Re: [meteorite-list] ebay restriction on international auctions of meteorites?

2011-09-23 Thread Craig Moody

Gary, did you try to re-list it again?  Haven't they heard of free enterprise?  
I can understand if if was a Canadian meteorite being sold out of Canada 
without an export permit, but it's you Gary! THE FUJMON!!! and we still love 
you.
 
byw congrats on the nomination and good luck in the elections!


 From: fuj...@mac.com
 Date: Thu, 22 Sep 2011 12:57:33 -1000
 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
 Subject: [meteorite-list] ebay restriction on international auctions of 
 meteorites?

 Aloha,

 I was working on inputing my lineup of offerings on ebay's scheduler, when I 
 received the following emails from ebay stating they are removing the 
 international site visibility feature. Here's what the message says:

  You recently created or revised this eBay listing that included the 
  International Site Visibility feature:
 
  230676640288 NEW! NWA 6929 H4 (S2,W2) 2.77g Meteorite Full Slice,
 
  However, we had to remove International Site Visibility from your listing. 
  Of course, we won't be charging you the fee for it.
 
  Because the laws and eBay policies vary by country, sometimes items that 
  can be listed in your country can't be listed internationally. It's also 
  possible that the listing itself violated an eBay policy in another 
  country. In situations like this, we automatically remove the International 
  Site Visibility feature from the listing.
 
  We're sorry for the inconvenience this causes.

 Anyone else experience this? I never have.

 Gary Fujihara
 Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
 http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html
 (808) 640-9161

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[meteorite-list] Meteoritics

2011-09-23 Thread Peter Scherff
Hi,

I am looking for the following issues of meteoritics:
Volume 2all
Volume 3all
Volume 4all
Volume 5all
Volume 6all
Volume 26   all
Volume 27   all
Volume 28   #1  #2
Volume 31   #6

Anyone have some for sale?

Thanks,

Peter Scherff

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Re: [meteorite-list] eBay restriction on international auctions of meteorites?

2011-09-23 Thread cdtucson
Gary,
This has happened to me many times before. In most cases you can simply change 
the listing slightly and re list it.
In some of the cases I was selling antique ivory or swords and there are 
countries that do forbid these objects. When I called eBay about the sword 
listing they told me in Portugal NO weapons are allowed to be purchased by it's 
citizens so, eBay will not allow international listings of weapons of any kind. 
But, again usually a call to eBay can straighten out these messes. dial 
866-907-3229 and prompt to continue without a pin number and ask to speak with 
a rep. 
On another note eBay has been sued and lost cases many times. The most recent 
hit ebat took involved a seller selling fake Tiffany antiques. For this now 
most sellers some day soon may be required to have stuff authenticated by a 
licensed appraiser prior to listing the Name Brand stuff for sale.
Yes, it is getting tougher out there. 
Cheers,
Carl
meteoritemax
--




 
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty 
is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote. 





  

 

 Gary Fujihara fuj...@mac.com wrote: 
 Aloha,
 
 I was working on inputing my lineup of offerings on ebay's scheduler, when I 
 received the following emails from ebay stating they are removing the 
 international site visibility feature.  Here's what the message says:
 
  You recently created or revised this eBay listing that included the 
  International Site Visibility feature:
  
  230676640288 NEW! NWA 6929 H4 (S2,W2) 2.77g Meteorite Full Slice,
  
  However, we had to remove International Site Visibility from your listing. 
  Of course, we won't be charging you the fee for it.
  
  Because the laws and eBay policies vary by country, sometimes items that 
  can be listed in your country can't be listed internationally. It's also 
  possible that the listing itself violated an eBay policy in another 
  country. In situations like this, we automatically remove the International 
  Site Visibility feature from the listing.
  
  We're sorry for the inconvenience this causes.
 
 Anyone else experience this?  I never have.
 
 Gary Fujihara
 Big Kahuna Meteorites (IMCA#1693)
 105 Puhili Place, Hilo, Hawai'i 96720
 http://bigkahuna-meteorites.com/
 http://shop.ebay.com/fujmon/m.html  
 (808) 640-9161
 
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[meteorite-list] New MPOD

2011-09-23 Thread valparint
Hello Listees.

On October 1st, I'm launching a new Meteorite Picture of the Day (MPOD) site. 
If you would like to participate, please email pics and info (meteorite name, 
attribution, description, picture file, and copyright info) to me at 
valpar...@aol.com. 800x600 is a good size-target for the picture, but, hey, 
whatever you have!

Thanks.

Paul Swartz
IMCA 5204
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Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

2011-09-23 Thread Craig Moody

Hello List and candidates:
I have a statement/question for all the candidates...
 
As a newcommer to this forum, I was quite disheartened when all there was, it 
seemed, was bickering and squabbling between members with a whole lot of 
finger-pointing and acusations flying all around.  People were calling others 
cheats and liars, without full knowlege of the situations at hand, and it was 
almost depressing.  My question is...What would you do to try and curb this 
nonsense, and to keep this forum on the right track?
 
Good luck to all the candidates, your responses will determine my votes.

Cheers,
Craig #6276
 



 From: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
 To: i...@imcamail.de
 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:53:32 -0700
 Subject: [IMCA] Elections

 Hello again,
 I just wanted to echo John's post re the lack of
 posts from the members regarding the upcoming election.

 Not counting the 5 emails from Anne and Maria,there are,
 that I know of, 28 posts to the IMCA list regarding this election,
 the vast majority from John with myself as a distant 2nd place.
 There have been only five candidates that have made a statement,
 with nothing from the last two.
 There were a few of the congrats for running and only 2 that
 were actual questions for the candidates.

 We need your input so that we will become flesh and blood
 people and not just a name on a piece of paper.
 I know some of you through business dealings and the reverse
 would be true, those few would know me.

 Please, members, speak up! Ask those of us running any questions
 that you feel we need to address so that you will know who to
 support.

 Lastly, I know that I would like to get to know more members,
 so to that end, I am running for a position on the board.

 Thank you all,
 Pete Shugar
 IMCA 1733











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 i...@imcamail.de
 http://lists.imcamail.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/imca
   
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Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

2011-09-23 Thread Elizabeth Warner

Hi Craig,

I'm on [meteorite-list] but not a member of IMCA (since I don't sell 
meteorites). I believe your question was posted to the wrong place. I 
don't see how IMCA officers have anything to do with what goes on on the 
[meteorite-list]. Yes, IMCA officers and members are also members of 
this list, but my understanding was this was separate from IMCA...


Perhaps you posted to the wrong list??

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth


On 9/23/2011 2:19 PM, Craig Moody wrote:


Hello List and candidates:
I have a statement/question for all the candidates...

As a newcommer to this forum, I was quite disheartened when all there was, it 
seemed, was bickering and squabbling between members with a whole lot of 
finger-pointing and acusations flying all around.  People were calling others 
cheats and liars, without full knowlege of the situations at hand, and it was 
almost depressing.  My question is...What would you do to try and curb this 
nonsense, and to keep this forum on the right track?

Good luck to all the candidates, your responses will determine my votes.

Cheers,
Craig #6276





From: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
To: i...@imcamail.de
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:53:32 -0700
Subject: [IMCA] Elections

Hello again,
I just wanted to echo John's post re the lack of
posts from the members regarding the upcoming election.

Not counting the 5 emails from Anne and Maria,there are,
that I know of, 28 posts to the IMCA list regarding this election,
the vast majority from John with myself as a distant 2nd place.
There have been only five candidates that have made a statement,
with nothing from the last two.
There were a few of the congrats for running and only 2 that
were actual questions for the candidates.

We need your input so that we will become flesh and blood
people and not just a name on a piece of paper.
I know some of you through business dealings and the reverse
would be true, those few would know me.

Please, members, speak up! Ask those of us running any questions
that you feel we need to address so that you will know who to
support.

Lastly, I know that I would like to get to know more members,
so to that end, I am running for a position on the board.

Thank you all,
Pete Shugar
IMCA 1733











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[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: September 19-23, 2011

2011-09-23 Thread Ron Baalke

MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES
September 19-23, 2011

o Channel (19 September 2011)
  http://themis.asu.edu/node/5729

o Rabe Crater Dunes (20 September 2011)
  http://themis.asu.edu/node/5730

o Windstreaks (21 September 2011)
  http://themis.asu.edu/node/5731

o Daedalia Planum (22 September 2011)
  http://themis.asu.edu/node/5732

o Juventae Chasma (23 September 2011)
  http://themis.asu.edu/node/5733


All of the THEMIS images are archived here:

http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html

NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission 
for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission 
Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University,
Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. 
The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State 
University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor 
for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission 
operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a 
division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. 



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Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

2011-09-23 Thread Elizabeth Warner
Well, that's possible, but our list wasn't part of the original 
discussion... He had to add it in to his recipients list when he sent 
his message...


Clear Skies!
Elizabeth


On 9/23/2011 2:51 PM, Michael Gilmer wrote:

Hi Elizabeth,

I think he hit Reply All and instead of just replying to the IMCA list.

This happens on occasion.  It provides a sneak peek into IMCA dealings
for non-members.  I'm sure Craig is going to have the Riot Act read to
him in private by some IMCA members for doing that.

I'll just sit here, eat my popcorn, and enjoy the show. ;)

Craig is a good guy, so hopefully they don't tar and feather him for it.  LOL

Best regards,

MikeG
Non-IMCA #0001


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[meteorite-list] Oregon/Washington/California? Fireball Meteor 21SEP2011

2011-09-23 Thread drtanuki
Dear List,  I have just posted over 20 sighting reports for the 
Oregon/Washington/Calf. event of ~8:10 pm 21SEP2011:
http://lunarmeteoritehunters.blogspot.com/2011/09/oregon-meteor-fireball-21sep2011.html

Thank you.  Dirk RossTokyo
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Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

2011-09-23 Thread Count Deiro
Hi Elizabeth,

I'm sure the members of IMCA would all welcome you as a member. You see it is 
the .Meteorite Collectors Association...not the Sellers. :0)

Count Deiro
IMCA 3536

-Original Message-
From: Elizabeth Warner warne...@astro.umd.edu
Sent: Sep 23, 2011 11:35 AM
To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

Hi Craig,

I'm on [meteorite-list] but not a member of IMCA (since I don't sell 
meteorites). I believe your question was posted to the wrong place. I 
don't see how IMCA officers have anything to do with what goes on on the 
[meteorite-list]. Yes, IMCA officers and members are also members of 
this list, but my understanding was this was separate from IMCA...

Perhaps you posted to the wrong list??

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth


On 9/23/2011 2:19 PM, Craig Moody wrote:

 Hello List and candidates:
 I have a statement/question for all the candidates...

 As a newcommer to this forum, I was quite disheartened when all there was, 
 it seemed, was bickering and squabbling between members with a whole lot of 
 finger-pointing and acusations flying all around.  People were calling 
 others cheats and liars, without full knowlege of the situations at hand, 
 and it was almost depressing.  My question is...What would you do to try and 
 curb this nonsense, and to keep this forum on the right track?

 Good luck to all the candidates, your responses will determine my votes.

 Cheers,
 Craig #6276



 
 From: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
 To: i...@imcamail.de
 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:53:32 -0700
 Subject: [IMCA] Elections

 Hello again,
 I just wanted to echo John's post re the lack of
 posts from the members regarding the upcoming election.

 Not counting the 5 emails from Anne and Maria,there are,
 that I know of, 28 posts to the IMCA list regarding this election,
 the vast majority from John with myself as a distant 2nd place.
 There have been only five candidates that have made a statement,
 with nothing from the last two.
 There were a few of the congrats for running and only 2 that
 were actual questions for the candidates.

 We need your input so that we will become flesh and blood
 people and not just a name on a piece of paper.
 I know some of you through business dealings and the reverse
 would be true, those few would know me.

 Please, members, speak up! Ask those of us running any questions
 that you feel we need to address so that you will know who to
 support.

 Lastly, I know that I would like to get to know more members,
 so to that end, I am running for a position on the board.

 Thank you all,
 Pete Shugar
 IMCA 1733











 ___
 IMCA mailing list
 i...@imcamail.de
 http://lists.imcamail.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/imca  
 
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[meteorite-list] AD..... Mars Display Box Lot Sale

2011-09-23 Thread Jim Strope
Is anyone interested in a lot of Mars Display boxes originally produced by 
Chladni's Heirs?

These Mars display boxes have specimens of NWA 4766, sold as a lot only.  
Shipped to the US only.

Here is the inventory  NOTE:  I FORGOT TO PUT THE 12 BOXES WITH 9MG SPECIMENS 
IN THE PHOTOS.  THEY ARE AN ASSORTMENT OF THE SAME OUTSIDE PICTURES AS THE 
LARGER SIZES.

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/1aaa.JPG

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/1.JPG

9mg - 12 boxes

10mb - 2 boxes

11mg - 9 boxes

12mg - 8 boxes

13mg - 16 boxes

14mg - 8 boxes

That is a total of 55 boxes $700- Including US Postal priority shipping

Let me know.

Jim Strope 
421 Fourth Street 
Glen Dale, WV  26038 

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/ 

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[meteorite-list] AD..... Mars Display Box Lot Sale ----- SOLD!!!!!

2011-09-23 Thread Jim Strope
That was fast!

Jim Strope
421 Fourth Street
Glen Dale, WV  26038

http://www.catchafallingstar.com/

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Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

2011-09-23 Thread Craig Moody

I am sorry everyone, for posting this on the wrong list...I have taken it upon 
myself, to give me a good beating about the face and neck.well not really, 
but I am sorry.
 
Craig


 Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 19:40:56 +
 From: richardli...@comcast.net
 To: i...@imcamail.de
 Subject: Re: [IMCA] [meteorite-list] Elections

 In regards to the Metlist.
 I agree and have seen these predators on the Metlist waste no time for the 
 first opportunity to begin their IMCA belittling and bashing.Thankfully only 
 a few on there will praise this childish behavior.So to avoid feeding 
 opportunities like this to these individuals, choose your words very 
 carefully before you hit SEND. Ruin their moment of self glory.


 Dick (Richard Lipke) ,IMCA 1155




 - Original Message -
  Hello Craig:
 
  I will respond to your question and to Pete's question about why I
  (one of
  the last two candidates to put out my statement) have not put out my
  statement yet.
 
  My statement will be coming out soon, but I have held off for one
  important reason:
 
  A question that was asked had to do with the IMCA's budget. While I
  have
  my own personal opinions, I am also a member of the IMCA Board and we
  were
  having discussions as to what we needed to say and the best method for
  distributing this to the membership (and only the IMCA membership). My
  official statement, now that the budget question has been addressed,
  will
  come out later today or early tomorrow (Tucson time).
 
  Now to address, in part, your question. As Elizabeth just posted on
  the
  Metlist, what you have done (unintentionally) has been part of the
  problem
  that we are facing. You wished to ask a question of the IMCA members,
  but
  sent your question to the entire Metlist, probably getting to less
  than
  half of the IMCA members! Discussions that should be occuring only
  among
  IMCA members gets posted on the Metlist. When this happens, many IMCA
  members are left out of the discussion and, unfortunately, people who
  should not be involved in the discussions add their two cents (or
  more)
  and things con then get out of hand. I think that if you were to look
  at
  where the accusations that you refer to come from, they are not always
  (and probably rarely) from IMCA members, but others who are on the
  Metlist.
 
  This was one of the dilemmas the Board faced with respect to the
  Budget:
  what is discussed on the IMCA list should stay on the IMCA list and
  has no
  business on the Metlist.
 
  Larry Lebofsky
  IMCA #2151 and IMCA Board Member and candidate for re-election
 
  
   Hello List and candidates:
   I have a statement/question for all the candidates...
  
   As a newcommer to this forum, I was quite disheartened when all
   there was,
   it seemed, was bickering and squabbling between members with a whole
   lot
   of finger-pointing and acusations flying all around. People were
   calling
   others cheats and liars, without full knowlege of the situations at
   hand,
   and it was almost depressing. My question is...What would you do to
   try
   and curb this nonsense, and to keep this forum on the right track?
  
   Good luck to all the candidates, your responses will determine my
   votes.
  
   Cheers,
   Craig #6276
  
  
  
   
   From: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
   To: i...@imcamail.de
   Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:53:32 -0700
   Subject: [IMCA] Elections
  
   Hello again,
   I just wanted to echo John's post re the lack of
   posts from the members regarding the upcoming election.
  
   Not counting the 5 emails from Anne and Maria,there are,
   that I know of, 28 posts to the IMCA list regarding this election,
   the vast majority from John with myself as a distant 2nd place.
   There have been only five candidates that have made a statement,
   with nothing from the last two.
   There were a few of the congrats for running and only 2 that
   were actual questions for the candidates.
  
   We need your input so that we will become flesh and blood
   people and not just a name on a piece of paper.
   I know some of you through business dealings and the reverse
   would be true, those few would know me.
  
   Please, members, speak up! Ask those of us running any questions
   that you feel we need to address so that you will know who to
   support.
  
   Lastly, I know that I would like to get to know more members,
   so to that end, I am running for a position on the board.
  
   Thank you all,
   Pete Shugar
   IMCA 1733
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections

2011-09-23 Thread MexicoDoug

Hi Elizabeth,

I  agreed with your post and got a kick out of some of the replies to 
it.  I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, so I just consider myself 
a provisional IMCA member (which is one tier above an unclassified 
IMCAer) since I was in on it founding when things were free, and I 
recall a a year more, but decided to save the $100-$200 since then as 
I've never had a problem in thousands of interchanges, knock on wood 
;-).  But that could change in an instant ;-( though I don't know if 
anybody could remedy much if you go in good faith to start with and 
someone else is a bad apple.


Really though, IMCA stuff should be kept 100% on that list or in 
private for a number of reasons


- for politics, we on the list cannot know the complete story so it is 
Palin or Obama spam at worst and advertising at best which should be 
within the IMCA and subject to its rules, if by candidates up for 
election on a level playing field as we assume all are qualified and 
the electorate is educated to make decisions based on personal 
inclinations.
- because some people are sensitive to public peer pressures to pay for 
something they may not yet have a need and otherwise might actualy have 
already joined if not for the stigma of arm-twisting.
- because the IMCA should not expose any of its mullings to the public 
to accomplish the primary goal of presenting an effective force to get 
things accomplished rather than getting sidetracked with nonsensical 
detail noise which can be misinterpreted by others
- because the IMCA can be misquoted by corresponding in good faith in a 
contenscious situation that can later become distorted because someone 
became disgruntled about who knows what, and later the IMCA can't 
respond to such manipulation without exposing confidential information


As a matter of fact, the IMCA shares a lot in common with judges in 
Mexico.  That is why by law they are only allowed to speak through 
their resolutions and decisions.  Kind of takes the fun away from going 
to court there...oops sorry for the mumbling, it's been a dasterdly day.


Good luck to you and to all those involved in this!

Kindest wishes and good seeing!
Doug


-Original Message-
From: Elizabeth Warner warne...@astro.umd.edu
To: meteorite-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Sent: Fri, Sep 23, 2011 2:34 pm
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] [IMCA] Elections


Hi Craig,

I'm on [meteorite-list] but not a member of IMCA (since I don't sell
meteorites). I believe your question was posted to the wrong place. I
don't see how IMCA officers have anything to do with what goes on on 
the

[meteorite-list]. Yes, IMCA officers and members are also members of
this list, but my understanding was this was separate from IMCA...

Perhaps you posted to the wrong list??

Clear Skies!
Elizabeth


On 9/23/2011 2:19 PM, Craig Moody wrote:


Hello List and candidates:
I have a statement/question for all the candidates...

As a newcommer to this forum, I was quite disheartened when all there 

was, it
seemed, was bickering and squabbling between members with a whole lot 
of
finger-pointing and acusations flying all around.  People were calling 
others
cheats and liars, without full knowlege of the situations at hand, and 
it was
almost depressing.  My question is...What would you do to try and curb 
this

nonsense, and to keep this forum on the right track?


Good luck to all the candidates, your responses will determine my 

votes.


Cheers,
Craig #6276





From: pshu...@messengersfromthecosmos.com
To: i...@imcamail.de
Date: Fri, 23 Sep 2011 10:53:32 -0700
Subject: [IMCA] Elections

Hello again,
I just wanted to echo John's post re the lack of
posts from the members regarding the upcoming election.

Not counting the 5 emails from Anne and Maria,there are,
that I know of, 28 posts to the IMCA list regarding this election,
the vast majority from John with myself as a distant 2nd place.
There have been only five candidates that have made a statement,
with nothing from the last two.
There were a few of the congrats for running and only 2 that
were actual questions for the candidates.

We need your input so that we will become flesh and blood
people and not just a name on a piece of paper.
I know some of you through business dealings and the reverse
would be true, those few would know me.

Please, members, speak up! Ask those of us running any questions
that you feel we need to address so that you will know who to
support.

Lastly, I know that I would like to get to know more members,
so to that end, I am running for a position on the board.

Thank you all,
Pete Shugar
IMCA 1733











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[meteorite-list] (no subject)

2011-09-23 Thread Matson, Robert D.
Resending in plaintext format...

Hi All,

Frank and others have expressed interest in potential reentry locations
for UARS later today. Here are my calculations of land possibilities
from
23 September 20:00 UT to 24 September 00:00 UT  (1pm-5pm PDT,
4pm-8pm EDT) and the estimated altitude at the time of each country
overflight:

September 23, 2011

20:05-20:06 Papua/New Guinea 158 km
20:16 New Zealand 169 km
20:38-20:48 Chile/Argentina/Bolivia/Brazil  152 km
21:04 Southern England  159 km
21:06 Denmark  160 km
21:07 Southernmost Sweden 160 km
21:08-21:17 Russia 159 km
21:17-21:25 China 156 km
21:25-21:28 Vietnam 155 km
21:30-21:34 Malaysia/Indonesia  155 km
21:36-21:43 Australia 159-166 km
21:44 Tasmania 167 km
22:12-22:15 Peru  151 km
22:15-22:17 Colombia  150 km
22:17-22:18  Venezuela  150 km
22:35  Scotland  159 km
22:38 Sweden  159 km
22:39-22:48 Russia  159-156 km
22:48-22:49 Afghanistan 155 km
22:49-22:50 Pakistan 155 km
22:50-22:54 India  154 km
23:08-23:09 Southwest tip of Australia  162 km
23:47 Honduras  148 km
23:49 Cuba  149 km
23:50 Bahamas 149 km
23:58 Eastern Newfoundland 154 km

In my opinion, reentry is unlikely during this 4-hour stretch, but I
wanted to get it out there in case the orbital decay rate suddenly
accelerates in the next few hours. I will post predictions for the
more-likely 0:00 UT - 4:00 UT window a little later using the
freshest orbital elements I can get.

Due to the earth's oblateness and UARS' very circular orbit,
reentry is more likely to occur at lower latitudes (30 south to
30 north) than elsewhere.  -Rob

From: imca-boun...@imcamail.de [mailto:imca-boun...@imcamail.de] On
Behalf Of Frank Meteorites
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 8:37 AM
To: i...@imcamail.de
Subject: [IMCA] UARS Re-Entry unsure when

Hello dearest IMCA Members
 
I am searching and considering all possible sources available worldwide
to kinda make out, if it would be an effort to stay awake for some hours
getting an opportunity to watch a possible NASA's UARS re-entry to
earth's atmosphere.
I would be very eager - if not possible to watch it with my own eyes -
even to pursue it's last travel in the internet.
 
Does anybody have a clue of a reliable source in the internet to see
it's momentary heighth and ground track?
I have considered nasa's official site, space weather, heavens above.
But no satisfying source could tell, what's happing in real time.
I cannot believe this. I'm sure there are hundreds of employees sitting
in front of some screens observing the doomed satellite.
 
Kindest regards from Switzerland
#5002
Frank Holler (...not only collecting meteorites)
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[meteorite-list] UARS Fiery Return Now Expected Overnight Tonight

2011-09-23 Thread Ron Baalke

http://www.spaceflightnow.com/news/n1109/23uars/

Satellite's fiery return now expected overnight tonight
BY WILLIAM HARWOOD
STORY WRITTEN FOR CBS NEWS SPACE PLACE
 USED WITH PERMISSION
September 23, 2011

NASA's decommissioned Upper Atmosphere Research Satellite, out of gas
and out of control, is not descending toward re-entry as rapidly as
expected, officials say, likely delaying the satellite's kamikaze plunge
to Earth by a few hours to late Friday or early Saturday. Experts expect
more than two dozen chunks of debris to survive re-entry and hit the
ground in a 500-mile-long footprint somewhere along the satellite's
orbital track.

But given the bus-size 6.3-ton's satellite's trajectory and the vast
areas of ocean and sparsely populated areas UARS passes over, experts
say it is unlikely any falling debris will result in injuries or
significant property damage. Additional radar tracking is required to
pinpoint when -- and where -- the satellite will make its final descent.

As of 10:30 a.m. EDT on Sept. 23, 2011, the orbit of UARS was 100 miles
by 105 miles (160 km by 170 km), NASA said in a brief update. Re-entry
is expected late Friday, Sept. 23, or early Saturday, Sept. 24, Eastern
Daylight Time. Solar activity is no longer the major factor in the
satellite's rate of descent. The satellite's orientation or
configuration apparently has changed, and that is now slowing its descent.

There is a low probability any debris that survives re-entry will land
in the United States, but the possibility cannot be discounted because
of this changing rate of descent. It is still too early to predict the
time and location of re-entry with any certainty, but predictions will
become more refined in the next 12 to 18 hours.

A subsequent update from U.S. Strategic Command, which operates a global
radar network used to monitor more than 20,000 objects in low-Earth
orbit, predicted the satellite would re-enter sometime around 11:34 p.m.
EDT Friday as the spacecraft flies over the southern Indian Ocean. But
the prediction was uncertain by several hours and at orbital velocities
of 5 miles per second, just 10-minutes of uncertainty translates into
3,000 miles of uncertainty in position.

The centerpiece of a $750 million mission, the Upper Atmosphere Research
satellite was launched from the shuttle Discovery in September 1991. The
solar-powered satellite studied a wide variety of atmospheric phenomena,
including the depletion of Earth's ozone layer 15 to 30 miles up.

The long-lived satellite was decommissioned in 2005 and one side of its
orbit was lowered using the last of its fuel to hasten re-entry and
minimize the chances of orbital collisions that could produce even more
orbital debris. No more fuel is available for maneuvering and the
satellite's re-entry will be uncontrolled.

Nick Johnson, chief scientist with NASA's Orbital Debris Program at the
Johnson Space Center in Houston, told reporters last week he expects
most of the satellite to burn up as it slams into the dense lower
atmosphere at more than 17,000 mph. But computer software used to
analyze possible re-entry outcomes predicts 26 pieces of debris will
survive to impact the surface in a 500-mile-long down-range footprint.

We looked at those 26 pieces and how big they are and we've looked at
the fact they can hit anywhere in the world between 57 north and 57
south and we looked at what the population density of the world is, he
said. Numerically, it comes out to a chance of 1-in-3,200 that one
person anywhere in the world might be struck by a piece of debris. Those
are obviously very, very low odds that anybody's going to be impacted by
this debris.

For comparison, some 42.5 tons of wreckage from the shuttle Columbia hit
the ground in a footprint stretching from central Texas to Louisiana
when the orbiter broke apart during re-entry in 2003. No one on the
ground was injured and no significant property damage was reported.

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[meteorite-list] UARS reentry (continued)

2011-09-23 Thread Matson, Robert D.
Hi again,

Here are my land overflight reentry possibilities for 24 September
00:00-04:00 UT (Friday Night 23 September 5pm-9pm PDT, 8pm-midnight
EDT):

September 24, 2011 (UT)

00:05-00:06 Scotland  157 km
00:08 Denmark  157 km
00:08-00:10 Poland  157 km
00:10-00:12 Ukraine  156 km
00:14-00:15 NE Turkey  154 km
00:15-00:18 Iran  154-152 km
00:19-00:20 East Oman  152 km
01:16-01:18 Mexico  148 km
01:18-01:20 Texas  148 km
01:20-01:21 Arkansas  149 km
01:21 SE Missouri  149 km
01:22 Illinois  150 km
01:22:30  NW Indiana  150 km
01:23  Michigan  151 km
01:24  Ontario, Canada  152 km
01:25-01:28  Quebec  152-154 km
01:36 Ireland  155 km
01:37 England  155 km
01:37:30-01:38:30 NE France  154 km
01:39 S. Germany/W. Austria  154 km
01:39:30 NE Italy  154 km
01:40-01:41 Slovenia/Croatia/Bosnia/Herzegovina  153 km
01:42 Greece
01:43 Off east-coast of Crete  152 km
01:45-01:46 NE Egypt  151 km
01:46-01:49 Red Sea  149 km
01:49-01:50 Yemen  149 km
01:50-01:53 Somalia  149 km
02:32 Tahiti  148 km
02:47-02:48 Southern California  144 km
02:48 Southernmost tip of Nevada  144 km
02:48-02:50 Utah  145 km
02:50-02:51 Wyoming  146 km
02:51:30 NW South Dakota  147 km
02:52 North Dakota  147 km
02:53 NW Minnesota  147 km
02:53-02:55 Ontario, Canada
02:56-02:58 Quebic  150 km
03:08-03:09 Spain  149 km
03:10-03:12 NE Algeria  148 km
03:12-03:14:30 Western Libya  147 km
03:15-03:18 Chad  146 km
03:18-03:20 Border of Sudan/Central African Republic  147 km
03:20-03:21 Democratic Republic of the Congo  147 km
03:22 Rwanda/Burundi  148 km
03:22-03:24:30 Tanzania  149 km
03:24:30-03:26 Somalia  151 km
03:28 Southern tip of Madagascar  154 km
04:00 Just south of Somoa  146 km

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[meteorite-list] UARS reentry update

2011-09-23 Thread Matson, Robert D.
UARS reentry looks to be shifting slightly later, so I've extended the
ground track predictions out to 06:00 UT. Here are the latest
times/locations:

September 24, 2011 (UT)

04:00 Just east of Somoa  146 km
04:18:30-04:20 Washington state  140 km
04:20-04:24:30 Western Canada  141-143 km
04:26-04:28 Quebec  143 km
04:40 Southern Morocco/N. Western Sahara  138 km
04:40:30-04:42 Mauritania  138 km
04:42-04:44 Mali  137 km
04:44-04:45 Burkino Faso  137 km
04:45-04:46 Benin  137 km
04:51-04:53 Angola  140 km
04:53-04:54 NE Namibia  141-142 km
04:54-04:55:30 Botswana  143 km
04:55:30-04:57:30 South Africa  143-145 km
05:19 NW corner of Tasmania  146 km
05:20 SE-most Australian coast  144 km
05:26 NW edge of New Caledonia  137 km
05:27 Vanuatu  136 km
05:49-05:54 British Columbia/Alberta/Saskatchewan/Manitoba  139-141 km
05:56-05:59 Quebec  140 km
06:00 Newfoundland  139 km

Note that for those in Southern California, UARS should be briefly
visible
low in the southwest (under Scorpius) rising around 7:44 pm PDT this
evening
and going into the earth's shadow only 2 minutes later about 6 degrees
to
the lower right of Antares.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] UARS SoCal observing clarification

2011-09-23 Thread Matson, Robert D.
Clarification:

 Note that for those in Southern California, UARS should be briefly
 visible low in the southwest (under Scorpius) rising around 7:44 pm
PDT
 this evening and going into the earth's shadow only 2 minutes later
 about 6 degrees to the lower right of Antares.

Because of the very low altitude of UARS at this time, there is
significant
parallax shift depending on your exact location. It will be 6 degrees to
the lower right of Antares from San Diego; however from Los Angeles, it
will go into shadow closer to the stinger of Scorpius, 20 degrees to
the lower left of Antares.

--Rob

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[meteorite-list] UARS

2011-09-23 Thread Bernd V. Pauli
Try and stop me. Falls in my yard, it's mine. :)

... falls on your head (direct hit) and you
won't be able to tell anyone it's yours :-)

OK. Just kidding, let's hope no one will get hit
and hurt by any chunks of that space debris!

Bernd


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Re: [meteorite-list] UARS

2011-09-23 Thread Michael Gilmer
Hi Bernd!

LOL!  As long as I survive the hit to the head, I'll have the world's
second confirmed space debris hammer.  Of course, I won't be able to
sell any of it because the Feds would swoop in and lock me up.  ;)

Best regards,

MikeG


On 9/23/11, Bernd V. Pauli bernd.pa...@paulinet.de wrote:
 Try and stop me. Falls in my yard, it's mine. :)

 ... falls on your head (direct hit) and you
 won't be able to tell anyone it's yours :-)

 OK. Just kidding, let's hope no one will get hit
 and hurt by any chunks of that space debris!

 Bernd


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-- 
-
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Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com
Facebook - http://tinyurl.com/42h79my
News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516
Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone
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Re: [meteorite-list] UARS

2011-09-23 Thread Chris Spratt
On the other hand the NASA really has no jurisdiction over the rest of  
this planet. For a fee they can have it back.


Chris Spratt
(Via my iPhone)
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[meteorite-list] Fwd: From Blaine Reed

2011-09-23 Thread Art
Forwarded from Blaine ...

-- Forwarded message --

Steve,

Regarding your ridiculous “High Noon” challenge – even though I was
not there YOU HAVE LOST!!

Does this look familiar   http://www.impactika.com/images/fake5000.jpg

Well IT SHOULD!!

I got this (along with 2 other samples) from the guy on 2000 Rd in
Delta you “hired” to cut it.

As I do very little on line (and even less on E-Bay), I really did not
know what rock all of the NWA 5000 supposed pairing fuss was about. I
happened to bump into this gem
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colorado-Lunar-Meteorite-/120781889556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1c1f296014
while looking for something else in the E-Bay listings today. I
immediately recognized it as something I already had a piece of!

I have already analyzed this stuff and found it to be wholly
terrestrial (as were the other two specimens you gave the rock shop).
I finally got to analyze a nice specimen of the real NWA 5000 in
Denver last week (which, in my opinion does not look much like your
stuff at all, aside from the breccia texture. But then what do I know,
I only have a bachelor’s in geology with minors in math, physics and
chemistry and a meteorite dealer for 25 years now but YOU have an
Audio Visual degree!).

Any way: HERE ARE THE RESULTS: I ran both of these in two different
modes for a better element coverage. Soils mode (the one that is best
for accurately picking up very low level stuff in rocks and dirt), is
not set up to see Si or Mg in my machine, so I use “Mining” mode to
see those often important elements (among others). This mode is not as
accurate in the numbers reported as soils, but it gives a pretty darn
good ball-park number (this really does not matter when comparing two
rocks run on the same machine. Any errors in calibration accuracy will
be the same in the other sample, so they ‘wash out” so to speak). I
have also converted the numbers all to ppm, since this is what you
seem to be so stuck on. I usually use % as that is a little easier for
the average person to understand (for those of you that are curious
1ppm = .0001% or 1gram in a metric ton (1000kg, 2200pounds).

“SOILS” MODE:

NWA (5000)
Ba (160), Ca (143,087), Cl (4775), Co (553), Cr (544), Cu (52), Fe
(37,941), I (570), K (1512), Mn (476), Rb (3), S (1429), Sr (178), Ti
(1619), Zn (23), Zr (87)

YOUR “Pairing”
Ba (580), Ca (11,464), Cl (10,064), Cu (59), Fe (6853), K (23,422), Mn
(99), Pb (19), Rb (64), S (964), Sr (714), Ti (1469), Zn (44), Zr
(169)

A quick look at this tells me that you have way too little Ca, Cr (you
had NONE of this critically important element in all meteorites in
this sample!), Fe, and Mn. You also have way to high Ba, K, and Sr --
all features common to many terrestrial (that is EARTH rocks, if you
don’t understand the lingo) materials.

“MINING” MODE: Note – LE is “light elements” This device cannot see
elements of atomic weight lighter than Mg. In rocks, this is usually O
(oxygen).

NWA (5000)
Al (154,940), Ca (131,430), Cd (200), Cr (850), Fe (45,800), LE
(334,220), Mg (43,300), Mn (890), Ni (50), Sb (320), Si (285,060), Sn
(220), Ti (2110), V (260), Zr (87)

YOUR “pairing”
Al (89,390), Ca (8270), Cd (194), Cr (190), Fe (13,570), LE (409,990),
Mn (290), P (600), Pb (13), S (500), Sb (300), Si (472, 980), Sn
(210), Ti (2780), V (500), Zr (218)

 A quick look at these numbers shows that your sample is to high in LE
(oxygen), Si and Zr. Your sample is to low in Al, Ca, Cr, and Fe.

The high Si linked with a high LE number tells me that you have a lot
of quartz in this rock and hints that it is indeed a rhyolite lava
breccia. These type lavas are VERY common to the San Juan Volcanic
field just south of you. Much of those mountains you see to your south
are the remnants of huge, explosive volcanoes. The high Si content
makes these lavas thick and sticky and the volcanoes they are
associated with particularly violent in their eruptions – hence the
breccia structure in your rock (though, admittedly, it could be from a
fault zone but it looks more typical Rhyolite breccia to me).

So Steve, you have lost!

I personally think that, since you demanded us all to quit and write
apology letters, you should be required to completely remove yourself
from the field of meteoritics, go back on the news channels, papers
and libraries and apologize to all of the poor young kids and adults
you misled in your media blitz peddling your fake rocks the last year
or so.

Another thing – REMOVE THIS FRAUDULANT LISTING FROM E-BAY NOW!

If you don’t, I will take my data to “team E-Bay” and show them that
this is a fraud (anybody else out there that has better E-Bay
connections – feel free to contact them for me if the listing does not
go away in the next day or two).

I tried to “play nice” with you. All I ever did was to offer to
analyze material for you, but you decided that you had some kind of
axe to grind with me. Well, play time is over and I mean business!

Blaine Reed

[meteorite-list] Fwd: From Blaine Reed

2011-09-23 Thread JoshuaTreeMuseum

Well alrighty then!  The science is settled.

Phil Whitmer
Joshua Tree Earth  Space Museum
--

Steve,

Regarding your ridiculous High Noon challenge - even though I was
not there YOU HAVE LOST!!

Does this look familiar   http://www.impactika.com/images/fake5000.jpg

Well IT SHOULD!!

I got this (along with 2 other samples) from the guy on 2000 Rd in
Delta you hired to cut it.

As I do very little on line (and even less on E-Bay), I really did not
know what rock all of the NWA 5000 supposed pairing fuss was about. I
happened to bump into this gem
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Colorado-Lunar-Meteorite-/120781889556?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0hash=item1c1f296014
while looking for something else in the E-Bay listings today. I
immediately recognized it as something I already had a piece of!

I have already analyzed this stuff and found it to be wholly
terrestrial (as were the other two specimens you gave the rock shop).
I finally got to analyze a nice specimen of the real NWA 5000 in
Denver last week (which, in my opinion does not look much like your
stuff at all, aside from the breccia texture. But then what do I know,
I only have a bachelor's in geology with minors in math, physics and
chemistry and a meteorite dealer for 25 years now but YOU have an
Audio Visual degree!).

Any way: HERE ARE THE RESULTS: I ran both of these in two different
modes for a better element coverage. Soils mode (the one that is best
for accurately picking up very low level stuff in rocks and dirt), is
not set up to see Si or Mg in my machine, so I use Mining mode to
see those often important elements (among others). This mode is not as
accurate in the numbers reported as soils, but it gives a pretty darn
good ball-park number (this really does not matter when comparing two
rocks run on the same machine. Any errors in calibration accuracy will
be the same in the other sample, so they 'wash out so to speak). I
have also converted the numbers all to ppm, since this is what you
seem to be so stuck on. I usually use % as that is a little easier for
the average person to understand (for those of you that are curious
1ppm = .0001% or 1gram in a metric ton (1000kg, 2200pounds).

SOILS MODE:

NWA (5000)
Ba (160), Ca (143,087), Cl (4775), Co (553), Cr (544), Cu (52), Fe
(37,941), I (570), K (1512), Mn (476), Rb (3), S (1429), Sr (178), Ti
(1619), Zn (23), Zr (87)

YOUR Pairing
Ba (580), Ca (11,464), Cl (10,064), Cu (59), Fe (6853), K (23,422), Mn
(99), Pb (19), Rb (64), S (964), Sr (714), Ti (1469), Zn (44), Zr
(169)

A quick look at this tells me that you have way too little Ca, Cr (you
had NONE of this critically important element in all meteorites in
this sample!), Fe, and Mn. You also have way to high Ba, K, and Sr -- 
all features common to many terrestrial (that is EARTH rocks, if you

don't understand the lingo) materials.

MINING MODE: Note - LE is light elements This device cannot see
elements of atomic weight lighter than Mg. In rocks, this is usually O
(oxygen).

NWA (5000)
Al (154,940), Ca (131,430), Cd (200), Cr (850), Fe (45,800), LE
(334,220), Mg (43,300), Mn (890), Ni (50), Sb (320), Si (285,060), Sn
(220), Ti (2110), V (260), Zr (87)

YOUR pairing
Al (89,390), Ca (8270), Cd (194), Cr (190), Fe (13,570), LE (409,990),
Mn (290), P (600), Pb (13), S (500), Sb (300), Si (472, 980), Sn
(210), Ti (2780), V (500), Zr (218)

A quick look at these numbers shows that your sample is to high in LE
(oxygen), Si and Zr. Your sample is to low in Al, Ca, Cr, and Fe.

The high Si linked with a high LE number tells me that you have a lot
of quartz in this rock and hints that it is indeed a rhyolite lava
breccia. These type lavas are VERY common to the San Juan Volcanic
field just south of you. Much of those mountains you see to your south
are the remnants of huge, explosive volcanoes. The high Si content
makes these lavas thick and sticky and the volcanoes they are
associated with particularly violent in their eruptions - hence the
breccia structure in your rock (though, admittedly, it could be from a
fault zone but it looks more typical Rhyolite breccia to me).

So Steve, you have lost!

I personally think that, since you demanded us all to quit and write
apology letters, you should be required to completely remove yourself
from the field of meteoritics, go back on the news channels, papers
and libraries and apologize to all of the poor young kids and adults
you misled in your media blitz peddling your fake rocks the last year
or so.

Another thing - REMOVE THIS FRAUDULANT LISTING FROM E-BAY NOW!

If you don't, I will take my data to team E-Bay and show them that
this is a fraud (anybody else out there that has better E-Bay
connections - feel free to contact them for me if the listing does not
go away in the next day or two).

I tried to play nice with you. All I ever did was to offer to
analyze material for you, but you decided that you had some kind of
axe to grind with me. Well, play time is over and I 

[meteorite-list] 2011 Denver Mineral Show

2011-09-23 Thread Benjamin P. Sun
now that it's over, any photos or details about it? anyone?
any photos of the COMET auction too?
Wish I could've gone..
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[meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

2011-09-23 Thread Rob Matson
Hi All,

Assuming UARS is still in orbit, it is passing just off the
east coast of Australia right now (22:22 PDT)... --Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

2011-09-23 Thread Greg Hupé

What is it doing, skipping like a rock on a pond?



Best Regards,
Greg


Greg Hupé
The Hupé Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
NaturesVault (eBay)
AncientDiscoveries (eBay)(formerly 'NaturesVault')
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions, I have two accounts now:
1) NaturesVault - http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
2) AncientDiscoveries (formerly 'NaturesVault') - 
http://shop.ebay.com/ancientdiscoveries/m.html?_dmd=1_ipg=50_sop=12_rdc=1



-Original Message- 
From: Rob Matson

Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 1:25 AM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

Hi All,

Assuming UARS is still in orbit, it is passing just off the
east coast of Australia right now (22:22 PDT)... --Rob

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Re: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

2011-09-23 Thread Rob Matson
It's almost certainly down by now... waiting for some confirmation.
Could not observe it from SoCal earlier this evening (overcast)...

--Rob

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:i...@meteorites.com.au]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:36 PM
To: 'Greg Hupé'; 'Rob Matson'; 'Meteorite List'
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws


Well it should have just skipped over-head and nothing to report from
down-under... that I know of!

Cheers,

Jeff

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Re: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

2011-09-23 Thread Jeff Kuyken
Well it should have just skipped over-head and nothing to report from
down-under... that I know of!

Cheers,

Jeff

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com
[mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Greg Hupé
Sent: Saturday, 24 September 2011 3:31 PM
To: Rob Matson; Meteorite List
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

What is it doing, skipping like a rock on a pond?



Best Regards,
Greg


Greg Hupé
The Hupé Collection
gmh...@centurylink.net
www.LunarRock.com
NaturesVault (eBay)
AncientDiscoveries (eBay)(formerly 'NaturesVault')
IMCA 3163

Click here for my current eBay auctions, I have two accounts now:
1) NaturesVault - http://search.ebay.com/_W0QQsassZnaturesvault
2) AncientDiscoveries (formerly 'NaturesVault') - 
http://shop.ebay.com/ancientdiscoveries/m.html?_dmd=1_ipg=50_sop=12_rdc=1


-Original Message- 
From: Rob Matson
Sent: Saturday, September 24, 2011 1:25 AM
To: Meteorite List
Subject: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

Hi All,

Assuming UARS is still in orbit, it is passing just off the
east coast of Australia right now (22:22 PDT)... --Rob

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[meteorite-list] Last visible UARS observation

2011-09-23 Thread Rob Matson
Last reliable observation I'm aware of was from Texas at ~1:18 UT
(8:18pm CDT) when it was more or less on time. But the windows of
sunlit visibility are extremely narrow, so it could easily have
survived for hours after the Texas observation.  --Rob

-Original Message-
From: Jeff Kuyken [mailto:i...@meteorites.com.au]
Sent: Friday, September 23, 2011 10:36 PM
To: 'Greg Hupé'; 'Rob Matson'; 'Meteorite List'
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] UARS final death-throws

Well it should have just skipped over-head and nothing to report from
down-under... that I know of!

Cheers,

Jeff

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[meteorite-list] UARS last seen over Minnesota 3 hours ago...

2011-09-23 Thread Rob Matson
Apparently also seen over Minnesota one orbit later at 9:55pm CDT
(02:55 UT), but no other visible reports since then... --Rob

-Original Message-
From: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com on behalf of Rob Matson
Sent: Fri 9/23/2011 10:46 PM
To: Jeff Kuyken; 'Greg Hupé'; 'Meteorite List'
Subject: [meteorite-list] Last visible UARS observation

Last reliable observation I'm aware of was from Texas at ~1:18 UT
(8:18pm CDT) when it was more or less on time. But the windows of
sunlit visibility are extremely narrow, so it could easily have
survived for hours after the Texas observation.  --Rob

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