Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

It's too late to take the high road, Adam. 
Your true colors have been revealed.



Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 11/3/17 at 9:42 PM, Adam Hupe wrote:

> John,
> 
> Posting private emails to the list is against the rules and in poor 
> taste.  I have wasted enough time with endless debates in the past with 
> this individual.
> 
> Gain some character and a moral compass.  Piggy-backing and self-pairing 
> are not alright with honest dealers and collectors who take the extra 
> steps to insure authenticity above all else.
> 
> Adam
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Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

John,

Posting private emails to the list is against the rules and in poor 
taste.  I have wasted enough time with endless debates in the past with 
this individual.


Gain some character and a moral compass.  Piggy-backing and self-pairing 
are not alright with honest dealers and collectors who take the extra 
steps to insure authenticity above all else.


Adam

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Re: [meteorite-list] Fwd: Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

That's really sad, Adam...

How sad that after all your years of life and experience in the meteorite 
world, you failed to develop the skills you need to face a challenge from a 
peer with some dignity.



Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 11/3/17 at 7:49 PM, Jason Utas wrote:

> -- Forwarded message --
> From: Adam Hupe 
> Date: Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 2:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage
> Auctions
> To: Jason Utas 
> 
> 
> 
> Jason,
> 
> You are worthless and a waste of time.  You have already been exposed and
> are a joke in academic circles.
> 
> Go argue with the losers on Facebook.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/3/2017 12:45 PM, Jason Utas wrote:
> 
> >I cleaned each individual and made sure the classifying scientist examined
> each and every one of them after a type specimen was submitted.
> 
> Hold the phone.  Someone simply *looked at* the stones to determine that
> they were paired!? You washed them, showed them to a third party, and
> they're paired?  That's "self-pairing," by a third party.
> 
> And it means that someone "qualified" can pair a meteorite to your
> standards, *just by looking at it.*  That's good to know.
> 
> What's the necessary degree?  Geology?  Or just analytical experience in
> general?  You and I both know that classifying scientists tend to be
> *worse* than experienced collectors or dealers at determining what a rock
> is, just by looking at it.  They don't usually see whole rocks.  They need
> a thin section and probe data before rendering a verdict.  Fe/Mn ratios.
> Oxygen isotopes.
> 
> John's completely right.  You're just using *other* purely subjective
> criteria to determine who's qualified to pair meteorites by looking at
> them.  But those criteria don't make any sense.  Most experienced dealers
> and collectors have seen more rare meteorites in hand sample than the
> average analytical scientist.
> 
> 
> And I'll mention again the mislabeled NWA 978 and "Tafrawet" we purchased
> directly from you, years ago [actually NWA 753 and a new IAB, NWA 3200].
> 
> Let me repeat myself.  You sold me this new iron meteorite
>  as a new mass of  this one
>  because you
> screwed up a self-pairing.
> 
> Honestly, the NWA 3200 should be enough to get you to put a pin in this.
> You sliced the iron and sold it on ebay in separate auctions.  We already
> had a piece of Tafrawet: I noticed that the pattern and inclusions were
> *completely* different.  We purchased all of the remaining slices, but you
> had already sold some via buy-it-now, as Tafrawet.  After giving a slice to
> UCLA -- yep, it was a new IAB, not even a IIIAB.  We tried to contact the
> other eBay buyers when it was all sorted out, but weren't able to reach all
> of them.  Oops.  Mislabeled material in circulation.  Must have been
> someone else's fault.
> 
> Peter mistakenly bought the *NWA 753* because we had a large fragment of
> it.  He wanted a slice to go with it.  He trusted your label.  Oops.  Wrong
> meteorite.
> 
> Heck, it's not like they look *remotely* similar.  Here's a slice of NWA 753
>  and one of NWA 978
> .  Those photos are from
> Mike Farmer's website.  A reputable dealer *who can tell the difference.*
> Maybe you just wanted to sell the more common R-chondrite as one with a
> smaller TKW?  I don't know.  And, at the end of the day, it doesn't
> matter.
> 
> That's just two examples in our cabinets.
> 
> You were just as guilty as any other dealer for a decade or so.  NWA 753,
> NWA 801, NWA 2969, etc., etc., etc.  You self-paired hundreds (thousands?)
> of ordinary chondrites, carbonaceous chondrites, irons, and achondrites.
> And I wouldn't be calling you out on this if you weren't being such a prick
> about it to everyone else.
> 
> I guess it's pretty easy to point fingers at new meteorites when you only
> have one stone left to sell.  And I doubt you paid less than the
> $10-15/gram the new Lunars are fetching.  That must be rough.  I can
> understand where you're coming from, but you're not going to get much
> sympathy if you carry on like this.
> 
> Jason
> 
> On Fri, Nov 3, 2017 at 11:17 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list <
> meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> wrote:
> 
> > I reported every single stone in the NWA 1110 Martian pairing which
> > amounted to several dozen.  I cleaned each individual and made sure the
> > classifying scientist examined each and every one of them after a type
> > specimen was submitted.  Then an image was taken of the entire lot and
> > submitted to the Nomenclature Committee.  I generally avoid pairings since
> > they are so troublesome and are piggy-backed constantly.  Over ten lazy
> > dealers self-paired to NWA 1110 which was an official 

Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[bobadebt--- via Meteorite-list]

Thank you the links to the online catalog.  There was some amazing items 
listed


I was intrigued by the value of the spheres they had listed, based on that, 
I must have a world class collection ;) 



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Re: [meteorite-list] Warning: Meteorite Fraud Alert

[Carl Esparza via Meteorite-list]

Gary, Thanks, I just unfriended him on facebook. By the way, We had 36 mutual 
friends on facebook. Carl.
--
Love & Life

 Gary Fujihara via Meteorite-list  
wrote: 
> Aloha mai kākou,

I would like to warn all meteorite collectors, dealers, scientists, etc of a 
person by the name of Sadam Cheikh el Hsene, who lives in Mauritania and goes 
by the name of Meteorites Mauritanie on Facebook. This person perpetrated a 
fraud on me and stole my money. He has not made any effort to remedy the 
situation in the two months since the initial transaction. 

I recently discovered yesterday that Sadam Cheikh el Hsene has stolen money 
from four other of my friends. I have been patiently waiting in the hopes that 
Sadam Cheikh el Hsene would do the right thing, but after discovering that 
others have also been his victims, it is my obligation and duty to warn all 
people of this person. 

Caveat emptor.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites Inc.
PO Box 4175, Hilo, HI  96720
(808) 640-9161
http://www.ebay.com/sch/fujmon/m.html

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[meteorite-list] Warning: Meteorite Fraud Alert

[Gary Fujihara via Meteorite-list]

Aloha mai kākou,

I would like to warn all meteorite collectors, dealers, scientists, etc of a 
person by the name of Sadam Cheikh el Hsene, who lives in Mauritania and goes 
by the name of Meteorites Mauritanie on Facebook. This person perpetrated a 
fraud on me and stole my money. He has not made any effort to remedy the 
situation in the two months since the initial transaction. 

I recently discovered yesterday that Sadam Cheikh el Hsene has stolen money 
from four other of my friends. I have been patiently waiting in the hopes that 
Sadam Cheikh el Hsene would do the right thing, but after discovering that 
others have also been his victims, it is my obligation and duty to warn all 
people of this person. 

Caveat emptor.

Gary Fujihara
Big Kahuna Meteorites Inc.
PO Box 4175, Hilo, HI  96720
(808) 640-9161
http://www.ebay.com/sch/fujmon/m.html

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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

I reported every single stone in the NWA 1110 Martian pairing which 
amounted to several dozen.  I cleaned each individual and made sure the 
classifying scientist examined each and every one of them after a type 
specimen was submitted.  Then an image was taken of the entire lot and 
submitted to the Nomenclature Committee.  I generally avoid pairings 
since they are so troublesome and are piggy-backed constantly.  Over ten 
lazy dealers self-paired to NWA 1110 which was an official pairing in 
itself. Do you think this is fair to honest dealers who do all the heavy 
lifting and follow the rules?


Image of entire NWA 1110 lot:
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/get_original_photo.php?recno=5631053

Bulletin entry:
https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?sea=NWA+1110=namescontains=50=ge==All=name=All=All===0=Normal%20table=17124

Remember, that a so-called meteorite "dealer" went to jail for 
piggy-backing and self-classification of stones which turned out to be 
terrestrial.  Now that he is out, he is filling out whistle blower forms 
with the IRS on meteorite dealers in the United States in hopes of 
collecting a 15% reward.


Stones that are are self-paired carry a lot of risk,

Adam



On 11/3/2017 10:16 AM, Bigjohn Shea wrote:

"Self-pairing is a slippery slope.  Allowing laymen/dealers/Moroccans to classify 
their own stones opens up the entire meteorite collectable sector to fraud."

Hence my condition that the seller needs to be "reliable". A subjective term, 
yes, but it is impossible to formally pair every stone. If that were the expectation from 
collectors then very little material would change hands... Also, that is the slippery 
slope we live on. The only slope we live on. More on this below...

"Collectors deserve to know what they are getting and how much by weight is really 
available."

Black Beauty sells high because it's an interesting classification, not because 
of low TKW... Low TKW alone is not a great motivating factor for collectors.

"Unfair trade practices are at an all-time high when "dealers" fail to report 
accurate weights and number of stones."

Report to who? Report by who? I can't call up the MetSoc and say, "Hey I found ten 
more pieces of BB. Add these 80g to the TKW." It doesn't work that way. Not every 
specimen can come in form of an 11.53kg single mass with no pairings... ;-) If I want to 
formally pair ten pieces as paired to the original BB, all ten of them need to be 
studied, and have a classification written for them. What if 9 of them weigh less than 
4g? Who's going to sacrifice 20% plus another 1g for a thin section plus cut loss of 
those 9 specimens weighing less than 4g that they paid 500$/g to a Moroccan merchant? 
Apply that same logic to every other DCA worldwide and you'll need a workforce of 
scientists that cannot exist, all trained to handle the load of pairings.

We don't live in the reality where every piece of meteorite that should be 
formally paired can actually get formally paired, and I doubt we ever did or 
ever will. We live in the reality where buyers and dealers are responsible for 
deciding whether or not they are really buying BB (or any other specific 
classification) when they are buying a specimen that hasn't been formally 
paired. If they can't do that, then they should only buy from people who they 
consider trustworthy.

Stepping off my soapbox...

Have a good one.
John








Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 11/3/17 at 10:51 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list wrote:


Self-pairing is a slippery slope.  Allowing laymen/dealers/Moroccans to
classify their own stones opens up the entire meteorite collectable
sector to fraud.  One just needs to see the damage it created with
Martian meteorites a few years ago when collector confidence was at an
all-time low in regards to material from Mars.

Collectors deserve to know what they are getting and how much by weight
is really available.  "Black Beauty" is an example of where, if the real
TKW where known, it would fetch only a fraction of its current price.
The recorded amount doesn't come close to how much is really available.

Unfair trade practices are at an all-time high when "dealers" fail to
report accurate weights and number of stones.  Self-pairing,
piggybacking and bypassing all of the protections provided to collectors
by skipping established classification protocols places the entire
market in jeopardy.

Adam




On 11/3/2017 5:25 AM, Bigjohn Shea wrote:

Sorta feels like we are rehashing an old topic in a new form here...

It is common and even justifiable for people to be attached to the concept of 
formal pairings and classification for specimens, particularly when they pride 
themselves on selling specimens of a well known classification.

However, like most items in the world of collectibles, who you buy from is just as important as 
what you are buying. If the source is reliable, then the "self-pairing", or 
"probable pairing" can obviously be trusted.

Cheers,

Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

"Self-pairing is a slippery slope.  Allowing laymen/dealers/Moroccans to 
classify their own stones opens up the entire meteorite collectable sector to 
fraud."

Hence my condition that the seller needs to be "reliable". A subjective term, 
yes, but it is impossible to formally pair every stone. If that were the 
expectation from collectors then very little material would change hands... 
Also, that is the slippery slope we live on. The only slope we live on. More on 
this below...

"Collectors deserve to know what they are getting and how much by weight is 
really available."

Black Beauty sells high because it's an interesting classification, not because 
of low TKW... Low TKW alone is not a great motivating factor for collectors.

"Unfair trade practices are at an all-time high when "dealers" fail to report 
accurate weights and number of stones."

Report to who? Report by who? I can't call up the MetSoc and say, "Hey I found 
ten more pieces of BB. Add these 80g to the TKW." It doesn't work that way. Not 
every specimen can come in form of an 11.53kg single mass with no pairings... 
;-) If I want to formally pair ten pieces as paired to the original BB, all ten 
of them need to be studied, and have a classification written for them. What if 
9 of them weigh less than 4g? Who's going to sacrifice 20% plus another 1g for 
a thin section plus cut loss of those 9 specimens weighing less than 4g that 
they paid 500$/g to a Moroccan merchant? Apply that same logic to every other 
DCA worldwide and you'll need a workforce of scientists that cannot exist, all 
trained to handle the load of pairings.

We don't live in the reality where every piece of meteorite that should be 
formally paired can actually get formally paired, and I doubt we ever did or 
ever will. We live in the reality where buyers and dealers are responsible for 
deciding whether or not they are really buying BB (or any other specific 
classification) when they are buying a specimen that hasn't been formally 
paired. If they can't do that, then they should only buy from people who they 
consider trustworthy.

Stepping off my soapbox...

Have a good one.
John








Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 11/3/17 at 10:51 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list wrote:

> Self-pairing is a slippery slope.  Allowing laymen/dealers/Moroccans to 
> classify their own stones opens up the entire meteorite collectable 
> sector to fraud.  One just needs to see the damage it created with 
> Martian meteorites a few years ago when collector confidence was at an 
> all-time low in regards to material from Mars.
> 
> Collectors deserve to know what they are getting and how much by weight 
> is really available.  "Black Beauty" is an example of where, if the real 
> TKW where known, it would fetch only a fraction of its current price. 
> The recorded amount doesn't come close to how much is really available.
> 
> Unfair trade practices are at an all-time high when "dealers" fail to 
> report accurate weights and number of stones.  Self-pairing, 
> piggybacking and bypassing all of the protections provided to collectors 
> by skipping established classification protocols places the entire 
> market in jeopardy.
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 11/3/2017 5:25 AM, Bigjohn Shea wrote:
> > Sorta feels like we are rehashing an old topic in a new form here...
> > 
> > It is common and even justifiable for people to be attached to the concept 
> > of formal pairings and classification for specimens, particularly when they 
> > pride themselves on selling specimens of a well known classification.
> > 
> > However, like most items in the world of collectibles, who you buy from is 
> > just as important as what you are buying. If the source is reliable, then 
> > the "self-pairing", or "probable pairing" can obviously be trusted.
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > John A. Shea, MD
> > IMCA 3295
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Sent using the mail.com mail app
> > 
> > On 11/3/17 at 3:34 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list wrote:
> > 
> >> How could it possibly be the main mass when it is claimed to be part of
> >> the NWA 8455 "clan" which consists of 15 names under its many pairings?
> >> The single NWA 8455 stone was reported to weigh 2,814 grams which would
> >> make it the current "main mass" of this pairing group.
> >>
> >> This also doesn't explain why much more than 3 complete stones reported
> >> under the La'gad pairing have been placed on the market. The TKW of this
> >> pairing was supposed to be only 338 grams yet this amount has been
> >> greatly exceeded.
> >>
> >> It appears unclassified (self-paired) stones have been placed on the
> >> market using the La'gad nomenclature.  There are many keeping track of
> >> what is being offered.
> >>
> >> Adam
> >>
> >>
> >> On 11/3/2017 12:40 AM, Robert Verish via Meteorite-list wrote:
> >>> Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD 
> >>> entry for the La'gad meteorite.
> >>> It was a simple, but polite, way to point out 

[meteorite-list] AD - Sikhote Alin End Cuts & 1 Polished Fragment + Processing Info

[bobadebt--- via Meteorite-list]

A fellow list member Derek sent me a 2504 gram end cut of Sikhote Alin to 
process into end cuts, slices and a rough for my 50mm sphere


With my current work schedule it took about 5 days making one cut per day.

Here are some pics of the processed material

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Sikhote%20Alin/SA%20End%20Cuts%20003_zpslaprdlwr.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Sikhote%20Alin/SA%20End%20Cuts%20001_zpscmctbiqm.jpg

http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p298/BobaDebt/Meteorites/Sikhote%20Alin/SA%20End%20Cuts%20002_zpsiymeo6ai.jpg


We ended up with the following


A – 262 gram end cut with 5 cut faces
B – 358 gram end cut with 3 cut faces
C – 163 gram end cut with 3 cut faces
D – 443 true end cut, single cut face.  This is the nicest end cut of the 
lot

E – 14 fragment consisting of what looks like 2 crystals


So we have a total of 1240 sellable grams and after looking at current 
successful eBay listings, Derek and I decided to initially list these at $3 
per gram.




If you are interested in any of this send an email to bobad...@ec.rr.com


C sold in less then a day when I posted it to forum I frequent.  When I was 
polishing it, a corner separated and at first I was disappointed but then I 
discovered it sits perfectly in place so it became a feature.


Check out this video and you will understand 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZH8hFTDA2Xg





My sphere rough weighs 1126 grams and Dmitry is going to earn his money if 
he gets a 50mm sphere for this rough because it is tight.



We had an initial cut loss of 138 grams or right around 5% so that’s good 



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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

Self-pairing is a slippery slope.  Allowing laymen/dealers/Moroccans to 
classify their own stones opens up the entire meteorite collectable 
sector to fraud.  One just needs to see the damage it created with 
Martian meteorites a few years ago when collector confidence was at an 
all-time low in regards to material from Mars.


Collectors deserve to know what they are getting and how much by weight 
is really available.  "Black Beauty" is an example of where, if the real 
TKW where known, it would fetch only a fraction of its current price. 
The recorded amount doesn't come close to how much is really available.


Unfair trade practices are at an all-time high when "dealers" fail to 
report accurate weights and number of stones.  Self-pairing, 
piggybacking and bypassing all of the protections provided to collectors 
by skipping established classification protocols places the entire 
market in jeopardy.


Adam




On 11/3/2017 5:25 AM, Bigjohn Shea wrote:

Sorta feels like we are rehashing an old topic in a new form here...

It is common and even justifiable for people to be attached to the concept of 
formal pairings and classification for specimens, particularly when they pride 
themselves on selling specimens of a well known classification.

However, like most items in the world of collectibles, who you buy from is just as important as 
what you are buying. If the source is reliable, then the "self-pairing", or 
"probable pairing" can obviously be trusted.

Cheers,
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295




Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 11/3/17 at 3:34 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list wrote:


How could it possibly be the main mass when it is claimed to be part of
the NWA 8455 "clan" which consists of 15 names under its many pairings?
The single NWA 8455 stone was reported to weigh 2,814 grams which would
make it the current "main mass" of this pairing group.

This also doesn't explain why much more than 3 complete stones reported
under the La'gad pairing have been placed on the market. The TKW of this
pairing was supposed to be only 338 grams yet this amount has been
greatly exceeded.

It appears unclassified (self-paired) stones have been placed on the
market using the La'gad nomenclature.  There are many keeping track of
what is being offered.

Adam


On 11/3/2017 12:40 AM, Robert Verish via Meteorite-list wrote:

Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD entry 
for the La'gad meteorite.
It was a simple, but polite, way to point out that all of the questions that 
have been asked about this meteorite have their answers in that entry.

It shouldn't be necessary, but now that the dust-up has settled, I feel 
compelled to clear away any lingering misconceptions:
there is no question, this is the La'gad meteorite
there is no question who the classifier is, nor what is the classification
there is no question who found this meteorite, or where it was found
there is no question who owns this meteorite
there is no question at all about the provenance of this meteorite
there is no question that this is the main-mass of the La'gad meteorite.

The stone in the auction weighs 171grams and has had a sample cut from it, 
other wise it would weigh 186.24grams. This matches the MBD entry.
Having the stone called-out in the MBD and having it be the main-mass, and 
having the type-specimen be from that mass, is a premium for collectors.
Having the coords recorded in the MBD and having a name (like La'gad) and not a 
number is a premium for collectors, as well.

Taking everything into consideration, this Lunar would be a positive addition 
to any collection.
Bob V.

--
   
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎06‎:‎18‎:‎45‎ ‎PM, Peter Marmet via Meteorite-list  wrote:
  
Adam Hupe wrote via Meteorite-list :

La'gad doesn't show up in the Meteoritical Bulletin. What institution or 
scientist examined this exact specimen or is it unofficial or self-paired?


https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63189

Cheers,
Peter

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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Robert Verish via Meteorite-list]

 Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD entry 
for the La'gad meteorite.  It was a simple, but polite, way to point out that 
all of the questions that have been asked about this meteorite have their 
answers in that entry. 
It shouldn't be necessary, but now that the dust-up has settled, I feel 
compelled to clear away any lingering misconceptions: there is no question, 
this is the La'gad meteorite there is no question who the classifier is, nor 
what is the classification there is no question who found this meteorite, or 
where it was found there is no question who owns this meteorite there is no 
question at all about the provenance of this meteorite there is no question 
that this is the main-mass of the La'gad meteorite. 
The stone in the auction weighs 171grams and has had a sample cut from it, 
other wise it would weigh 186.24grams. This matches the MBD entry. Having the 
stone called-out in the MBD and having it be the main-mass, and having the 
type-specimen be from that mass, is a premium for collectors. Having the coords 
recorded in the MBD and having a name (like La'gad) and not a number is a 
premium for collectors, as well. 
Taking everything into consideration, this Lunar would be a positive addition 
to any collection.  Bob V. 
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎06‎:‎18‎:‎45‎ ‎PM, Peter Marmet via 
Meteorite-list  wrote:  
 
 

Adam Hupe wrote via Meteorite-list :
La'gad doesn't show up in the Meteoritical Bulletin. What institution or 
scientist examined this exact specimen or is it unofficial or self-paired?

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63189
Cheers,Peter
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Bigjohn Shea via Meteorite-list]

Sorta feels like we are rehashing an old topic in a new form here...

It is common and even justifiable for people to be attached to the concept of 
formal pairings and classification for specimens, particularly when they pride 
themselves on selling specimens of a well known classification. 

However, like most items in the world of collectibles, who you buy from is just 
as important as what you are buying. If the source is reliable, then the 
"self-pairing", or "probable pairing" can obviously be trusted.

Cheers,
John A. Shea, MD
IMCA 3295




Sent using the mail.com mail app

On 11/3/17 at 3:34 AM, Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list wrote:

> How could it possibly be the main mass when it is claimed to be part of 
> the NWA 8455 "clan" which consists of 15 names under its many pairings? 
> The single NWA 8455 stone was reported to weigh 2,814 grams which would 
> make it the current "main mass" of this pairing group.
> 
> This also doesn't explain why much more than 3 complete stones reported 
> under the La'gad pairing have been placed on the market. The TKW of this 
> pairing was supposed to be only 338 grams yet this amount has been 
> greatly exceeded.
> 
> It appears unclassified (self-paired) stones have been placed on the 
> market using the La'gad nomenclature.  There are many keeping track of 
> what is being offered.
> 
> Adam
> 
> 
> On 11/3/2017 12:40 AM, Robert Verish via Meteorite-list wrote:
> > Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD 
> > entry for the La'gad meteorite.
> > It was a simple, but polite, way to point out that all of the questions 
> > that have been asked about this meteorite have their answers in that entry.
> > 
> > It shouldn't be necessary, but now that the dust-up has settled, I feel 
> > compelled to clear away any lingering misconceptions:
> > there is no question, this is the La'gad meteorite
> > there is no question who the classifier is, nor what is the classification
> > there is no question who found this meteorite, or where it was found
> > there is no question who owns this meteorite
> > there is no question at all about the provenance of this meteorite
> > there is no question that this is the main-mass of the La'gad meteorite.
> > 
> > The stone in the auction weighs 171grams and has had a sample cut from it, 
> > other wise it would weigh 186.24grams. This matches the MBD entry.
> > Having the stone called-out in the MBD and having it be the main-mass, and 
> > having the type-specimen be from that mass, is a premium for collectors.
> > Having the coords recorded in the MBD and having a name (like La'gad) and 
> > not a number is a premium for collectors, as well.
> > 
> > Taking everything into consideration, this Lunar would be a positive 
> > addition to any collection.
> > Bob V.
> > 
> > --
> >   
> > On ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎06‎:‎18‎:‎45‎ ‎PM, Peter Marmet via 
> > Meteorite-list  wrote:
> >  
> > Adam Hupe wrote via Meteorite-list :
> >> La'gad doesn't show up in the Meteoritical Bulletin. What institution or 
> >> scientist examined this exact specimen or is it unofficial or self-paired?
> > 
> > https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63189
> > 
> > Cheers,
> > Peter
> > 
> > __
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > __
> > 
> > Visit our Facebook page https://www.facebook.com/meteoritecentral and the 
> > Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com
> > Meteorite-list mailing list
> > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
> > https://pairlist3.pair.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
> > 
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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Robert Verish via Meteorite-list]

I meant to include the following information in my last message:  

The other Lunar meteorite from Western Sahara in this auction is NWA 10986 
(Lunar, highlands feldspathic impact-melt breccia). 
And if you have any questions about this Lunar, the answers can be found here 
in the Met Bull Database: 

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=64445 

Additional information is also on Randy Korotev's website (with images from 
Sarah Roberts) here: 

http://meteorites.wustl.edu/lunar/stones/nwa10986.htm 

Sarah Roberts and her colleagues have found this Lunar meteorite so interesting 
that they have published two papers: 
https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/lpsc2017/pdf/2220.pdf 
and 
https://www.hou.usra.edu/meetings/metsoc2017/pdf/6110.pdf 

Having in a collection a Lunar meteorite that has 2 papers published about it, 
is considered to be a premium by collectors. 

Bob V. 
Any questions? 
https://tinyurl.com/Any-ques


 --  
On ‎Friday‎, ‎November‎ ‎03‎, ‎2017‎ ‎12‎:‎40‎:‎58‎ ‎AM, Robert Verish via 
Meteorite-list  wrote: 

Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD entry 
for the La'gad meteorite.  
It was a simple, but polite, way to point out that all of the questions that 
have been asked about this meteorite have their answers in that entry. 

It shouldn't be necessary, but now that the dust-up has settled, I feel 
compelled to clear away any lingering misconceptions: 
there is no question, this is the La'gad meteorite 
there is no question who the classifier is, nor what is the classification 
there is no question who found this meteorite, or where it was found 
there is no question who owns this meteorite 
there is no question at all about the provenance of this meteorite 
there is no question that this is the main-mass of the La'gad meteorite. 

The stone in the auction weighs 171grams and has had a sample cut from it, 
other wise it would weigh 186.24grams. This matches the MBD entry. 
Having the stone called-out in the MBD and having it be the main-mass, and 
having the type-specimen be from that mass, is a premium for collectors. 
Having the coords recorded in the MBD and having a name (like La'gad) and not a 
number is a premium for collectors, as well. 

Taking everything into consideration, this Lunar would be a positive addition 
to any collection.  
Bob V. 

--
 
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎06‎:‎18‎:‎45‎ ‎PM, Peter Marmet via 
Meteorite-list  wrote: 
    
Adam Hupe wrote via Meteorite-list :
> La'gad doesn't show up in the Meteoritical Bulletin. What institution or 
> scientist examined this exact specimen or is it unofficial or self-paired?

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63189

Cheers,
Peter

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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Adam Hupe via Meteorite-list]

How could it possibly be the main mass when it is claimed to be part of 
the NWA 8455 "clan" which consists of 15 names under its many pairings? 
The single NWA 8455 stone was reported to weigh 2,814 grams which would 
make it the current "main mass" of this pairing group.


This also doesn't explain why much more than 3 complete stones reported 
under the La'gad pairing have been placed on the market. The TKW of this 
pairing was supposed to be only 338 grams yet this amount has been 
greatly exceeded.


It appears unclassified (self-paired) stones have been placed on the 
market using the La'gad nomenclature.  There are many keeping track of 
what is being offered.


Adam


On 11/3/2017 12:40 AM, Robert Verish via Meteorite-list wrote:

Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD entry 
for the La'gad meteorite.
It was a simple, but polite, way to point out that all of the questions that 
have been asked about this meteorite have their answers in that entry.

It shouldn't be necessary, but now that the dust-up has settled, I feel 
compelled to clear away any lingering misconceptions:
there is no question, this is the La'gad meteorite
there is no question who the classifier is, nor what is the classification
there is no question who found this meteorite, or where it was found
there is no question who owns this meteorite
there is no question at all about the provenance of this meteorite
there is no question that this is the main-mass of the La'gad meteorite.

The stone in the auction weighs 171grams and has had a sample cut from it, 
other wise it would weigh 186.24grams. This matches the MBD entry.
Having the stone called-out in the MBD and having it be the main-mass, and 
having the type-specimen be from that mass, is a premium for collectors.
Having the coords recorded in the MBD and having a name (like La'gad) and not a 
number is a premium for collectors, as well.

Taking everything into consideration, this Lunar would be a positive addition 
to any collection.
Bob V.

--
  
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎06‎:‎18‎:‎45‎ ‎PM, Peter Marmet via Meteorite-list  wrote:
 
Adam Hupe wrote via Meteorite-list :

La'gad doesn't show up in the Meteoritical Bulletin. What institution or 
scientist examined this exact specimen or is it unofficial or self-paired?


https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63189

Cheers,
Peter

__




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Re: [meteorite-list] Lots of Gold and Meteorites on Heritage Auctions

[Robert Verish via Meteorite-list]

Thank you, Peter, for posting again (for a 2nd time) the link to the MBD entry 
for the La'gad meteorite.  
It was a simple, but polite, way to point out that all of the questions that 
have been asked about this meteorite have their answers in that entry. 

It shouldn't be necessary, but now that the dust-up has settled, I feel 
compelled to clear away any lingering misconceptions: 
there is no question, this is the La'gad meteorite 
there is no question who the classifier is, nor what is the classification 
there is no question who found this meteorite, or where it was found 
there is no question who owns this meteorite 
there is no question at all about the provenance of this meteorite 
there is no question that this is the main-mass of the La'gad meteorite. 

The stone in the auction weighs 171grams and has had a sample cut from it, 
other wise it would weigh 186.24grams. This matches the MBD entry. 
Having the stone called-out in the MBD and having it be the main-mass, and 
having the type-specimen be from that mass, is a premium for collectors. 
Having the coords recorded in the MBD and having a name (like La'gad) and not a 
number is a premium for collectors, as well. 

Taking everything into consideration, this Lunar would be a positive addition 
to any collection.  
Bob V. 

--
 
On ‎Thursday‎, ‎November‎ ‎02‎, ‎2017‎ ‎06‎:‎18‎:‎45‎ ‎PM, Peter Marmet via 
Meteorite-list  wrote: 
    
Adam Hupe wrote via Meteorite-list :
> La'gad doesn't show up in the Meteoritical Bulletin. What institution or 
> scientist examined this exact specimen or is it unofficial or self-paired?

https://www.lpi.usra.edu/meteor/metbull.php?code=63189

Cheers,
Peter

__




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[meteorite-list] Meteorite Picture of the Day

[Paul Swartz via Meteorite-list]

Today's Meteorite Picture of the Day: NWA 7229

Contributed by: Matthias Baermann

http://www.tucsonmeteorites.com/mpodmain.asp?DD=11/03/2017
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