Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled stones if they didn't have numbers written directly on them? If say they had been displayed/sold in a bag or box with a label but no markings on, over time would some have have been separated from their boxes/bags and labels? I would hazard a guess that quite a few would have suffered this fate and now we would be left with some unidentifiable stones. Although by saying this i am placing no importance whatsoever on me as an individual collector or my own numbers as being valuable other than to avoid the situation of misidentified or unidentified specimens in the future. As only temporary custodians of our collections surely making sure that our collections can easily be passed on without any missing info is of prime importance? Numbering specimens directly is surely the most foolproof method of achieving this? All the labels on boxes/bags and display stands etc. are meaningless when the specimen is removed. All the photos of the specimen stored either in hard copy or digital form are subject to being lost or destroyed. I know these are all extreme circumstances and most of the time these steps that we take will be absolutely fine as specimens stay with their displays/cards etc. but if there is a possibility, however small of accidents happening should we not do more? As an example of the situation i want to avoid see the photo of the orphaned stone in the article on a recent visit to the Manchester museum (http://www.bimsociety.org/article-manchester.shtml) If this had an original number on it it probably would not be in the situation its in now. Its more than a distinct possibility that this is stone from a historical fall and yet we may never know Anyway, some food for thought! Cheers Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TRINITITE Who is Dr. LaPaz
Shawn, James, List, While it is radiologically safe to possess and display trinitite after this interval, handling it could conceivably be unwise, depending on the nature of the sample, the degree of vitrification and the physical integrity of the sample. The danger is that of a small particle (even very small) getting detached and ending up in your body, breathed in, or eaten, or... One would not want to run any risk of acquiring even a small amount of an alpha emitter than might become incorporated in your tissues. A low risk, possibly, but a low risk of a high risk event. I have a quantity of trinitite that I personally collected in 1949. At that time, it was capable of producing a good buzz in a primitive tube circuit Geiger-Mueller counter. In the late 1950's, it made only a mild buzz, and by the 1960's, no buzz. It was not as active as other samples I had, however, like a good lump of pitchblende, which was always noisier than the trinitite. By contrast, by the early Sixties, when the trinitite wouldn't raise a blip over background, the pitchblende activity was unchanged (as it will be for the next billion years or so). Nevertheless, I put the trinitite in a sealed but see-through container at that time (1960's) and there it stays. I did get rid of my radium samples, though, in an interval of sanity. The pitchblende and other ores are all in sealed jars. As for these exposures, anyone who was a child in the period of open-air nuclear bomb testing was exposed to a far greater hazard than that of owning (or handling) a piece of trinitite. See this testing: http://beckerexhibits.wustl.edu/dental/articles/babytooth.html and these results: http://www.physorg.com/news175368568.html Paradoxically, I handled the trinitite freely back when it was, well, a little warm and put it safely away about the time it had cooled off. It's funny the way human logic works. The nothing-ever-happened-to-me argument is not a valid one in evaluating risks. When I was a school boy, I used to run into the show store at every chance and stick my feet into the fluoroscope they used to check the fit of a shoe, just so I could look at my skeletal toe bones wiggling. A public X-ray machine in a shoe store was a colossally stupid thing to have, but X-raying your feet as often as you could is pretty dumb, too. The fact that I seem to have had no harm as a result doesn't mean it was a harmless thing to do, but only that I was (am?) a lucky person. Trinitite is almost unique (and we hope it stays that way) since a combat nuclear weapon would never be (has never been) detonated at ground level. By all means, hold the trinitite in your open palm, then take a photo of it resting there, then put the trinitite away in a nice display box. Write on the back of the photo, Here's me holding a piece of one of the paving bricks from downtown Hell. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: James Balister balisterja...@att.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz I have been touching my trinitite since 1961 and I still have all my hair! - Original Message From: photoph...@yahoo.com photoph...@yahoo.com To: James Balister balisterja...@att.net Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 1:29:04 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Note: Forwarded message is attached. So i shouldnt touch it with my bare hands? Its a small piece The seller said i would be ok if i didnt eat it. I am to young to die lol. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
I have said this before and I am saying it again! The meteorite comunnity needs to take some lessons from the rare coin dealers and start sellling specimens in packages with standards. Hermatically sealed specimens of standard size and provanance, sealed in thin collector sized cases. To create an investor market we need to sell 1 cm square slices 4mm thick in sealed dessicated containers that are tamper proof and graded like collector coins. this would be a lot better than the current method of selling irregular chunks sent in a baggy with a business card. by establishing a standard of grading for collector meteorites we will create a larger market of collector specimins with a higher value which will allow them to be traded like gold or silver on the commodities market. and dramitically increase the vALUE OF METEORITES FOR EVERYONE ON THE LIST. I may have problems trying to figure out if a meteorite is a 4 or a 5 but if its in a dime sized container graded and authenticated by the imca. it would be a win win situation cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Sat, 2/27/10, martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com wrote: From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:50 AM All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled stones if they didn't have numbers written directly on them? If say they had been displayed/sold in a bag or box with a label but no markings on, over time would some have have been separated from their boxes/bags and labels? I would hazard a guess that quite a few would have suffered this fate and now we would be left with some unidentifiable stones. Although by saying this i am placing no importance whatsoever on me as an individual collector or my own numbers as being valuable other than to avoid the situation of misidentified or unidentified specimens in the future. As only temporary custodians of our collections surely making sure that our collections can easily be passed on without any missing info is of prime importance? Numbering specimens directly is surely the most foolproof method of achieving this? All the labels on boxes/bags and display stands etc. are meaningless when the specimen is removed. All the photos of the specimen stored either in hard copy or digital form are subject to being lost or destroyed. I know these are all extreme circumstances and most of the time these steps that we take will be absolutely fine as specimens stay with their displays/cards etc. but if there is a possibility, however small of accidents happening should we not do more? As an example of the situation i want to avoid see the photo of the orphaned stone in the article on a recent visit to the Manchester museum (http://www.bimsociety.org/article-manchester.shtml) If this had an original number on it it probably would not be in the situation its in now. Its more than a distinct possibility that this is stone from a historical fall and yet we may never know Anyway, some food for thought! Cheers Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite Men Comment
Hi Paul, Following on from your information about bog ironI was recently shown a picture by a friend who had visited Orkney, off the coast of Scotland. It showed a rock labeled as a meteorite in a cabinet at the museum there. I had never heard of that before and followed it up with emails to the museum and other investigations. Apparently that was collected after a fireball was seen over the island many years ago and although it is still labelled as 'meteorite' in their small museum it has been independently looked at by a local geologist who seems sure it is bog iron. Apparently it is commonly found on the Island in the peaty areas. I too am still not confident what that stone may be...I am sure it has never been tested for nickel. Meteorite or Meteorwrong? A new British meteorite or not? The finder's family say they have some other pieces and would send me samples, but nothing yet. Anyone know the exact mechanism that forms bog iron? Graham Ensor..UK Paul Heinrich oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote: Dear Friends, Meteorite Men is a great show. personally, I feel that it has a nice mix of science, humor, entertainment, and droll, low-key adventure that many shows needs to have. From my job, I can tell that bit definitely has generated a lot of interest in Louisiana, with a very definite increase in inquiries, about meteorites and meteorite hunting received by other geologists and I. There have been a bunch of rocks, some of which have been lying in people's closests for decades. Unfortunately, they have so far been meterwrongs and even one craterwrong. However, a person never knows when that meteorite that has been either sitting in someone''s porch as doorstop or in their garage for the past few years will finally make it way into my or some other geologist's office possibly because of the interest generated by Meteorite Men. One of the more strange meteorwrongs was a gneiss boulder about 1.5 to 2 meters in diameter that got pulled up in a fishing net off Grand Island, Lafourche Parish. The most frustrating meteorwrongs in Louisiana are bog iron ores, which form in permanently saturated coastal plain soils and often are associated with springs. Pieces of this material have an unfortunate tendency of being dense, pitch black, and even magnetic. Certain pieces are troublesome because neither I nor any other geologist feel comfortable, despite what intuition says, about judging them as definite meteorwrongs without being able to inspect them in person. I have been tempted to suggest to to a soil scientist, whom I worked with, that looking at the genesis of these bog iron ores would be a worthwhile project for a Masters thesis for some student. I and another geologist can at least now point out a number of places where they can be studied. They have a strange, although quite terrestrial, mineralogy. Yours, Paul H. Baton Rouge, LA 70803 http://www.scribd.com/etchplain __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Hi Steve, I have to say that I disagree in relation to 'slabbing' meteorites as is done in coin market. For me as a collector I collect for the variety and difference in specimens and would definitely not want a display cabinet filled with identical sized specimens lined up like dominoes. That would hold no interest for me whatsoever. I don't primarily collect for investment, I obviously know the value of specimens but for me its the science and history and aesthetics of individual specimens that attract me. In all honesty if meteorites were traded like silver or gold it would put me off the hobby. Each to their own though and your opinion is appreciated Cheers Martin Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange -Original Message- From: Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:28:17 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; martin goffmsgmeteori...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens I have said this before and I am saying it again! The meteorite comunnity needs to take some lessons from the rare coin dealers and start sellling specimens in packages with standards. Hermatically sealed specimens of standard size and provanance, sealed in thin collector sized cases. To create an investor market we need to sell 1 cm square slices 4mm thick in sealed dessicated containers that are tamper proof and graded like collector coins. this would be a lot better than the current method of selling irregular chunks sent in a baggy with a business card. by establishing a standard of grading for collector meteorites we will create a larger market of collector specimins with a higher value which will allow them to be traded like gold or silver on the commodities market. and dramitically increase the vALUE OF METEORITES FOR EVERYONE ON THE LIST. I may have problems trying to figure out if a meteorite is a 4 or a 5 but if its in a dime sized container graded and authenticated by the imca. it would be a win win situation cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Sat, 2/27/10, martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com wrote: From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:50 AM All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled stones if they didn't have numbers written directly on them? If say they had been displayed/sold in a bag or box with a label but no markings on, over time would some have have been separated from their boxes/bags and labels? I would hazard a guess that quite a few would have suffered this fate and now we would be left with some unidentifiable stones. Although by saying this i am placing no importance whatsoever on me as an individual collector or my own numbers as being valuable other than to avoid the situation of misidentified or unidentified specimens in the future. As only temporary custodians of our collections surely making sure that our collections can easily be passed on without any missing info is of prime importance? Numbering specimens directly is surely the most foolproof method of achieving this? All the labels on boxes/bags and display stands etc. are meaningless when the specimen is removed. All the photos of the specimen stored either in hard copy or digital form are subject to being lost or destroyed. I know these are all extreme circumstances and most of the time these steps that we take will be absolutely fine as specimens stay with their displays/cards etc. but if there is a possibility, however small of accidents happening should we not do more? As an example of the situation i want to avoid see the photo of the orphaned stone in the article on a recent visit to the Manchester museum (http://www.bimsociety.org/article-manchester.shtml) If this had an original number on it it probably would not be in the situation its in now. Its more than a distinct possibility that this is stone from a historical fall and yet we may never know Anyway, some food for thought!
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Hi Michael, Steve and group, I have to agree with Michael here. The investment value of a specimen is secondary (or tertiary) to my other reasons for collecting. As for the IMCA - any statement of authenticity would only be worth the paper it's on. Certificates of authenticity have been discussed in the past and the general consensus is that they are not worth the paper they are printed on. (they are mostly a gimmick) As for actual verification of a sample, that verification is changed every time the specimen changes hands, especially for rare falls. The chain of provenance is key here. Best regards and happy huntings, MikeG On 2/27/10, msgmeteori...@googlemail.com msgmeteori...@googlemail.com wrote: Hi Steve, I have to say that I disagree in relation to 'slabbing' meteorites as is done in coin market. For me as a collector I collect for the variety and difference in specimens and would definitely not want a display cabinet filled with identical sized specimens lined up like dominoes. That would hold no interest for me whatsoever. I don't primarily collect for investment, I obviously know the value of specimens but for me its the science and history and aesthetics of individual specimens that attract me. In all honesty if meteorites were traded like silver or gold it would put me off the hobby. Each to their own though and your opinion is appreciated Cheers Martin Sent using BlackBerry® from Orange -Original Message- From: Steve Dunklee steve.dunk...@yahoo.com Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2010 02:28:17 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; martin goffmsgmeteori...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens I have said this before and I am saying it again! The meteorite comunnity needs to take some lessons from the rare coin dealers and start sellling specimens in packages with standards. Hermatically sealed specimens of standard size and provanance, sealed in thin collector sized cases. To create an investor market we need to sell 1 cm square slices 4mm thick in sealed dessicated containers that are tamper proof and graded like collector coins. this would be a lot better than the current method of selling irregular chunks sent in a baggy with a business card. by establishing a standard of grading for collector meteorites we will create a larger market of collector specimins with a higher value which will allow them to be traded like gold or silver on the commodities market. and dramitically increase the vALUE OF METEORITES FOR EVERYONE ON THE LIST. I may have problems trying to figure out if a meteorite is a 4 or a 5 but if its in a dime sized container graded and authenticated by the imca. it would be a win win situation cheers Steve Dunklee --- On Sat, 2/27/10, martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com wrote: From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Saturday, February 27, 2010, 8:50 AM All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled stones if they didn't have numbers written directly on them? If say they had been displayed/sold in a bag or box with a label but no markings on, over time would some have have been separated from their boxes/bags and labels? I would hazard a guess that quite a few would have suffered this fate and now we would be left with some unidentifiable stones. Although by saying this i am placing no importance whatsoever on me as an individual collector or my own numbers as being valuable other than to avoid the situation of misidentified or unidentified specimens in the future. As only temporary custodians of our collections surely making sure that our collections can easily be passed on without any missing info is of prime importance? Numbering specimens directly is surely the most foolproof method of achieving this? All the labels on boxes/bags and display stands etc. are meaningless when the specimen is removed. All the photos of the specimen stored either in hard copy or digital form are subject to being
[meteorite-list] Rocks from Space Picture of the Day - February 27, 2010
http://www.rocksfromspace.org/February_27_2010.html __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TRINITITE Who is Dr. LaPaz
Hi Sterling and List, Yes, your home smoke detector contains material that is far more radioactive than trinitite. Trinitite is an alpha emitter, but a very weak one. Handling it is OK, within reason. Don't ingest it or allow it to enter the mucus membranes or an open cut. I generally keep mine sealed behind glass, but I do have to handle it to weigh, prepare, and sell specimens. It hasn't killed me yet and I have not developed any superpowers. Depending how close you hold the probe next to a sample during testing, it will register less than 100 milliroentgens. Some pieces are hotter than others, but hot is relative here, since the worst components have degraded into less-harmful decay products. If trinitite was a meteorite, it would be considered quite weathered by now. Best regards, MikeG www.galactic-stone.com On 2/27/10, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Shawn, James, List, While it is radiologically safe to possess and display trinitite after this interval, handling it could conceivably be unwise, depending on the nature of the sample, the degree of vitrification and the physical integrity of the sample. The danger is that of a small particle (even very small) getting detached and ending up in your body, breathed in, or eaten, or... One would not want to run any risk of acquiring even a small amount of an alpha emitter than might become incorporated in your tissues. A low risk, possibly, but a low risk of a high risk event. I have a quantity of trinitite that I personally collected in 1949. At that time, it was capable of producing a good buzz in a primitive tube circuit Geiger-Mueller counter. In the late 1950's, it made only a mild buzz, and by the 1960's, no buzz. It was not as active as other samples I had, however, like a good lump of pitchblende, which was always noisier than the trinitite. By contrast, by the early Sixties, when the trinitite wouldn't raise a blip over background, the pitchblende activity was unchanged (as it will be for the next billion years or so). Nevertheless, I put the trinitite in a sealed but see-through container at that time (1960's) and there it stays. I did get rid of my radium samples, though, in an interval of sanity. The pitchblende and other ores are all in sealed jars. As for these exposures, anyone who was a child in the period of open-air nuclear bomb testing was exposed to a far greater hazard than that of owning (or handling) a piece of trinitite. See this testing: http://beckerexhibits.wustl.edu/dental/articles/babytooth.html and these results: http://www.physorg.com/news175368568.html Paradoxically, I handled the trinitite freely back when it was, well, a little warm and put it safely away about the time it had cooled off. It's funny the way human logic works. The nothing-ever-happened-to-me argument is not a valid one in evaluating risks. When I was a school boy, I used to run into the show store at every chance and stick my feet into the fluoroscope they used to check the fit of a shoe, just so I could look at my skeletal toe bones wiggling. A public X-ray machine in a shoe store was a colossally stupid thing to have, but X-raying your feet as often as you could is pretty dumb, too. The fact that I seem to have had no harm as a result doesn't mean it was a harmless thing to do, but only that I was (am?) a lucky person. Trinitite is almost unique (and we hope it stays that way) since a combat nuclear weapon would never be (has never been) detonated at ground level. By all means, hold the trinitite in your open palm, then take a photo of it resting there, then put the trinitite away in a nice display box. Write on the back of the photo, Here's me holding a piece of one of the paving bricks from downtown Hell. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: James Balister balisterja...@att.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz I have been touching my trinitite since 1961 and I still have all my hair! - Original Message From: photoph...@yahoo.com photoph...@yahoo.com To: James Balister balisterja...@att.net Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 1:29:04 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Note: Forwarded message is attached. So i shouldnt touch it with my bare hands? Its a small piece The seller said i would be ok if i didnt eat it. I am to young to die lol. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
I have said this before and I am saying it again! The meteorite comunnity needs to take some lessons from the rare coin dealers and start sellling specimens in packages with standards. Hermatically sealed specimens of standard size and provanance, sealed in thin collector sized cases. To create an investor market we need to sell 1 cm square slices 4mm thick in sealed dessicated containers that are tamper proof and graded like collector coins. this would be a lot better than the current method of selling irregular chunks sent in a baggy with a business card. by establishing a standard of grading for collector meteorites we will create a larger market of collector specimins with a higher value which will allow them to be traded like gold or silver on the commodities market. and dramitically increase the vALUE OF METEORITES FOR EVERYONE ON THE LIST. I may have problems trying to figure out if a meteorite is a 4 or a 5 but if its in a dime sized container graded and authenticated by the imca. it would be a win win situation You gotta be kidding? I for one wouldn't want small pieces like you describe. If the meteorite community did some how agree to such a hair brain idea, I'd still seek out the sizes I would want and ignore the 1 cm square pieces. I also bet there would be enuf folks out there that would do the same. I can just see now people cutting up their favorite Sikhote-alin individuals into little chunks, so they can be fitted into their little hermatically sealed containers. As for gold and silver, well I've done some gold prospecting and sold a fair amount of gold on ebay in the years past. One thing I became keenly aware of, you can sell natural gold nuggets for a higher price than the same weight of gold bullion. Also the gold nuggets is not as pure as the bullion. Over time, I've converted my gold bullion into natural gold nuggets, knowing that some day I can sell the same amount of gold for a higher price, just because they are now in the form of natural nuggets. When it comes to meteorites, if such a scheme was put into motion, I think you'll find those that didn't went along with it will have a more successful time. GeoZay __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Trinitite was Who is Dr. LaPaz
Hi Paul and List, Thanks for the trinitite links! A couple of those are new to me. Now I have something to read today. :) Best regards, MikeG On 2/27/10, Paul Heinrich oxytropidoce...@cox.net wrote: In the thread [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz at http://six.pairlist.net/pipermail/meteorite-list/2010-February/061407.html Shawn Alan asked: Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Go look at; 1. Trinitite at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trinitite 2. Parekh, P. P.. T. M. Semkow, M. A. Torres, D. K. Haines, J. M. Cooper, P. M. Rosenberg and M. E. Kitto, 2006, Radioactivity in Trinitite six decades later. Journal of Environmental Radioactivity. vol. 85, no. 1, pp. 103–112. Abstract at http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.jenvrad.2005.01.017 PDF file at http://www.ecolo.org/documents/documents_in_english/Trinitite-JER-2006.pdf 3. Trinitite Varieties Steven L. Kay, Nuclearon http://www.radiochemistry.org/documents/pdf/trinitite_nuclearon_061608.pdf 4. Ross, C. S., 1948, Optical properties of glass from Alamogordo, New Mexico. American Mineralogist. vol 33, no 5-6, pp. 360-363. http://www.minsocam.org/ammin/AM33/AM33_360.pdf http://www.minsocam.org/msa/collectors_corner/amtoc/toc1948.htm 5. Eby, G. N., N. Charley, and J. A., Smoliga, 2010, and Trinitite - The Atomic Clock. Geological Society of America Abstracts with Programs. vol. . 42, no. 1, p. 77. http://gsa.confex.com/gsa/2010NE/finalprogram/abstract_169905.htm 6. Pittauerova, D., nd, Trinitite Radioactivity of trinitite after 62 years. Radioactivity Measurements Laboratory, Universitat Breman. http://www.radioaktivitaet.uni-bremen.de/Seminar/Trinitite.pdf Reading about the bomb tests from Pittauerova (nd). Rhodes, Richard, 1986, The Making of the Atomic Bomb. Simon and Schuster, New York Szasz, Ferene, 1984, The Day the Sun Rose Twice. University of New Mexico Press, Albuquerque Jungk, Robert, 1958, Brighter than a Thousand Suns: A Personal History of the Atomic Scientists. Harcourt Brace, New York. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Jungk A related paper is: Whitehead, N. E., S. Endo, K. Tanaka, T. Takatsuji, M. Hoshi, S. Fukutani, R.G. Ditchburn, and A. Zondervan. 2007, A preliminary study on the use of 10Be in forensic radioecology of nuclear explosion sites. Journal of Environmental Radioactivity. vol. 99, no. 2, pp. 260-270. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17904707 Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Hello Steve, My opinion is pretty much the opposite from yours. standard size and provenance Province would be okay, but I would not collect meteorites if they came in standard sizes. I like variety To create an investor market I don't really want investors to get involved in the meteorite market. If investors were to come in droves, I'm leaving. The prices would skyrocket and there would be no point in my collecting something I could not afford. we need to sell 1 cm square slices 4mm thick Again, I would leave. I don't want 1 cm square slices. graded like collector coins collector coins aren't graded. investment coins are. The field of stamp collecting recently started grading stamps. That, and rampant dealer dishonesty, have turned me away from stamp collecting, which I have done since I was a kid. I am not exaggerating when I say a formally .75 stamp, once graded now has an asking price of 75.00. Why, because Professional Stamp Experts (what a dumb sounding name) says is has a certain grade. Grading would be worse then having a flood of investors inter the market. To me grading is for people who don't want to take the time to actually learn something about meteorites (e.g., investors - gh :-) larger market of collector specimins with a higher value Higher value translates into higher prices. Personally, I don't really want that. I would be very pleased if the asking prices for meteorites took a nose dive. THAT might generate more collectors and less investors. vALUE OF METEORITES FOR EVERYONE Again, you mean higher prices. authenticated by the imca. Steve, aren't you being presumptious? The IMCA does not authenticate meteorites, and I think it pretty safe to say it never will. it would be a win win situation Everyone will lose. Except of course, the investors who would make some money then pull out. Not to be argumentative. Just my opinions. -Walter Branch __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Agreed Martin! And btw. meteorites are a kind of natural products. Anyway Steve, meteorite collecting is quite the safest field of colleting of all. Nowhere else there are so strict requirements for the authentication of the collectible items. A quadruple safety you have: 1. New finds and falls get classified. This is done by independent and non-commercial labs and by the few experts on the planet, who are specialized in that. These classifications and evaluations are done according hard physical and chemical criteria. Therefore it is somewhat different, as let's say with a reviewer or a evaluator in the arts sector, where the statement he delivers strongly depends on his individual education, his experience and on his gut instincts. Often such analyses can take 1-2 years, before the owner of the stone can think about circulating that material. And with rarer types often several labs are working on the classification. A sample of that collectible will be kept in an independent institute for reference purposes and further studies. 2. The results of that evaluation are reviewed by a central scientific institution, by a panel consisting of leading experts of that branch of science. Called the NomCom of MetSoc. All basic data of all meteorites are collected in one place - and are centrally published and for everyone accessible in the Meteoritical Bulletin. 3. Meteorites are the rarest collectibles in existence. Only a very few players take part in the World-scene of meteorites. No dealer or collector could trade non-authentic specimens, because if he gets caught, his reputation would be fully ruined and he couldn't take part in the meteorite World any longer. (Such cases happened). The meteorite scene, scientists, hunters, collectors, dealers are a dense network. And meteorites are so rare, that especially with the meteorites with names and with the rarer (expensive) types, there do not exist anonymous meteorites. No such meteorite, where not other collectors do have samples to compare and where other participants of the collecting field do exactly now, how that material looks like. 4. IMCA and its members are permanently monitoring that market. Whenever I buy a coin, an artefact, a Picasso or a Duesenberg, then I don't have such a multiple standard of safety like when I buy a meteorite. graded and authenticated by the... Is theoretically possible. IMCA would have to employ 20-30 fulltime experts and bureau people. Sellers would have to send in each specimen to get it sent back. Shipping, working places, working materials... Waiting time, sellers in turn had to higher helpers... That costs. Meteorite prices of these years hit rock bottom. Meteorite sellers would have no choice else, then to pass on the additional costs of such an additional authentication process to the collectors. If I look into ebay... most stuff is in the 10-50$ range. If the collectors would be willing to pay 50-250$ for the very same stuff, then we can do it. So I can't see a win-win-situation. Where should be the advantage to create a fifth instance of safety, if the costs for the collector will explode then? Nor do I see an advantage for the collector, to create an investor market. Collectors strongly profit from the circumstance, that the meteorite market is so small. That most people on Earth do not know, that you can buy a piece of Mars, Moon, Vesta or what a brachinite or a rumurutiite shall be at all. The quantity of goods is very limited. Just look in the Bulletin Database, how few of the most common achondrite class, the HEDs were found in Sahara, Oman... and remember, how short time it took, that the largest stone find ever, NWA 869 with 7 tons, was completely absorbed by the market, think about how fast the most ubiquist meteorite ever, Gibeon (the all-time-Campo of the 20th century) after 1999, or the tons and tons of Sikhote-Alin. If we had only 2-3 big investors, how they are very common in the antiques or arts market, the meteorite market would be completely empty in 1-2 years. Meteorites are extremely rare stuff and not reproducible at will. Steve, take the Périgord or Alba truffles, which are easier to hunt like a Brenham or a NWA-OC - each year much more of them are found then the complete tonnage of all finds from 10 years Oman hunting and more than meteorites are found per year. Difference is, that for a kilo-chunk of an ordinary, averagely weathered NWA-chondrite - that stuff what makes up 90%+ of all (non-iron) finds, you're not paying 4000 or 7000$ like for a kg truffles, but currently 25 to 50$ at Bessey and friends. With the money paid for 2-3 top sales each year of single top-items of the art sector or the antiques sector or the mineralfossil sector - you can buy out the complete meteorite world market. That's why also for me that laws debate is in my eyes so hysterical. Instead to tell everywhere fairy tales, about meteorite people getting billionaires and poor science and crying for
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Good Morning Martin and List, I truly believe that we homo sapiens have a well developed ability to remember past beneficial and not so beneficial actions accomplished by our predecessors in order to guide us when important decisions have to be made. What was good enough for the likes of Lylle, Huss, Nininger, Kurat, Kulik and so many other pioneers and experts in meteorite collection and curatingshould point the way for us...PAINT NUMBERS ON THEM!.Or write up a nice little piece of software that allows you to take a decent digital macro photo of your sprecimens and manipulate it into a nicely referenced data base for easily referenced identification and description. Regards to all...and I had a wondefull time in Tucson..thanks to so many from the List, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Sent: Feb 27, 2010 3:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled stones if they didn't have numbers written directly on them? If say they had been displayed/sold in a bag or box with a label but no markings on, over time would some have have been separated from their boxes/bags and labels? I would hazard a guess that quite a few would have suffered this fate and now we would be left with some unidentifiable stones. Although by saying this i am placing no importance whatsoever on me as an individual collector or my own numbers as being valuable other than to avoid the situation of misidentified or unidentified specimens in the future. As only temporary custodians of our collections surely making sure that our collections can easily be passed on without any missing info is of prime importance? Numbering specimens directly is surely the most foolproof method of achieving this? All the labels on boxes/bags and display stands etc. are meaningless when the specimen is removed. All the photos of the specimen stored either in hard copy or digital form are subject to being lost or destroyed. I know these are all extreme circumstances and most of the time these steps that we take will be absolutely fine as specimens stay with their displays/cards etc. but if there is a possibility, however small of accidents happening should we not do more? As an example of the situation i want to avoid see the photo of the orphaned stone in the article on a recent visit to the Manchester museum (http://www.bimsociety.org/article-manchester.shtml) If this had an original number on it it probably would not be in the situation its in now. Its more than a distinct possibility that this is stone from a historical fall and yet we may never know Anyway, some food for thought! Cheers Martin __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. Offline for now, Tracy Latimer _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
While his contributions were many, I understand LaPaz's egotistical, toxic personality is well documented---including his enmity for Nininger. Best/ Darryl On Feb 27, 2010, at 9:57 AM, al mitt wrote: Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:33:27 +, you wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. A computer model of energy released here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/27/magnitude-8-8-earthquake-off-chile-coast/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
Wow! Thanks for the link Darren. Looks like Hawaii misses the brunt of the full force, but our brothers and sisters in Marquesas, Tahiti and Samoa may feel it more. On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:57 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:33:27 +, you wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. A computer model of energy released here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/27/magnitude-8-8-earthquake-off-chile-coast/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] AD: NWA 6145 Rumurutite R5 (S4/W0) incredible fresh
Hello dear meteorite collectors, a few days ago i got the final classification to my new and incredibly fresh R-chondrites. This material has a level of weathering W0!! R-chondrites are known to be very rare. And much more rarely with a weathering Level W0. The known 1645 NWA numbers could be only a single stone with the weathering level W0 known and that is the NWA 5469. So I think NWA 6145 is my personal stone of the year 2010. NWA 6145 Rumurutite Chondrite R5 (S4 / W0) found 11/2009 Sahara,Northwest-Africe TKW: 310g The 17 listed slices is everything for sale. The total weight was only 310g. Some of the small slices were quickly sold to European collectors. If anyone should be interested in a slice please contact me off list. PayPal payment is accepted. I send the slices by registered air mail to all the world. If someone is too large a slice and there are maybe 3 or 4 interested persons,i would cut a full slice in 3 or 4 beautiful part slices. http://www.meteorite-mirko.de/0334af9d2a0c4b101/index.php Thank you for your interest and best regards, Mirko Mirko Graul Meteorite Quittenring.4 16321 Bernau GERMANY Phone: 0049-1724105015 E-Mail: m_gr...@yahoo.de WEB: www.meteorite-mirko.de Member of The Meteoritical Society (International Society for Meteoritics and Planetery Science) IMCA-Member: 2113 (International Meteorite Collectors Association) __ Do You Yahoo!? Sie sind Spam leid? Yahoo! Mail verfügt über einen herausragenden Schutz gegen Massenmails. http://mail.yahoo.com __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
Things are getting pretty busy here on Oahu. Lines at gas stations are horribly long. Boats are evacuating harbors...The City County has evacuation busses going around the island…the Fire Department is doing evacuation rounds…almost everything is closed...and there's still crazy people out surfing! And no, I'm not talking about Gary. ;) The Earth shook a lot yesterday... 8.8 in Chile last night, a 7.0 near Okinawa yesterday (no tsunami generated), and a 2.5 near the southeast coast of the Big Island yesterday. The Okinawa earthquake is the largest they've had in over 100 years. To my fellow list members in the islands, take care and stay safe. Aloha, Matthew Martin Kaneohe, Hawaii On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:33 AM, tracy latimer wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. Offline for now, Tracy Latimer _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
The U.S. Embassy in Tokyo is transmitting the following information through the Embassy's warden system as a public service to all U.S. citizens in Japan. Please disseminate this message to U.S. citizens in your organizations or to other Americans you know. On Saturday, February 27, 2010, an earthquake measuring 8.8 struck the central coast of Chile early on Saturday morning, according to the U.S. Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii. The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii issued a tsunami warning for the Pacific Region. The warning covered South America, Antarctica, the Pacific Ocean islands including Hawaii, New Zealand, Japan, and Russia. According to the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center website A WIDESPREAD TSUNAMI WARNING IS IN EFFECT and the tsunami will reach Japan as follows: JAPAN - KUSHIRO0435Z 28 FEB (13:35 local time) - KATSUURA 0453Z 28 FEB (13:35 local time) - HACHINOHE 0509Z 28 FEB (14:09 local time) - SHIMIZU0557Z 28 FEB (14:57 local time) - OKINAWA0610Z 28 FEB (15:10 local time) Up-to-date information is available at http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/ OR http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/?region=1 Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com wrote: From: Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert To: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 3:00 AM Things are getting pretty busy here on Oahu. Lines at gas stations are horribly long. Boats are evacuating harbors...The City County has evacuation busses going around the island…the Fire Department is doing evacuation rounds…almost everything is closed...and there's still crazy people out surfing! And no, I'm not talking about Gary. ;) The Earth shook a lot yesterday... 8.8 in Chile last night, a 7.0 near Okinawa yesterday (no tsunami generated), and a 2.5 near the southeast coast of the Big Island yesterday. The Okinawa earthquake is the largest they've had in over 100 years. To my fellow list members in the islands, take care and stay safe. Aloha, Matthew Martin Kaneohe, Hawaii On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:33 AM, tracy latimer wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. Offline for now, Tracy Latimer _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Hello Count, Martin and List, I agree with the Count about painting numbers on specimens. As he points out, Lylle, Huss, Nininger, and others have done it, and so do many museums. I worked (volunteered) with the Curator of Collections in our local Science Museum in 2008 to inventory their collection. In about 97% of all cases, the Accession Number was painted directly on the item in an out of the way place - be it a meteorite, mineral, or other piece in their collection. The exception being, of course, where painting was impossible or problematic. Stick-on labels can fall off as the adhesive can deteriorate with time. I have purchased meteorite specimens with an adhesive label applied to the cut/polished surface, and that is not a problem for me unless the label falls off. Painting the numbers on eliminates that problem as long as the surface is clean, dry, and free of loose particulate matter. One of these days, when I get some time, I plan to label my large-enough specimens with painted-on numbers, do a photographic record, and set up a database for my collection. I have a decent DSLR, bellows, and macro lenses. With a little practice and good lighting, I hope to be able to master macro photography. Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 - Original Message - From: countde...@earthlink.net To: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Good Morning Martin and List, I truly believe that we homo sapiens have a well developed ability to remember past beneficial and not so beneficial actions accomplished by our predecessors in order to guide us when important decisions have to be made. What was good enough for the likes of Lylle, Huss, Nininger, Kurat, Kulik and so many other pioneers and experts in meteorite collection and curatingshould point the way for us...PAINT NUMBERS ON THEM!.Or write up a nice little piece of software that allows you to take a decent digital macro photo of your sprecimens and manipulate it into a nicely referenced data base for easily referenced identification and description. Regards to all...and I had a wondefull time in Tucson..thanks to so many from the List, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Sent: Feb 27, 2010 3:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled stones if they didn't have numbers written directly on them? If say they had been displayed/sold in a bag or box with a label but no markings on, over time would some have have been separated from their boxes/bags and labels? I would hazard a guess that quite a few would have suffered this fate and now we would be left with some unidentifiable stones. Although by saying this i am placing no importance whatsoever on me as an individual collector or my own numbers as being valuable other than to avoid the situation of misidentified or unidentified specimens in the future. As only temporary custodians of our collections surely making sure that our collections can easily be passed on without any missing info is of prime importance? Numbering specimens directly is surely the most foolproof method of achieving this? All the labels on boxes/bags and display stands etc. are meaningless when the specimen is removed. All the photos of the specimen stored either in hard copy or digital form are subject to being lost or destroyed. I know these are all extreme circumstances and most of the time these steps that we take will be absolutely fine as specimens stay with their displays/cards etc. but if there is a possibility, however small of accidents happening should we not do more? As an example of the situation i want to avoid see the photo of the orphaned stone in the article on a recent visit to the Manchester museum (http://www.bimsociety.org/article-manchester.shtml) If this had an original number on it it probably would not be in the situation its in now. Its
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
Things are getting pretty busy here on Oahu. Lines at gas stations are horribly long and several gas stations have run out of gas already. Boats are evacuating harbors...The City County has evacuation busses going around the island. The coastal roads will close in an hour. There's still crazy people out surfing! And no, I'm not talking about Gary. ;) Police helicopters are out telling the surfers to go in… The Earth shook a lot yesterday... 8.8 in Chile last night, a 7.0 near Okinawa yesterday (no tsunami generated), and a 2.5 near the southeast coast of the Big Island yesterday. The Okinawa earthquake is the largest they've had in over 100 years. To my fellow list members in the islands, take care and stay safe. Aloha, Matthew Martin Kaneohe, Hawaii On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:59 AM, Gary Fujihara wrote: Wow! Thanks for the link Darren. Looks like Hawaii misses the brunt of the full force, but our brothers and sisters in Marquesas, Tahiti and Samoa may feel it more. On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:57 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:33:27 +, you wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. A computer model of energy released here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/27/magnitude-8-8-earthquake-off-chile-coast/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
Hey Gary, Matthew, Dirk, Darren and any others living in the predicted path of the tsunami, Why fight the highways and byways? If you, or a friend, has a decent sport fishing boat, or a cat, stock it with beer and pretzels and park a mile, or so off shore and watch the action. Your only physical effect would be your GPS showing you went up and down a few feet. Don't have a boat? You shouldn't have any problem getting a bunch of the panic stricken to cough up the dough to charter one. Think of the wahines! Guido -Original Message- From: drtanuki drtan...@yahoo.com Sent: Feb 27, 2010 2:04 PM To: Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert The U.S. Embassy in Tokyo is transmitting the following information through the Embassy's warden system as a public service to all U.S. citizens in Japan. Please disseminate this message to U.S. citizens in your organizations or to other Americans you know. On Saturday, February 27, 2010, an earthquake measuring 8.8 struck the central coast of Chile early on Saturday morning, according to the U.S. Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii. The Pacific Tsunami Warning Center in Hawaii issued a tsunami warning for the Pacific Region. The warning covered South America, Antarctica, the Pacific Ocean islands including Hawaii, New Zealand, Japan, and Russia. According to the Pacific Tsunami Warning Center website A WIDESPREAD TSUNAMI WARNING IS IN EFFECT and the tsunami will reach Japan as follows: JAPAN - KUSHIRO0435Z 28 FEB (13:35 local time) - KATSUURA 0453Z 28 FEB (13:35 local time) - HACHINOHE 0509Z 28 FEB (14:09 local time) - SHIMIZU0557Z 28 FEB (14:57 local time) - OKINAWA0610Z 28 FEB (15:10 local time) Up-to-date information is available at http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/ OR http://www.prh.noaa.gov/ptwc/?region=1 Dirk Ross...Tokyo --- On Sun, 2/28/10, Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com wrote: From: Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert To: tracy latimer daist...@hotmail.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Date: Sunday, February 28, 2010, 3:00 AM Things are getting pretty busy here on Oahu. Lines at gas stations are horribly long. Boats are evacuating harbors...The City County has evacuation busses going around the island…the Fire Department is doing evacuation rounds…almost everything is closed...and there's still crazy people out surfing! And no, I'm not talking about Gary. ;) The Earth shook a lot yesterday... 8.8 in Chile last night, a 7.0 near Okinawa yesterday (no tsunami generated), and a 2.5 near the southeast coast of the Big Island yesterday. The Okinawa earthquake is the largest they've had in over 100 years. To my fellow list members in the islands, take care and stay safe. Aloha, Matthew Martin Kaneohe, Hawaii On Feb 27, 2010, at 6:33 AM, tracy latimer wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. Offline for now, Tracy Latimer _ Hotmail: Powerful Free email with security by Microsoft. http://clk.atdmt.com/GBL/go/201469230/direct/01/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
Here in new zealand we are supposed to get hit in about an hour and a halfs time but there is none of the activity like you guys in Hawaii has and other than to avoid low lying areas there is no evacuation order. In some Islands down south is being taken more seriously Cheers DEAN --- On Sat, 27/2/10, Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com wrote: From: Matthew Martin mmar...@meteoritetreasures.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert To: Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com, meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Received: Saturday, 27 February, 2010, 11:09 AM Things are getting pretty busy here on Oahu. Lines at gas stations are horribly long and several gas stations have run out of gas already. Boats are evacuating harbors...The City County has evacuation busses going around the island. The coastal roads will close in an hour. There's still crazy people out surfing! And no, I'm not talking about Gary. ;) Police helicopters are out telling the surfers to go in… The Earth shook a lot yesterday... 8.8 in Chile last night, a 7.0 near Okinawa yesterday (no tsunami generated), and a 2.5 near the southeast coast of the Big Island yesterday. The Okinawa earthquake is the largest they've had in over 100 years. To my fellow list members in the islands, take care and stay safe. Aloha, Matthew Martin Kaneohe, Hawaii On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:59 AM, Gary Fujihara wrote: Wow! Thanks for the link Darren. Looks like Hawaii misses the brunt of the full force, but our brothers and sisters in Marquesas, Tahiti and Samoa may feel it more. On Feb 27, 2010, at 7:57 AM, Darren Garrison wrote: On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 16:33:27 +, you wrote: The sirens just went off; Hawaii is expecting a tsunami by 11:00 a.m. locally. We have about 5 hours to evacuate if needed. I'm bugging out after we pack and will be offline for a while. The big problem locally is if the power plant gets inundated, as it is in the flood plain/ central valley of Maui. A computer model of energy released here: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2010/02/27/magnitude-8-8-earthquake-off-chile-coast/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
Al, List, History always decides these rivalries. There will never be a posting on this (or any other) List with the subject Who is Harvey Nininger! Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: al mitt alm...@kconline.com To: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
Remember this, When the government need advice they called on LaPaz, not Nininger! What does that tell you? - Original Message From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: al mitt alm...@kconline.com; Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 1:48:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Al, List, History always decides these rivalries. There will never be a posting on this (or any other) List with the subject Who is Harvey Nininger! Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: al mitt ymailto=mailto:alm...@kconline.com; href=mailto:alm...@kconline.com;alm...@kconline.com To: Shawn Alan href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com; ymailto=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com To: href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the clippings there is a photograph of him standing by the meteorite being lifted out of the ground. I haven't read anything about Dr LaPaz till a week ago and was wondering what significance had he had in the meteorite community? I also Wiki him and from what I saw on Wiki, Dr LaPaz was smart guy and got his PhD at a young age. Lastly, along with the meteorite specimens I also received a trinitite fragment weighing at 1.79g that he had collected from the Trinity project and was wondering if people on the list knew much about this stuff. Shawn Alan __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list ymailto=mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; href=mailto:Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at href=http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html; target=_blank
[meteorite-list] AD-Ebay auctions-NR NWAs
Just in a few hours I have some no reserve auctions ending with very low bids. Also, I am accepting any offers on a very nice 7 kilo unclassified with sweet fusion crust! It looks like a giant Gao. Please see me store here: http://stores.ebay.com/Mile-High-Meteorites Thanks for looking, Matt Morgan -- Matt Morgan Mile High Meteorites http://www.mhmeteorites.com P.O. Box 151293 Lakewood, CO 80215 USA __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] email address question
Hello list, Does anyone have a workable email address for Rodrigo Martinez? Thomas __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] TSUNAMI Live Video Feed from Hawaii
http://www.khon2.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=3299navCatId=4 The tsunami is late, but recession of the sea leavel seems to have begun. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] TSUNAMI Live Video Feed from Hawaii
We are past the ETA of the first waves to arrive, with no significant effects of the tsunami. But there are some large swells sighted on West Hawai'i island. Honoli'i Bay, my local surf break has been picking up in surf at the point. Hawai'i island police have evacuated all low lying areas in Hilo - the place looks like a ghost town (or Hilo town in the 80s). Ala Moana on O'ahu has folks indicating that the reef is starting to show in areas - water receding drastically. On Hawai'i island, from the Naniloa Hotel webcam, water can be seen receding rapidly, causing whitewater over exposed reef in areas that should be underwater. Water is moving out, and perhaps the first wave has not yet come... Water has now moved back in, and the rapids have disappeared. The ocean is changing by the minute, but nothing drastic yet. gary On Feb 27, 2010, at 11:24 AM, Sterling K. Webb wrote: http://www.khon2.com/mediacenter/local.aspx?videoId=3299navCatId=4 The tsunami is late, but recession of the sea leavel seems to have begun. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Gary Fujihara Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693) 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/ http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html (808) 640-9161 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert
On Sat, 27 Feb 2010 11:46:30 -0800 (PST), you wrote: Here in new zealand we are supposed to get hit in about an hour and a halfs time but there is none of the activity like you guys in Hawaii has and other than to avoid low lying areas there is no evacuation order. In some Islands down south is being taken more seriously The squiggles have arrived in NZ: http://www.geonet.org.nz/tsunami/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
Hi, James, It tells me that they knew LaPaz because [In 1942,] LaPaz took leave from Ohio State to the New Mexico Proving Ground during World War II where he was a Research Mathematician, and later as Technical Director, Operations Analysis Section, Second Air Force. This is where he became interested in ballistics as well as meteorites. His work with the Second Air Force included investigation of Japanese Fugo balloon bombs that had reached the United States. He was a past technical advisor with a history of military and government employment, a known quantity (who already had security clearances), and who knew all the other scientists and technologists who would be involved in studying the green fireballs. He was a logical choice, from the standpoint of the government. Nininger was an unknown quantity to them, not associated with any institution, and a less well-known figure by far, even if he was a much better scientist and researcher. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: James Balister balisterja...@att.net To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Remember this, When the government need advice they called on LaPaz, not Nininger! What does that tell you? - Original Message From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: al mitt alm...@kconline.com; Shawn Alan photoph...@yahoo.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 1:48:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Al, List, History always decides these rivalries. There will never be a posting on this (or any other) List with the subject Who is Harvey Nininger! Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: al mitt ymailto=mailto:alm...@kconline.com; href=mailto:alm...@kconline.com;alm...@kconline.com To: Shawn Alan href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com; ymailto=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy sense. Probably because Harvey Nininger was making his living finding and selling meteorites in order to fund his hunts and research. BTW Harvey made attempts to get the scientists and museums of that time to fund his program in order to add to their collections but no one thought it would work except Farrington. Farrington was older and had health problems but wished he could help in Nininger's pursuit. LaPaz was also a hypocrite who frowned on anyone collecting meteorites but after his death a sizeable collection was found in his basement, he was an obvious closet collector. While he didn't help Nininger out, I have always felt that he might have been one of Nininger's inspirations to keep going and not letting anyone get in his way. Same with no one wanting to give Nininger a grant or position at any of the main museums or scientific institutions of that time. It might have drove Nininger to work harder in order to get it done. --AL Mitterling - Original Message - From: Shawn Alan href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com To: href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 12:26 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hello Listers, Its been a crazy day in NYC today with the snow and slush but all has melted and I received a package in the mail today of a Norton County meteorite, weighing at 2.33g from Dr LaPaz collection. Within the package, I also received copies of news paper clippings From the Norton Daily Telegram, dated May 1, 1948 from the meteorite fall, and Dr LaPaz comes up in every article. In one of the
Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz
Hi Sterling! Yes you are right! I have known about LaPaz since the 50's and he was well connected. Tesla also got the shaft by Edison but was well known by the government. Someone here said that Lapaz was not important and we all know that that is far from the truth. - Original Message From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: James Balister balisterja...@att.net; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 4:09:18 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hi, James, It tells me that they knew LaPaz because [In 1942,] LaPaz took leave from Ohio State to the New Mexico Proving Ground during World War II where he was a Research Mathematician, and later as Technical Director, Operations Analysis Section, Second Air Force. This is where he became interested in ballistics as well as meteorites. His work with the Second Air Force included investigation of Japanese Fugo balloon bombs that had reached the United States. He was a past technical advisor with a history of military and government employment, a known quantity (who already had security clearances), and who knew all the other scientists and technologists who would be involved in studying the green fireballs. He was a logical choice, from the standpoint of the government. Nininger was an unknown quantity to them, not associated with any institution, and a less well-known figure by far, even if he was a much better scientist and researcher. Sterling K. Webb - Original Message - From: James Balister ymailto=mailto:balisterja...@att.net; href=mailto:balisterja...@att.net;balisterja...@att.net To: ymailto=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:51 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Remember this, When the government need advice they called on LaPaz, not Nininger! What does that tell you? - Original Message From: Sterling K. Webb ymailto=mailto:sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net; href=mailto:sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net;sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net To: al mitt href=mailto:alm...@kconline.com;alm...@kconline.com; Shawn Alan ymailto=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com; href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com; ymailto=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Sat, February 27, 2010 1:48:14 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Al, List, History always decides these rivalries. There will never be a posting on this (or any other) List with the subject Who is Harvey Nininger! Sterling K. Webb - - Original Message - From: al mitt ymailto=mailto: ymailto=mailto:alm...@kconline.com; href=mailto:alm...@kconline.com;alm...@kconline.com href=mailto: href=mailto:alm...@kconline.com;alm...@kconline.com ymailto=mailto:alm...@kconline.com; href=mailto:alm...@kconline.com;alm...@kconline.com To: Shawn Alan href=mailto: ymailto=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com; href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com ymailto=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com; href=mailto:photoph...@yahoo.com;photoph...@yahoo.com; ymailto=mailto: href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com href=mailto: href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com ymailto=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com; href=mailto:meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com;meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 8:57 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Who is Dr. LaPaz Hi Shawn and all, I am sure that some people will disagree with my assessment of LaPaz, but he organized the collection at the UNM in Albuquerque, New Mexico and seem to want to discredit Dr. Nininger every chance he got. While he did contribute some to the understanding of meteorites he was no giant in the field and didn't contribute as much as Nininger was by any means. A lot of his fame is the Norton County Meteorite that he outbid Nininger on. Nininger was standing on top of the main mass of the Norton County Meteorite when LaPaz and another museum head came onto the site. My understanding that Nininger used some of LaPaz's information to triangulate the fall but it takes more than one set of observations for this. He help organize the Meteortic's Society with Nininger but later tried to get Dr. Nininger thrown out of the society. I believe that Nininger resigned. He did spend a great deal of time trying to make Nininger look bad. The two were obvious rivials but not in a healthy
[meteorite-list] AD:materials for sales
Hello List I have add some good stones for sale; enjoy: http://www.flickr.com/photos/34600...@n07/ who's intressing contact me of the list. best wishes Aid __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Greetings list, It seems to me that even if we paint numbers on our specimens, their identification still relies on whether or not our documentation accompanies them. A number #47.02A doesn't mean anything to future generations unless there is a catalog to indicate what it means. And if all of this is going to rely on a paper/digital catalog, then why bother painting numbers on them at all? I think a catalog with detailed photos can do the job just as well without harming the aesthetics of the piece. I imagine a future collector trying to identify an unlabeled 5.5g meteorite from a known collection. They look in the paper/digital catalog, sorted by weight, and find the photos of any 5.5g pieces. Then they can quickly identify the specimen without having a number painted on 25% of the surface. Although, this makes me wonder if maybe specimens should still have a mark to indicate whose collection/catalog they belonged to. This mark could be smaller and less obtrusive than a full ID number would be. Maybe something like the owner's initials or IMCA number. I guess what I'm saying is that digital cameras make documenting our collections easier than ever before - so let's take advantage of this! Documenting a collection with detailed photos is fun, too. --Noah - Original Message - From: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com To: countde...@earthlink.net; martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 1:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Hello Count, Martin and List, I agree with the Count about painting numbers on specimens. As he points out, Lylle, Huss, Nininger, and others have done it, and so do many museums. I worked (volunteered) with the Curator of Collections in our local Science Museum in 2008 to inventory their collection. In about 97% of all cases, the Accession Number was painted directly on the item in an out of the way place - be it a meteorite, mineral, or other piece in their collection. The exception being, of course, where painting was impossible or problematic. Stick-on labels can fall off as the adhesive can deteriorate with time. I have purchased meteorite specimens with an adhesive label applied to the cut/polished surface, and that is not a problem for me unless the label falls off. Painting the numbers on eliminates that problem as long as the surface is clean, dry, and free of loose particulate matter. One of these days, when I get some time, I plan to label my large-enough specimens with painted-on numbers, do a photographic record, and set up a database for my collection. I have a decent DSLR, bellows, and macro lenses. With a little practice and good lighting, I hope to be able to master macro photography. Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 - Original Message - From: countde...@earthlink.net To: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Good Morning Martin and List, I truly believe that we homo sapiens have a well developed ability to remember past beneficial and not so beneficial actions accomplished by our predecessors in order to guide us when important decisions have to be made. What was good enough for the likes of Lylle, Huss, Nininger, Kurat, Kulik and so many other pioneers and experts in meteorite collection and curatingshould point the way for us...PAINT NUMBERS ON THEM!.Or write up a nice little piece of software that allows you to take a decent digital macro photo of your sprecimens and manipulate it into a nicely referenced data base for easily referenced identification and description. Regards to all...and I had a wondefull time in Tucson..thanks to so many from the List, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Sent: Feb 27, 2010 3:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens All, Thanks for your all your comments on and off list, most interesting. I think i am being steered away from directly labelling my stones unless they are NWA or unclassified. However it seems a bit of a double standard that if i were to label my specimens myself it would be somehow frowned upon yet we as collectors value specimens with Nininger/Huss numbers etc. If for example a specimen was obtained say from the Manchester museum with one of their recently applied labels on would any of us remove the label? I very much doubt it, we would prize that specimen as showing provenance from that collection, that would match their catalogue etc. etc. In 50 or 100 or however many years that specimen would only get more and more historical and that label have more and more importance attached to it. I suppose my point is that would we now have the same number of Nininger/Huss etc.labelled
Re: [meteorite-list] The Convincing Identification of TerrestrialMeteorite Impact Strutures
Hi Sterling: No, you are not paying for it twice. The government (we) pay for the research, but do not pay for the publication costs. I do not think that Science has page charges for authors, so someone has to pay the people who run the magazine, print it, and distribute it (real jobs). Also, some of these magazines actually are in the business to make money (though know that only from second-hand experience). This, however, does not mean that I understand/support the amount of money that Sciencedirect charges as I do not know their cost structure. Larry Thanks, Paul, Few people have been a greater help in filling my hard drive than you. Just in case, others were perplexed by it, the first URL costs $31.50 for the paper: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.10.009 It's the second URL that is the FREE one: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL_tockey=%23TOC%235802%232010%23999019998%231570149%23FLA%23_cdi=5802_pubType=Jview=c_auth=y_acct=C50221_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=10md5=2e423780e17d5ed60d7ca17a1faf9e9b And, yes, the first paper was made available by taxpayer dollars, so we have to pay for it twice... naturally. Thanks for all these sources. (The paper on Astronomical Dating is a good read also.) Sterling K. Webb -- - Original Message - From: Paul Heinrich oxytropidoce...@cox.net To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, February 23, 2010 10:19 PM Subject: [meteorite-list] The Convincing Identification of TerrestrialMeteorite Impact Strutures Frencha, B. M., and C. Koeberl, 2010, The convincing identification of terrestrial meteorite impact structures: What works, what doesn't, and why. Earth-Science Reviews. vol. 98, no. 1-2, pp. 123-170. Abstract at: http://dx.doi.org/10.1016/j.earscirev.2009.10.009 http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=PublicationURL_tockey=%23TOC%235802%232010%23999019998%231570149%23FLA%23_cdi=5802_pubType=Jview=c_auth=y_acct=C50221_version=1_urlVersion=0_userid=10md5=2e423780e17d5ed60d7ca17a1faf9e9b The PDF file for this paper and issue is open access and can be freely downloaded. Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Ed, Count and list, I'd like to second the count's and Ed'd considerations regarding numbering your specimens. Of course most private collectors recognize their individual meteorites. Mix ups are not so much a problem during one's lifetime. At least not unless we don't start to juggle with a couple of hundred specimens which we lend to exhibitions, for research, or have our kid's kindegarden pals sort through them. However, as Dave Gheesling recently has pointed out in his excellent article on Temporary Custodians, sooner or later every collection will be broken up, separated or turned over to the following generation. If no written track on the individual specimens has been kept, the knowledge on these treasures will perish with the previous owner. Dealer and museum curators can tell you stories of collections offered by heirs, where all the information that was passed with a specimen, if any at all, was a name on a crumpled paper card. When pieces are not individually packed, which is also quite common, no safe attribution of specimen cards and meteorites can be untertaken at all. Photos are one way to assign identity to a specimen, but unless you do not have the patience of a Zen monk and you are faced with a collection that has 20 small Gaos, Pultusks, Wilunas and Zags in it, you soon discover the limits of this approach. I very much encourage everyone to undertake the little effort. All that it takes to preserve the identity of a specimen is a printed or digital inventory list, which contains some sort of distinct, non-ambigous assignment of a specimen and the information associated. The pendant should be applied directly on the specimen itself, it's the safest way. Painted numbers in my experience have prooven superior, but other means of course are appropriate too. Safely storing, better publishing or distributing your collection catalogs of course is crucial to preserve that information. There are many and perhaps better examples how one may label and number his specimens, anyway, to get a picture this may be sufficient: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/Meteoritensammlung.htm cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com - Original Message - From: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com To: countde...@earthlink.net; martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Hello Count, Martin and List, I agree with the Count about painting numbers on specimens. As he points out, Lylle, Huss, Nininger, and others have done it, and so do many museums. I worked (volunteered) with the Curator of Collections in our local Science Museum in 2008 to inventory their collection. In about 97% of all cases, the Accession Number was painted directly on the item in an out of the way place - be it a meteorite, mineral, or other piece in their collection. The exception being, of course, where painting was impossible or problematic. Stick-on labels can fall off as the adhesive can deteriorate with time. I have purchased meteorite specimens with an adhesive label applied to the cut/polished surface, and that is not a problem for me unless the label falls off. Painting the numbers on eliminates that problem as long as the surface is clean, dry, and free of loose particulate matter. One of these days, when I get some time, I plan to label my large-enough specimens with painted-on numbers, do a photographic record, and set up a database for my collection. I have a decent DSLR, bellows, and macro lenses. With a little practice and good lighting, I hope to be able to master macro photography. Ed Deckert IMCA #8911 - Original Message - From: countde...@earthlink.net To: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 11:21 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Good Morning Martin and List, I truly believe that we homo sapiens have a well developed ability to remember past beneficial and not so beneficial actions accomplished by our predecessors in order to guide us when important decisions have to be made. What was good enough for the likes of Lylle, Huss, Nininger, Kurat, Kulik and so many other pioneers and experts in meteorite collection and curatingshould point the way for us...PAINT NUMBERS ON THEM!.Or write up a nice little piece of software that allows you to take a decent digital macro photo of your sprecimens and manipulate it into a nicely referenced data base for easily referenced identification and description. Regards to all...and I had a wondefull time in Tucson..thanks to so many from the List, Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com Sent: Feb 27, 2010 3:50 AM To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens All, Thanks for your all your
Re: [meteorite-list] Tsunami alert (Report)
Well, hundreds of people here in Auckland camped out on a hill waiting for the tsunami. A dozen or so people refused to heed the warning and graciously stayed on the beach so that we could all have good video. A cruise ship was moved from the pier and anchored off in the harbour and all ferries in the city was canceled. Hundreds of yachts was out in what is a stunning beautiful summer day today. Unfortunately the tsunami was a bust and nobody on the beach got nominated for a darwin award. We got 2 or 3 minutes of heavy waves in an otherwise beautiful calm day with the water like glass. See here the photo of the extent of the tsunami in Auckland. The calm was broken for a couple minutes and the waves never even went up the beach. http://www.meteoriteshop.com/pictures/tsunami.jpg We did however have a really nice picnic in the park with my two kiddies. You can see the tsunami in the background in this photo behind my two kiddies who are sitting on a WW2 gun. http://www.meteoriteshop.com/pictures/tsunami2.jpg Cheers DEAN __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Hello All, When we decided that we wanted to start numbering our specimens a few years ago, we had a few dilemmas to work out. First-off, how should we apply the numbers? Some of the museum numbers that we'd seen seemed to have a layer of underlying paint with numbers painted over, resulting in a rather large patch of paint, especially on a stone that might weigh a mere gram or so. As such, we decided to write collection numbers directly on the meteorite, so as to cover as little of the meteorite's surface as possible. But - what to use? We pondered the question for a few weeks, and then had an idea - every time we've been to the local Page Museum at the La Brea Tar Pits (repetitive, right?), we've seen every single bone meticulously numbered and cataloged, with fine white numbers 'painted' on each one. So Peter went and asked them; what they use there is what we use now: a fountain pen with white Pelikan ink. http://www.pelikan.com I wasn't able to find the same ink on their website - or any white ink in general, but I do know that they produce it and that it is supplied to an art-supplies store near our house. I think this might be the same ink: http://www.duall.com/store/product/113116.113116/pelikan-drawing-ink-10ml-18-white.html At any rate, it dries quickly and tends to be pretty hard to remove, so it's good for marking specimens. I don't know much about its chemical composition, but we haven't seen any signs of oxidation on or near ink on marked specimens, so I assume that it's not doing much harm. A cheap fountain pen will run you up ten dollars at most (you can check out the Pelikan site for pricier models if you wish), and the ink is a few dollars a bottle. Reasonable, effective. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 3:12 PM, i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de wrote: Ed, Count and list, I'd like to second the count's and Ed'd considerations regarding numbering your specimens. Of course most private collectors recognize their individual meteorites. Mix ups are not so much a problem during one's lifetime. At least not unless we don't start to juggle with a couple of hundred specimens which we lend to exhibitions, for research, or have our kid's kindegarden pals sort through them. However, as Dave Gheesling recently has pointed out in his excellent article on Temporary Custodians, sooner or later every collection will be broken up, separated or turned over to the following generation. If no written track on the individual specimens has been kept, the knowledge on these treasures will perish with the previous owner. Dealer and museum curators can tell you stories of collections offered by heirs, where all the information that was passed with a specimen, if any at all, was a name on a crumpled paper card. When pieces are not individually packed, which is also quite common, no safe attribution of specimen cards and meteorites can be untertaken at all. Photos are one way to assign identity to a specimen, but unless you do not have the patience of a Zen monk and you are faced with a collection that has 20 small Gaos, Pultusks, Wilunas and Zags in it, you soon discover the limits of this approach. I very much encourage everyone to undertake the little effort. All that it takes to preserve the identity of a specimen is a printed or digital inventory list, which contains some sort of distinct, non-ambigous assignment of a specimen and the information associated. The pendant should be applied directly on the specimen itself, it's the safest way. Painted numbers in my experience have prooven superior, but other means of course are appropriate too. Safely storing, better publishing or distributing your collection catalogs of course is crucial to preserve that information. There are many and perhaps better examples how one may label and number his specimens, anyway, to get a picture this may be sufficient: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/Meteoritensammlung.htm cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com - Original Message - From: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com To: countde...@earthlink.net; martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Hello Count, Martin and List, I agree with the Count about painting numbers on specimens. As he points out, Lylle, Huss, Nininger, and others have done it, and so do many museums. I worked (volunteered) with the Curator of Collections in our local Science Museum in 2008 to inventory their collection. In about 97% of all cases, the Accession Number was painted directly on the item in an out of the way place - be it a meteorite, mineral, or other piece in their collection. The exception being, of course, where painting was impossible or problematic. Stick-on labels can fall off as the adhesive can deteriorate with time. I
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Hey Jason and List, Thanks for that very informative cataloging solution. I have also been pondering how to mark meteorites, fossils and artifacts without having to use the white matt paint with black ink overtop. I always thought this old way was rather ugly and distracting from specimens. Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault - Original Message - From: Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com To: i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de; Meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 6:47 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Hello All, When we decided that we wanted to start numbering our specimens a few years ago, we had a few dilemmas to work out. First-off, how should we apply the numbers? Some of the museum numbers that we'd seen seemed to have a layer of underlying paint with numbers painted over, resulting in a rather large patch of paint, especially on a stone that might weigh a mere gram or so. As such, we decided to write collection numbers directly on the meteorite, so as to cover as little of the meteorite's surface as possible. But - what to use? We pondered the question for a few weeks, and then had an idea - every time we've been to the local Page Museum at the La Brea Tar Pits (repetitive, right?), we've seen every single bone meticulously numbered and cataloged, with fine white numbers 'painted' on each one. So Peter went and asked them; what they use there is what we use now: a fountain pen with white Pelikan ink. http://www.pelikan.com I wasn't able to find the same ink on their website - or any white ink in general, but I do know that they produce it and that it is supplied to an art-supplies store near our house. I think this might be the same ink: http://www.duall.com/store/product/113116.113116/pelikan-drawing-ink-10ml-18-white.html At any rate, it dries quickly and tends to be pretty hard to remove, so it's good for marking specimens. I don't know much about its chemical composition, but we haven't seen any signs of oxidation on or near ink on marked specimens, so I assume that it's not doing much harm. A cheap fountain pen will run you up ten dollars at most (you can check out the Pelikan site for pricier models if you wish), and the ink is a few dollars a bottle. Reasonable, effective. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 3:12 PM, i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de wrote: Ed, Count and list, I'd like to second the count's and Ed'd considerations regarding numbering your specimens. Of course most private collectors recognize their individual meteorites. Mix ups are not so much a problem during one's lifetime. At least not unless we don't start to juggle with a couple of hundred specimens which we lend to exhibitions, for research, or have our kid's kindegarden pals sort through them. However, as Dave Gheesling recently has pointed out in his excellent article on Temporary Custodians, sooner or later every collection will be broken up, separated or turned over to the following generation. If no written track on the individual specimens has been kept, the knowledge on these treasures will perish with the previous owner. Dealer and museum curators can tell you stories of collections offered by heirs, where all the information that was passed with a specimen, if any at all, was a name on a crumpled paper card. When pieces are not individually packed, which is also quite common, no safe attribution of specimen cards and meteorites can be untertaken at all. Photos are one way to assign identity to a specimen, but unless you do not have the patience of a Zen monk and you are faced with a collection that has 20 small Gaos, Pultusks, Wilunas and Zags in it, you soon discover the limits of this approach. I very much encourage everyone to undertake the little effort. All that it takes to preserve the identity of a specimen is a printed or digital inventory list, which contains some sort of distinct, non-ambigous assignment of a specimen and the information associated. The pendant should be applied directly on the specimen itself, it's the safest way. Painted numbers in my experience have prooven superior, but other means of course are appropriate too. Safely storing, better publishing or distributing your collection catalogs of course is crucial to preserve that information. There are many and perhaps better examples how one may label and number his specimens, anyway, to get a picture this may be sufficient: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/Meteoritensammlung.htm cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com - Original Message - From: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com To: countde...@earthlink.net; martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com;
Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens
Jason, Very good point. Nothing should ever be done to these little treasures that is not reversible. In other words it should be done with something that will come off later should the need ever arise. Carl . -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Jason Utas meteorite...@gmail.com wrote: Hello All, When we decided that we wanted to start numbering our specimens a few years ago, we had a few dilemmas to work out. First-off, how should we apply the numbers? Some of the museum numbers that we'd seen seemed to have a layer of underlying paint with numbers painted over, resulting in a rather large patch of paint, especially on a stone that might weigh a mere gram or so. As such, we decided to write collection numbers directly on the meteorite, so as to cover as little of the meteorite's surface as possible. But - what to use? We pondered the question for a few weeks, and then had an idea - every time we've been to the local Page Museum at the La Brea Tar Pits (repetitive, right?), we've seen every single bone meticulously numbered and cataloged, with fine white numbers 'painted' on each one. So Peter went and asked them; what they use there is what we use now: a fountain pen with white Pelikan ink. http://www.pelikan.com I wasn't able to find the same ink on their website - or any white ink in general, but I do know that they produce it and that it is supplied to an art-supplies store near our house. I think this might be the same ink: http://www.duall.com/store/product/113116.113116/pelikan-drawing-ink-10ml-18-white.html At any rate, it dries quickly and tends to be pretty hard to remove, so it's good for marking specimens. I don't know much about its chemical composition, but we haven't seen any signs of oxidation on or near ink on marked specimens, so I assume that it's not doing much harm. A cheap fountain pen will run you up ten dollars at most (you can check out the Pelikan site for pricier models if you wish), and the ink is a few dollars a bottle. Reasonable, effective. Regards, Jason On Sat, Feb 27, 2010 at 3:12 PM, i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de i...@niger-meteorite-recon.de wrote: Ed, Count and list, I'd like to second the count's and Ed'd considerations regarding numbering your specimens. Of course most private collectors recognize their individual meteorites. Mix ups are not so much a problem during one's lifetime. At least not unless we don't start to juggle with a couple of hundred specimens which we lend to exhibitions, for research, or have our kid's kindegarden pals sort through them. However, as Dave Gheesling recently has pointed out in his excellent article on Temporary Custodians, sooner or later every collection will be broken up, separated or turned over to the following generation. If no written track on the individual specimens has been kept, the knowledge on these treasures will perish with the previous owner. Dealer and museum curators can tell you stories of collections offered by heirs, where all the information that was passed with a specimen, if any at all, was a name on a crumpled paper card. When pieces are not individually packed, which is also quite common, no safe attribution of specimen cards and meteorites can be untertaken at all. Photos are one way to assign identity to a specimen, but unless you do not have the patience of a Zen monk and you are faced with a collection that has 20 small Gaos, Pultusks, Wilunas and Zags in it, you soon discover the limits of this approach. I very much encourage everyone to undertake the little effort. All that it takes to preserve the identity of a specimen is a printed or digital inventory list, which contains some sort of distinct, non-ambigous assignment of a specimen and the information associated. The pendant should be applied directly on the specimen itself, it's the safest way. Painted numbers in my experience have prooven superior, but other means of course are appropriate too. Safely storing, better publishing or distributing your collection catalogs of course is crucial to preserve that information. There are many and perhaps better examples how one may label and number his specimens, anyway, to get a picture this may be sufficient: http://www.meteorite-recon.com/en/Meteoritensammlung.htm cheers Svend www.meteorite-recon.com - Original Message - From: Ed Deckert edeck...@triad.rr.com To: countde...@earthlink.net; martin goff msgmeteori...@googlemail.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, February 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Labeling specimens Hello Count, Martin and List, I agree with the Count about painting numbers on specimens. As he points out, Lylle, Huss, Nininger, and others have done it, and so do many museums. I worked (volunteered)
[meteorite-list] [More Loaded] NEW Ungrouped Achondrite - NWA 5297
Dear List Members, To my surprise and dismay to a few eBay watchers, all but one of the NWA 5297 specimens sold out so far so I loaded the rest that I have above 1/4-gram in case you were interested in one of these Ungrouped Achondrites! One 1/2-gram piece has two large metal grains! Looks like I priced this unique meteorite aggressively low! :-) Thank you to everyone who has purchased some of these, I appreciate it! Greg On 2/25/10, Greg Hupe gmh...@htn.net wrote: Dear List Members, I would like to announce a new Ungrouped Achondrite, NWA 5297. NWA 5297 is an Ungrouped Achondrite that was found in Morocco in early 2008. A total of nine small dark stones were collected with a combined Total Known Weight of just 130 grams. NWA 5297 does not fit in any of the known classification types, making it a very unusual meteorite. Image of 12.9g main mass: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5297/nwa5297e.jpg Image of 2.9g complete slice with large metal grain: http://www.lunarrock.com/nwa5297/nwa5297f.jpg Classification submitted to the Meteoritical Bulletin for NWA 5297: Northwest Africa 5297 Morocco Find: March 2008 Achondrite (ungrouped) History: Found near Alargoug, Morocco in March 2008 and purchased in June 2008 by Greg Hupé from a Moroccan dealer. Physical characteristics: A total of nine dark stones with visible metal and a combined weight of 130 g. Petrography: (A. Irving and S. Kuehner, UWS) This specimen has a poikiloblastic metamorphic texture with no chondrules and contains relatively abundant (~10 vol. %) Ni-rich metal. The major phases are olivine, orthopyroxene, taenite and very sodic plagioclase with minor Ni-bearing troilite. Geochemistry: Olivine (Fa28.6, FeO/MnO = 54.4), plagioclase (Ab86.2An9.1Or4.7), taenite (~10 wt.% Ni). Oxygen Isotopes (D. Rumble, CIW): replicate analyses of acid-washed silicate material by laser fluorination gave, respectively: d18O = 4.830, 5.032; d17O = 3.711, 3.818; D17O = 1.171, 1.171 per mil. Classification: Achondrite (ungrouped). This specimen is a metachondrite with an oxygen isotopic composition like those of LL chondrites; however, it contains too much metal to be regarded as a product of metamorphism of typical LL chondrites, and the olivine composition is outside the range for equilibrated LL chondrites. Specimens: A total of 20 g of sample and one polished thin section are on deposit at UWS. The main mass is held by Mr. Greg Hupé (GHupé). Enjoy! Best regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection NaturesVault (eBay) gmh...@htn.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 Click here for my current eBay auctions: http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list -- Mike Gilmer - Galactic Stone Ironworks Meteorites http://www.galactic-stone.com http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Impacts and Australian Aboriginal Geomythology
1. Hamacher, D.W., and P. P. Norris, 2009, Australian Aboriginal Geomythology: eyewitness accounts of cosmic impacts? Archaeoastronomy. vol. ??, No. ??, pp. ??-??. http://74.125.155.132/search?q=cache:kqaMcpBN-zEJ:www.warawara.mq.edu.au/aboriginal_astronomy/literature/Aboriginal_Cosmic_Impacts.pdf+Australian+Aboriginal+Geomythology:+eyewitness+accounts+of+cosmic+impacts%3Fcd=2hl=enct=clnkgl=us Hamacher, D. W, 2009, Meteorite Falls and Cosmic Impacts in Australian Aboriginal Mythology. 72nd Annual Meeting of the Meteoritical Society, held July 13-18, 2009 in Nancy, France. Published in Meteoritics and Planetary Science Supplement., p.5005 http://www.lpi.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2009/pdf/5005.pdf http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2009M%26PSA..72.5005H Duane Willis Hamacher II CURRICULUM VITAE http://www.warawara.mq.edu.au/pdf/duane_cv.pdf http://mq.academia.edu/DuaneHamacher This Vitae lists some other impact related papers: Hamacher, D.W., and P. P. Norris, 2010, “Falling Star at Puka”: using Aboriginal oral traditions to locate undiscovered meteorite falls and impact craters. In Ilgarijiri – things belonging to the sky, edited by Ray Norris. Proceedings of the AIATSIS symposium on Australian Indigenous Astronomy, 27 November 2009, Canberra, Australia, Aboriginal Studies Press. Hamacher, D.W., C. O’Neill, A. Buchel, and T. R. Britton, 2010, A newly discovered meteorite crater in Palm Valley, Central Australia. Meteoritics Planetary Science - in preparation 2. Emu Dreaming! - Aboriginal Astronomy http://www.warawara.mq.edu.au/aboriginal_astronomy/ Literature on Aboriginal Astonomy Aboriginal Cultures http://www.warawara.mq.edu.au/aboriginal_astronomy/literature.php This page includes: Bevan, A., and P. Bindon, 1996, Australian Aborigines and Meteorites. Records of the Western Australian Museum. vol. 18, pp. 93-101. Also, there is a full length web page about the proposed Palm Valley impact crater within the Finke Gorge National Park in the Northern Territory, Australia. It is “Google, Dreaming lead to crater discovery” – the REAL story... from the horse’s mouth at: http://www.warawara.mq.edu.au/aboriginal_astronomy/Puka.htm 3. Ray Norris's Publications (complete list) http://www.atnf.csiro.au/people/rnorris/papers/papers.htm Norris, R. P., and D. W. Hamacher, 2009, The Astronomy of Aboriginal Australia. in The Role of Astronomy in Society and Culture Proceedings, D. Valls-Gabaud and A. Boksenberg, eds., pp. 10-17. IAU Symposium No. 260, 2009 http://www.warawara.mq.edu.au/aboriginal_astronomy/literature/Norris_Hamacher_2009.pdf 4. Geomythology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myth_and_geology Yours, Paul H. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
