date:20070611

Yah, to stay objective is fine,
look how helpful and rewarding it can be to be objective - you'll get a fine
slice of a lunaite for free, only because of this email!:

I don't know, what for energy efficient light bulbs are produced in your
country,
but most of the standard products nowadays available,
have a product life between 8,000 and 12,000 hours. Some of them more than
20,000 hours.
A conventional light bulb has on average a life time of 1,000 hours.
The production of a energy efficient light bulb consumes 10 times more
energy than the production of a conventional one.

So the higher amount of energy is already counterbalanced by the longer
lifespan. (If your energy saving bulb gets broken before, you will get it
replaced in the shop you bought it).

Now to the real saving potential and there you can see, that you don't have
to be an ecological Taliban.

Let's take a conventional bulb of 100 W.
Costs around 1Euro.
Use it 8000 hours -- consumption 800kWh and you have to buy 8 bulbs because
of the short life span.
Don't know your energy prices - here let's say a kWh costs 0.17Euro.
Result 144Euro 

Energy efficient bulb.
Costs 15 Euro, for 8000hours you'll need only one.
Such a bulb with the same brightness of a conventional 100W bulb
consumes 80% less, hence after 8000 hours --- 160kWh
Result 42,20Euro

Saved 101,80Euro.

Srew in 10 of such bulbs at home --- 1018Euro --- 1360$ saved

Buy some nice meteorites from me for 1200$ and 2 barrels of Brent to burn
for your remorse to have made Al Gore and his fundamentalists happy... :-) 

No seriously, the majority of 1st-World-consumer doesn't care much about
saving energy and ecological stuff,
(as long as they aren't seriously afflicted in person by the effects of the
warming. Yesterday I sent an email to Sterling and the list, which didn't
came through with some simple examples where people already have to pay a
lot of cash to adapt to the effects of their regional warming, to underline,
that several professions and people have crossed quite a while ago the point
of the discussion, whether there is a warming or not, simply because they
had to adapt already to the changed conditions ). 

You have to see it more practically: they will change their consumption
habits, when they'll see, that more efficient products don't constrain their
comfort and living standard, AND (and but) when energy prices will haven
risen to a level, where their usual energy consume would mean indeed a
decline of the quality of their daily life.
So that they'll see, that's simply cheaper for them to use better products.
And I see no hope, that energy prices won't get more and more expensive.

It's very simple, isn't it and certainly no question of an ideology.

Skol
Martin


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von mark
ford
Gesendet: Montag, 11. Juni 2007 12:10
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence,Off topic DEFORESTATION
for Furniture.


Yep, and solar panels, energy efficient light bulbs, and most wind
turbines all take more 'co2'/energy to produce, dispose of, and
transport around the world than they will ever 'save' or generate in
their entire short working product life! (Paticularly solar panels, they
are the worst way of generating power there is (besides coal and gas),
also being stuffed full of very nasty chemicals like selenium!)

And ... actually mature forests emit more co2 and methane than
new/virgin forests do (down to the decaying wood and forest floor
ecosystem), so cutting down forests and replanting them with younger
trees is ironically actually better for the environment!! (though not if
you are a monkey of course).

It's really easy to get caught up in the hype, but my advice is stay
objective !

Mark






-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric
Twelker
Sent: 11 June 2007 07:07
To: Michael Farmer; Meteorite Mailing List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence, Off topic
DEFORESTATION for Furniture.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,5673,1659036,00.html

Here is an article on how biodiesel--one of the green movement's great
ideas
works.  The green movement isn't so green after all--except when the
green
is money.

Eric Twelker


 http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070610/sc_nm/deforestation_dc
 
 
 WOW, this article is on YAHOO front page right now.
 It shows the level of destruction for profit, legal
 and illegal. If you ever want to see the jungle, now
 is the time. 
 Michael Farmer
 __
 Meteorite-list mailing list
 Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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[meteorite-list] OT: Looking for Mark Earnst, urgent

Mark, where art thou?

Don't you want to earn money?
A client with a big order is urgently and desperately looking for you.
Please contact me immediately (or take a look in your email-inbox).

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Thanks,
Martin

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Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence, Off topic DEFORESTATION for Furniture.

2007-06-11 Thread mark ford

Martin,

I agree, and yes saving energy is a good thing! (that is if they actually save 
energy from 'creation to disposal') and as you say it also saves the consumer 
money..

 But with regard to 'environmental and energy 'costs' - also factor in the 
manufacturing and transportation 'so called - production energy' energy 
efficient light bulbs contain much more worked glass, more plastic, they 
contain toxic fluorescent materials, mercury vapor, Passive electronic 
components (sourced from all over the world), fiberglass PCB's, silicon chips 
(sourced from all over the world), electroplated gold silver, 
Gallium/antimony/arsenic in components,  copper in wound components, Ferrites. 
Add to this the environmental disposal impacts (only some can be recycled) 
burning, land fill etc. - add up all this up and the energy it takes to make 
them, and it is significantly more than a simple glass bulb with wire.  Even if 
they last 5-10 times longer in our homes. (modern conventional light bulbs 
actually have a very long life these days anyway).

All I am saying is there are a lot of misconceptions over all the 'green 
energy' products.  All  things like solar panels do, is allow you to generate 
some power locally (and naturally they are very useful for this, if 
inefficient)  but all they do is shift the energy required to make it to 
somewhere else like china - (they don't actually save the planet - when you 
take the whole product life cycle into account). 

The whole concept of 'carbon foot print' is fundamentally flawed - imho!




Mark F.








-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin Altmann
Sent: 11 June 2007 12:45
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence,Off topic DEFORESTATION for 
Furniture.

Yah, to stay objective is fine,
look how helpful and rewarding it can be to be objective - you'll get a fine
slice of a lunaite for free, only because of this email!:

I don't know, what for energy efficient light bulbs are produced in your
country,
but most of the standard products nowadays available,
have a product life between 8,000 and 12,000 hours. Some of them more than
20,000 hours.
A conventional light bulb has on average a life time of 1,000 hours.
The production of a energy efficient light bulb consumes 10 times more
energy than the production of a conventional one.

So the higher amount of energy is already counterbalanced by the longer
lifespan. (If your energy saving bulb gets broken before, you will get it
replaced in the shop you bought it).

Now to the real saving potential and there you can see, that you don't have
to be an ecological Taliban.

Let's take a conventional bulb of 100 W.
Costs around 1Euro.
Use it 8000 hours -- consumption 800kWh and you have to buy 8 bulbs because
of the short life span.
Don't know your energy prices - here let's say a kWh costs 0.17Euro.
Result 144Euro 

Energy efficient bulb.
Costs 15 Euro, for 8000hours you'll need only one.
Such a bulb with the same brightness of a conventional 100W bulb
consumes 80% less, hence after 8000 hours --- 160kWh
Result 42,20Euro

Saved 101,80Euro.

Srew in 10 of such bulbs at home --- 1018Euro --- 1360$ saved

Buy some nice meteorites from me for 1200$ and 2 barrels of Brent to burn
for your remorse to have made Al Gore and his fundamentalists happy... :-) 

No seriously, the majority of 1st-World-consumer doesn't care much about
saving energy and ecological stuff,
(as long as they aren't seriously afflicted in person by the effects of the
warming. Yesterday I sent an email to Sterling and the list, which didn't
came through with some simple examples where people already have to pay a
lot of cash to adapt to the effects of their regional warming, to underline,
that several professions and people have crossed quite a while ago the point
of the discussion, whether there is a warming or not, simply because they
had to adapt already to the changed conditions ). 

You have to see it more practically: they will change their consumption
habits, when they'll see, that more efficient products don't constrain their
comfort and living standard, AND (and but) when energy prices will haven
risen to a level, where their usual energy consume would mean indeed a
decline of the quality of their daily life.
So that they'll see, that's simply cheaper for them to use better products.
And I see no hope, that energy prices won't get more and more expensive.

It's very simple, isn't it and certainly no question of an ideology.

Skol
Martin


-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von mark
ford
Gesendet: Montag, 11. Juni 2007 12:10
An: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence,Off topic DEFORESTATION
for Furniture.


Yep, and solar panels, energy efficient light bulbs, and most wind
turbines all take more 'co2'/energy to produce, dispose of, and

[meteorite-list] Arrowheads from NWA - post-Pleistocene

2007-06-11 Thread Thaddeus Besedin

 The small projectile points of the varieties
usually illicitly exported from Northern and Western
Saharan sites are technologically Mesolithic and
Neolithic; as such, most were produced after the
dissemination of animal husbandry, ceramics, and the
bow, and were thus produced after ~10,000 - 9,000 BP.
There is evidence that the bow had an earlier
introduction in localized variations  of lithic
assemblages of this period - small projectile points
of the Capsian Epipaleolithic (Mesolithic) period may
have been used as arrow points. There is  evidence of
atlatl(spearthrower) use in Africa as early as 25,000
BP, so most upper Paleolithic-Epipaleolithic
(Mesolithic) objects from the Western Sahara
classified as projectile points were probably used to
tip dart projectiles launched from atlatls, and are
metrically equivalent to atlatl points in use in the
Americas, where historical documentation by colonial
Europeans of their use exists (e.g. Aztec weapon
technology). Looted projectile points that have been
common on the antiquities market recently are not
typically the long, narrow lanceolate and often
unifacial late Ibero-Maurisian (Oranian) projectiles
(with parallel-oblique flaking) that are quite similar
to Magdalenian objects, but are instead small (3cm in
length), bifacial, and barbed/stemmed or triangular
with concave or convex bases, although small, often
serrated bipointed and elliptical lanceolate forms
exist. 
Both Oranian and Magdalenian cultures are
contemporaneous, with the Oranian usually considered
to begin between the end of the Oldest Dryas and the
onset of the Bølling Interstadial in the
Blytt-Sernander system, approximimately 15,000 BP, and
terminating with at the approximate initial Neothermal
Atlantic(Holocene)Atlantic period, when Capsian
Mesolithic (Epipaleolithic) industries superseded
Oranian Mesolithic industries in the archaeological
record (the Oranian Ibero-Maurisian-Capsian transition
is classified, as a chronological stage, independently
of European Mesolithic stages - the term
'Epipaleolithic' is applied instead). Magdalenian
technological components range in age from ca. 18,000
BP (Würm Glacial Maximum)to ca. 11,000 BP (terminal
Pleistocene). Climatic correlation between those
environmental changes stimulating technological
innovation in Northwestern Africa (Oranian sites occur
from Libya to Morocco) and stadial/interstadial events
in Europe have not been adequately explored, so the
Blytt-Sernander system is used for convenience, since
a Mediterranean coastal focus is common to sites in
Northwest Africa with artifacts common to Oranian
industries, thus eustasy had direct impact on Oranian
settlement patterns and resource exploitation.
 Like Magdalenian industries, Oranian industries
produced blade (linear flake) tools, and when these
non-microlithic tools are predominant in single
components of Oranian lithic assemblages, these
assemblages are properly considered to be the products
of late Upper Paleolithic industries. With the
inclusion of microblade technologies in both Oranian
and Magdalenian assemblages, these assemblages are
classified as  Mesolithic/Epipaleolithic;  hafted,
highly standardized microblade-based lithic objects,
which were inserted in series into organic handles are
abundant in Mesolithic contexts from Europe to Alaska,
although most organic artifacts presumed to have been
present upon deposition of assemblages have
disintegrated.
A distinction between Capsian Mesolithic and Capsian
Neolithic industries must be recognized, with
ceramics, in use beginning ~7,000 BP, a diagnostic
artifact of the Capsian Neolithic, which existed in
the middle Atlas region of Algeria from 6,200  5,300
BP
(http://www.reference-wordsmith.com/cgi-bin/lookup.cgi?exact=1terms=Neolithic).
 Anyway, any projectile points predating 13,000 BP are
unsuitable for hafting as arrow points due to
excessive weight and length, and Capsian Neolithic
sites, producing the small, exquisitely-crafted
projectile points familiar to us, are found from
Tunisia (where the type site, Jabal al-Maqta, is
located, on the shore of  a salt lake) to Morocco.
This explains the intersection of meteorite collection
and artifact looting in Morocco and Algeria. You will
find that the morphology of projectile points acquired
from Moroccan dealers is almost always typical of
these later types. The Sahara is not all uninhabitable
dunes and barren rock, and did not undergo
desertification at the same rate everywhere. Today,
wetlands are still extant throughout the Western
Sahara, with perennial freshwater and brackish pools
and wetlands in the Atlas Mountain region where
Capsian culture flourished. 
-Thaddeus 

--- E.P. Grondine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Hi Sterling, list - 
 
 Bessey's arrowheads are likely far older than
 13,000-9,000 years old (11,000 BCE - 7,000 BCE). The
 Sahara begins to dry up at the start of the Holocene
 by 8,350 BCE at the latest. (Atlantic impact.)  The
 impact that produced the

Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence, Off topic DEFORESTATION for Furniture.

2007-06-11 Thread Matthias Bärmann


Hi aficionados,

one aspect of alternative energy still is neglected, surprisingly neglected
on this list. Remember:

Noerdlinger Ries impact: power of rst H-bombs; the Tunguska ecvent: power of
uvw H-bombs; even Bassikounou: power of, well, let's say enough for this
small village for this century.

So: why the hell wasting all this energy develloped by meteorites when
passing through atmosphere and landing/impacting? Let's make better use of
this high-temperature process! And let's collect the metis afterwards pretty
clean, without this ugly black fusion crust, unheated, white, shimmering,
innocent ;-)

Well, and if China and India continue to develop with such a speed, we
sooner or later need a little asteroid (which is a rhyme, wow).

Not at least the list will spare energy 'cause discussions like Do irons
have fusion crust will be definetely stopped: no, they don't have any
longer. And finally the prices for features such as fusion lips, flow lines
etc. will rise rapidly.

So anyone will participate in such a project. For what we're waiting?

All best,

Matthias Baermann





- Original Message - 
From: mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 2:24 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence,Off topic DEFORESTATION
for Furniture.


Martin,

I agree, and yes saving energy is a good thing! (that is if they actually
save energy from 'creation to disposal') and as you say it also saves the
consumer money..

But with regard to 'environmental and energy 'costs' - also factor in the
manufacturing and transportation 'so called - production energy' energy
efficient light bulbs contain much more worked glass, more plastic, they
contain toxic fluorescent materials, mercury vapor, Passive electronic
components (sourced from all over the world), fiberglass PCB's, silicon
chips (sourced from all over the world), electroplated gold silver,
Gallium/antimony/arsenic in components,  copper in wound components,
Ferrites. Add to this the environmental disposal impacts (only some can be
recycled) burning, land fill etc. - add up all this up and the energy it
takes to make them, and it is significantly more than a simple glass bulb
with wire.  Even if they last 5-10 times longer in our homes. (modern
conventional light bulbs actually have a very long life these days anyway).

All I am saying is there are a lot of misconceptions over all the 'green
energy' products.  All  things like solar panels do, is allow you to
generate some power locally (and naturally they are very useful for this, if
inefficient)  but all they do is shift the energy required to make it to
somewhere else like china - (they don't actually save the planet - when you
take the whole product life cycle into account).

The whole concept of 'carbon foot print' is fundamentally flawed - imho!




Mark F.








-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin
Altmann
Sent: 11 June 2007 12:45
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence,Off topic DEFORESTATION
for Furniture.

Yah, to stay objective is fine,
look how helpful and rewarding it can be to be objective - you'll get a fine
slice of a lunaite for free, only because of this email!:

I don't know, what for energy efficient light bulbs are produced in your
country,
but most of the standard products nowadays available,
have a product life between 8,000 and 12,000 hours. Some of them more than
20,000 hours.
A conventional light bulb has on average a life time of 1,000 hours.
The production of a energy efficient light bulb consumes 10 times more
energy than the production of a conventional one.

So the higher amount of energy is already counterbalanced by the longer
lifespan. (If your energy saving bulb gets broken before, you will get it
replaced in the shop you bought it).

Now to the real saving potential and there you can see, that you don't have
to be an ecological Taliban.

Let's take a conventional bulb of 100 W.
Costs around 1Euro.
Use it 8000 hours -- consumption 800kWh and you have to buy 8 bulbs because
of the short life span.
Don't know your energy prices - here let's say a kWh costs 0.17Euro.
Result 144Euro

Energy efficient bulb.
Costs 15 Euro, for 8000hours you'll need only one.
Such a bulb with the same brightness of a conventional 100W bulb
consumes 80% less, hence after 8000 hours --- 160kWh
Result 42,20Euro

Saved 101,80Euro.

Srew in 10 of such bulbs at home --- 1018Euro --- 1360$ saved

Buy some nice meteorites from me for 1200$ and 2 barrels of Brent to burn
for your remorse to have made Al Gore and his fundamentalists happy... :-)

No seriously, the majority of 1st-World-consumer doesn't care much about
saving energy and ecological stuff,
(as long as they aren't seriously afflicted in person by the effects of the
warming. Yesterday I sent an email to Sterling and the list, which didn't
came through with some simple

Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim baby!

2007-06-11 Thread MARK BOSTICK


Dean, I will see you in Ensisheim in just a few days!

Have fun at Ensisheim Dean and Mike (and anyone else attending of course).  
I so much wanted to go this year, but alas, it is not in the cards.


Be sure to take plenty of photos for us in cyberspace.

Clear Skies,
Mark


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[meteorite-list] something else to consider [global warming]

2007-06-11 Thread Jerry


http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

Then there's the relatively recent study of the cycles of Solar activity 
[Sun Spots] which is poorly understood.
Jerry Flaherty 


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[meteorite-list] The Imaginary Mucks of Alaska and Siberia was Arrowheads from NWA

2007-06-11 Thread Paul

In the post Arrowheads from NWA, Mr. Grondine wrote:

The impact that produced the Alaskan and Siberian 
mucks, and altered the north Pacific currents, and the
world's weather, are covered in my book Man and
Impact in the Americas.

One major problem is that the so-called Alaskan and Siberian 
mucks exist only in the very vivid imagination of various 
catastrophists, i.e. Deloria (1997), Hapgood (1970), and 
Velikovsky (1955). Over the last sixty years, numerous papers
have shown that the descriptions of the so-called Alaskan and
Siberian mucks by Hibben (1942, 1946) and Rainey (1940) are 
grossly incorrect and completely refuted the interpretations, 
which they have made of their catastrophic origin. 

A typical description of muck is:

In Alaska, for example, thick frozen deposits of 
volcanic ash, silts, sands, boulders, lenticles and 
ribbons of unmelted ice, and countless relics of late 
Pleistocene animals and plants lie jumbled together 
in no discernible order. This amazing deposit, 
usually referred to as 'muck', has been described 
by Dr Rainey as containing: '... enormous numbers 
of frozen bones of extinct animals, such as mammoth, 
mastodon, super bison and horse, as well as brush, 
stumps, moss and freshwater molluscs (281)'.

It has now been proved that such descriptions are nothing more 
than imaginative fiction, which have been soundly refuted by 
over 50 years of research and numerous peer-reviewed papers 
and monographs, which have been published by the Quaternary 
geologist, who have studied these deposits for decades.

As proved by numerous published peer-reviewed papers and 
monographs, including Berger (2003), Bettis et al. (2003), 
Guthrie (1990), McDowell and Edwards (2001), Muhs et al. 
(2001, 2003, 2004), Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989), and 
Westgate et al. (1990), the claim that these deposits consist 
of  thick frozen deposits of volcanic ash, silts, sands, boulders, 
lenticles and ribbons of unmelted ice, and countless relics of 
late Pleistocene animals and plants lie jumbled together in no 
discernible order is false. Instead, as described in numerous 
publications, specifically Guthrie (1990), Muhs et al. (2003), 
Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989), and Westgate et al. (1990), 
the deposits, which are often referred to as Alaskan muck 
consist of a well-ordered, layer-cake sequence of stratigraphic
units containing distinct paleosols and buried forests with in 
situ tree stumps. As seen in Figures 20 and 29 of Pewe (1975); 
Figure 4 of Pewe et al. (1997); and the measured sections of
Westgate et al. (1990), the so-called muck consists of well-
defined geologic layers, which are only jumbled where the 
surface has been disturbed by either thermokarst, landslides, 
solifluction, or some combination of these processes. The total 
thickness of the Quaternary deposits, which have been designated 
as muck is only 10 to 20 m (33 to 66 ft) as their thickest, 
which become thinner upslope.

Satrting with Pewe (1955), Quaternary geologists have recognized 
the presence of 7 well-defined stratigraphic units, which the 
deposits that are falsely described as being jumbled together 
in no discernible order. Some of these stratigraphic units, i.e. 
the Ready Bullion Formation, Engineer Loess, Goldstream 
Formation, Gold Hill Loess, and the Fairbanks Loess, consist
of silt, which have been demonstrated to consist of a combination
of  wind-blown silt called loess and sediments moved down-hill 
by slopewash and solifluction. Some stratigraphic units, i.e. the 
Dawson Cut and Eva Formations, contain buried, in situ forests 
that are rooted in fossil soils, which are called paleosols. 
Other stratigraphic units , i.e. the Tanana Formation, Fox 
Gravel, and Cripple Gravel, consist of gravels, which often 
contain gold and demonstrated to have been deposited by 
streams (Bettis et al. 2003; Pewe 1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989; 
Pewe et al. 1997; Westgate et al. 1990; Muhs et al. 2001, 
2003, 2004).

In addition, the contacts between these stratigraphic units are 
well-defined, persistent, and easily mappable. The forest beds, 
ice-wedge casts, and buried soils, which are found associated 
with the contacts demonstrate the periods of nondeposition 
lasting thousands to tens of thousands years occurred between 
the deposition different stratigraphic units. They soundly 
refute the claim that the Alaskan muck accumulated during a 
single catastrophic event. Even within individual stratigraphic 
units, paleosols can be found indicating that the accumulation 
of sediments comprising individual them was not continuous being 
interrupted by periods of either nondeposition and landscape 
stability or erosion (Bettis et al. 2003; Pewe 1955, 1975a, 
1975b, 1989; Pewe et al. 1997; Westgate et al. 1990; Muhs et 
al. 2001, 2003, 2004).


Rainey (1940) and Hibbens (1942, 1946) were wrong in their 
claims that the remains plant and animal fossils occur randomly
together throughout the Alaskan muck.

Re: [meteorite-list] Arrowheads from NWA - post-Pleistocene

2007-06-11 Thread E.P. Grondine

Hi Thaddeus, all - 

Most infomative, but...

The source was stated to be the Sahara, not the Atlas
mountains. 

The problem that you always have with NWA is
provenience, and that is as true for lithics as well
as meteorites. I think that some of this material is
even coming in from as far away as Mauretania. 

The local archeaologists do not have the money to
excavate, in the same way that the local geologists do
not have the money to collect meteorites.  What might
be the role of the private market in supporting these
academics is one of those vast questions which I
suppose is beyond the scope of discussion here.  In
the meantime, people earn a living, as they usually
do.

I guess that given this situation, one of the
important things that has to be done is to identify
the major source rocks from which these tools were
fashioned. (There is a more elegant term for these
quarries, but it escapes me right now, as many things
do since my stroke.)

Micro-lithic technologies and early domesticates
appear to have spread from the east. Egyptian dates
were given as around 12,000 BCE.

Sheep husbandry appears to have spread from the
Mediterranean to coastal Europe and Africa at a fairly
late date, accompanying tunny fishing and pottery, say
about 6,000 BCE.  Cattle husbandry appears to have
developed in the Eastern Sahara slightly earlier, say
about 9,000 BCE, with appearance say about 8,000 BCE
in Egypt. 

As the bow and arrow appear late in the Americas, I
would be interested in learning exactly where this
technology developed, and how it spread.  

The early African coastal sites are undoubtedly
several hundred feet underwater, as are early coastal
sites are throughout the world. They were drowned as
the ice caps melted following the holocene start
impact in the North Pacific.

Given all the circa dates, it might be nice to have
some tree ring dates for the formation of the Alaskan
mucks and the flooding of the Black Sea. 

At any rate, it's good to know you're there to type
this material when it comes in.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas 

--- Thaddeus Besedin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  The small projectile points of the varieties
 usually illicitly exported from Northern and Western
 Saharan sites are technologically Mesolithic and
 Neolithic; as such, most were produced after the
 dissemination of animal husbandry, ceramics, and the
 bow, and were thus produced after ~10,000 - 9,000
 BP.
 There is evidence that the bow had an earlier
 introduction in localized variations  of lithic
 assemblages of this period - small projectile points
 of the Capsian Epipaleolithic (Mesolithic) period
 may
 have been used as arrow points. There is  evidence
 of
 atlatl(spearthrower) use in Africa as early as
 25,000
 BP, so most upper Paleolithic-Epipaleolithic
 (Mesolithic) objects from the Western Sahara
 classified as projectile points were probably used
 to
 tip dart projectiles launched from atlatls, and are
 metrically equivalent to atlatl points in use in the
 Americas, where historical documentation by colonial
 Europeans of their use exists (e.g. Aztec weapon
 technology). Looted projectile points that have been
 common on the antiquities market recently are not
 typically the long, narrow lanceolate and often
 unifacial late Ibero-Maurisian (Oranian) projectiles
 (with parallel-oblique flaking) that are quite
 similar
 to Magdalenian objects, but are instead small (3cm
 in
 length), bifacial, and barbed/stemmed or triangular
 with concave or convex bases, although small, often
 serrated bipointed and elliptical lanceolate forms
 exist. 
 Both Oranian and Magdalenian cultures are
 contemporaneous, with the Oranian usually considered
 to begin between the end of the Oldest Dryas and the
 onset of the Bølling Interstadial in the
 Blytt-Sernander system, approximimately 15,000 BP,
 and
 terminating with at the approximate initial
 Neothermal
 Atlantic(Holocene)Atlantic period, when Capsian
 Mesolithic (Epipaleolithic) industries superseded
 Oranian Mesolithic industries in the archaeological
 record (the Oranian Ibero-Maurisian-Capsian
 transition
 is classified, as a chronological stage,
 independently
 of European Mesolithic stages - the term
 'Epipaleolithic' is applied instead). Magdalenian
 technological components range in age from ca.
 18,000
 BP (Würm Glacial Maximum)to ca. 11,000 BP (terminal
 Pleistocene). Climatic correlation between those
 environmental changes stimulating technological
 innovation in Northwestern Africa (Oranian sites
 occur
 from Libya to Morocco) and stadial/interstadial
 events
 in Europe have not been adequately explored, so the
 Blytt-Sernander system is used for convenience,
 since
 a Mediterranean coastal focus is common to sites in
 Northwest Africa with artifacts common to Oranian
 industries, thus eustasy had direct impact on
 Oranian
 settlement patterns and resource exploitation.
  Like Magdalenian industries, Oranian industries
 produced blade (linear

Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2007

2007-06-11 Thread SPACEROCKSINC

In a message dated 6/11/2007 8:41:48 A.M.  Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good Lord..   another unclassifed meteorite as Picture of the day?
Yawn.

There should be a rule.  No unclassifieds as Picture of the  day.

Don



Sorry you're  disappointed Don but you know you don't have to view them if 
you choose not  to!

I post what collectors send me and if they want to share with others  rather 
classified or not I see nothing wrong with  it.


Sincerely,
Michael Johnson





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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2007

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 11:50:03 EDT, you wrote:

In a message dated 6/11/2007 8:41:48 A.M.  Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good Lord..   another unclassifed meteorite as Picture of the day?
Yawn.

There should be a rule.  No unclassifieds as Picture of the  day.

Don



Sorry you're  disappointed Don but you know you don't have to view them if 
you choose not  to!

I post what collectors send me and if they want to share with others  rather 
classified or not I see nothing wrong with  it.


I disagree entirely with the original post.  That's a beautiful meteorite, and
saying that it has to be classified to be worth showing is more of the where it
hits matters sillyness.
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[meteorite-list] AD: 40+ one-cent auctions ending in hours.

2007-06-11 Thread Michael Farmer

Hi everyone, I have over 40 meteorites ending today. I
will be in Europe for a full month, so this
is my last ebay sale until late July.
 
Two special meteorites are ending in hours, one cent
items. 

Superb large Muonionalusta slice, 215 grams!
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ170119825224

Large Brahin slice, translucent crystals, 322 grams:
http://cgi.ebay.com/_W0QQitemZ170119826618


See all of the meteorites offered at the links below.
 
 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteoritehunters
 
 http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZmeteorite-hunter
 


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[meteorite-list] Call for Observations of Vesta

2007-06-11 Thread Ron Baalke

From: adastragrl [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Call for observations of Vesta

As many of you know the Dawn mission is getting ready to launch to
head to the asteroids Vesta and Ceres (dawn.jpl.nasa.gov).
Fortunately, Vesta is a fairly bright asteroid (currently between mag
5 and 6), which means from ideal locations, it is technically a naked
eye object and from other locations binoculars or a small scope are
sufficient.

The Amateur Observers' Program that was put together for the Deep
Impact mission (to observe Tempel 1) is back, but this time to observe
Vesta and later on Ceres. Amateurs are invited to make observations of
Vesta and submit their sketches, animations, lightcurves...

Although Vesta is relatively bright and, well, not exactly challenging
for many of you, I hope you'll take a little time to take a look at
this easy to find asteroid.

Details about the program are at dawn-aop.astro.umd.edu.

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth Warner
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce

2007-06-11 Thread Steve Schoner

Mike,

Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
collectors.

And the prices will go down, too.

But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic impact
of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that environmental
scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater increase in
carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000 years ago
Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small compared to
what we are doing now.

But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are found due
to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the economic
crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470



-- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
could have been spent going back to the moon, building
a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it could
have been done with the money we have pissed away in
Iraq. But hey, look at it this way, Haliburton moved
to Dubai to be closer to the money, they are taking
good care of it for us, the taxpayers. 
Enough of things that do not pertain to meteorites
though, we have all had our say and I will leave this
topic since I have a meteorite show to attend and then
meteorites to dig up in the Arctic.
Michael Farmer



--- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So true Mike Farmer.  That is the problem with our
 age.  We want
 everything never taking into consideration what we
 leave those that
 follow us after we are dead and gone.
 
 They will curse us or thank us for what we do now.
 
 But to do nothing about global warming now, which is
 a scientifically
 proven fact, pretty much leaves them with a ruined
 world and a curse
 for us.
 
 (Maybe by then they will have left this planet to
 terraform Mars, and
 mine asteroids (parent bodies of the meteorites we
 love) for their
 resources, all the while looking out into space or
 up into a Martian
 sky at a bright star that was the world we ruined.)
 
 Steve Schoner.
 #4470
 
 [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically
 proven or a farce
 Michael Farmer meteoriteguy at yahoo.com
 Sun Jun 10 13:25:59 EDT 2007
 
 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Global
 Warming -
 Scientifically proven or a farce
 * Next message: [meteorite-list] Global Warming
 - Scientifically
 proven or a farce
 * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [
 subject ] [ author ]
 
 Paul, ok, lest say you are the proud winner of that
 bet! Bush got his way, America refused to do it's
 part
 and the oceans only raise 4 feet in the next 10
 years.
 
 I guess you had better go to Florida/New York
 City/Boston, most of the Gulf Coast, and well, most
 of
 the Island nations in the Pacific. They will be
 gone,
 good job! Oh, and the Billionairs on Long Island and
 Cape Cod had better sell their homes now, since a 4
 foot rise in sealevel will wash them all away. What
 will Dubya do without the family compound in
 Kennebunkport?
 I lived in Key West Florida. The highest point of
 the
 island is 6 feet. Most of the island is less than 3
 feet above sea level, as is a very large part of
 Florida. Kiss it goodbye, and trillions of $$$ of
 land, homes, and a huge part of our nation.
 Does that make it ok to ignore the melting glaciers,
 ok to do what we are doing now and not even bother
 making changes? That is SICK!
 Unfortunately that is the mentality of a huge part
 of
 our nation today, all about me, my money, and today,
 screw tomorrow, and I gues screw our children, and
 grandchildren, they can learn to live in the crappy
 world we created today to get ours right?
 My kids (If I ever have any) will likely never see a
 glacier in Switzerland, a Polar bear in northern
 Canada, or a white Greenland. It is all going away.
 sort of makes me not want to have kids, so they will
 not have to suffer for our mistakes.
 Michael Farmer 
 
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[meteorite-list] JUNE GIVAWAYS

2007-06-11 Thread steve arnold

Hi list.Short and sweet.I have 8 small micro;s to
givaway:ZAG,NWA 064,GALATIA,GOLD BASIN,NANTAN.NWA 352,
AND SAH 00225.Let me know what you want.Shipping on me.

Steve R.Arnold,chicago,Ill,Usa!!
  Collecting Meteorites since 06/19/1999!!
  chicagometeorites.net.Specializing
  in Gao Meteorites!
  Ebay I.D. Illinoismeteorites



  

Fussy? Opinionated? Impossible to please? Perfect.  Join Yahoo!'s user panel 
and lay it on us. http://surveylink.yahoo.com/gmrs/yahoo_panel_invite.asp?a=7 

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Re: [meteorite-list] Amazing coincedence, Off topic DEFORESTATION for Furniture.

on 6/11/07 3:10 AM, mark ford at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Yep, and solar panels, energy efficient light bulbs, and most wind
 turbines all take more 'co2'/energy to produce, dispose of, and
 transport around the world than they will ever 'save' or generate in
 their entire short working product life! (Paticularly solar panels, they
 are the worst way of generating power there is (besides coal and gas),
 also being stuffed full of very nasty chemicals like selenium!)
--
That would concern me if they did not have a profoundly long working
life. The original solar panels built during world war 2 are STILL
WORKING, so, the life of solar panels is still unknown - except that
they exceed 60 years.

I am sure the most wealthy and powerful people in the world (the owners
of giant oil production - who still have not paid once cent in compensation
to the generational fishing industry families that were wiped out - or for
anything else from the Exxon Valdez  incident - having the most highly
educated and sophisticated lawyers on the planet) would like everyone to
believe renewable power sources are all poppycock.

Michael
  








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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce

2007-06-11 Thread tim . gingell

We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take anymore of
the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay because cash
is all that is worshipped.

 Mike,

 Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

 With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
 and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
 all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
 collectors.

 And the prices will go down, too.

 But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic impact
 of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
 cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that environmental
 scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater increase in
 carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
 directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
 greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000 years ago
 Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
 event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small compared to
 what we are doing now.

 But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are found due
 to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
 farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the economic
 crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?

 Steve Schoner
 IMCA #4470



 -- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
 could have been spent going back to the moon, building
 a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it could
 have been done with the money we have pissed away in
 Iraq. But hey, look at it this way, Haliburton moved
 to Dubai to be closer to the money, they are taking
 good care of it for us, the taxpayers.
 Enough of things that do not pertain to meteorites
 though, we have all had our say and I will leave this
 topic since I have a meteorite show to attend and then
 meteorites to dig up in the Arctic.
 Michael Farmer



 --- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So true Mike Farmer.  That is the problem with our
 age.  We want
 everything never taking into consideration what we
 leave those that
 follow us after we are dead and gone.

 They will curse us or thank us for what we do now.

 But to do nothing about global warming now, which is
 a scientifically
 proven fact, pretty much leaves them with a ruined
 world and a curse
 for us.

 (Maybe by then they will have left this planet to
 terraform Mars, and
 mine asteroids (parent bodies of the meteorites we
 love) for their
 resources, all the while looking out into space or
 up into a Martian
 sky at a bright star that was the world we ruined.)

 Steve Schoner.
 #4470

 [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically
 proven or a farce
 Michael Farmer meteoriteguy at yahoo.com
 Sun Jun 10 13:25:59 EDT 2007

 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Global
 Warming -
 Scientifically proven or a farce
 * Next message: [meteorite-list] Global Warming
 - Scientifically
 proven or a farce
 * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [
 subject ] [ author ]

 Paul, ok, lest say you are the proud winner of that
 bet! Bush got his way, America refused to do it's
 part
 and the oceans only raise 4 feet in the next 10
 years.

 I guess you had better go to Florida/New York
 City/Boston, most of the Gulf Coast, and well, most
 of
 the Island nations in the Pacific. They will be
 gone,
 good job! Oh, and the Billionairs on Long Island and
 Cape Cod had better sell their homes now, since a 4
 foot rise in sealevel will wash them all away. What
 will Dubya do without the family compound in
 Kennebunkport?
 I lived in Key West Florida. The highest point of
 the
 island is 6 feet. Most of the island is less than 3
 feet above sea level, as is a very large part of
 Florida. Kiss it goodbye, and trillions of $$$ of
 land, homes, and a huge part of our nation.
 Does that make it ok to ignore the melting glaciers,
 ok to do what we are doing now and not even bother
 making changes? That is SICK!
 Unfortunately that is the mentality of a huge part
 of
 our nation today, all about me, my money, and today,
 screw tomorrow, and I gues screw our children, and
 grandchildren, they can learn to live in the crappy
 world we created today to get ours right?
 My kids (If I ever have any) will likely never see a
 glacier in Switzerland, a Polar bear in northern
 Canada, or a white Greenland. It is all going away.
 sort of makes me not want to have kids, so they will

Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2007

2007-06-11 Thread STARSANDSCOPES

In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:14:41 A.M.  Mountain Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good  Lord..   another unclassifed meteorite as Picture of the  day?
Yawn.

There should be a  rule.  No unclassifieds as Picture of the   day.

Don



Sorry  you're  disappointed Don but you know you don't have to view them if  
you choose not  to!

I post what collectors send me  and if they want to share with others  
rather 
classified or not I  see nothing wrong with  it.


I disagree entirely with the  original post.  That's a beautiful meteorite, 
and
saying that it has to  be classified to be worth showing is more of the 
where it

This hobby is  about the rocks!  I find unclassified meteorites to be, at 
times, more  interesting because there is still mystery left.  I like nothing 
more than  a beautiful different looking unclassified meteorite.  Lets not 
forget  where they all come from and not long ago (15 years?), the meteorite 
featured in  the Picture of the Day would of drawn a lot of interest from 
nearly 
all in this  hobby regardless of where it was found or if it had been pigeon 
holed  yet.

To limit ones interest to only the classified Hot ticket  meteorites flies 
dangerously close to Pokemon card collecting.  I have a  Bulbasaur!  Well 
that's nothing, my Bulbasaur is Base Set!

I'm  going back to the microscopes to examine some more mysteries.  Who 
knows,  maybe I'll find a Charizard!

Tom  




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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce

2007-06-11 Thread Mark Crawford


Spaceguard wrote:

We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and 
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.


There is absolutely no evidence of any of this, especially in England!


True... Tim's right about this bit though:  :-)


One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay 



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[meteorite-list] Polishing with vibratory lap

2007-06-11 Thread McCartney Taylor

Has anyone had success with using a vib lap?  Leaving a chondrite in
water for 3 days to polish sounds exceedingly foolish. With an iron,
complete insanity.

Is there anyone out there who has found a liquid media that works
without damaging the slice?

-mt

IMCA 2760

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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce

2007-06-11 Thread Spaceguard

We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and 
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.


There is absolutely no evidence of any of this, especially in England!

Jay Tate
The Spaceguard Centre
http://www.spaceguarduk.com


- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a 
farce




We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take anymore of
the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay because cash
is all that is worshipped.



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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce

2007-06-11 Thread Jerry A. Wallace


Good Grief, Charlie Brown.

I had no idea things had deteriorated to that point across the pond (again).
I don't know whether to send food, money, or a sympathy card. Or maybe
all three. Cheer up, maybe that planet destroying asteroid will be here 
sooner

than expected.

Or perhaps a case or two of Quaaludes would tide you over 'til the big one
hits. Stiff upper lip and all that.

Try not to stare directly into the sun for long periods. It can be 
discombobulating.


Jerry


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take anymore of
the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay because cash
is all that is worshipped.

  

  

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[meteorite-list] Message to ZELIMIR

2007-06-11 Thread Pelé Pierre-Marie

Salut Zelimir,

si tu me lis, peux-tu me recontacter par email ?   Tu
dois être débordé en ce moment mais j'ai besoin si
possible d'une table à Ensisheim.

Merci,

Pierre-Marie





  


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Profitez des connaissances, des opinions et des expériences des internautes sur 
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[meteorite-list] Damn weather and classification changes.

2007-06-11 Thread PolandMET


Hi list
My god, saturday I will remember long.
I have sleep like a baby, and in mean time storm comes and first time from 
maybe 20 years it hit our home and killed half of elecronic devices. All TV, 
all phones, notebook and my main computer have big, pretty hole on main 
board :) And now Im wasting my time to turn on my other computers and repair 
internet instead of preparing my stones for Ensisheim.


Anyway I have received some good news from Ted Bunch, NAU.
Everyone who purchased my NWA 4560 LL3.7 could be very happy becouse now 
this meteorite is officialy reclassified as LL3.1. Ted Bunch worked on this 
meteorite for last 3 months.


Several other achondrites are ready , but unfortunatelly they are still 
waiting for their NWA numbers. I only hope that I can make them ready for 
Ensisheim.


Im sure we spend a wonderfull time in Ensisheim.

As a surprize, Im preparing a monster, biggest meteorite that ever leave 
Poland. Its not 10kg, also not 50kg, and not 100kg.

:)

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.PolandMET.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM +48(607)535 195
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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[meteorite-list] So many parent bodies, so few samples

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070611_mm_planet_floodgates.html

Trickle of Planet Discoveries Becomes a Flood 
By Jeanna Bryner
Staff Writer
posted: 11 June 2007
07:10 am ET

Alien worlds, once hidden from knowledge, are now being discovered in droves,
stunning astronomers with their unique features and sheer numbers. The
discoveries are so common that more and more don't even get reported outside
scientific circles. 


Take the announcement at the end of May of a massive planet, dubbed TrES-3, that
zips around its star in an amazingly rapid 31 hours, giving the planet a 1.3-day
year. Astronomers issued a press release, but you might not have heard about it
because the discovery was so overshadowed by other planet announcements and
barely received news coverage. 


It's pretty routine now, said Alan Boss, a planet formation theorist at the
Carnegie Institution of Washington. Most planets that are found are not deemed
worthy of a press release because they are sort of becoming 'one more planet.'


The total is now more than 200 extrasolar planets confirmed. And this is the tip
of the iceberg in planet finds. Astronomers have more tools than ever, and
technology is so advanced that planet discovery has become almost mundane. 


The regularity of planet finds, luckily, is buffered by the wild variety in the
discoveries themselves, including the following contrasts: nascent worlds of
just a million years versus those that are billions of years old; hot gas giants
and icy Neptune-like orbs; planets that whip around their parent stars with
cosmic speed and others that seem to creep at a slug's pace; and planets
orbiting double-stars, red-dwarf stars and even so-called failed stars. 


Transit technique


Astronomers spotted TrES-3 as part of the Trans-atlantic Exoplanet Survey while
looking for transiting planets, or those that pass directly in front of their
home star with respect to Earth. It was detected with a network of telescopes in
Arizona, California, and the Canary Islands. When TrES-3 coasted in front of its
home star, the telescopes picked up a slight dimming of the star's light, by
about 2.5 percent. The scientists used the dimming to estimate the planet's
mass, size and other properties. 


It is located 800 light-years away in the constellation Hercules about 10
degrees west of Vega, one of the brightest stars in the summer skies of the
northern hemisphere. 


It is also a very massive planet-about twice the mass of the solar system's
biggest planet, Jupiter-and is one of the planets with the shortest known
periods, said a co-discoverer of TrES-3 Georgi Mandushev of the Lowell
Observatory in Arizona. 


The giant orb orbits so close to its parent star, about 50 times closer than
Earth is to the Sun, the astronomers estimate its temperature soars to about
1,500 degrees Kelvin. 


Stellar wobbles


While the transit method provides astronomers with the best indirect
information about an exoplanet, so far only about 20 transiting planets have
been spotted. 


That's why the most successful (based on the number of planet finds) teams have
relied on the so-called wobble method, or radio-velocity technique.


The radial-velocity teams are the most successful, Boss told SPACE.com. They
are a victim of their own success. They are able to get more and more telescope
time, because they can prove to the assignment committees that give out the time
that 'if you give us so many more nights we can probably find you so many more
planets,' Boss said. 


He added, The key bottleneck for finding more planets is simply more time on a
telescope. 


The firsts and superlatives


In addition to finding new worlds, the burgeoning field has achieved many
firsts. 


In 2001, a team led by David Charbonneau of the Harvard-Smithsonian Center for
Astrophysics used the Hubble Space Telescope and NASA's infrared-detecting
Spitzer Space Telescope to detect for the first time the atmosphere of an
extrasolar hot Jupiter called HD 189733b. 


Another hot Jupiter, Upsilon Andromeda b, revealed for the first time an
exoplanet with a temperature variation across its surface: One side has
temperatures rivaling those found deep in a volcano while the other face could
plunge below freezing. 


Superlatives abound as well, with discoveries gaining fame as the windiest,
tiniest, most massive and fastest orbiter. 


Shortest orbital period in catalog: HD 41004 B b completes a full orbit in 1.328
days. 

Longest orbit: HD 154345 b takes 13,100 days to orbit its parent star. 

Lightest planet: Gliese 581 C weighs just five Earth masses. 

Planet organizer


In an effort to keep track of the rapidly increasing list of exoplanets, a group
of astronomers published a catalog of nearby exoplanets within 652 light-years
of Earth in a 2006 issue of the Astrophysical Journal, though they realize
updates will be a must on a routine basis. 


Without question, the catalog presented here will become out of date before it
is printed, the

[meteorite-list] reply-message to P.M. Pelé

2007-06-11 Thread Zelimir Gabelica


Hi Pierre-Marie,

I can read you.
I replied separately right now, the way I also replied your other 2 mails 
you sent me earlier today.

It seems my answers don't reach you The addresses are correct though...

List, thanks for help!

Zelimir



A 15:04 11/06/2007 +0200, Pelé Pierre-Marie a écrit :

Salut Zelimir,

si tu me lis, peux-tu me recontacter par email ?   Tu
dois être débordé en ce moment mais j'ai besoin si
possible d'une table à Ensisheim.

Merci,

Pierre-Marie








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Université de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15

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Re: [meteorite-list] something else to consider [global warming]

Hi,

It's been so long since the validity of the Milankovich
cycles was proven by Imbrie, Hays, Shackleton, Emiliani, 
and others whose names I can't remember (or spell) in the 
1970's, shortly after continental drift was proven too, so
long that a lot of people have forgotten that they WERE 
proven and think they're just one more whacky theory. Nope.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milankovitch_cycles

Malutin Milankovich picked solving the calculation of
these cycles and then the curves of insolation because it
was the most difficult problem then known in science. He
was a young returned war veteran when he started and it
took decades to do the math. No computers were 
available then; it was pencil and paper and ten million 
equations (per year). After he finished with the equations
for the Earth's orbital history, he turned right around and
started in on (and finished) the same task for Mars!

He was widely regarded, at the time, as a scientist who
wasted his life because it was assumed that even if he was 
right, no one could ever prove it. He was close friends with
another scientific outcast everybody thought was completely
crazy, a guy named Alfred Wegener who had the whacky 
notion that continents moved around on the planet's surface.

Just a couple of wild and crazy guys...


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: Jerry [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 10:36 AM
Subject: [meteorite-list] something else to consider [global warming]


http://www.homepage.montana.edu/~geol445/hyperglac/time1/milankov.htm

Then there's the relatively recent study of the cycles of Solar activity 
[Sun Spots] which is poorly understood.
Jerry Flaherty 

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[meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce- human Hammer-

Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
(well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it will hit a
certain person in Illinois...just a joke):


Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,

Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet and then be
sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a Meteorite ever
kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But I always
asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a person? The
Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was very very
well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold? Ore would
nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure everybody
would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the Meteorite,
who would like to own a human killer Hammer? 

best greetings
Andi


We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take anymore of
the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay because cash
is all that is worshipped.

 Mike,

 Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

 With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
 and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
 all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
 collectors.

 And the prices will go down, too.

 But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic impact
 of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
 cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that environmental
 scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater increase in
 carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
 directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
 greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000 years ago
 Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
 event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small compared to
 what we are doing now.

 But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are found due
 to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
 farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the economic
 crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?

 Steve Schoner
 IMCA #4470



 -- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
 could have been spent going back to the moon, building
 a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it could
 have been done with the money we have pissed away in
 Iraq. But hey, look at it this way, Haliburton moved
 to Dubai to be closer to the money, they are taking
 good care of it for us, the taxpayers.
 Enough of things that do not pertain to meteorites
 though, we have all had our say and I will leave this
 topic since I have a meteorite show to attend and then
 meteorites to dig up in the Arctic.
 Michael Farmer



 --- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 So true Mike Farmer.  That is the problem with our
 age.  We want
 everything never taking into consideration what we
 leave those that
 follow us after we are dead and gone.

 They will curse us or thank us for what we do now.

 But to do nothing about global warming now, which is
 a scientifically
 proven fact, pretty much leaves them with a ruined
 world and a curse
 for us.

 (Maybe by then they will have left this planet to
 terraform Mars, and
 mine asteroids (parent bodies of the meteorites we
 love) for their
 resources, all the while looking out into space or
 up into a Martian
 sky at a bright star that was the world we ruined.)

 Steve Schoner.
 #4470

 [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically
 proven or a farce
 Michael Farmer meteoriteguy at yahoo.com
 Sun Jun 10 13:25:59 EDT 2007

 * Previous message: [meteorite-list] Global
 Warming -
 Scientifically proven or a farce
 * Next message: [meteorite-list] Global Warming
 - Scientifically
 proven or a farce
 * Messages sorted by: [ date ] [ thread ] [
 subject ] [ author ]

 Paul, ok, lest say you are the proud winner of that
 bet! Bush got his way, America refused to do it's
 part
 and the oceans only raise 4 feet in the next 10
 years.

 I guess you had better go to Florida/New York
 City/Boston, most of the Gulf Coast, and well, most
 of
 the Island nations in the Pacific. They will be
 gone,

Re: [meteorite-list] Damn weather and classification changes.

2007-06-11 Thread Zelimir Gabelica



Bad luck Marcin!
I hope you made copies of your electronic messages etc.

I did copy them recently and did well because since Friday afternoon, we 
are also again oversaturated with thunderstorms (East of France, Belgium). 
Electricity was cut off (but nothing damaged) for almost the whole last 
week-end in Belgium. I'm just back here in Mulhouse and have hardly time to 
finish some urgent messages (sorry again Jan!) as more storms are anounced 
for tonight. And Ensisheim 2007 really requires night work for the whole 
last rush week.

What weather are we experiencing ?

Glad the LL3.7 became LL3.1 !
 I love my 9.96 g end section and the 4.98 full slice! One of them will be 
displayed next week-end in Ensisheim for the thematic exhibit (odd 
inclusions, textures...).
Is it still S2W2 and how many pieces were found (for the tkw reported of 
900 g) ?


What are you bringing in Ensisheim that is over 100 kg ? Your Mother in law ?
(sorry for that low degree of kidding...)

Btw: weather hot (in the 28°C's), stormy and humid predicted here until 
Friday, then showers and a slight drop of temperatures (in the 23°C's). 
Fair for the Ensisheim dinner-party (where we are at least 85 people!). 
But weather predictions do change (end refine) every day...


Note for the US listees (and related).
When I travel in the US, I learned a simple conversion of °F's to °C's:
Read temperature in °F. Substract 30, divide by 2 and add 10%.

Example: 90°F = 33°C (90-30 = 60; 60/2 = 30; 30 + 10% = 33).

To convert °C to °F, just do the opposite...

Zelimir


A 21:31 11/06/2007 +0200, PolandMET a écrit :

Hi list
My god, saturday I will remember long.
I have sleep like a baby, and in mean time storm comes and first time from 
maybe 20 years it hit our home and killed half of elecronic devices. All 
TV, all phones, notebook and my main computer have big, pretty hole on 
main board :) And now Im wasting my time to turn on my other computers and 
repair internet instead of preparing my stones for Ensisheim.


Anyway I have received some good news from Ted Bunch, NAU.
Everyone who purchased my NWA 4560 LL3.7 could be very happy becouse now 
this meteorite is officialy reclassified as LL3.1. Ted Bunch worked on 
this meteorite for last 3 months.


Several other achondrites are ready , but unfortunatelly they are still 
waiting for their NWA numbers. I only hope that I can make them ready for 
Ensisheim.


Im sure we spend a wonderfull time in Ensisheim.

As a surprize, Im preparing a monster, biggest meteorite that ever leave 
Poland. Its not 10kg, also not 50kg, and not 100kg.

:)

-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.PolandMET.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM +48(607)535 195
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Université de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15

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Re: [meteorite-list] Alaskan and Siberian Mucks

2007-06-11 Thread E.P. Grondine

Hi Paul - 

Thanks for the references to the post war research,
but I think you overstate your case.

Surely no archeological remains from 2 to 3 million
years ago are in the deposits which I refered to, and
which Hibbens examined.

The strata that I refered to did have archaeological
remains. They were also the source for the mega-fauna
ivory that was used commonly in the United States for
the manufacture of billiard balls and piano keys at
the turn of the last century.  Why these mega-fauna
all chose to die at the same time is an interesting
question.

As far as depositional mechanisms goes, I do not
believe that there has been any work done on these
deposits since the discovery of impact mega-tsunami as
a geological process.  Hibben ascribed them to
volcanic activity, and saw volcanic ash.  To my
knowledge, they have never been examined for
impactites; the recent work that was done on the
holocene start impacts was privately funded to the
tune of some $70,000.

I think that ALL of these studies will need to be
re-examined before the questions of depositional
mechanisms is considered settled. 

Finally, you left Alain and Delair out of your list of
cranks. But then as the saying goes, if you can't win
on points, baffle them with BS.

E.P. Grondine
Man and Impact in the Americas

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 11 Jun 2007 08:32:43 -0700 (PDT)
From: Paul [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] The Imaginary Mucks of
Alaska and Siberia
was Arrowheads from NWA
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Message-ID:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1

In the post Arrowheads from NWA, Mr. Grondine wrote:

?The impact that produced the Alaskan and Siberian 
mucks, and altered the north Pacific currents, and the
world's weather, are covered in my book Man and
Impact in the Americas.?

One major problem is that the so-called Alaskan and
Siberian 
mucks exist only in the very vivid imagination of
various 
catastrophists, i.e. Deloria (1997), Hapgood (1970),
and 
Velikovsky (1955). Over the last sixty years, numerous
papers
have shown that the descriptions of the so-called
Alaskan and
Siberian mucks by Hibben (1942, 1946) and Rainey
(1940) are 
grossly incorrect and completely refuted the
interpretations, 
which they have made of their catastrophic origin. 

A typical description of muck is:

In Alaska, for example, thick frozen deposits of 
volcanic ash, silts, sands, boulders, lenticles and 
ribbons of unmelted ice, and countless relics of late 
Pleistocene animals and plants lie jumbled together 
in no discernible order. This amazing deposit, 
usually referred to as 'muck', has been described 
by Dr Rainey as containing: '... enormous numbers 
of frozen bones of extinct animals, such as mammoth, 
mastodon, super bison and horse, as well as brush, 
stumps, moss and freshwater molluscs (281)'.

It has now been proved that such descriptions are
nothing more 
than imaginative fiction, which have been soundly
refuted by 
over 50 years of research and numerous peer-reviewed
papers 
and monographs, which have been published by the
Quaternary 
geologist, who have studied these deposits for
decades.

As proved by numerous published peer-reviewed papers
and 
monographs, including Berger (2003), Bettis et al.
(2003), 
Guthrie (1990), McDowell and Edwards (2001), Muhs et
al. 
(2001, 2003, 2004), Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989),
and 
Westgate et al. (1990), the claim that these deposits
consist 
of  thick frozen deposits of volcanic ash, silts,
sands, boulders, 
lenticles and ribbons of unmelted ice, and countless
relics of 
late Pleistocene animals and plants lie jumbled
together in no 
discernible order is false. Instead, as described in
numerous 
publications, specifically Guthrie (1990), Muhs et al.
(2003), 
Pewe (1955, 1975a, 1975b, 1989), and Westgate et al.
(1990), 
the deposits, which are often referred to as ?Alaskan
muck? 
consist of a well-ordered, layer-cake sequence of
stratigraphic
units containing distinct paleosols and buried forests
with in 
situ tree stumps. As seen in Figures 20 and 29 of Pewe
(1975); 
Figure 4 of Pewe et al. (1997); and the measured
sections of
Westgate et al. (1990), the so-called ?muck? consists
of well-
defined geologic layers, which are only jumbled where
the 
surface has been disturbed by either thermokarst,
landslides, 
solifluction, or some combination of these processes.
The total 
thickness of the Quaternary deposits, which have been
designated 
as ?muck? is only 10 to 20 m (33 to 66 ft) as their
thickest, 
which become thinner upslope.

Satrting with Pewe (1955), Quaternary geologists have
recognized 
the presence of 7 well-defined stratigraphic units,
which the 
deposits that are falsely described as being ?jumbled
together 
in no discernible order?. Some of these stratigraphic
units, i.e. 
the Ready Bullion Formation, Engineer Loess,
Goldstream 
Formation, Gold Hill Loess, and the Fairbanks Loess,
consist
of silt, which have been demonstrated to

Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce- human Hammer-

Hi Martin,
Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed people
but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
(By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose continental
drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
generations).
Best wishes, Michael

on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
 (well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it will hit a
 certain person in Illinois...just a joke):
 
 
 Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,
 
 Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet and then be
 sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
 When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
 Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a Meteorite ever
 kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But I always
 asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a person? The
 Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was very very
 well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
 So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold? Ore would
 nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure everybody
 would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the Meteorite,
 who would like to own a human killer Hammer?
 
 best greetings
 Andi
 
 
 We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.
 
 All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take anymore of
 the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
 We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
 Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.
 
 One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
 wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
 drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay because cash
 is all that is worshipped.
 
 Mike,
 
 Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...
 
 With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
 and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
 all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
 collectors.
 
 And the prices will go down, too.
 
 But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic impact
 of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
 cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that environmental
 scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater increase in
 carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
 directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
 greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000 years ago
 Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
 event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small compared to
 what we are doing now.
 
 But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are found due
 to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
 farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the economic
 crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?
 
 Steve Schoner
 IMCA #4470
 
 
 
 -- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
 could have been spent going back to the moon, building
 a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it could
 have been done with the money we have pissed away in
 Iraq. But hey, look at it this way, Haliburton moved
 to Dubai to be closer to the money, they are taking
 good care of it for us, the taxpayers.
 Enough of things that do not pertain to meteorites
 though, we have all had our say and I will leave this
 topic since I have a meteorite show to attend and then
 meteorites to dig up in the Arctic.
 Michael Farmer
 
 
 
 --- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 So true Mike Farmer.  That is the problem with our
 age.  We want
 everything never taking into consideration what we
 leave those that
 follow us after we are dead and gone.
 
 They will curse us or thank us for what we do now.
 
 But to do nothing about global warming now, which is
 a scientifically
 proven fact, pretty much leaves them with a ruined
 world and a curse
 for us.
 
 (Maybe by then they will have left this planet to
 terraform Mars, and
 mine asteroids (parent bodies of the meteorites we
 love)

Re: [meteorite-list] Damn weather and classification changes.

2007-06-11 Thread PolandMET


Glad the LL3.7 became LL3.1 !
 I love my 9.96 g end section and the 4.98 full slice! One of them will be
displayed next week-end in Ensisheim for the thematic exhibit (odd
inclusions, textures...).
Is it still S2W2 and how many pieces were found (for the tkw reported of
900 g) ?

==
5 stones.
3 first I have bough in Ensisheim 2006 :) and cut there first sample on my 
saw. This was this two lithology stone that was sold out very fast.
Two other, much larger I have from morocco, late 2006. But all 5 specimens 
are the same, thin sections from 3 biggest stones was send to NAU. I have 
send extra slices after Tucson, becouse Ted wanted to make more tests on 
this sample and now I have results.



What are you bringing in Ensisheim that is over 100 kg ? Your Mother in law 
?

(sorry for that low degree of kidding...)


pst,

Btw: weather hot (in the 28°C's), stormy and humid predicted here until
Friday, then showers and a slight drop of temperatures (in the 23°C's).
Fair for the Ensisheim dinner-party (where we are at least 85 people!).
But weather predictions do change (end refine) every day...

==
Zelimir, RAIN, buy some, please.




-[ MARCIN CIMALA ]-[ I.M.C.A.#3667 ]-
http://www.Meteoryt.net [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.PolandMET.com   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.Gao-Guenie.com  GSM +48(607)535 195
[ Member of Polish Meteoritical Society ]

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Meteorite-list mailing list
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
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Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - etc

2007-06-11 Thread Allan Treiman


Burning ice??? Is that in the Bible?
Could they have found some methane clathrate?

   aht

Allan Treiman
Lunar and Planetary Institute
3600 Bay Area Boulevard
Houston TX 77058 USA

281-486-2117
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Jun 11, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:


Hi Martin,
Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed  
people

but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
(By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose  
continental

drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
generations).
Best wishes, Michael

on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED]  
wrote:



Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
(well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it  
will hit a

certain person in Illinois...just a joke):


Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,

Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet  
and then be

sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a  
Meteorite ever
kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But  
I always
asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a  
person? The
Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was  
very very

well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold?  
Ore would
nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure  
everybody
would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the  
Meteorite,

who would like to own a human killer Hammer?

best greetings
Andi


We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take  
anymore of

the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits  
us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would  
try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay  
because cash

is all that is worshipped.


Mike,

Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
collectors.

And the prices will go down, too.

But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic  
impact

of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that  
environmental
scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater  
increase in

carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000  
years ago

Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small  
compared to

what we are doing now.

But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are  
found due

to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the  
economic

crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470



-- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
could have been spent going back to the moon, building
a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it could
have been done with the money we have pissed away in
Iraq. But hey, look at it this way, Haliburton moved
to Dubai to be closer to the money, they are taking
good care of it for us, the taxpayers.
Enough of things that do not pertain to meteorites
though, we have all had our say and I will leave this
topic since I have a meteorite show to attend and then
meteorites to dig up in the Arctic.
Michael Farmer



--- Steve Schoner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


So true Mike Farmer.  That is the problem with our
age.  We want
everything never taking into consideration what we
leave those that
follow us after we are dead and gone.

They will curse us or thank us for what we do now.

But to do nothing about global warming now,

[meteorite-list] Meteor Explodes Over Sri Lanka

2007-06-11 Thread Ron Baalke


http://www.colombopage.com/archive_07/June11135831JV.html

Mysterious noise creates a tense situation in Sri Lanka
Colombo Page
June 11, 2007

Colombo: A tense situation was created in some areas in the 
Gampaha and Kurunegala districts last night following a 
mysterious noise similar to an explosion.

However later it was revealed that the noise and the light 
could be from a falling meteorite of some magnitude. The 
Arthur C. Clark Center also claimed that the sound may 
have been caused by a meteorite explosion.

Police and the military confirmed there had been a loud 
sound of an explosion and a simultaneous glow in the sky 
but the cause of the noise is not known yet.

--

http://www.dailymirror.lk/2007/06/12/front/02.asp

Sunday night blast - it was a meteoroid
By Yohan Perera
Daily Mirror
June 12, 2007

A meteorite explosion in the air above Sri Lanka rocked many 
areas on Sunday night and caused panic among people who 
feared it was another bomb blast or air attack.

The Astronomy Unit of Colombo University and Arthur C. Clarke 
Centre confirmed the loud bang heard on Sunday night was a 
meteorite explosion.

According to Colombo University senior lecturer Chandana 
Jayaratne the explosion had taken place over Nattandiya and 
the size of the meteoroid was around one meter. It had 
exploded in the air, illuminating the night sky, he said. 
Eyewitnesses confirmed they saw the night sky being 
illuminated with the explosion.

The professor said the telephone lines in Andiambalama and 
Mirigama areas had undergone disturbance at the time of the 
explosion. This usually happens when a meteorite draws 
iron from the air, he explained.

Professor Jayaratne said this was a usual phenomenon as many 
meteorites fall throughout the year. The astronomy unit of 
the Colombo University is reported to have a large 
collection of meteorite samples collected from many parts 
of the country.

Meanwhile Arthur C. Clarke Centre said it had received from 
many areas information on the explosion and the sighting of 
a bright object streaking through the night sky. A Centre 
spokesman said a moving bright object was seen from as far 
as Hambantota. The sound of the explosion had been heard in 
Mirigama, Kuliyapitiya, Bingiriya and Kotadeniyawa, he said.

According to the spokesman there may have been a meteorite 
shower which caused several explosions. The Centre is to 
send its research teams to Nattandiya and Kuliyapitiya 
areas.

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[meteorite-list] Geologists to Name 'New' Impact Crater in Montana after Havre Couple

2007-06-11 Thread Ron Baalke


http://www.havredailynews.com/articles/2007/06/11/local_headlines/local.txt

Geologists to name new meteorite crater after Havre couple
Annette Hayden 
Havre Daily News (Montana) 
June 11, 2007

Two geologists from Washington traveled to north-central Montana last
week after an accidental discovery of what they believe is a new
meteorite impact crater, located just southeast of Thornhill Butte. The
Havre Daily caught up with the two St. Martin University students at
Havre's Fifth Street Grind and Short Stop Thursday. The discoverers were
on their way to a local laundry to dry their clothes, drenched in the
previous day's rain, before heading back out in their home-built buggy,
the Mule designed for rugged terrain. Joe D'Alelio and Gabriel
Mainwaring of Shelton, Wash. Said they had been using Google Earth to
locate fossil hunting grounds when dumb luck led the satellite view to
scan over a formation familiar, yet very exciting. We zoomed in and saw
it had the form of a meteorite impact crater, D'Alelio said. We
checked with the USGS (United States Geological Survey) and there was no
record of it. The only one they have is south of the Missouri River
about 200 miles. This one is located north of the DY Junction (Highways
66 and 191). You can see it from Highway 66. We loaded up the Mule and
headed out Monday and camped when we got to the crater. We studied the
rim, the bowl and surrounding area and took samples. Much like Daniel
Moreau Barringer, who proved the famous Meteor Crater in Arizona in
1902, D'Alelio and Mainwaring said they had not spent a full day before
they knew the crater had been caused by meteorite impact. It's about a
mile wide, rim to rim and the sandstone layers are upside down,
D'Alelio said. The white is on top from the impact. You can measure the
red sandstone to see how thick it is and it tells you the age. We are
guessing it hit between 10,000 to 50,000 years ago, which is relatively
new. We collected samples of the rocks and we'll take them back to the
University of Washington to analyze. We will be looking for basically
two things. First is the presence of iridium, an element only found in
meteorites. The second thing is when a meteorite hits the ground the
heat and pressure cause what is known as 'shocked quartz.' It changes
the crystalline structure, so we will check for that. Then we will call
the USGS and name the crater Bender Crater, for Les and Karen Bender
(owners of Havre's Bender Wild Game Processing). D'Alelio and
Mainwaring had completed their site research Wednesday and thought to do
a little site seeing around the area before heading home, when they
found the Mule's catalytic converter had become disengaged from the
exhaust pipe. It was Les and Karen Bender who became their rescuers. We
tried to fix the Mule with a tin can and a hose clamp, Mainwaring said.
Some people stopped and we asked them where the nearest town was. We
showed them our photos and pointed out where the crater was. Les and
Karen said they had driven by there thousands of times and had never
seen it, but once we pointed it out they could see. We told them we had
to get going, but then the Mule wouldn't go. The catalytic converter was
still leaking. The Benders ended up towing us all the way to Havre, 96
miles. They fed us dinner and let us sleep in their home for the night.
My wife is having a baby in September and Karen even gave me a baby
blanket she had made. They were a real blessing to us. D'Alelio said
They were so fantastic to us, a real testament to the people of
Montana, Gabe is planning to move here now. He's going to go home and
convince his wife. And we decided if this crater proves out, we Are
going to name it Bender Crater in honor of them. Les even bought the
parts to fix the Mule. They were just amazing to us. D'Alelio and
Mainwaring said they planned to do a little gold panning in Landusky
then scope out another possible crater site, before returning home
today. We will defiantly let you know the outcome of the research,
they said. We can only say it is a possible impact crater at this
point, but we feel certain and we think there are probably several more
around this area, but we don't want to say where just yet. Meteorite
craters pull in tourists There is something about human beings' total
lack of control over space and its affects on Earth that inspires great
curiosity, and in turn tourism. One example is the Barringer Meteorite
Crater (also known as Meteor Crater) is a gigantic hole in the middle
of the Arizona sandstone desert. The rim of smashed and jumbled
boulders, some the size of buildings, rises 150 feet above the level of
the surrounding plain. The crater itself is nearly a mile wide, and 570
feet deep. The crater, first proven in the early 1900s to have been
caused by a meteorite crashing into Earth, is today a major tourist
attraction. The Meteor Crater Visitor Center includes displays on the
never-ending process of impacts and collisions in the solar system; an

Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

on 6/11/07 2:11 PM, Allan Treiman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Burning ice??? Is that in the Bible?
-
One of the 7 plagues of Egypt - Moses was one of those
by any means necessary dudes. They were being held
as slaves, you know.
Lets see, they had:
frogs
grasshoppers
Nile turned red
Rained burning ice   couple of others, including
the cincher, which was the death of the first born son of
every house - which is the basis of Passover,
when the Jews painted their doors with the blood
of a lamb to insure protection from same. I can understand
if you didn't read the book, but didn't you see the movie?!!
They show it on TV every Easter.
Michael

 Could they have found some methane clathrate?
 
   aht
 
 Allan Treiman
 Lunar and Planetary Institute
 3600 Bay Area Boulevard
 Houston TX 77058 USA
 
 281-486-2117
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 
 
 On Jun 11, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:
 
 Hi Martin,
 Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed
 people
 but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
 provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
 of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
 believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
 Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
 the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
 A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
 (By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose
 continental
 drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
 being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
 generations).
 Best wishes, Michael
 
 on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
 (well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it
 will hit a
 certain person in Illinois...just a joke):
 
 
 Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,
 
 Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet
 and then be
 sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
 When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
 Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a
 Meteorite ever
 kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But
 I always
 asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a
 person? The
 Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was
 very very
 well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
 So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold?
 Ore would
 nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure
 everybody
 would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
 Meteorite,
 who would like to own a human killer Hammer?
 
 best greetings
 Andi
 
 
 We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.
 
 All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take
 anymore of
 the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
 We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
 Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.
 
 One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits
 us and
 wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would
 try and
 drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay
 because cash
 is all that is worshipped.
 
 Mike,
 
 Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...
 
 With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
 and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
 all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
 collectors.
 
 And the prices will go down, too.
 
 But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic
 impact
 of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
 cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that
 environmental
 scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater
 increase in
 carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
 directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
 greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000
 years ago
 Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
 event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small
 compared to
 what we are doing now.
 
 But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are
 found due
 to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
 farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the
 economic
 crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?
 
 Steve Schoner
 IMCA #4470
 
 
 
 -- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
 could have been spent going back to the moon, building
 a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it could
 have been done with the money we

[meteorite-list] human Hammer-

Hi Andreas,
Ethics shmesics, if a meteorite kills someone, I want it!
(I have always regretted not getting that OLD samurai sward
I had the opportunity to buy in the 1960s. I was freaked out
because I could FEEL the death it caused when I held it. I
was a huge Mafuni/Kurasawa freak - still am. I think the
movies they made together are some of the best ever.
Anyway, I could have bought that sward for $125! That
sucker is worth AT LEAST $20,000 today.
Best wishes, Michael

on 6/11/07 2:23 PM, Andreas Gren at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi Michael,
 this was a ethic question about meteorite collecting, not an ad , sorry, :)
 thanks for your clear statement.
 You are absolutely right , I should have written , no person was killed in
 recent times. 
 best
 Andi
 
 -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
 Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Michael
 L Blood
 Gesendet: Montag, 11. Juni 2007 22:41
 An: Martin Altmann; Meteorite List
 Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - Scientifically proven ora
 farce- human Hammer-
 
 Hi Martin,
   Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed people
 but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
 provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
 of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
 believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
 Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
 the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
   A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
   (By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose continental
 drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
 being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
 generations).
   Best wishes, Michael
 
 on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
 (well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it will hit
 a
 certain person in Illinois...just a joke):
 
 
 Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,
 
 Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet and then
 be
 sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
 When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
 Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a Meteorite
 ever
 kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But I always
 asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a person? The
 Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was very very
 well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
 So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold? Ore would
 nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure
 everybody
 would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
 Meteorite,
 who would like to own a human killer Hammer?
 
 best greetings
 Andi
 
 
 We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.
 
 All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take anymore of
 the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
 We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
 Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.
 
 One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits us and
 wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would try and
 drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay because cash
 is all that is worshipped.
 
 Mike,
 
 Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...
 
 With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
 and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
 all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
 collectors.
 
 And the prices will go down, too.
 
 But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic impact
 of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
 cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that environmental
 scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater increase in
 carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
 directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
 greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000 years ago
 Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
 event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small compared to
 what we are doing now.
 
 But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are found due
 to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
 farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the economic
 crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?
 
 Steve Schoner
 IMCA #4470
 
 
 
 -- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that

Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce- human Hammer-

2007-06-11 Thread Mark Crawford

Do you really need to ask the question?  There's no question that it 
would be bought, sold, and that the provenance would increase the value.


Would I want to own a sample?  I'm not sure*.  I'd like to think not, 
but I suspect I'd start asking questions like can you guarantee that 
/this fragment/ wasn't the one which did the damage?  I imagine others 
would ask for a guarantee that it /did/ do the damage (I think Michael 
just proved that point between me starting and sending this note!)  :-)


Mark

*I'm lying.  Of course I would.  But I'd still want an 'innocent' 
fragment...


Martin Altmann wrote:


But I always
asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a person? 
So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold? Ore would

nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure everybody
would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the Meteorite,
who would like to own a human killer Hammer? 
 



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[meteorite-list] Globe Trotting From Global Warming Topic

2007-06-11 Thread Greg Hupe


Hello Listees,

Just a quickie note to say that I am even more happy that I will be 
traveling to Europe very soon. First for my first time to attend the 
Ensisheim Show, then to spend a few weeks doing other things and then, 
Getting Away From This Global Warming thread. Have been dreading the 
thread for a couple days now. After tomorrow I will be unplugged for a month 
so no emails, no cell phones...


See all who will be at the Show!!

Best regards,
Greg


Greg Hupe
The Hupe Collection
NaturesVault (eBay)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.LunarRock.com
IMCA 3163




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Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce- human Hammer-

Not I was asking the question,
Andi was - I was only forwarding on his behalf.

...I could organize some cow-brain, if you want to frame it in a riker with
your Valera...

If I had a hammer lalalala lala la laah.

Other question, would somebody buy impact pits?
I remember, that the finders of Neuschwanstein-2, dug around and under the
impact pit, and transported the whole pit in a piece of ground down from the
mountains,
My English is leaving me...how to describe the excavation of a hole I
mean the hole existed, the dug and extracted the hole

Arrrgh, I better stop.

martin




-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: Mark Crawford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Gesendet: Dienstag, 12. Juni 2007 00:01
An: Martin Altmann
Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] WG: Global Warming - Scientifically proven or
a farce- human Hammer-

Do you really need to ask the question?  There's no question that it 
would be bought, sold, and that the provenance would increase the value.

Would I want to own a sample?  I'm not sure*.  I'd like to think not, 
but I suspect I'd start asking questions like can you guarantee that 
/this fragment/ wasn't the one which did the damage?  I imagine others 
would ask for a guarantee that it /did/ do the damage (I think Michael 
just proved that point between me starting and sending this note!)  :-)

Mark

*I'm lying.  Of course I would.  But I'd still want an 'innocent' 
fragment...

Martin Altmann wrote:

But I always
asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a person? 
So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold? Ore would
nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure everybody
would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
Meteorite,
who would like to own a human killer Hammer? 
  


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Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

Give me The Rain Of Frogs anyday!

Sterling
(PS: Toads will do if you're short of frogs)
---
- Original Message - 
From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Allan Treiman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

on 6/11/07 2:11 PM, Allan Treiman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Burning ice??? Is that in the Bible?
-
One of the 7 plagues of Egypt - Moses was one of those
by any means necessary dudes. They were being held
as slaves, you know.
Lets see, they had:
frogs
grasshoppers
Nile turned red
Rained burning ice   couple of others, including
the cincher, which was the death of the first born son of
every house - which is the basis of Passover,
when the Jews painted their doors with the blood
of a lamb to insure protection from same. I can understand
if you didn't read the book, but didn't you see the movie?!!
They show it on TV every Easter.
Michael

 Could they have found some methane clathrate?

   aht

 Allan Treiman
 Lunar and Planetary Institute
 3600 Bay Area Boulevard
 Houston TX 77058 USA

 281-486-2117
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

 On Jun 11, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:

 Hi Martin,
 Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed
 people
 but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
 provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
 of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
 believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
 Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
 the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
 A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
 (By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose
 continental
 drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
 being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
 generations).
 Best wishes, Michael

 on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
 (well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it
 will hit a
 certain person in Illinois...just a joke):

 Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,

 Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet
 and then be
 sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
 When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
 Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a
 Meteorite ever
 kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But
 I always
 asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a
 person? The
 Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was
 very very
 well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
 So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold?
 Ore would
 nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure
 everybody
 would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
 Meteorite,
 who would like to own a human killer Hammer?

 best greetings
 Andi

 We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

 All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take
 anymore of
 the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
 We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
 Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

 One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits
 us and
 wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would
 try and
 drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay
 because cash
 is all that is worshipped.

 Mike,

 Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

 With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
 and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
 all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
 collectors.

 And the prices will go down, too.

 But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic
 impact
 of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
 cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that
 environmental
 scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater
 increase in
 carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
 directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
 greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000
 years ago
 Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
 event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small
 compared to
 what we are doing now.

 But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are
 found due
 to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
 farmlands... But

Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 17:32:10 -0500, you wrote:


Give me The Rain Of Frogs anyday!


I believe that you mean freedom amphibians.
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Re: [meteorite-list] So many parent bodies, so few samples

Hi, Darren, List,

 exact solar system analogs and we wouldn't know it because
 we haven't been able to take data for long
 enough to actually find their planetary systems...

I'd like to be wrong, but I think it's going to be
a long wait. Let's say you're dozens of light years
away from us and luckily, you're in the plane of the
planets. You set up your automatic giant telescope
system and wait for the Earth to cross in front of
The Sun.

The Earth is only 1/100th of the diameter of the
Sun and so only blocks 1/1th of the Sun's light.
So you're waiting for up to 365 days for the Sun to
dim by 0.01%. Of course, there are sunspot clumps
that dim the Sun that much but they take days to
cross the Sun. So, you can distinguish between
a big sunspot and a terrestrial planet no matter how
far out it is.

The Earth will only take less than thirteen hours to
cross the Sun's disc when viewed from far away.
But the problem of spotting the Earth is nothing
when compared to catching Mercury! Mercury will
only dim the Sun by about a 1/10th of the amount
the Earth will, or 0.001% for less than eight hours.
Good luck, alien planet hunters! Fortunately for you,
there's bigger game to hunt.

Yes, it's the Solar System's Big Boy -- Jupiter --
that catches all the attention. It will dim the Sun by
almost 1% and the dimming transit will last 30 hours.
Jupiter will be the Catch of the Day for an alien planet
hunter. But it may not be the first to be discovered
because our poor alien will have to wait for up to
almost 12 years for Jupiter to show up in his 'scope...
the first time. Just like our planet hunters, They will
go through a few full cycles of the whole system,
to be sure. That will kill most of a century.

I hope we're worth it.

Since the technique requires only big telescopes
(in orbit would be nice), simple automated machinery,
and LOTS of patience... Well, OK, you need to be near
the plane defined by the planetary plane of the solar
system -- that's about 3% of the stars within a given
volume. How many is that?

Well, there's about 14,000 stars with 100 light years
(3% = 420). Hipparchos says 22,010 stars within 326
light years (3% = 660). There are 3919 Sun-like stars
(spectral type F8 through K3) within 100 light years.
These are stars very much like the Sun; if you were
standing on Earth-like planet (and were not distracted
by being on an alien planet), it would be indistinguishable
from the Sun at first glance.

Of those 3919 stars, about 120 of them are in a place
where they can spot Our Solar System EASY -- it's like
shooting planets in a barrel... or something like that. Out
to 200 light years, that is A THOUSAND Sun-like stars
(and their planets and their aliens) that can easily find
us with such simple means as these.

With a big orbital telescope farm and the steadfastness
we all need, detection within 1,000 light years is no problem.
There are 120,000 Sun-like stars in that volume well-placed
to find and catalog our Solar System in detail. No doubt the
systems that have suitable planets in what They think is the
habitable zone are referred to Their Big Eye scope for some
spectroscopy and visualization. Perhaps suitable candidates
go on the list for a light-sail fly-by probe.

Let's all be on our best behavior. Who knows? THEY
may be watching. Or is it THEM?


Sterling K. Webb
--
- Original Message - 
From: Darren Garrison [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 2:52 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] So many parent bodies, so few samples


http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/070611_mm_planet_floodgates.html

Trickle of Planet Discoveries Becomes a Flood
By Jeanna Bryner
Staff Writer
posted: 11 June 2007
07:10 am ET

Alien worlds, once hidden from knowledge, are now being discovered in 
droves,
stunning astronomers with their unique features and sheer numbers. The
discoveries are so common that more and more don't even get reported outside
scientific circles.


Take the announcement at the end of May of a massive planet, dubbed TrES-3, 
that
zips around its star in an amazingly rapid 31 hours, giving the planet a 
1.3-day
year. Astronomers issued a press release, but you might not have heard about 
it
because the discovery was so overshadowed by other planet announcements and
barely received news coverage.


It's pretty routine now, said Alan Boss, a planet formation theorist at 
the
Carnegie Institution of Washington. Most planets that are found are not 
deemed
worthy of a press release because they are sort of becoming 'one more 
planet.'


The total is now more than 200 extrasolar planets confirmed. And this is the 
tip
of the iceberg in planet finds. Astronomers have more tools than ever, and
technology is so advanced that planet discovery has become almost mundane.


The regularity of planet finds, luckily, is buffered by the wild variety

Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

2007-06-11 Thread tett


Hummm,  there were 10 plagues


Nile River turned into a river of blood
Frogs
Dust turning to lice
Biting flies
Animals dieing
Boils and Sores
Hailstones
Locusts
3 days darkness
Plague on the first born.

Cheers,

Mike Tettenborn










- Original Message - 
From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Allan Treiman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues


on 6/11/07 2:11 PM, Allan Treiman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Burning ice??? Is that in the Bible?

-
One of the 7 plagues of Egypt - Moses was one of those
by any means necessary dudes. They were being held
as slaves, you know.
Lets see, they had:
frogs
grasshoppers
Nile turned red
Rained burning ice   couple of others, including
the cincher, which was the death of the first born son of
every house - which is the basis of Passover,
when the Jews painted their doors with the blood
of a lamb to insure protection from same. I can understand
if you didn't read the book, but didn't you see the movie?!!
They show it on TV every Easter.
   Michael


Could they have found some methane clathrate?

  aht

Allan Treiman
Lunar and Planetary Institute
3600 Bay Area Boulevard
Houston TX 77058 USA

281-486-2117
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Jun 11, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:


Hi Martin,
Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed
people
but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
(By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose
continental
drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
generations).
Best wishes, Michael

on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:


Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
(well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it
will hit a
certain person in Illinois...just a joke):


Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,

Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet
and then be
sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a
Meteorite ever
kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But
I always
asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a
person? The
Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was
very very
well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold?
Ore would
nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure
everybody
would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
Meteorite,
who would like to own a human killer Hammer?

best greetings
Andi


We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our children.

All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take
anymore of
the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic eruptions and
Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits
us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would
try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay
because cash
is all that is worshipped.


Mike,

Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less ice,
and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just imagine
all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available to us
collectors.

And the prices will go down, too.

But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic
impact
of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that
environmental
scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater
increase in
carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000
years ago
Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small
compared to
what we are doing now.

But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are
found due
to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
farmlands... But the

Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or afarce

2007-06-11 Thread Bruce Yankewitz



(1)  I find it notable that most (not all) of the posts in favor of 
human-caused global warming have tended toward the emotional and 
feelings-based (some rising to the level of hysteria), whereas most (not 
all) of the skeptics' posts have been cool, calculated, scientific analyses. 
 I don't say it proves anything, I only say it's notable.


(2) Nice to know all of these recent players re global warming and plagues 
and mucks will never, ever again scream about anyone ELSE posting off-topic  
-   I mean, they wouldn't have that much nerve, would they?!  :)


Bruce

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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or afarce

2007-06-11 Thread Greg Hupe

Gee, lets take a poll to see where most of the 
Globally-Warmed-Plague-Infested-Off-Topic-Posters are from to see if that 
is a region the rest of us should avoid in our travels ;-) I'd sure hate to 
catch part of that plague that causes ADD-Like compulsive typing and sending 
of posts...


- Original Message - 
From: Bruce Yankewitz [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 7:30 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or 
afarce





(1)  I find it notable that most (not all) of the posts in favor of
human-caused global warming have tended toward the emotional and
feelings-based (some rising to the level of hysteria), whereas most (not
all) of the skeptics' posts have been cool, calculated, scientific 
analyses.

 I don't say it proves anything, I only say it's notable.

(2) Nice to know all of these recent players re global warming and plagues
and mucks will never, ever again scream about anyone ELSE posting 
off-topic

-   I mean, they wouldn't have that much nerve, would they?!  :)

Bruce

_
Don't miss your chance to WIN $10,000 and other great prizes from 
Microsoft

Office Live http://clk.atdmt.com/MRT/go/aub0540003042mrt/direct/01/









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Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

2007-06-11 Thread Darryl Pitt



oy.

it's ten plagues--not seven; burning ice (nice touch) would have made  
it eleven.




On Jun 11, 2007, at 5:45 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:


on 6/11/07 2:11 PM, Allan Treiman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



Burning ice??? Is that in the Bible?


-
One of the 7 plagues of Egypt - Moses was one of those
by any means necessary dudes. They were being held
as slaves, you know.
Lets see, they had:
frogs
grasshoppers
Nile turned red
Rained burning ice   couple of others, including
the cincher, which was the death of the first born son of
every house - which is the basis of Passover,
when the Jews painted their doors with the blood
of a lamb to insure protection from same. I can understand
if you didn't read the book, but didn't you see the movie?!!
They show it on TV every Easter.
Michael



Could they have found some methane clathrate?

  aht

Allan Treiman
Lunar and Planetary Institute
3600 Bay Area Boulevard
Houston TX 77058 USA

281-486-2117
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



On Jun 11, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:



Hi Martin,
Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed
people
but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
(By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose
continental
drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
generations).
Best wishes, Michael

on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:



Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
(well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it
will hit a
certain person in Illinois...just a joke):


Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,

Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet
and then be
sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a
Meteorite ever
kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But
I always
asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a
person? The
Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was
very very
well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold?
Ore would
nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure
everybody
would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
Meteorite,
who would like to own a human killer Hammer?

best greetings
Andi


We are a society that starves our grandchildren to feed our  
children.


All the signs are there to prove that Mother Earth cannot take
anymore of
the pollution and the destruction we throw at her.
We are seeing increasing numbers of Tsunami's, Volcanic  
eruptions and

Earthquakes even here in England we are experiencing this.

One really sad thing I see is one day an Asteroid comes and hits
us and
wipes out half the planet I see unfortunately some humans would
try and
drag the remnants of it away and attempt to sell it on Ebay
because cash
is all that is worshipped.



Mike,

Look at the positive side of this for our hobby and business...

With Global Warming (that some doubt) the Arctic will have less  
ice,
and our grass and farmlands lands will become deserts.  Just  
imagine
all the new meteorites that will become exposed and available  
to us

collectors.

And the prices will go down, too.

But all of these benefits will be far outweighed by the economic
impact
of Global Warming that the Republican Bushites doubt.  A natural
cycle, some say, but look at the ice in the Arctic that
environmental
scientists are coring.  It certainly shows a vastly greater
increase in
carbon dioxide emissions over the last 150 years that corresponds
directly to human activity during our Industrial Revolution.  The
greatest increase in 900,000 years.  And just think, 600,000
years ago
Yellowstone caldera supervolcano erupted, a brief yet catastrophic
event for the entire earth.  It's overall impact was small
compared to
what we are doing now.

But back to meteorites...   The prices will drop as more are
found due
to the melting of Arctic ice, desertfication of our grass and
farmlands... But the question is... Who will buy them once the
economic
crunch of Global Warming hits our pocket books?

Steve Schoner
IMCA #4470



-- Michael Farmer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Steve, not likely in our lifetimes, the money that
could have been spent going back to the moon, building
a permant base, then going to Mars, all of it

Re: [meteorite-list] 11 plagues

2007-06-11 Thread LITIG8NSHARK

Let's not forget my Ex.  That makes 11.  ;-)  Just kidding...all my Ex's live 
in splendor.
 
Paul



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Re: [meteorite-list] 11 plagues

2007-06-11 Thread Mark


ah, but ex-mother-in-laws, now there's a plague for the working man
- Original Message - 
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com

Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 8:34 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 11 plagues


Let's not forget my Ex.  That makes 11.  ;-)  Just kidding...all my Ex's 
live

in splendor.

Paul



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http://www.aol.com.

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Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues

Darryl (and the Plague Interest Group),

In the movie, the hailstones are burning
without being consumed (a well-known
stage trick using mixture of carbon disulfide
and carbon tetrachloride that burns impressively
but is ice-cold). As in the movie, so in The Script:

Ex 9,23:
And Moses stretched forth his rod toward heaven:
and the LORD sent thunder and hail,
and the fire ran along upon the ground;
and the LORD rained hail upon the land of Egypt.
Ex, 9,24:
So there was hail, and fire mingled with the hail,
very grievous, such as there was none like it
in all the land of Egypt since it became a nation.
Ex 9,25:
And the hail smote throughout all the land of Egypt
all that was in the field, both man and beast;
and the hail smote every herb of the field,
and brake every tree of the field.

The rain of meteorites that kills many of the five
armies of the Amorites does not come until

Joshua 10,11:
And it came to pass, as they fled from before Israel,
and were in the going down to Bethhoron,
that the LORD cast down great stones from heaven
upon them unto Azekah, and they died:
they were more which died with hailstones
than they whom the children of Israel slew with the sword.

Now, if a meteorite was cold enough to become
totally covered with rime ice, would they have
called it a hailstone?


Sterling K. Webb

- Original Message - 
From: tett [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Allan Treiman 
[EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List 
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues


Hummm,  there were 10 plagues


Nile River turned into a river of blood
Frogs
Dust turning to lice
Biting flies
Animals dieing
Boils and Sores
Hailstones
Locusts
3 days darkness
Plague on the first born.

Cheers,

Mike Tettenborn










- Original Message - 
From: Michael L Blood [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Allan Treiman [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Meteorite List
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] 7 plagues


on 6/11/07 2:11 PM, Allan Treiman at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Burning ice??? Is that in the Bible?
-
One of the 7 plagues of Egypt - Moses was one of those
by any means necessary dudes. They were being held
as slaves, you know.
Lets see, they had:
frogs
grasshoppers
Nile turned red
Rained burning ice   couple of others, including
the cincher, which was the death of the first born son of
every house - which is the basis of Passover,
when the Jews painted their doors with the blood
of a lamb to insure protection from same. I can understand
if you didn't read the book, but didn't you see the movie?!!
They show it on TV every Easter.
Michael

 Could they have found some methane clathrate?

   aht

 Allan Treiman
 Lunar and Planetary Institute
 3600 Bay Area Boulevard
 Houston TX 77058 USA

 281-486-2117
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]



 On Jun 11, 2007, at 3:41 PM, Michael L Blood wrote:

 Hi Martin,
 Actually, many meteorites are reported to have killed
 people
 but none I know of that are available or close to having a solid
 provenience. One was discussed at length on the list just a couple
 of months ago - some Roman officer and a bunch of his men. I
 believe the Bible has more than one incident reported as well.
 Hell, I would like to have one of the frogs in formaldehyde from
 the 7 plagues of Egypt, not to mention the burning ice.
 A documented KILLER meteorite? I would buy all I could!
 (By the way, Dr. Deits, one of the first to propose
 continental
 drift in the early 1900s was quoted as saying he wanted to die
 being struck by a meteorite, then fossilized and recovered by future
 generations).
 Best wishes, Michael

 on 6/11/07 1:09 PM, Martin Altmann at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:

 Forwarded from Andi Gren, who doesn't come through neither
 (well Andi, at least I would pay a good price for that L6, if it
 will hit a
 certain person in Illinois...just a joke):


 Hi Tim , List , all involved in this interesting treat,

 Your suggestion about the Asteroid wiping out half of the planet
 and then be
 sold on e bay brings me back to Meteorites.
 When I have seen the first time a picture from the Lady hit by the
 Sylacauga Meteorite, I was happy to know it's not reported a
 Meteorite ever
 kills a person. It makes our hobby in some way more peaceful. But
 I always
 asking my self what would happen if a Meteorite would kill a
 person? The
 Hammers and Cow killers are well paid and I know Sylacauga was
 very very
 well paid at a meteorite auction this year at the Tucson show.
 So would the Meteorite be the most expensive L6 ever been sold?
 Ore would
 nobody like to own a slice of a human killer hammer? Ok, I'm sure
 everybody
 would agree an impact kit is out of respect, but what's about the
 Meteorite,
 who would like to own a human killer Hammer?

 best greetings
 Andi


 We

Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or afarce

2007-06-11 Thread LITIG8NSHARK

Good evening Folks,

Not wanting to intentionally stir the pot of angst, I won't share my 
opinions regarding the validity of the global warming theory..in great part 
because it conflicts with the beliefs of roughly half of the List and, 
arguably, 
neither extreme (entirely pro or con) position is capable of clear and 
convincing scientific proof at this stage.  And also, because, in greater part, 
I will 
admit that I am truly uncertain which argument has greater credibility.

I would submit two widely held, and generally accepted, scientific theorems 
to consider before taking sides in this debate:
1.  Entropy
2.  Perpetual Motion

Best regards,

Paul Martyn
Savannah GA



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Re: [meteorite-list] moon

2007-06-11 Thread M come Meteorite Meteorites

and analysis? Or is type the moroccan find in Verona
Show continue to say have a lunar and even if is a
Stannern type eucrite?

Matteo

--- azrou mohamed [EMAIL PROTECTED] ha scritto:

 Hello friends and list
  i hope everyone is fine. I just wanna inform you
 that i have small stone
 from the moon. Its wieght is 16 gram. If someone
 interested contact me out
 of list to show you picture and the price. Best to
 all.
 Ait Ouzrou Mohamed
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M come Meteorite - Matteo Chinellato
Via Triestina 126/A - 30173 - TESSERA, VENEZIA, ITALY
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sale Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.it 
Collection Site: http://www.mcomemeteorite.info
MSN Messanger: spacerocks at hotmail.com
EBAY.COM:http://members.ebay.com/aboutme/mcomemeteorite/


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Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite-list Digest, Vol 43, Issue 11

2007-06-11 Thread falling_star_woman

Greensburg Meteorite Headed for Wichita .

Good to hear!  

I may have missed the post - but have they located any of the other meteorites 
in the collection?

Pamela Shireman__
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[meteorite-list] Fusion Crust - Different Shades of Color

2007-06-11 Thread greg stanley

Hi List:
   
  I have a question regarding different shades of fusion crusts.  I realize 
that they are black, but I have read that some are greenish (lunar stones) or 
purplish (CMs) or brownish in some cases.  
   
  Are the different shades in the fusion crust produced from the mineralogy, or 
perhaps something else?  I remember reading that Aubites (I think) have a 
purplish or maroon crust, and I think it said something about being Calcuim 
rich.
   
  If anyone can expand on this, I would really appreciate it.
   
  Much Thanks,
   
  Greg S.

 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news (2)

2007-06-11 Thread Zelimir Gabelica

Yes Matthias, but only good wine would fit without damage. If it starts to 
turn to vinager, then it perhaps starts to remove rust from irons but 
possibly also starts to do some harm to the iron itself.

Pinot Noir could be a good compromise.

Weather forecast for next week, slightly refined:

Mulhouse: Fri, Sat, Sun: showers, max 23°C, min 14°C
Colmar: Fri: scattered thunderstorms, 27°C. Sat  Sun: 26°C, scattered showers.

As Ensisheim is about in between Mulhouse and Colmar, I'd love to predict 
something in between, thus, say, the Colmar high temperatures and showers 
as much scattered as possible. I'll do my best to discuss with the friendly 
skies...


Let's wait for next Monday predictions. I'll send you the forcast.

Best,

Zelimir


A 01:26 08/06/2007 +0200, Matthias Bärmann a écrit :

Thank you, dear Zelimir, for such a great service! We
even got the weather forecast for this weekend. Only one point of criticism:
Showers not excluded? And what's about the delicate irons? If you'd be so
kind to change the rain to Pinot noir, would be great. Concerning my
personal experience good meteorites and a good redwine fit together 
breathtakingly ;-)


Looking forward to seeing you and all of you soon,

Matthias Baermann


Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
Université de Haute Alsace
ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
3, Rue A. Werner,
F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
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Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news (2)

2007-06-11 Thread Matthias Bärmann

Well, Zelimir, it surely wouldn't do justice to the wonderful Vin d'Alsace to 
expect the Pinot noir to reveal the iron's Widmannstaetten pattern ;-)

My best, Matthias
  - Original Message - 
  From: Zelimir Gabelica 
  To: Matthias Bärmann ; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com 
  Cc: Jean-Marie Blosser ; Dominique Velut 
  Sent: Friday, June 08, 2007 11:38 AM
  Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Ensisheim last news (2)

  Yes Matthias, but only good wine would fit without damage. If it starts to 
turn to vinager, then it perhaps starts to remove rust from irons but possibly 
also starts to do some harm to the iron itself.
  Pinot Noir could be a good compromise. 

  Weather forecast for next week, slightly refined:

  Mulhouse: Fri, Sat, Sun: showers, max 23°C, min 14°C
  Colmar: Fri: scattered thunderstorms, 27°C. Sat  Sun: 26°C, scattered 
showers.

  As Ensisheim is about in between Mulhouse and Colmar, I'd love to predict 
something in between, thus, say, the Colmar high temperatures and showers as 
much scattered as possible. I'll do my best to discuss with the friendly 
skies...

  Let's wait for next Monday predictions. I'll send you the forcast.

  Best,

  Zelimir

  A 01:26 08/06/2007 +0200, Matthias Bärmann a écrit :

Thank you, dear Zelimir, for such a great service! We
even got the weather forecast for this weekend. Only one point of criticism:
Showers not excluded? And what's about the delicate irons? If you'd be so
kind to change the rain to Pinot noir, would be great. Concerning my
personal experience good meteorites and a good redwine fit together 
breathtakingly ;-)

Looking forward to seeing you and all of you soon,

Matthias Baermann

  Prof. Zelimir Gabelica
  Université de Haute Alsace
  ENSCMu, Lab. GSEC,
  3, Rue A. Werner, 
  F-68093 Mulhouse Cedex, France
  Tel: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 94
  Fax: +33 (0)3 89 33 68 15 
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[meteorite-list] AD: Excelent Bassikounou For Collecters

2007-06-11 Thread Said Haddany

Hi everybody,
   
  I am offering three beautiful pieces of Bassikounou ..The most excelent 
pieces one had ever seen.Have a look on the follwoing link and please your eyes 
though you are not buying!!!..
  email me at the email adress below 


  Said Haddany
 Erfoud 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
   
   
   
   

   
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Re: [meteorite-list] Rusty droplets

2007-06-11 Thread Thomas Webb

'Iso' means equal!
  Thomas 
  

mark ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Iso means 'pure' ...

Mark

-Original Message-
From: Pete Pete [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: 08 June 2007 13:13
To: mark ford; [EMAIL PROTECTED];
Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rusty droplets

Mark wrote:
...Iso-alcohol (pure ethanol)...

Hi, all,

I'm not a chemist, but the way you wrote that, it might be
misinterpreted by 
some to identify Isopropyl alcohol is the same as Ethanol, which it's
not.
The connection to each other is that both have been referred to as
rubbing 
alcohol.

Cautions when using either with meteorites:

Don't use the 70% isopropyl - the 30% is water, which is what you want
to 
avoid. I use the 99% isopropyl and 95% ethanol without any ill effect
seen 
on the stones.

They are more flammable in these purer forms, so ventilate!

The fumes of isopropyl are poisonous! Ventilate.

Cheers,
Pete




From: mark ford 
To: giovannisostero 
,
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Rusty droplets
Date: Fri, 8 Jun 2007 09:14:57 +0100

Hi Giovani,

Yes firstly take them out of plastic! Any moisture/chemicals trapped in
the rock will stay in the rock if it is in plastic, you only want to put
dry, stable material into plastic boxes, (or use dessicant/silica gel
with the rock and recharge it regularly).

As Adam suggested you can also use Iso-alcohol (pure ethanol) it's good
for getting rid of moisture in extreme cases but make sure it is 'pure
anhydrous alcohol' or you will be putting more water in than you take
out! - also gently warm the slice afterwards to drive off any moisture
then sand with very very fine sanding paper.

They also preferably need to be kept somewhere dry like inside a cabinet
with dessicators inside, or better still a dehumidifier.

Most slices reach a stable point eventually once you have done this!

Best
Mark Ford





-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
giovannisostero
Sent: 07 June 2007 19:15
To: meteorite-list
Subject: [meteorite-list] Rusty droplets

Hi,
I noticed that a coupled of slices (Ghubara and NWA 869) I bought few
months ago from two different dealers, are producing some small liquid
droplets of rusty appearance. After cleaning, the droplets develope
again in a matter of few weeks. Any idea about how to cure it? The
samples are stored in plastic envelopes but without any particular
desicant.
Cheers,
Giovanni


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[meteorite-list] Test -please delete

2007-06-11 Thread Thomas Webb

Test
 
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[meteorite-list] thin section

2007-06-11 Thread Fabio

Hi List  
  
I would like to know which companies that make thin section of meteorites

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[meteorite-list] Arrow head in box of Moroccan meteorite fragments

2007-06-11 Thread STARSANDSCOPES

Hi List,  You all will think I am nuts.  I was going through a  box of small 
meteorite fragments sorting out interesting pieces and attractive  
individuals.  It was out of 20 Kg. small stuff, all unsorted and very dirty  
and I found 
an arrow head.  Nice shape. About 1 inch total length.
 
Are there any arrow heads found in the region where meteorites would be  
shipped from Morocco?
 
Thanks,  Tom 



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Re: [meteorite-list] Arrow head found in box of Moroccan Meteoritefragments.

2007-06-11 Thread Steve Dunklee

Hi list and Everyone:
  And they only had to work about 26 hour a week to put food on the table so 
who is really more advanced? There are many scattered all over the world so 
finding them is actually common. but has anyone found one made of meteorite 
lately?
   
  Cheers 
   
  Steve

   
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[meteorite-list] AD : Bassikounou

2007-06-11 Thread Alhyane Abdelaziz

Greetings Dealers,
I'm offering the last peice I have from Bassikounou fall, It is a large 3.3kg 
at a very competitive price 1 a gram, 
The photos can be found here : 
http://maijuin.free.fr/aziz_meteorites/Bassikounou/
Serious buyers send me email to : [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Sincere best wishes
Alhyane



   
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[meteorite-list] Greetings All

2007-06-11 Thread Robert Williamson

Greetings to All:
 This is my first post to this list. I have been 
collecting for several years, and have a small collection built up, mostly 
Allende, with some Murchison, Gibeon, Henbury, Campo, a small slice of Zagami, 
NWA 482, some olivine diogenite.
I'd like to thank Dean Bessey for my first little piece of Zagami, some 
years back when he lived in Toronto. I gave that to a friend of mine for his 
fiftieth birthday. I got another one later from another dealer, can't remember 
his name.
 I received some Allende from Mike Farmer a few years ago, and from Eric 
Twelker some Allende and Murchison. Thankyou again guys.
   And to Rob Wesel, thanks for the olivine diogenite. Still waiting for word 
from Ted Bunch.
I'd also like to thank Steve Arnold. And there are a few others, but I 
can't remember all the dealers that I have purchased from over the years. But 
thanks anyways.
   Anyways, it looks like everyone that I have purchased from over the years is 
on this list. Maybe one or two who are not.
You guys all helped build my collection and bring me as close to space as I 
will ever get. So thankyou so much to everyone.

Rob Williamson
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians bearing Seimchan

2007-06-11 Thread meteor a

Very strange that it is a new from Bulgarian site. Nothing from Russian side - 
I just searched the net.
If I'll find some details I'll try to forward them to all.
All the best,
Serge



 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sat, 
 9 Jun 2007 11:08:30 -0400 Subject: [meteorite-list] Beware of Russians 
 bearing Seimchan  http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=81664   Chunk 
 of Meteorite Stolen from Russian Museum   9 June 2007, Saturday  A chunk 
 of a meteorite weighing over 7 kilograms has been stolen from a museum in 
 the remote Magadan Region in Russia's Far East on Saturday.  A local 
 Interior Ministry spokesperson explained the thieves broke into a history 
 museum in the village of Seimchan at night and stole a part of the meteorite 
 named after the residential place.   It is supposed that the offenders have 
 been inspired by a recent TV program, which discussed the high value of 
 meteorite pieces on Russia's black market.  The Seimchan meteorite was 
 found in 1967 near the Seimchan gold mine in the Magadan Region.  The 
 local police authorities are still investigating the case. 
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[meteorite-list] Greetings: First Post

2007-06-11 Thread Robert Williamson

Greetings to All:
 This is my first post to this list. I have been 
collecting for several years, and have a small collection built up, mostly 
Allende, with some Murchison, Gibeon, Henbury, Campo, a small slice of Zagami, 
NWA 482, some olivine diogenite.
I'd like to thank Dean Bessey for my first little piece of Zagami, some 
years back when he lived in Toronto. I gave that to a friend of mine for his 
fiftieth birthday. I got another one later from another dealer, can't remember 
his name.
 I received some Allende from Mike Farmer a few years ago, and from Eric 
Twelker some Allende and Murchison. Thankyou again guys.
   And to Rob Wesel, thanks for the olivine diogenite. Still waiting for word 
from Ted Bunch.
I'd also like to thank Steve Arnold. And there are a few others, but I 
can't remember all the dealers that I have purchased from over the years. But 
thanks anyways.
   Anyways, it looks like everyone that I have purchased from over the years is 
on this list. Maybe one or two who are not.
You guys all helped build my collection and bring me as close to space as I 
will ever get. So thankyou so much to everyone.

Rob Williamson
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[meteorite-list] Welcome to Ensisheim and Ste Marie.

2007-06-11 Thread meteor a

Hi All!
I just want all you to know that French shows are approaching. And my friends 
Dima, Sasha and Sergey will be glad to see everybody there. They'll have a lot 
of interesting things that are so magnetic for a lot of people that are 
interested in something bit more different from their regular job.
 
I'm still at home... But soon the time will come and I'll be able to see you 
all somewhere.
All the best, Serge
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[meteorite-list] Question about meteorites

2007-06-11 Thread greg stanley

I have a question about meteorites.
   
  Hi List:
   
  I have a question regarding different shades of fusion crusts.  I realize 
that they are black, but I have read that some are greenish (lunar stones) or 
purplish (CMs) or brownish in some cases.  
   
  Are the different shades in the fusion crust produced from the mineralogy, or 
perhaps something else?  I remember reading that Aubites (I think) have a 
purplish or maroon crust, and I think it said something about being Calcuim 
rich.
   
  If anyone can expand on this, I would really appreciate it.
   
  Much Thanks,
   
  Greg S.
  

ensoramanda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  Well said Deanalthough everybody leaping on a plane to Ensisheim 
might well help warm things up.
See you in Ensishem hopefully.

Graham Ensor

dean bessey wrote:

I want a coral reef off newfoundland in the next
couple decades. Where I can go reef diving and run
spear fishing charters. Now in an effort to help that
lets everybody take it upon themselves to once a year
go to the nearest steel plant or oil refinery and
destroy a freezer with a sledge hammer - releasing
clorafloracarbons to help warm the place up.
HOWEVER, lets discuss this on a discussion list thats
devoted to making the place nice and cozy for all to
enjoy, even for Canadians in February - who sort of
got ripped off in the climate department when god went
dishing out the weather to everybody.
I refer everybody to #1 in the list of rules for this
discussion group:

1 - Posts need to relate -in some way- to meteorites

And unless we are discussing how meteorites contribute
to global warming (And helping to create my tropical
reef north of the 49th parlellel) this is not
meteorite related.
Everybody, jump on a plane to ensisheim. And we will
all work on a strategy to warm the place up on friday
- over some wild boar meat and that excellent wine
that is always served there.
Sincerely
DEAN


 

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Re: [meteorite-list] arrowhead found in box of Moroccan meteorite fragments

2007-06-11 Thread jeff hodges

Hi Tom,
   
  Very cool.  Do you have a photo?
   
  I have seen two arrowheads made out of Gibeons, found in the strewn field 
area by metal detectors.  One was supercool as it hit something hard and the 
tip got bent into an inward spiral.  I tried very hard to get my hands on one, 
but there were only two and one was spoken for.  John S a mineral and meteorite 
dealer who lives in NC found them in a box of small Gibeons he purchased back 
around 1998.  
   
   
  Jeff Hodges

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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2007

2007-06-11 Thread Don Rawlings

Is an unclassified meteorite really a meteorite without scientific 
verification?  Or is it just a probable meteorite?
   
  Don.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  In a message dated 6/11/2007 8:41:48 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Good Lord.. another unclassifed meteorite as Picture of the day? 
Yawn.

There should be a rule. No unclassifieds as Picture of the day.

Don



Sorry you're disappointed Don but you know you don't have to view them if 
you choose not to!

I post what collectors send me and if they want to share with others rather 
classified or not I see nothing wrong with it.


Sincerely,
Michael Johnson





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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or afarce

Hi Sterling,

1, There is no unequivocal evidence that the Earth is warming, but it may
be.

I don't know, whether an academic armchair discussion is really consolatory
for those people, whose existence is depending on weather. Because they
already have to realign and are realigning for the new reality they are
facing.
I'm talking e.g about farmers. And in that point whether a warming could be
observed, I honestly trust them more, than any statistician, because they
give a  on modelling theories and their assertions (also regarding the
long time records) do have for me a higher significance than from those, who
are arguing about the right interpretation of measured data or the methods
of measuring.

And there we have simply the fact, that e.g. here in middle Europe since
10-15 years, the vegetation period start 4-6 weeks earlier in spring, so
that the farmers are forced, to cultivate other kinds of crops, fruits ect.
than those, which they cultivated traditionally for decades and centuries.
Another especially traditionally field of agriculture is the viniculture,
there the winegrowers due to the higher temperatures, the drier summers ect.
change over to grape varieties normally growing only in South Europe,
because those ones cultivated over centuries don't tolerate the new
weather and/or those varieties, which couldn't be grown in past, because it
was to cold and wet bring more profit. (And meanwhile it's no utopia anymore
to grow wine in England...).
Remarkable furthermore is the unseen frequency of severe droughts in springs
and summers, - gosh, I'm often on the Baragan in Romania, settled for 100
years as granary for the whole country. In the recent decade there was
almost no normal summer anymore, the crop died, the small farmers all are
ruined, don't sow anymore, because it's hopeless and sold their land (now
it's Monsanto country).
And because our beloved dog died there last year from a parasitic disease,
where the only sporadic cases in that region were reported 100 years ago and
which else occurs only in the tropics (no treatment was available, because
of the high number of cases, medication was sold out), I could take that
scientific assertion, that there might be no indications of a warming as
an affront... 
Additionally in the recent years - also a so far quite unusual phenomenon
there - one can observe each year now tornados there.
In alpine tourism industry there you can find helpless attempts - there they
started now to cover the glaciers with awnings, because the pace of
deglaciation accelerated so dramatically, that they fear soon to have no
slopes there and due to the higher temperatures they have to invest a lot in
snowguns, as the classic ski resorts don't have enough snow anylonger and
got simply to warm.  Additionally more money has to be spent for
arrangements against mountain slides, because more often those mountains,
where the rocks are glued together by ice, come down now.
Due to the high stress of reduced average rainfall, the long dry periods and
due to the deadwood caused by more and more storm extremes, the wood
industries in central Europe had more than mere years.
And seen the records, I'd have to look, but 8 out of the last 10 summers
here were simply to hot.
Such occurences, that you can cross Rhine and Danube by foot, well that
didn't happen that often in the last 500 years - and such occurrences would
be of course noted in the chronicles.

And with all respect for studied scientist, each idiot, which hasn't
Alzheimer and has eyes to see in his head, can see in his daily life the
indications of a warming compared to the 70ies and 80ies. Tell me Sterling,
why do I see now in winter in my garden bird species, whereabout I can read
in books from the 80ies, that they are migratory birds - and which I
couldn't observe in the winters 20-10 years ago? 
I remember back as pupil - the happy events, called Hitzefrei - hot
weather, school off. When in forenoon the temperature was higher than 28°C,
the pupils were sent home. Was introduced in 1892. Nowadays several federal
states in Germany eliminate that rule, simply because meanwhile because of
the warming to many lessons would have to be cancelled.
And I remember well back, as a Bavarian, what a sensation it was once in the
80ies, when there were 4 days in April, when you could sit in the evening
outside in the beer gardens. That happens now every year. Last April had an
average temperature, which was 5.6 °C higher than the long term average for
April (already included the Aprils of the recent years)- hence it was like
an average September.

Other effects are the accumulation of weather extremes. Storms and extreme
rainfalls - causing remarkable inundations.
Sterling, try nowadays to buy in Germany an insurance policy against
flooding for your house, lying near a river or in a valley. They will laugh
at your face at the insurance company offices.

I could go on with hundred examples.
Important is, that these private people

Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2007

I want to thank ROCKS FROM SPACE
for tirelessly  and obviously, thanklessly,
giving us a daily meteorite photo.
To complain about something being
given to one for free seems to me to be so
rude as to be beyond comment.
Thanks for the tireless work!
Best wishes, Michael


on 6/11/07 12:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 In a message dated 6/11/2007 10:14:41 A.M.  Mountain Daylight Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 Good  Lord..   another unclassifed meteorite as Picture of the  day?
 Yawn.
 
 There should be a  rule.  No unclassifieds as Picture of the   day.
 
 Don
 
 
 
 Sorry  you're  disappointed Don but you know you don't have to view them if
 you choose not  to!
 
 I post what collectors send me  and if they want to share with others
 rather 
 classified or not I  see nothing wrong with  it.
 
 
 I disagree entirely with the  original post.  That's a beautiful meteorite,
 and
 saying that it has to  be classified to be worth showing is more of the
 where it
 
 This hobby is  about the rocks!  I find unclassified meteorites to be, at
 times, more  interesting because there is still mystery left.  I like nothing
 more than  a beautiful different looking unclassified meteorite.  Lets not
 forget  where they all come from and not long ago (15 years?), the meteorite
 featured in  the Picture of the Day would of drawn a lot of interest from
 nearly 
 all in this  hobby regardless of where it was found or if it had been pigeon
 holed  yet.
 
 To limit ones interest to only the classified Hot ticket  meteorites flies
 dangerously close to Pokemon card collecting.  I have a  Bulbasaur!  Well
 that's nothing, my Bulbasaur is Base Set!
 
 I'm  going back to the microscopes to examine some more mysteries.  Who
 knows,  maybe I'll find a Charizard!
 
 Tom  
 
 
 
 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a farce

2007-06-11 Thread GREG LINDH

Hi Al and List,

Referring to the reaction by the politically correct world to some one who
disagrees that global warming is caused by human behavior, you correctly wrote:

People have now reached a state of unreasoned belief that they hold to
with a religious passion.
To behave contrary to their expectation is not to disagree; it is to be a bad
person.
--
So true, Al. Support the politically correct, global warming theory, and
you're educated and thinking scientifically. Present arguments to the
contrary and disbelieve in the global warming crew and you're not just
*wrong*, you're ignorant, and worse than that, you're a *bad person*.

It's a funny thing, but people who write about religion and politics here
on the list are told that this *is not* the place for doing that. This is a
place to talk about *meteorites* only! The only exception to this is when
those who wish to trash religion and spout the politically correct politics
like global warming want to express their viewsthen it's perfectly OK to
write whatever they want.

Talk about double standards!

Greg Lindh

- Original Message -
From: AL Mitterlingmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To:
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.commailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Sunday, June 10, 2007 7:25 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - Scientifically proven or a
farce

Greetings Sterling and listees,

Well said Sterling!

Work will make you free (1984)

The time for debate is over, they say. It's irresponsible
to argue about the science when confronted by disaster. Just go along...
Accept it.

The media have now turned the population at large to Majority Warmist,
paradoxically by persuading those who consider themselves the most
informed first. Like the Captain. Of course, everybody is informed
(everybody who watches television) nowadays. People have now reached a
state of unreasoned belief that they hold to with a religious passion.
To behave contrary to their expectation is not to disagree; it is to be
a bad person.

--AL Mitterling

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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming - 'Facts'

2007-06-11 Thread WAHLPERRY

Hi Mike,
 
I agree 100 percent with you on global warming. Something has to be done,  
people need to wake up . We will not see the end effect but our offspring will. 
 
Just like the Nuclear dump planned for Nevada. A material with a half life of 
 24,000 years can't be that bad!
 
Sonny



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Re: [meteorite-list] Rocks From Space Picture of the Day - June 11, 2007

2007-06-11 Thread Don Rawlings

Good Lord..  another unclassifed meteorite as Picture of the day?   Yawn.
   
  There should be a rule.  No unclassifieds as Picture of the day.
   
  Don

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  http://www.spacerocksinc.com/June_11_2007.html





 







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Don Rawlings
   
-
Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally,  mobile search that gives answers, not web links. __
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[meteorite-list] Global warming

2007-06-11 Thread Jake Baker

I don't like to go off list but I will.

 

I have a friend who is a dirt and water doctor working for USDA research.
He is extremely upset about alternate fuels because of the use of
groundwater to irrigate crops for fuel. It is a critical topic that embraces
not only hydrology but also ethics. If we exhaust water tables growing fuel
crops where will we be?? No water to drink but by god we'll have fuel.
Doesn't it make more sense to use petro-reserves than affect a critical
resource?  

 

Also is it ethical to grow crops for fuel when peoples of the world are
starving??

 

Your choice.

 

Barb

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[meteorite-list] Has anybody built the GoldPic3 for meteorite hunting?

2007-06-11 Thread Michael Mazur


I'm just wondering if anyone has built the GoldPic3 PI metal detector (
http://home.global.co.za/~trh/) for meteorite hunting. I've ordered a couple
of kits and hope to try them out on a trip in the fall and I was wondering
if anyone on the list has experience with them. Thanks,

Mike

--
Michael Mazur
Norway
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[meteorite-list] something else to consider [global warming]

2007-06-11 Thread Jerry


subsequent more current studies
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicholas_Shackleton 


Jerry Flaherty
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[meteorite-list] Alarmists are not new.

2007-06-11 Thread GREG LINDH


   To all,

In view of all the talk about global warming, does anyone remember Paul 
Ehrlich?  You knowthe great authority who wrote the book, The 
Population Bomb in the late 1960s.  The world was up in arms due to his 
book.  There was going to be *mass famine* all over the earth by the late 
1970s or by the mid-1980s at the latest because of the inevitable 
explosion of the world's population.  According to Ehrlich, nothing could 
stop it.
What happened to Ehrlich's vision of our planet?
What ever happened to Ehrlich?
Funny how the absolutely fool proof science of today is really not 
that fool proof at all.

Greg Lindh 

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[meteorite-list] Global Warming

2007-06-11 Thread Dave Carothers

I'd like to suggest that this entire thread be taken to a more appropriate 
list:


alt.global-warming

Dave

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[meteorite-list] Iron Vampires from Outer Space!

Key quote:

This usually happens when a meteorite draws iron from the air,


http://www.dailymirror.lk/2007/06/12/front/02.asp

Sunday night blast  it was a meteoroid

By Yohan Perera 


A meteorite explosion in the air above Sri Lanka rocked many areas on Sunday
night and caused panic among people who feared it was another bomb blast or air
attack. 


The Astronomy Unit of Colombo University and Arthur C. Clarke Centre confirmed
the loud bang heard on Sunday night was a meteorite explosion.


According to Colombo University senior lecturer Chandana Jayaratne the explosion
had taken place over Nattandiya and the size of the meteoroid was around one
meter. It had exploded in the air, illuminating the night sky, he said.
Eyewitnesses confirmed they saw the night sky being illuminated with the
explosion. 


The professor said the telephone lines in Andiambalama and Mirigama areas had
undergone disturbance at the time of the explosion. This usually happens when a
meteorite draws iron from the air, he explained. 


Professor Jayaratne said this was a usual phenomenon as many meteorites fall
throughout the year. The astronomy unit of the Colombo University is reported to
have a large collection of meteorite samples collected from many parts of the
country.


Meanwhile Arthur C. Clarke Centre said it had received from many areas
information on the explosion and the sighting of a bright object streaking
through the night sky. A Centre spokesman said a moving bright object was seen
from as far as Hambantota. The sound of the explosion had been heard in
Mirigama, Kuliyapitiya, Bingiriya and Kotadeniyawa, he said. 


According to the spokesman there may have been a meteorite shower which caused
several explosions. The Centre is to send its research teams to Nattandiya and
Kuliyapitiya areas. 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Alarmists are not new.

Hi, Greg,

Dr. Ehrlich is alive and well and on the faculty
of Stanford, which he has been since 1959. He is
head of the Center for Conservation Biology there
(he's a entomologist, you know, specializing in
butterflies).

Well, here. Check it out yourself...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_R._Ehrlich

He could have been completely right when
he wrote The Population Bomb in 1968. There
were no great results coming from old or new
food yield genetic technologies despite decades
of promises, promises. Then it exploded in the
70's and continues to do so. Whoops!

He did not believe that technology could get
you out of all difficulties; some he thought, you
were just stuck with; you had to accept limitations.
Of course, he knew people didn't want to hear that,
but he thought that was because it was an inconvenient
truth people didn't want to face. In the case of his
cause, it just appears simply to have not been true.


Sterling K. Webb
---
- Original Message - 
From: GREG LINDH [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 9:12 PM
Subject: [meteorite-list] Alarmists are not new.



   To all,

In view of all the talk about global warming, does anyone remember Paul
Ehrlich?  You knowthe great authority who wrote the book, The
Population Bomb in the late 1960s.  The world was up in arms due to his
book.  There was going to be *mass famine* all over the earth by the late
1970s or by the mid-1980s at the latest because of the inevitable
explosion of the world's population.  According to Ehrlich, nothing could
stop it.
What happened to Ehrlich's vision of our planet?
What ever happened to Ehrlich?
Funny how the absolutely fool proof science of today is really not
that fool proof at all.

Greg Lindh

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[meteorite-list] Ensisheim and vacation!

2007-06-11 Thread Impactika

Hello everybody,

I am almost packed and flying off tomorrow morning  for Paris and the 
Ensisheim Show, then I will take some vacation time and I am  flying back on 
June 27. 
But don't expect to hear from me until the 28th at  best.

Right now my Catalog is (almost) up to date and so is the list of  
thin-sections, so if you want to reserve something, or ask a question, go ahead 
 send me 
an email, and I will try to answer as quickly as possible, I will have  
access to a couple computers while in France. And of course, I will clean up my 
 
mailbox, erase a thousand or so spam emails and get to the real mail as quickly 
 
as possible when I get back.

Au Revoir!!!

Anne M.  Black
www.IMPACTIKA.com
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
President, I.M.C.A.  Inc.
www.IMCA.cc
 



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Re: [meteorite-list] Global Warming and METEORITES