Are you, I ask out of curiosity, working
from a religious
d a Drake factor 0, then ∞ * 0 =
1, so I guess that settles that, life is unique :-)
Best wishes
Doug
-Original Message-
From: Phil Whitmer
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, Aug 28, 2009 11:01 am
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
Kirk,
We all know
Hi Eric:
All those really smart people you mentioned and countless others could all
put their heads together in one huge conference call and between them, they
still could not figure out something so simple as how abiogenisis actually
works. A simple basic question: how does non living matter
oun...@meteoritecentral.com] Im Auftrag von Phil
Whitmer
Gesendet: Freitag, 28. August 2009 16:40
An: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
The Drake Equation is a prime example of mental masuturbation. It proves
absolutely nothing. How can an equation p
a. and the amount of time it takes for
reproduction to occure.
In short we are the aliens!
eve a great day!
Steve
--- On Fri, 8/28/09, Phil Whitmer wrote:
> From: Phil Whitmer
> Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Frida
Hi Phil, List,
Humanity's arrogance is only outweighed by it's ignorance.
You say NO... I say prove it.
I say possible... You say not!
There's more evidence that there IS than proof there's NOT.
A closed mind knows nothing and agrees with nothing but itself... An
open mind however realizes t
On Fri, 28 Aug 2009 10:40:09 -0400, you wrote:
>The Drake Equation is a prime example of mental masuturbation. It proves
>absolutely nothing. How can an equation prove anything when none of the
>variables are known with any certainity? As Rob points out, one zero
>nullifies the whole silly thin
Kirk,
We all know the Universe is really, really big. Maybe even infinite, maybe
infinite plus one, maybe even double dog infinite. What does that have to do
with abiogenisis? Why don't you tell me how life got started here on Earth,
(that would be real science), then we'll move on to whether
The Drake Equation is a prime example of mental masuturbation. It proves
absolutely nothing. How can an equation prove anything when none of the
variables are known with any certainity? As Rob points out, one zero
nullifies the whole silly thing. How about Ne; the number of known Earth
like p
ld be zero.
Do you disagree with the SETI scientists and astronomers and the findings
thru the HUBBLE telescope??
Kirk..
- Original Message -
From: "Rob McCafferty"
To:
Sent: Friday, August 28, 2009 8:28 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
>>
>
> >>That is just hogwash in my opinion---the Drake
> Equation proves that
> life
> >>MUST exist elsewhere.
>
ERRMM! So what happens to the result if just one of the many factors happens to
have a value of zero?
__
http://www.meteoritecent
Hello all,
ok I already saw little green men. Also red ones. They seem to be
intelligent as they
predict whether cars on the street will stop or not. Oh, it seems I
saw them at traffic
lights
So maybe aliens who look at us will have a different point of view
what life is.
How
> From: Becky and Kirk
> Seems to me that the Mars rovers have
> pretty much proved that at one time Mars probably supported
> life based on their findings and observations
Really? I don't see that at all. Maybe it was the way you worded it but
it being damper there 4Ga ago than it is now does
> 47 Intelligence at the Human Level Is Rare
Yes, it seems to be pretty rare on earth as well
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I've recently been downloading science books from a huge number available on a
web site (http://avaxhome.ws/ebooks/science_books) and have picked out some that
are either directly about the possibilities of extraterrestrial life (both pro
and con) or are about exoplanets in general. I've archived
Phil,
Here is the proof you are looking for:
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/proof-aliens-exist.jpg
Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
On Tue, Aug 25, 2009 at 11:50 AM, Phil Whitmer wrote:
> Mike: OK, now I believe in the tall gray men from outer space men
Mike: OK, now I believe in the tall gray men from outer space men, now
prove to me the existence of little green men!
LOL,
Phil
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Phil,
> Little green men or tall gray men, I have to see one to believe in them.
Here is the evidence you seek:
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/steve-arnold-with-alien.jpg
I hope that clears things up for you.
Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
On Tue, Aug
2009 12:24 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
To all listees pondering the Eternal Verities:
Just because the Universe is really big is not an argument that there is
Life out there. The Ocean is really big, but that's not an argument for
the existence of a Loch Ness
: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
Darren:
That's funny!
But realistically, the percentage is much lower if you figure in the
complete lack of evidence for life on the Moon, Mars, all the other planets
and their moons, the Sun, all the aste
Drake says:
N = R x Fp X ne X fl X Fi X fc X L
my reckoning:
1 = 1 X 30% X 0.1 X 40% X 40% X 29% X 1000
Where
R = The number of stars in a similar class to ours born each year
Fp = Percentage of stars that for planets
Ne = Number of planets for each star that have the right conditions for
life
l.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
That is just hogwash in my opinion---the Drake Equation proves that life
MUST exist elsewhere.
Even the SETI scientists agree that LIFE is probably abundant!
Absence of Evidence is NOT Evidence of Absence!!
Kirk..
- Original Me
2009 06:07
An: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; prairiecac...@rtcol.com;
meteoritelistmeteoritelist
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
As always, a great post, Sterling!
> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
> To: prairiecac
Why does everyone always assume aliens are super intelligent? based on
the earth model >99.999% of all life in the
universe (if there is any other) is actually not intelligent.
There is a massive difference between, intelligent life,
semi-intelligent life, and basic 'life
The corollary--I ask because they obviously have confederates (if not actual
members themselves) on this list-- maybe they can bring us a Mercury sample?
Maybe Venus? Phobos? Demos? Saturn ring tektites?
I have some glass beads, tin mirrors, iron hatchets to swap. (It worked once
before thou
Darren:
That's funny!
But realistically, the percentage is much lower if you figure in the
complete lack of evidence for life on the Moon, Mars, all the other planets
and their moons, the Sun, all the asteroids, all the comets, and any other
stuff that might be hanging around the edges of t
On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 01:24:10 -0400, you wrote:
>Until I see this evidence I have to conclude that on the closest planet that
>was once very Earth like, there is no sign of life. If we can't even find
>it on Mars, which should have been teeming with life, which should have
>left tons of eviden
To all listees pondering the Eternal Verities:
Just because the Universe is really big is not an argument that there is
Life out there. The Ocean is really big, but that's not an argument for the
existence of a Loch Ness monster or any other species of pleisosaur. I
have to actually see a
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:04:05 -0500, you wrote:
>22 Berserkers
Now you're making me want to reread the classics:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_%28Saberhagen%29
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As always, a great post, Sterling!
> From: sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net
> To: prairiecac...@rtcol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> Date: Mon, 24 Aug 2009 22:04:05 -0500
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predic
Hi Rob, List,
Thanks for the reply Hmmm. Where to start...
"...Yes, it's a lot of rolls of the dice. But it still does not equate
to certainty that the right conditions for life will emerge in more than
one location at roughly the same time..."
Probability need not be compared to certain
sting discussion of these issues in
the URL above at Google Books and this excellent summary of
the problem, by David Brin, "The Great Silence" (free download):
http://www.brin-l.com/downloads/silence.pdf
Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message -
From: "Phil Wh
Thanks Darren for your response.
Sorry in advance for the long email, but I couldn't stop typing... ;)
The alien question is obviously meant to get some discussion going on
this topic which I feel hasn't been discussed enough on-list. (but who
am I) I think there are a few reasons why as it's
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 04:42:34 -0700, you wrote:
>Who here believes that sometime in the near future we will discover, or
>be discovered by another life form?
Utterly unknowable.
Let's rephrase the question in a more Earthbound way. What are the chances
that, in the near future, you and I will
On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 12:17:30 -0400, you wrote:
>destiny and a matter of survival. Nobody knows how or why it happened, it
>just did. It was either God or chance, take your pick.
This is what is known as a false dichotomy. There is at least one more option
than "god" or "chance"-- that some t
ay, August 24, 2009 11:17 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
Eric:
It's my belief that We Are Alone! There's nobody out there. Life and
intelligence is a singularity, a miracle, call it what you will, it only
happened once, here on good old Planet Earth. We ar
Hi all -
A long way from meteorites, but not so far from impactors. If they ever set up
a NEO detecting radar on the Moon, then the same facility could be used to pick
up the equivalent of "I Love Lucy" reruns from a galaxy far, far away.
I think that the ratings will be phenomenal.
Well, that
Hi Phil and friends,
Absence of evidence doesn't imply evidence of absence. While I tend to
be skeptical about such things, I think bacteria-like creatures might
be fairly common in the galaxy. Evolution would cause them to
diversity and perhaps find the same pathway to multicelluarity like
life on
Phil,
I'm sure you saw this article a few months ago:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/space/4629672/AAAS-One-hundred-billion-trillion-planets-where-alien-life-could-flourish.html
Mike Hankey
http://www.mikesastrophotos.com
On Mon, Aug 24, 2009 at 12:17 PM, Phil Whitmer wrote:
> Eric:
>
> I
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
> To: "meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com"
>
> Date: Monday, August 24, 2009, 11:39 AM
> If they are truly intelligent, they
> won't talk to us !
>
> Andre Bordeleau
> _
Eric:
It's my belief that We Are Alone! There's nobody out there. Life and
intelligence is a singularity, a miracle, call it what you will, it only
happened once, here on good old Planet Earth. We are the Seed that will
spread throughout the Universe by Space Migration. It's our manifest
d
AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alien Contact Predicted
Hi Listees,
On a lighter and much more important note...
"...Some leading astronomers are quite confident that mankind will make
contact with intelligent alien life within two decades..."
Regard
Eric, It's 5:00 in the morning. Couldn't you wait until the afternoon to talk
about aliens? :D
Carl
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Hi Listees,
On a lighter and much more important note...
"...Some leading astronomers are quite confident that mankind will make
contact with intelligent alien life within two decades..."
http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/08/humans-predicted-to-make-contact-with-an-extraterrestrial-ci
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