Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
Met List, I appreciate honest debate. I appreciate respect. The personal attacks need to stop. I will never respond in kind. Do you all not know the Met List policies? General List Policies (i.e. The Rules) 1. Posts need to relate in some way to meteorites. 2. Be courteous and professional at all times. 3. No Personal Attacks. ... I have not attacked the scientific community in anyway. I'm a part of it. I'm just exposing that unethical behavior can happen behind the scenes at times. I'm talking about a few individuals only. The greater amount of scientists and technicians I worked with were very professional and are wonderful people to work with. First I would like to respond to Elton who emailed me off-list. Elton you are incorrect. It is possible to have a mass impact eject/launch off of Mars to a diameter of approx. 22.0m, perhaps melted, but with oblique impacts they can launch off the surface solid. The TKW of my discovery is greater than the mass of Moon rocks we brought back during the all the Apollo missions, which is approx. 382.0kg of mass. My discovery isn't a single mass but many fragments from a heterogeneous igneous rock mass that was impact ejected/launched off the surface of Mars, or just below the surface of Mars. The largest masses of the fragments are larger than Zugami. It is mostly extrusive igneous rock from Mars. See pg.337 Impact and Explosion Crater Ejecta, Fragment Size, and Velocity http://web.gps.caltech.edu/~sue/TJA_LindhurstLabWebsite/ListPublications/Papers_pdf/Seismo_1314.pdf You all need to educate yourself regarding a very dark historical event within our Meteorite community here in the USA, The Old Woman Meteorite. It is very true that even one of the most esteemed institutions of science in our nation The Smithsonian Institute can get it really really wrong. The Golden Rule is to treat others as you would like to be treated. Geologist Joe De Kehoe gets the whole story very right. I would recommend buying his book, The Silence of the Sun. Unfair and unjust laws are simply no law at all. It's lawlessness. There is a higher law of fairness and justice. You can not ignore the original discoverer. This World Record Mars Discovery will benefit the People. It's the People's National treasure. The People are to benefit. I've said that all along and will continue to do so. I'm doing the right thing. I know a greater law ... Psalm 24:1 NLT "A psalm of David. The earth is the LORD's, and everything in it. The world and all its people belong to him." Geologist Joe De Kehoe writes the entire story:... Chapter One, The Old Woman Meteorite, The story and the controversy that resulted from the discovery and removal of the second largest meteorite ever found in the U.S. http://gfoundit-mars.com/owm3word.docx Glyn Howard From: Count Deiro Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:59 AM To: Gmail; Ann Cain; Met-List Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery Mendy and All, I have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. My nose is twitching and I smell an unpleasant odor. Like I'm standing near an outhouse in Colorado. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc Message- >From: Gmail via Meteorite-list >Sent: Jan 15, 2016 5:26 AM >To: Ann Cain , Met-List > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery > >There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided >legitimacy to your story and your rocks. > >You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and >meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your >rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial >interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of >scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black >Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed >because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large. > >If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices >for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get >past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would >only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by >any number of factors such as but not limited to supply. > >Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good >for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is >worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only >hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara (derogatory >speech) and move on. > >Respectfully, > >Mendy Ouzillou > >On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list > wrote: > > >Meteorite List, > > >Recall: >Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
Hi Ian and List, Yes, we can all play keyboard king and tell the governments and the world how we think things should be done. There will never be an ideal world and compromises must be made to keep everyone relatively happy (or at least content or apathetic). I agree that nobody's system is perfect, regardless of national boundaries. Comparing meteorites to collecting baseball cards is disingenuous. Rock and mineral collecting is one of the oldest expressions of geology. Amateur participation in that field has a long established history that has benefited museums and science over the years. For some people, meteorites are another rock to collect. For some they are research material. For some they are national treasures. Ultimately, who "owns" a meteorite? Do we really want some bureaucrat deciding that? Isn't this a case where common sense (ha!) should apply? Or, call the lawyers and give them a pile of money to figure it out. I do not see the kind of rampant fraud and chicanery that Ian is talking about. Sure, any marketplace has crooks (some vendors, some buyers) and one has to only look at other collectible markets like autographs or Tiffany glass to see that fraud is "rampant" there was well. It all comes down to trust. If you don't trust the vendor's honesty and expertise, then avoid their sales pitches. "> I constantly see deception, fraud, ridiculous pricing, items stolen out of > countries, governments and scientists disrespected, incorrectly described > items, dubious provenance, destroyed samples, tiny fragments, endless > provenance hand balling etc etc" Where are you looking exactly? eBay? Craigslist? Boot sales? You can also buy a million types of snake oil at those same venues. It doesn't mean it's a problem that is endemic in any given field that sells or buys at that venue. Most known members of this mailing list are trustworthy. We all know who is and who isn't. And the people who are crooks get run out of town pretty quick. There are a few of us who might be eccentrics, anti-socials, egotists, blowhards, or some other species of the common jerk, but you know who to trust when it comes to authenticity. The field sorts itself out and the informed buyer chooses from well-established and reputable sources. Nobody likes thieves or scammers and the only issue I have with the list of negative attributes on your list is "tiny fragments". As someone who has owned, traded, and sold his share of tiny fragments, that is not a negative thing that should be lumped in with thievery. As I am sure you are aware, most scientific analysis doesn't require large volumes of material, especially redundant materials for diminishing/no scientific gain. Even a 3mg Bessey Speck is big enough for the microprobe and then some. It's scientific value might be extremely limited if that speck represents yet another unremarkable H5 W4 from the NWA DCA. What about the samples from scientifically-interesting material like NWA 7038? How much science could be done with a "tiny fragment" of that? Speaking of remarkable meteorites with scientific value, the recent Martian NWA 7038 was found by someone who never saw the inside of a classroom, traded to another person with no degrees, and sold to another guy with no letters after his name. Middle level dealers bought and sold some pieces after it trickled down into the market, and now people are paying $20-$50 for a crumb weighing less than 20mg. If we had waited on a juried collection of bureaucrat-approved dandies to make that recovery, "Black Beauty" would be buried in the desert until all of it's value to science was eroded to nothing. Now, not much of that particular meteorite (or it's pairings) is on the collector market waiting to be bought like a baseball card. But, a "tiny fragment" can cost a day's work for some people, and does that make it less valuable or less ethical? Should only well-heeled (or connected) people of letters be allowed to collect meteorites? Should I buy a tiny fragment of something for my collection (or research), or should we budget-limited souls take our unwashed minds back to the fleamarket and rummage for Beanie Babies and old postcards? If somebody is breaking the law to hunt (or buy,trade,sell,collect) meteorites, then there are obviously laws already in place against fraud and theft that need to be enforced. If somebody in the IMCA is crooked, call them out and report them to the board. If somebody on this List is crooked, call them out and let them answer for their shady dealings. But, let's not act like some government or board of academics should be the judge and jury of who gets to keep a meteorite found on private property, or to decide who the owner of said meteorite should be able to give/sell/trade it to for everyone's mutual satisfaction. I didn't mean to offend the hard working and ethical hunters in Australia who abide by the rules and make recoveries that are available to science. When I called out Australia
[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day
Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: Windimurra Contributed by: Graham Macleod http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=01/16/2016 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give away the scientific analysis and identification process to another? Why not learn how to do it for yourself so that your knowledge of the science of meteoritics increases? Why give away that joy of this discovery process? Sure I understand that many can't do it or perhaps they aren't interested in the whole scientific process, but I am. +++ Interesting questions if you are so inclined to do the mineralogy/classification and have or can develop the skills and resources to do it which are capable of withstanding peer review. The angle I have to answer your questions...you are welcomed to claim anything you want if it is your rock, or for that matter someone else's rock. The reason an independent party is brought in is to prevent a conflict of interests in "layperson's terms". If it is a learning process for you, congratulations on your enthusiasm to learn more on the subject using your unknown specimen as a self-teaching aid and more. Like learning to dance with what may turn out to be a broom instead of an authentic partner ;) I have a concern with your self-promotion of your rock before it has met any formal scientific peer review, or at least publication in an accredited scientific journal with a responsible policy of editorial review covering whatever appears in their publications and bulletins. Until this happens, your conclusions or interpretations are not validated and subject to a wide variety if biases, including but not limited to self-serving bias, confirmation bias, and optimism bias. I wish you the greatest luck with your specimen and your studies, and like all other criticism you are likely to receive, that is a healthy part of the scientific process to be appreciated, which eventually will invalidate or support your budding studies. Meteorite and meteor-wrong classification is based on the ability of a sample to be distributed to independent researchers with a stellar reputation in the meteoritical community for this reason. Best of luck! -Original Message- From: Ann Cain via Meteorite-list To: meteorite-list Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 2:59 am Subject: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery Meteorite List, Recall: Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use the same email account: Ann Cain, Glyn Howard gfndit(at)hotmail.com This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of the Meteorite List. I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable (empirical). I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this discovery: GSA and GSB http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite specimens by this Passover. I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how. The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia have played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a righ
[meteorite-list] Mars Rover Opportunity Update: January 4-12, 2016
http://mars.nasa.gov/mer/mission/status.html#opportunity OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Rover Uses Rock Abrasion Tool to Grind Rocks - sols 4247-4255, January 04, 2016-January 12, 2016: Opportunity is inside 'Marathon Valley' on north-facing slopes for improved solar array energy production. The rover is engaged in an in-situ (contact) science campaign investigating the surface target 'Pvt. John Potts' (informally named for members of the Lewis and Clark expedition). Opportunity is performing successive grinds into the target to prepare a clean surface for elemental analysis by the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS). An initial grid by the Rock Abrasion Tool (RAT) had been previously completed, so a survey of the grind was performed on Sol 4248 (Jan. 5, 2016), with the Microscopic Imager (MI) with an initial analysis with the APXS. Color Pancam panoramas of various targets were collected on Sols 4249 and 4250 (Jan. 6 and 7, 2016). On Sol 4253 (Jan. 10, 2016), a seek scan with the RAT bit was performed in setup to another RAT grind on a subsequent sol. On Sol 4255 (Jan. 12, 2016), two steps of a deeper grind were performed on the target. The RAT was left in place so even deeper grinding could be performed later. As of Sol 4255 (Jan. 12, 2016), the solar array energy production was 452 watt-hours with an atmospheric opacity (Tau) of 0.446 and an improved solar array dust factor of 0.666. Total odometry is 26.50 miles (42.65 kilometers), more than a marathon. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Rover Opportunity Update: December 16, 2015 - January 3, 2016
OPPORTUNITY UPDATE: Opportunity Welcomes Winter Solstice - sols 4229-4246, December 16, 2015-January 03, 2016 Opportunity is inside 'Marathon Valley' on the west rim of Endeavour Crater. The rover is positioned on steep, north-facing slopes for improved solar array energy production. The winter solstice occurred on Sol 4246 (Jan. 3, 2016), although solar insolation already started to improve. The near-term objective is to position the rover to be able to grind a high-value surface target with the Rock Abrasion Tool (RAT). This target may hold some of the clues as to the origin of the clay spectral signature detected in Marathon Valley. On Sol 4229 (Dec. 16, 2015), Opportunity bumped about 14 inches (35 centimeters) to set up for an extended in-situ (contact) science campaign through the holiday season. Over the holiday period, Opportunity proceeded to use the robotic arm to collect Microscopic Imager (MI) mosaics of the surface targets as well as place the Alpha Particle X-ray Spectrometer (APXS) for surface elemental analysis. Winter power levels and late Odyssey passes made planning difficult with some sols being used as recharge days. On Sol 4234 (Dec. 22, 2015), Opportunity was able to use the RAT to brush the surface target 'Pvt. John Potts.' This was followed with more MI mosaics and APXS measurements. On Sol 4244 (Jan. 1, 2016), the RAT was used again, this time to grind (1 millimeter) into the surface target. More MI mosaics and APXS elemental analysis of the ground target followed. As of Sol 4246 (Jan. 3, 2016), the solar array energy production was 449 watt-hours with an atmospheric opacity (Tau) of 0.414 and an improved solar array dust factor of 0.658. Total odometry is 26.50 miles (42.65 kilometers), more than a marathon. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Mars Odyssey THEMIS Images: January 11-15, 2016
MARS ODYSSEY THEMIS IMAGES January 11-15, 2016 o Rim Complexities (11 January 2016) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20160111a o Hebrus Valles (12 January 2016) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20160112a o Labeatis Fossae (13 January 2016) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20160113a o Elysium Fossae (14 January 2016) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20160114a o Hyperboreae Undae (15 January 2016) http://themis.asu.edu/zoom-20160115a All of the THEMIS images are archive here: http://themis.asu.edu/latest.html NASA's Jet Propulsion Laboratory manages the 2001 Mars Odyssey mission for NASA's Office of Space Science, Washington, D.C. The Thermal Emission Imaging System (THEMIS) was developed by Arizona State University, Tempe, in co.oration with Raytheon Santa Barbara Remote Sensing. The THEMIS investigation is led by Dr. Philip Christensen at Arizona State University. Lockheed Martin Astronautics, Denver, is the prime contractor for the Odyssey project, and developed and built the orbiter. Mission operations are conducted jointly from Lockheed Martin and from JPL, a division of the California Institute of Technology in Pasadena. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] NASA's Stardust Sample Return was 10 Years Ago Today
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4821 NASA's Stardust Sample Return was 10 Years Ago Today Jet Propulsion Laboratory January 15, 2016 It was less than an hour into the new day of January 15, 2006 (EST), when tens of thousands of miles above our planet, two cable cutters and two retention bolts fired, releasing a spring which pushed a 101-pound (46-kilogram) sample return capsule away from its mother ship. Later, during its final plunge Earthward, the capsule would become the fastest human-made object to enter our atmosphere, achieving a velocity of about 28,600 mph (12.8 kilometers per second). Then, at 5:10 a.m. EST (3:10 a.m. MST), for the first time in seven years, the sample return capsule finally stopped moving. By the time it landed, under parachute in the desert salt flats of the U.S. Air Force's Utah Test and Training Range in Dugway, the capsule had travelled 2.88 billion miles (4.5 billion kilometers) -- a journey that carried it around the sun three times and as far out as halfway to Jupiter. Inside the Stardust mission's graphite-epoxy covered capsule was the objective of its prime mission -- humanity's first samples collected from a celestial body in deep space (beyond the Earth-moon system). "The Stardust sample return capsule carried inside cometary material it gathered from comet Wild-2 during a flyby in January of 2004," said Don Brownlee, Stardust principal investigator from the University of Washington, Seattle. "The spacecraft deployed a tennis racket-like, aerogel-lined collector, and we flew the spacecraft within 150 miles (241 kilometers), capturing particles from the coma as we went." Two days after the return, the sample return capsule's science canister and its cargo of comet and interstellar dust particles was stowed inside a special aluminum carrying case and transported to a curatorial facility at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston. Eileen Stansbery -- now Chief Scientist at Johnson -- worked on Stardust as the deputy director of Astromaterials Research and Exploration Science at the time. "We were investigating big questions with the smallest samples -- how did our solar system form? What are we made of? This comet is representative of one of the most primitive bodies in the solar system, preserving the earliest record of material from the nebula during the 'planetesimal' forming stage in its evolution." Brownlee notes, "The science team couldn't wait to get their hands on the samples. It had been 10 years of planning and then seven more years for the actual mission, so everyone was raring to go." The Stardust mission's international team of scientists -- 200 strong -- helped re-write the book on comets and the evolution of the solar system. The Stardust mission samples indicated that some comets may have included materials ejected from the early sun and may have formed very differently than scientists had theorized. "What we found was remarkable," said Brownlee. "Instead of rocky materials that formed around previous generations of stars, we found that most of the comet's rocky matter formed inside our solar system at extremely high temperature. In great contrast to its ice, our comet's rocky material had formed under white-hot conditions." Comet ice formed in cold regions beyond the planet Neptune, but the rocks, probably the bulk of any comet's mass, formed much closer to the sun in regions hot enough to evaporate bricks. The materials that Stardust collected from comet Wild-2 contain pre-solar "stardust" grains, identified on the basis of their unusual isotopic composition, but these grains are very rare. "Even though we confirmed comets are ancient bodies with an abundance of ice -- some which formed a few tens of degrees above absolute zero at the edge of the solar system -- we now know that comets are really a mix of materials made by conditions of both 'fire and ice,'" said Brownlee. While Stardust was the first deep-space sample-return mission, it was by no means the last. The Japanese Space Agency (JAXA's) Hayabusa mission collected samples from an asteroid and returned them to Earth in 2010, and the Hayabusa 2 mission to return material from asteroid Ryugu is currently underway. Still to come is NASA's OSIRIS-Rex mission. Scheduled to launch in September of this year, OSIRIS-REx will travel to the near-Earth asteroid Bennu and retrieve at least 2.1 ounces (60 grams) of surface material and return it to Earth for study. "The ways to explore space are probably as big as space itself," said Brownlee. "But for my money, you can't beat sample return. Having samples there in front of you, available for laboratory analysis when you want -- that's tough to beat." Another thing about Stardust that was tough to beat was the spacecraft itself. Launched on Feb. 7, 1999, Stardust flew past an asteroid known as Annefrank, flew past and collected particle samples from comet Wild-2, and ret
[meteorite-list] The Tale of the Huron Meteorite Collector
THE TALE OF THE HURON METEORITE COLLECTOR To understand this story, you have to know the Huron (Wendat, Wyandot) word for bollides and meteorites, which are White Panther and "ya' gg'^cra'" respectively. "Allen Johnson gave the following explanation as to the nature of the White Panther being: these beings, for there are several of them, are supposed to have originated in the northern polar regions and to travel in the air from north to south. From time to time, they alight here and there, making a kind of light when they come down. They are said to drop a round magical stone {ya' gg'^cra') when they want to break the solid ice and get into the water. Whenever this magical stone hits the earth, a thundering clash may be heard. In former days some men whose ears were keen and experienced could detect the presence of these panthers. XLII. The Ground-Squirrel and the Flying Panther. (Related in English by Allen Johnson, in May, 1912, at Wyandotte, Oklahoma. Johnson stated that he had heard this myth often recited by late James Armstrong,"Hariwa'kyg^de' —, Smith Nichols, and his mother. A briefer version of the same myth has been recorded in text, Mrs. Catherine Johnson acting as informant. Allen Johnson's version was recorded before that of Mrs. Johnson. That the monster [uki] was the Ground-squirrel was not remembered by Allen Johnson, but is inferred here from the explicit statement in Mrs. Catherine Johnson's telling of the same tale.) "On their way home twelve men traveled many days in the woods. They were tired. As they had to rest and gather provisions for the rest of the journey, their leader selected a place where they might pitch camp. When they returned from their hunt that night, each of them related his experiences as to what he had seen and killed while in the woods. One of the hunters, however, remained silent and would not say anything. The leader requested him to speak out and relate his adventures, as he was the only one left who had not spoken. So he replied that he had really found something, a tree that had been claw-marked, and wherein, no doubt, an animal was dwelling. But, to his mind, the animal was not a bear. When pressed by the chief to explain his thoughts, he added that, in all likelihood, it was an uki (Uki': it-is with "power"; that is: a being gifted with 'mana' or 'power.'), and that they had much better go away without disturbing it. {This tale likely goes back to the Pleistocene, when short faced bears and giant beaver lived. The uns and bullets are likely much later substitutions for iron spear points.] The leader held a kind of council at which it was decided to investigate the matter. The fellow advising them not to tease the animal having thus been overruled by the majority, showed the others to the spot. The tree in which the giant squirrel being had his abode was hollow from top to bottom. A neighbouring tree was felled against it, and used as a ladder to climb upon. As was the custom, the fellow who had first made the find was appointed to climb the leaning tree and look down into the hollow one. So he did, and having dropped something into the hole in order to drive the animal out, he gave the alarm, exclaiming, "Run for your lives! It isn't a bear; its eyes are fiery!" All the men began to run homewards. Coming out of his den, the monster chased them. The other man did not move from the tree on which he had climbed; and he heard the gun reports of each of his friends when they were just about to be killed by the giant squirrel. He knew that they were all dead when the last gun report came to his ears. He felt that he had better run away in the opposite direction. After having run for some time, he came to a steep cliff by a pool. There he saw a man standing upon the ledge of the rock, who told him not to be afraid. "I came here to help you," said he, "and I will fight the monster." He also gave him instructions regarding the animal that was on his trail, adding, "When you see that my body is covered with blood and that I am losing ground in the fight, dip some water [from the pool], pour it on me, and I shall thus be enabled to win the battle." For this purpose he gave him a bark cup. As the battle was about to begin, the protector of the man who had run away transformed himself into an animal. The man grew so intensely excited over the fight between his protector and the ground squirrel that although he saw the friendly animal dragged around by the other and almost overcome, he forgot for a while all about the instructions he had received. Suddenly they came back to his mind; and no sooner had he poured some water on his friend, than he saw him refreshed and regaining strength. When the battle was won, the man thanked his protector, who told him what he really was. "I am the White Panther, flying in the air like a blaze." And he added, "Now go home and bring the best and swiftest runn
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
Hi List, we can bang on about laws all day (which actually vary here in Australia between states) and also point fingers at scientists and museum staff we don't know. At the end of the day the law is the law...Deal with it There is no elitism going on, these guys are nice enough they just have to make a point and warning in respect to laws. Bob is right the Canadian model is a better system. The USA has too much freedom that is abused, Australia the opposite occurs The idea meteorites are not found or reported in Australia is far from accurate. See the USA enjoys a 'few' remaining labs that processing many kilograms of potentially stolen property out of NWA, this has given the appearance of very active work, and that something new is happening..respectfully I beg to differ We now have 50,000 meteorites and only 6 or so that we have orbit data for. The orbit ones were all found by camera networks NOT guys all over Africa So when it comes to collecting the next find like baseball cards or wanting to see meteoritics evolve.I chose evolution I constantly see deception, fraud, ridiculous pricing, items stolen out of countries, governments and scientists disrespected, incorrectly described items, dubious provenance, destroyed samples, tiny fragments, endless provenance hand balling etc etc and this is coming from many IMCA and non IMCA sellers and hunters So sorry lads Im sticking with the scientists on this one and the with few people in the private collecting meteorite community I trust Ian __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million
It would be interesting if they made a Colt Peacemaker .45 pistol from a meteorite. This is the gun that help keep peace in the West starting in 1873. http://guns.wikia.com/wiki/Colt_Peacemaker I went to a cash land auction held by Pershing County here in Nevada and was concerned about security since I saw no guards or policemen on duty and the back door was left wide open at the community center where the auction was being held. The room was filled with cowboy and rancher type investors with suitcases full of cash and yet nobody seemed concerned. I inquired and the auctioneer stated, "If somebody was ever stupid enough to try and rob one of my auctions, he would have fifty bullets in his head before hitting the ground since most of my auction patrons are heavily armed." I looked around and could see cowgirls with Ladysmith 9 mms and derringers stuffed into their boots and purses and men checking in on their Colt 45s laying in the same suitcases along with their cash. Needless to say, I witnessed peace through strength at this auction right here in the Wild West. - Original Message - From: "Anne Black via Meteorite-list" To: ; ; Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 11:02 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million Hello Peter, Since you asked I am sorry if I upset your friend or yourself, but destroying a meteorite just so you can redo it was simply idiotic. Why break something just so you can glue it back together? and losing in the process the Widmanstatten pattern, the very identity of the meteorite that simply cannot be re-created. As for this latest idea... Using a meteorite that came down in peace, that helped early men learn the value of iron, and then turn it into a gun, this might be the ultimate insult. See you soon in Tucson. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Peter Davidson via Meteorite-list To: 'Tommy' ; Meteorite List (meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com) Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 8:40 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million Dear Tommy and All I will be interested to see the reaction of listees to this article. A few years ago I posted a small "flyer" for the work of an artist who had taken a piece of Campo, made a mould of it, melted the meteorite then cast it in the mould she had made earlier and put it on display in an exhibition of her work. This piece of news generated a great deal of, mainly negative, comment on the list. Can someone point out to me how this use of a meteorite, to make a weapon, is different (for better or worse) to the artwork my friend created? Cheers Peter Davidson Senior Curator of Mineralogy Natural Sciences Department National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA TEL: 0131 247 4283 E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Tommy via Meteorite-list Sent: 15 January 2016 13:16 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million http://bit.ly/1SRLDK1 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Join us for BUILD IT! Adventures with LEGO(R) Bricks. A free display and family activities from 29 January�17 April 2016. www.nms.ac.uk/buildit (http://www.nms.ac.uk/buildit) National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.
Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million
There is *nothing* wrong with crafting the handle of a sidearm using a meteorite. There is *nothing* wrong with pistols or rifles. Period. It's no different than using meteorites to make the face of a watch. No difference. From: Meteorite-list on behalf of Peter Davidson via Meteorite-list Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 8:40 AM To: 'Tommy'; Meteorite List (meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com) Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million Dear Tommy and All I will be interested to see the reaction of listees to this article. A few years ago I posted a small "flyer" for the work of an artist who had taken a piece of Campo, made a mould of it, melted the meteorite then cast it in the mould she had made earlier and put it on display in an exhibition of her work. This piece of news generated a great deal of, mainly negative, comment on the list. Can someone point out to me how this use of a meteorite, to make a weapon, is different (for better or worse) to the artwork my friend created? Cheers Peter Davidson Senior Curator of Mineralogy Natural Sciences Department National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA TEL: 0131 247 4283 E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Tommy via Meteorite-list Sent: 15 January 2016 13:16 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million http://bit.ly/1SRLDK1 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Join us for BUILD IT! Adventures with LEGO(R) Bricks. A free display and family activities from 29 January?17 April 2016. www.nms.ac.uk/buildit (http://www.nms.ac.uk/buildit) National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
I think there should be no regulations whatsoever on meteorite recoveries from public land. The old system of 20% or 20 grams has worked fine for decades and it is not a law. Australia used to be the number one producer of meteorites during the 80's. Now look where they are. The U.S. government was required by our forefathers to issue land patents to mining claims for over a century. They no longer honor this use of public land and have not issued patents since the 1990s. Now meteorite recoveries are being regulated too. They are even placing restrictions on private land owners when it comes to recovering gold and other minerals. It will not be long that meteorites "fall" into this bureaucratic trap.I am only allowed to use 1,800 gallons of water a day to process gold or else to go to the dry wash system that prospectors hate and are only allowed to use on public claims in the area. As a private land owner, I am not even allowed to use pond water to process gold without a class B permit and file water use reports even though this water would simply evaporate. I will be forced to use a recirculation type system limiting gold production to less than 20 ounces a day unless I am fortunate enough to find some big nuggets with a Minelab metal detector like some old timers are using these days. The only thing that makes it worth while is that my property is located in the middle of the hottest placer nugget producing area in the state, just meters away from the famous Poker Brown gold mine. Placer nuggets weighing several pounds have been found nearby and were only discovered since the 1980s. These large nuggets are rarely reported since it could result in more restrictions. A straw buyer for the Chinese wants to survey my property. They claimed my property is not fenced therefore they can take samples due to open range laws. I told them to stay the hell off my property. I have some old-timers keeping any eye out to make sure somebody doesn't mistake my property for public land which is all claimed up in the area. I may have to install an electric fence since the government is doing nothing to protect private landowners rights. They are too busy wasting time regulating public lands. Good luck hunting while you still can, - Original Message - From: "Robert Verish via Meteorite-list" To: "Galactic Stone & Ironworks" Cc: "Meteorite List" Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 9:36 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over Hey Galactic Stone, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel? ;-) Did this line in that article hit you too close to home: "Professor Bland said he suspects there are amateur astronomers who are frustrated by legislation requiring them to hand back their discoveries from outer space." I find the phrase "hand back" interesting. If you accept that this meteorite was "stolen from the Queen", then the only legal recourse for Professor Bland is for him to take that meteorite back out to the Queen's Outback and shove it back into that muddy hole from which it was purloined. If you want it so bad, you know where it is? I think this would be a great opportunity for a group discussion comparing the Queen's "policies" relating to how meteorite finds are handled in Australia vs. Canada vs. England vs. U.S. public lands. Personally, I vote that the U.S. adopt the "policy" version that the Canadian's enforce. It's proven that it works! Galactic Stone is right. It's time to refute the insane rhetoric that a recently fallen meteorite is an "artifact". Insanity! On Fri, 1/15/16, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list wrote: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over To: "Tommy" Cc: "Meteorite List" Date: Friday, January 15, 2016, 7:50 AM More hogwash. The inbox is full of it this morning. "Scientific value" - "sitting on the mantlepiece" - "black market" This kind of piece belongs in the National Enquirer. Dr. Grguric should get together and drink kool-aid with Lindfors and the new World Record Martian Loon. They all have the same level of intelligence apparently. On 1/15/16, Tommy via Meteorite-list wrote: > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-'crown-property'/7091562 > > Regards! > > Tom > __ __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archive
[meteorite-list] New Details on Ceres Seen in Dawn Images
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/news/news.php?feature=4817 New Details on Ceres Seen in Dawn Images Jet Propulsion Laboratory January 12, 2016 Features on dwarf planet Ceres that piqued the interest of scientists throughout 2015 stand out in exquisite detail in the latest images from NASA's Dawn spacecraft, which recently reached its lowest-ever altitude at Ceres. Dawn took these images near its current altitude of 240 miles (385 kilometers) from Ceres, between Dec. 19 and 23, 2015. Kupalo Crater, one of the youngest craters on Ceres, shows off many fascinating attributes at the high image resolution of 120 feet (35 meters) per pixel. The crater has bright material exposed on its rim, which could be salts, and its flat floor likely formed from impact melt and debris. Researchers will be looking closely at whether this material is related to the "bright spots" of Occator Crater. Kupalo, which measures 16 miles (26 kilometers) across and is located at southern mid-latitudes, is named for the Slavic god of vegetation and harvest. "This crater and its recently-formed deposits will be a prime target of study for the team as Dawn continues to explore Ceres in its final mapping phase," said Paul Schenk, a Dawn science team member at the Lunar and Planetary Institute, Houston. Dawn's low vantage point also captured the dense network of fractures on the floor of 78-mile-wide (126-kilometer-wide) Dantu Crater. One of the youngest large craters on Earth's moon, called Tycho, has similar fractures. This cracking may have resulted from the cooling of impact melt, or when the crater floor was uplifted after the crater formed. A 20-mile (32-kilometer) crater west of Dantu is covered in steep slopes, called scarps, and ridges. These features likely formed when the crater partly collapsed during the formation process. The curvilinear nature of the scarps resembles those on the floor of Rheasilvia, the giant impact crater on protoplanet Vesta, which Dawn orbited from 2011 to 2012. Dawn's other instruments also began studying Ceres intensively in mid-December. The visible and infrared mapping spectrometer is examining how various wavelengths of light are reflected by Ceres, which will help identify minerals present on its surface. Dawn's gamma ray and neutron detector (GRaND) is also keeping scientists busy. Data from GRaND help researchers understand the abundances of elements in Ceres' surface, along with details of the dwarf planet's composition that hold important clues about how it evolved. The spacecraft will remain at its current altitude for the rest of its mission, and indefinitely afterward. The end of the prime mission will be June 30, 2016. "When we set sail for Ceres upon completing our Vesta exploration, we expected to be surprised by what we found on our next stop. Ceres did not disappoint," said Chris Russell, principal investigator for the Dawn mission, based at the University of California, Los Angeles. "Everywhere we look in these new low- altitude observations, we see amazing landforms that speak to the unique character of this most amazing world." Dawn is the first mission to visit a dwarf planet, and the first mission outside the Earth-moon system to orbit two distinct solar system targets. After orbiting Vesta for 14 months in 2011 and 2012, it arrived at Ceres on March 6, 2015. Dawn's mission is managed by the Jet Propulsion Laboratory for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. Dawn is a project of the directorate's Discovery Program, managed by NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville, Alabama. UCLA is responsible for overall Dawn mission science. Orbital ATK Inc., in Dulles, Virginia, designed and built the spacecraft. The German Aerospace Center, Max Planck Institute for Solar System Research, Italian Space Agency and Italian National Astrophysical Institute are international partners on the mission team. For a complete list of mission participants, visit: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov/mission More information about Dawn is available at the following sites: http://dawn.jpl.nasa.gov http://www.nasa.gov/dawn Media Contact Elizabeth Landau Jet Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, Calif. 818-354-6425 elizabeth.lan...@jpl.nasa.gov 2016-008 __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million
Hi List, I have to agree with Anne on this one. It's sad to see a beautiful regmaglypted Gibeon sliced down, smelted, and turned into a tool. I'd feel the same way if the tool was a wrench or a gun. Besides, meteoritic iron is not homogeneous and may fracture under pressure. It is a poor choice for making gun parts. This is a gimmick and nothing more. I own guns, I am knowledgeable about guns, and I would touch this gun with a ten-foot pole, even if I had a million dollars. It's a bomb waiting to explode in the shooter's hand. Best regards, MikeG On 1/15/16, Anne Black via Meteorite-list wrote: > Hello Peter, > > Since you asked > > I am sorry if I upset your friend or yourself, but destroying a meteorite > just so you can redo it was simply idiotic. Why break something just so you > can glue it back together? and losing in the process the Widmanstatten > pattern, the very identity of the meteorite that simply cannot be > re-created. > As for this latest idea... Using a meteorite that came down in peace, > that helped early men learn the value of iron, and then turn it into a gun, > this might be the ultimate insult. > > See you soon in Tucson. > > Anne M. Black > www.IMPACTIKA.com > impact...@aol.com > > > -Original Message- > From: Peter Davidson via Meteorite-list > > To: 'Tommy' ; Meteorite List > (meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com) > Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 8:40 am > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million > > Dear Tommy and All > > I will be interested to see the reaction of listees to this article. A few > years ago I posted a small "flyer" for the work of an artist who had taken a > piece of Campo, made a mould of it, melted the meteorite then cast it in the > mould she had made earlier and put it on display in an exhibition of her > work. This piece of news generated a great deal of, mainly negative, comment > on the list. Can someone point out to me how this use of a meteorite, to > make a weapon, is different (for better or worse) to the artwork my friend > created? > > Cheers > > Peter Davidson > Senior Curator of Mineralogy > > Natural Sciences Department > National Museums Collection Centre > 242 West Granton Road > Edinburgh > EH5 1JA > TEL: 0131 247 4283 > E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk > > -Original Message- > From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On > Behalf Of Tommy via Meteorite-list > Sent: 15 January 2016 13:16 > To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million > > > http://bit.ly/1SRLDK1 > > Regards! > > Tom > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > Join us for BUILD IT! Adventures with LEGO(R) Bricks. A free display and > family activities from 29 January�17 April 2016. www.nms.ac.uk/buildit > (http://www.nms.ac.uk/buildit) > > National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 > This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the > addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. > The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the > author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. > This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of > Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that > may be caused to your systems or data by this message. > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million
Hello Peter, Since you asked I am sorry if I upset your friend or yourself, but destroying a meteorite just so you can redo it was simply idiotic. Why break something just so you can glue it back together? and losing in the process the Widmanstatten pattern, the very identity of the meteorite that simply cannot be re-created. As for this latest idea... Using a meteorite that came down in peace, that helped early men learn the value of iron, and then turn it into a gun, this might be the ultimate insult. See you soon in Tucson. Anne M. Black www.IMPACTIKA.com impact...@aol.com -Original Message- From: Peter Davidson via Meteorite-list To: 'Tommy' ; Meteorite List (meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com) Sent: Fri, Jan 15, 2016 8:40 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million Dear Tommy and All I will be interested to see the reaction of listees to this article. A few years ago I posted a small "flyer" for the work of an artist who had taken a piece of Campo, made a mould of it, melted the meteorite then cast it in the mould she had made earlier and put it on display in an exhibition of her work. This piece of news generated a great deal of, mainly negative, comment on the list. Can someone point out to me how this use of a meteorite, to make a weapon, is different (for better or worse) to the artwork my friend created? Cheers Peter Davidson Senior Curator of Mineralogy Natural Sciences Department National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA TEL: 0131 247 4283 E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Tommy via Meteorite-list Sent: 15 January 2016 13:16 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million http://bit.ly/1SRLDK1 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Join us for BUILD IT! Adventures with LEGO(R) Bricks. A free display and family activities from 29 January�17 April 2016. www.nms.ac.uk/buildit (http://www.nms.ac.uk/buildit) National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
Hi Bob and List, Bingo! (or should I say, Bingol!) - Look, I have the utmost respect for meteorite hunters who go out into the field under harsh conditions (at best) and recover these space treasures. Whether they work for ANSMET, the Crown, or the Meteorite List - it takes determination, money, knowledge, and skill to hunt for meteorites. Governments rarely have those attributes, and that is why the vast majority of meteorites would rot away in the field unrecovered, if not for private hunters. And, we all know that many private hunters are very generous with their finds and donate large amounts of material to science - beyond the 20/20 classification requirement. But, take a look at the numbers in the Bulletin. How many important finds have come out of Australia since their stranglehold laws starting being enforced? The numbers have plummeted. Look at how many scientifically-important finds have come out of Morocco! Those weren't found by ANSMET, the Crown, or the Moroccan government. Dr. Grguric is apparently another example of academic elitism. He looks down his nose at the great unwashed Men of No Letters. In his world, every weathered H5 chondrite should be the exclusive property of a museum or institution. He fails to see the difference between those meteorites that have been almost exhausted of scientific value, and truly important finds like Black Beauty, ungrouped, and anomalous meteorites. Such attitudes are self-defeating and myopic to the extreme. One cannot blame the media for garbage like this. Your average "journalist" nowadays is an intern working for free while trying to finish their communications degree. When a Man of Letters gives them a juicy (click-bait) soundbite, they make no attempt to fact-check it or seek the other point of view. They just print whatever falls out of the source's mouth, and if they don't get that soundbite, they will invent one by twisting the quote out of context. The real problem is intellectual snobbery. Maybe the good doctor has some letters behind his name, but my dog has more common sense. Best regards and Happy Huntings, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 1/15/16, Robert Verish wrote: > Hey Galactic Stone, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel? ;-) > Did this line in that article hit you too close to home: > > "Professor Bland said he suspects there are amateur astronomers who are > frustrated by legislation requiring them to hand back their discoveries from > outer space." > > I find the phrase "hand back" interesting. If you accept that this > meteorite was "stolen from the Queen", then > the only legal recourse for Professor Bland is for him to take that > meteorite back out to the Queen's Outback and > shove it back into that muddy hole from which it was purloined. If you want > it so bad, you know where it is? > > I think this would be a great opportunity for a group discussion comparing > the Queen's "policies" relating to how > meteorite finds are handled in Australia vs. Canada vs. England vs. U.S. > public lands. > Personally, I vote that the U.S. adopt the "policy" version that the > Canadian's enforce. It's proven that it works! > > Galactic Stone is right. It's time to refute the insane rhetoric that a > recently fallen meteorite is an "artifact". Insanity! > > > > On Fri, 1/15/16, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list > wrote: > > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', > researchers required to hand findings over > To: "Tommy" > Cc: "Meteorite List" > Date: Friday, January 15, 2016, 7:50 AM > > More hogwash. The inbox is full of it this morning. > > "Scientific value" - "sitting on the mantlepiece" - "black market" > > This kind of piece belongs in the National Enquirer. > > Dr. Grguric should get together and drink kool-aid with Lindfors > and > the new World Record Martian Loon. > They all have the same level of intelligence apparently. > > > > On 1/15/16, Tommy via > Meteorite-list > > wrote: > > > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-'crown-property'/7091562 > > > > Regards! > > > > Tom > > > __ > __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
Hey Galactic Stone, why don't you tell us how you REALLY feel? ;-) Did this line in that article hit you too close to home: "Professor Bland said he suspects there are amateur astronomers who are frustrated by legislation requiring them to hand back their discoveries from outer space." I find the phrase "hand back" interesting. If you accept that this meteorite was "stolen from the Queen", then the only legal recourse for Professor Bland is for him to take that meteorite back out to the Queen's Outback and shove it back into that muddy hole from which it was purloined. If you want it so bad, you know where it is? I think this would be a great opportunity for a group discussion comparing the Queen's "policies" relating to how meteorite finds are handled in Australia vs. Canada vs. England vs. U.S. public lands. Personally, I vote that the U.S. adopt the "policy" version that the Canadian's enforce. It's proven that it works! Galactic Stone is right. It's time to refute the insane rhetoric that a recently fallen meteorite is an "artifact". Insanity! On Fri, 1/15/16, Galactic Stone & Ironworks via Meteorite-list wrote: Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over To: "Tommy" Cc: "Meteorite List" Date: Friday, January 15, 2016, 7:50 AM More hogwash. The inbox is full of it this morning. "Scientific value" - "sitting on the mantlepiece" - "black market" This kind of piece belongs in the National Enquirer. Dr. Grguric should get together and drink kool-aid with Lindfors and the new World Record Martian Loon. They all have the same level of intelligence apparently. On 1/15/16, Tommy via Meteorite-list wrote: > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-'crown-property'/7091562 > > Regards! > > Tom > __ __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
The only difference between the U.S. and Australia's restrictive meteorite laws is that meteorites belong to the Crown in one country and the federal and now state governments in another. It will not be long before finds on private land here in the U.S. are affected. Public lands are being put off limits at an alarming rate. The more press, the more interest there is in overregulated every aspect of our lives. The old timer, treasure hunters had it correct about keeping your mouth shut about such things. Shameless self-promotion of a few will only lead to more restrictions for everybody else. Adam - Original Message - From: "Tommy via Meteorite-list" To: Sent: Friday, January 15, 2016 5:12 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-'crown-property'/7091562 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
Someone boot this spammer, we don't need any more Steve Curry scammers around. This reads like it was written in an insane asylum. Sent from my iPad > On Jan 15, 2016, at 12:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list > wrote: > > > Meteorite List, > > > Recall: > Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, > use the same email account: > > Ann Cain, Glyn Howard > gfndit(at)hotmail.com > > > > This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader > of the Meteorite List. > > I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. > But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not > in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all > repeatable (empirical). > > I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have > contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. > > > The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this > discovery: > > GSA and GSB > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html > > > The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html > > > I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite > specimens by this Passover. > > > > I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or > vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities > will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background > of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at > Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, > members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have > even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in > their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I > came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I > couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how. > > The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the > moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. > (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) > We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's > nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world > unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the > world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia have > played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job > and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without > games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the > discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to > withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and > to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against > this wall, this unethical gate-k eeping because they didn't have the prerequisite skills or knowledge and they weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process of discovery for everyone. > > The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep > saying it ... > > It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making > scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect > discoveries and intellectual property. > > > "Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. > They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., > as anyone." > -- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, > January-February 2005), p.73 > http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/conduct-unbecoming > > > As it turns out I'm rather glad it happened the way it did. Nothing like > purposeful road-blocks, gate-keeping, and disinformation thrown at me to > motivate me to learn to how to do it myself. As the old adage goes, if you > want something done right you have to do it yourself. The Earth Sciences are > my background. I have the prerequisite skills. It took time but I did it. I'm > still learning. I never stop learning. I didn't do it in a vacuum. I had much > help and assistance along the way, from very good, professional scientists > and technicians who were very ethical and very knowledgeable and very > helpful, and then they did their assigned jobs very professionally and > willingly. One
Re: [meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
More hogwash. The inbox is full of it this morning. "Scientific value" - "sitting on the mantlepiece" - "black market" This kind of piece belongs in the National Enquirer. Dr. Grguric should get together and drink kool-aid with Lindfors and the new World Record Martian Loon. They all have the same level of intelligence apparently. On 1/15/16, Tommy via Meteorite-list wrote: > http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-'crown-property'/7091562 > > Regards! > > Tom > __ > > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
This is absolute hogwash. I have no background in academia, no academic credentials, and before meteorites, I cut trees for a living. I did not know anyone, I did not know the rules, I was a total newcomer back in 2007. I was embraced with open arms, despite the fact that I came across as abrasive and cocky. Multiple scientists have been very nice and accommodating to me. They have looked at some of my specimens that I submitted, and one of them was classified as an LL3.6 - at no cost to me other than postage. There are no conspiracies to keep newcomers out or to silence their discoveries. If that was true, then I wouldn't be here right now. Shut your foolish mouth before and take this load of tin-foil-hat conspiracy shit to Alex Jones - where bullshit is appreciated and spread widely. Or, get together with Goran Lindfors and Steve Curry and have a circle jerk - you are wasting your time here. Yes, I know, I just went on your conspiracy list. I am a lizard man from the Pleiades and I eat babies in the name of Satan. On 1/15/16, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list wrote: > > Meteorite List, > > > Recall: > Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, > use the same email account: > > Ann Cain, Glyn Howard > gfndit(at)hotmail.com > > > > This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader > of the Meteorite List. > > I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your > adjective. But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove > it. I'm not in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. > It's all repeatable (empirical). > > I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have > contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. > > > The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this > discovery: > > GSA and GSB > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html > > > The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: > > http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html > > > I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite > specimens by this Passover. > > > > I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or > vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's > identities will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the > background of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well > known PhDs at Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite > analysts, members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the > years have even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these > specimens in their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were > meteorites before I came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. > However, at the time I couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how. > > The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the > moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. > (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) > We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's > nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world > unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to > the world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia > have played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do > their job and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and > ethically without games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle > from the discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right > to withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, > and to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere > against this wall, this unethical gate-keeping because they didn't have the > prerequisite skills or knowledge and they weren't able to realize that they > were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a result had to walk > away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and > wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could have been a > very cooperative process of discovery for everyone. > > The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep > saying it ... > > It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and > making scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect > discoveries and intellectual property. > > > "Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. > They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., > as anyone." > -- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, > January-February 2
Re: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million
Dear Tommy and All I will be interested to see the reaction of listees to this article. A few years ago I posted a small "flyer" for the work of an artist who had taken a piece of Campo, made a mould of it, melted the meteorite then cast it in the mould she had made earlier and put it on display in an exhibition of her work. This piece of news generated a great deal of, mainly negative, comment on the list. Can someone point out to me how this use of a meteorite, to make a weapon, is different (for better or worse) to the artwork my friend created? Cheers Peter Davidson Senior Curator of Mineralogy Natural Sciences Department National Museums Collection Centre 242 West Granton Road Edinburgh EH5 1JA TEL: 0131 247 4283 E-mail: p.david...@nms.ac.uk -Original Message- From: Meteorite-list [mailto:meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com] On Behalf Of Tommy via Meteorite-list Sent: 15 January 2016 13:16 To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million http://bit.ly/1SRLDK1 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Join us for BUILD IT! Adventures with LEGO(R) Bricks. A free display and family activities from 29 January17 April 2016. www.nms.ac.uk/buildit (http://www.nms.ac.uk/buildit) National Museums Scotland, Scottish Charity, No. SC 011130 This communication is intended for the addressee(s) only. If you are not the addressee please inform the sender and delete the email from your system. The statements and opinions expressed in this message are those of the author and do not necessarily reflect those of National Museums Scotland. This message is subject to the Data Protection Act 1998 and Freedom of Information (Scotland) Act 2002. No liability is accepted for any harm that may be caused to your systems or data by this message. __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
Mendy and All, I have a queasy feeling in the pit of my stomach. My nose is twitching and I smell an unpleasant odor. Like I'm standing near an outhouse in Colorado. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 MetSoc Message- >From: Gmail via Meteorite-list >Sent: Jan 15, 2016 5:26 AM >To: Ann Cain , Met-List > >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery > >There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided >legitimacy to your story and your rocks. > >You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and >meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your >rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial >interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of >scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black >Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed >because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large. > >If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices >for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get >past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would >only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by >any number of factors such as but not limited to supply. > >Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good >for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is >worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only >hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara (derogatory >speech) and move on. > >Respectfully, > >Mendy Ouzillou > >On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list > wrote: > > >Meteorite List, > > >Recall: >Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use >the same email account: > >Ann Cain, Glyn Howard >gfndit(at)hotmail.com > > > >This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader >of the Meteorite List. > >I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. >But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not >in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all >repeatable (empirical). > >I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted >me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. > > >The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this >discovery: > >GSA and GSB > >http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html > >http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html > >http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html > > >The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: > >http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html > > >I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite >specimens by this Passover. > > > >I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or >vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities >will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of >this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at >Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members >of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even >posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their >hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came >to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't >prove the parent body. I didn't know how. > >The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the >moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. >(Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) >We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's >nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world >unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the >world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia have >played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job >and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without >games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer >the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to withhold the >discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and to protect it. >How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against this wall, this >unethical gate-ke e > ping because they didn't have the prerequisite skills or knowledge and they > weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed > disinformation, and as a result had to walk
Re: [meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
There is no conspiracy except the one you have created to bring some misguided legitimacy to your story and your rocks. You also do an immense disservice to our dedicated scientist and meteoriticists. They have no malicious intent to prejudicially reject your rocks. Their motive is furthering science not protecting the financial interests of dealers and collectors. You are accusing the same group of scientists who in recent years identified new Martian meteorites like Black Beauty. My point is that a new and exciting discovery would not be suppressed because it would benefit the scientist personally and the community at large. If you actually looked at market trends, you would soon discover that prices for Martian Shergottites are falling because of an oversupply. Once you get past the 1 or 2kg the scientific community would EVER need, the rest would only be of concern for the collector community and the price would be set by any number of factors such as but not limited to supply. Finally, I am offended that you refer to Tikkun Olam (repairing or doing good for the benefit of the world). You are doing quite the opposite and what is worse doing so for ego and personal benefit. When Yom Kippur comes, I can only hope that you will be honest with yourself, atone for lashon hara (derogatory speech) and move on. Respectfully, Mendy Ouzillou On Jan 15, 2016, at 1:59 AM, Ann Cain via Meteorite-list wrote: Meteorite List, Recall: Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use the same email account: Ann Cain, Glyn Howard gfndit(at)hotmail.com This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of the Meteorite List. I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable (empirical). I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this discovery: GSA and GSB http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite specimens by this Passover. I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how. The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia have played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against this wall, this unethical gate-kee ping because they didn't have the prerequisite skills or knowledge and they weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process of discovery for everyone. The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep saying it ... It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect discoveries and intellectual property. "Contrary t
[meteorite-list] Guns made of meteorite: Price tag $1 million
http://bit.ly/1SRLDK1 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] Lake Eyre meteorite 'Crown property', researchers required to hand findings over
http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-01-15/lake-eyre-meteorite-'crown-property'/7091562 Regards! Tom __ Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
[meteorite-list] The US World Record Mars Meteorite Discovery
Meteorite List, Recall: Both my sister Ann Cain (who opened the email account) and I, Glyn Howard, use the same email account: Ann Cain, Glyn Howard gfndit(at)hotmail.com This has been a long time coming ... for many years now I have been a reader of the Meteorite List. I know this discovery sounds Wow! Unbelievable. Surreal. Pick your adjective. But it is what is is. All the physical empirical evidences prove it. I'm not in fear of re-confirmation. I welcome it. I know what it is. It's all repeatable (empirical). I appreciate well-known PhD members from the Meteorite List who have contacted me off-line. I will respond. Please give me time. The evidence for the typical Mars meteorite key type specimens for this discovery: GSA and GSB http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidence.html http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSA.html http://gfoundit-mars.com/TheEvidenceGSB.html The Gallery of US World Record Mars Meteorite specimens: http://gfoundit-mars.com/GalleryOfImages.html I will be putting-up/finishing the gallery of World Record Mars meteorite specimens by this Passover. I do not want to hurt anyone's professional reputation. I'm not a mean or vengeful person. The full complete back story and certain people's identities will remain private. Just know there is a private history in the background of this incredible discovery and full story. Several very well known PhDs at Universities in the meteoritics community, who are meteorite analysts, members of the Meteoritcal Society, and perhaps at times over the years have even posted here on the Meteorite List, have held some of these specimens in their hands, have done tests. They know. I knew they were meteorites before I came to them. I knew that they were achondrites. However, at the time I couldn't prove the parent body. I didn't know how. The moment I wasn't willing to share or reveal the discovery site is the moment the road-blocks, the walls, the disinformation began toward me. (Extrusive igneous Dacite, an evolved lava, is not a sedimentary rock! Lol.) We've seen this kind of behavior in the meteoritcs community before. It's nothing new, sadly. This is a dark history of the meteoritics world unfortunately. How many very rare important discoveries have been lost to the world of science and to mankind because those in research and academia have played unethical games of gate-keeping and have refused to just do their job and just do pure science and do the analysis honestly and ethically without games, without gate-keeping, without attempting to wrestle from the discoverer the original discovery site? The discoverer has a right to withhold the discovery site to guard their discovery and its full value, and to protect it. How many people over the many years couldn't persevere against this wall, this unethical gate-keeping because they didn't have the prerequisite skills or knowledge and they weren't able to realize that they were lied to or purposefully fed disinformation, and as a result had to walk away and give up, with an incredible treasure of scientific knowledge and wealth in their hand? It could of been very different. It could have been a very cooperative process of discovery for everyone. The original discoverer has rights. I've said it before , and I'll keep saying it ... It takes discoverers to make scientific discoveries. Doing science and making scientific discoveries is not a crime. There is a right to protect discoveries and intellectual property. "Contrary to their public image, scientists are normal, flawed human beings. They are as capable of prejudice, covetousness, pride, deceitfulness, etc., as anyone." -- David Weatherall, "Conduct Unbecoming," American Scientist (Vol.93, January-February 2005), p.73 http://www.americanscientist.org/bookshelf/pub/conduct-unbecoming As it turns out I'm rather glad it happened the way it did. Nothing like purposeful road-blocks, gate-keeping, and disinformation thrown at me to motivate me to learn to how to do it myself. As the old adage goes, if you want something done right you have to do it yourself. The Earth Sciences are my background. I have the prerequisite skills. It took time but I did it. I'm still learning. I never stop learning. I didn't do it in a vacuum. I had much help and assistance along the way, from very good, professional scientists and technicians who were very ethical and very knowledgeable and very helpful, and then they did their assigned jobs very professionally and willingly. One day when the story can be told completely in detail I will certainly call out personally all those who helped me. The others who didn't, I will anonymously thank for motivating me to learn meteoritics and to learn to do it on my own. I have enjoyed the scientific process immensely. Much more to come. And I can prove what I know. Why when making the discovery of meteorites in the field, why then give away the scientifi