[meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues.
Hi Elizabeth and List, Before I say anything - everyone here should thank Jason Utas for investigating and exposing this fraud on his own time with his own money. He did not have to do that, but he did so because he cares about meteorites and honor. Microprobe results do not lie. My hat is off to you sir. A seller's reputation and a man/woman's word has nothing to do with what groups they join, clubs they frequent, or mailing lists they are a member of. Reputation is something that is built up over time through deeds and through personal interaction with others. Honesty is an attribute that comes from within a person and it speaks of their character. No group, clique, club, or fraternity can bestow honesty upon a person by association To rely on a group endorsement is folly - I have known a couple of MENSA members who didn't have the common sense to come in from the rain. And I have seen a few IMCA members who I wouldn't trust any further than I can throw. Having said that, like Jason Utas said - I am thankful that the IMCA exists because it is better than no oversight at all. . As with every collectible - buyer beware, investigate your seller (beyond looking for a nifty GIF on a website), and do your homework on the subject matter. I don't have to post my entire chain of provenance for each specimen on my website because how I conduct my business and who I conduct it with is not a matter of public record for anyone to see - it is confidential between me, my sources, and my clients. That information is available to my clients, not search engine spiders. And if anyone out there suggests there is something shady about not sharing provenance information with the entire world (including non-clients who have nothing to do with a given specimen), I suggest they run their own business and be concerned with their own house of (specimen)cards. The events in question do not involve me. I purchase all of my specimens from people I trust and not based on a string of alpha-numeric characters tacked onto an email signature. My trust has never been violated (*knock on wood*), because I carefully select and vett my sources. Also, if any client or trading partner of mine ever wants to know exactly where I acquired a specimen - ask me privately and I will be happy to share that information. And yes - I checked my records and my sources carefully when this drama broke out - the few pieces of Mifflin (mostly micro crumbs) that I have offered in the past, are all bona-fide Mifflin, without exception. They were not acquired directly or indirectly from the questionable sources at the heart of this clusterphuck. If you purchased Mifflin from me, it is indeed Mifflin. If you purchased A, B, C, or D, from me, it is indeed A, B, C, or D. Best regards, MikeG PS - if the IMCA has a black list of dealers who are not to be trusted, I suggest they share that list with all other dealers, including non-IMCA members. To keep such a list secret is irresponsible and detrimental to the integrity of the meteorite market as a whole. PSS - all too often, the meteorite market is a good-ole boys (and girls) affair that involves a lot of whispered tones, nudges, and winks. This is not good for anyone, and this Mifflin affair is proof positive of that. Again, I commend Jason for going public with his findings because that is the right and honorable thing to do. --- Galactic Stone Ironworks - Meteorites Amber Website - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone News Feed - http://www.galactic-stone.com/rss/126516 Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone EOM - http://www.encyclopedia-of-meteorites.com/collection.aspx?id=1564 On 5/9/11, Elizabeth Warner ewar...@umd.edu wrote: If IMCA is supposed to be for collectors, how does being an IMCA member help with selling?? Shouldn't there be an IMSA then?? However, as I read through the IMCA website, it is more about selling/trading... I collect only, but it doesn't look like I would be able to join since I don't sell which seems odd since IMCA in it's description says it is about COLLECTING... I really have nothing against IMCA, but as a 'newbie' it is very confusing. I have been on this list since early 2010, I've bought some slices, etc from both IMCA and non-IMCA sellers (but mostly IMCA)... Anyone should be able to join IMCA, but sellers/traders should then have the specially vetted badge showing that they follow the values/standards/ideals stated by IMCA. Clear Skies! Elizabeth __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list --
[meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues.
Hi Elizabeth and List, Before I say anything - everyone here should thank Jason Utas for investigating and exposing this fraud on his own time with his own money. He did not have to do that, but he did so because he cares about meteorites and honor. Microprobe results do not lie. My hat is off to you sir. Best regards, MikeG I too wanted to thank Jason Utas for undertaking what could be a thankless task. I've read Jason's posts over the years, and have observed that he has a keen eye, and is very informed in his meteorite comments. His are one of a handful of posters to the meteorite list that I always read. I think the time and effort he spent on this benefited the whole collecting community. Where would we be if he hadn't spoken up? One thing for sure, fraudsters never stop with just one fraud. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues.
Jason Utas have put in discussion my first find of Lido Di Venezia meteorite where he have say its a meteorite from the desert. Now we are under take a analysis for confirm the age of this meteorite, and just for stop some wrong questions some persons put around internet. If he continue to stay with this idea, I start to put many question on meteorites found in USA desert, Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti i...@mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.eu Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com Da: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com A: warne...@astro.umd.edu Cc: Meteorite-List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Data: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:49:59 -0400 Oggetto: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues. Hi Elizabeth and List, Before I say anything - everyone here should thank Jason Utas for investigating and exposing this fraud on his own time with his own money. He did not have to do that, but he did so because he cares about meteorites and honor. Microprobe results do not lie. My hat is off to you sir. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues.
I too want to thank Jason for his time. That said, PLEASE... anyone who has questions about material from me or anyone else, if/when you do, please contact the person with the material. If Jason had contacted me originally instead of the IMCA, I would have supplied him with a sample to have checked out. Its important that we all work together when there are questions or concerns. Deal with the people directly rather then going to others. The source is always the best. Greg Catterton www.wanderingstarmeteorites.com IMCA member 4682 On Ebay: http://stores.shop.ebay.com/wanderingstarmeteorites On Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/WanderingStarMeteorites --- On Mon, 5/9/11, Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com wrote: From: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues. To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Cc: Michael Fowler mqfow...@mac.com Date: Monday, May 9, 2011, 11:55 AM Hi Elizabeth and List, Before I say anything - everyone here should thank Jason Utas for investigating and exposing this fraud on his own time with his own money. He did not have to do that, but he did so because he cares about meteorites and honor. Microprobe results do not lie. My hat is off to you sir. Best regards, MikeG I too wanted to thank Jason Utas for undertaking what could be a thankless task. I've read Jason's posts over the years, and have observed that he has a keen eye, and is very informed in his meteorite comments. His are one of a handful of posters to the meteorite list that I always read. I think the time and effort he spent on this benefited the whole collecting community. Where would we be if he hadn't spoken up? One thing for sure, fraudsters never stop with just one fraud. Mike Fowler Chicago ebay-starsandrocks __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues.
Hello Matteo, All, Actually, Matteo, I recall that thread well. When Mark Bostick and others questioned your find, you, instead of defending your own honesty, you publicly accused all American hunters of seeding the Southwest. . http://www.mail-archive.com/meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com/msg19749.html Your story is about as fishy as a lot of the other stuff one can find at the beach. I'd like to see some CRE age data on your stones, performed by a reputable scientist. I'd like that very much. Can anyone prove anything until then? No, but Mark pretty much said it all. Jason On Mon, May 9, 2011 at 9:17 AM, M come Meteorite i...@mcomemeteorite.it wrote: Jason Utas have put in discussion my first find of Lido Di Venezia meteorite where he have say its a meteorite from the desert. Now we are under take a analysis for confirm the age of this meteorite, and just for stop some wrong questions some persons put around internet. If he continue to stay with this idea, I start to put many question on meteorites found in USA desert, Matteo M come Meteorite Meteoriti i...@mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.it http://www.mcomemeteorite.eu Mindat Gallery http://www.mindat.org/gallery-5018.html ChinellatoPhoto Servizi Fotografici http://www.chinellatophoto.com Da: meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com A: warne...@astro.umd.edu Cc: Meteorite-List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Data: Mon, 9 May 2011 09:49:59 -0400 Oggetto: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues. Hi Elizabeth and List, Before I say anything - everyone here should thank Jason Utas for investigating and exposing this fraud on his own time with his own money. He did not have to do that, but he did so because he cares about meteorites and honor. Microprobe results do not lie. My hat is off to you sir. __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership, and honesty issues.
Hi List. Again for those Newbie Collectors and those who just want a refresher course on understanding the in and outs and do's and don'ts of collecting meteorites please check out my eBay Meteorite Info page on my Website. (Link Below) Even though this page uses eBay as a pathway to collecting meteorites it is also intended to make aware any collector of meteorites, a way to protect yourself and monies when purchasing from any Seller be it a Dealer or the Weekend type Seller This page was created from my years of experience of collecting and selling meteorites and the harsh lessons and mistakes I made along the way. There is something anyone can learn or be reminded of on this page. Since we do not live in a perfect world, mistakes do happen in Selling/Buying meteorites amongst Buyers and Sellers. There is a difference between a mistake and a deliberate fraud. The best defense is a great offence...educate yourself on who you deal with and ALWAYS ask questions if concerned about a certain specimen or Seller/Dealer. My Motto I use when buying meteorites is If there is a single doubt, I the Buyer will bow out. eBay Meteorite Info page- http://www.ctreasurescwonders.com/ebay_meteorite_info_b.html Thank you. Sincerely Don Merchant Founder-Cosmic Treasures Celestial Wonders http://www.ctreasurescwonders.com/index.html IMCA #0960 - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: warne...@astro.umd.edu Cc: Meteorite-List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 8:49 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Bogus Specimens, IMCA membership,and honesty issues. Hi Elizabeth and List, Before I say anything - everyone here should thank Jason Utas for investigating and exposing this fraud on his own time with his own money. He did not have to do that, but he did so because he cares about meteorites and honor. Microprobe results do not lie. My hat is off to you sir. A seller's reputation and a man/woman's word has nothing to do with what groups they join, clubs they frequent, or mailing lists they are a member of. Reputation is something that is built up over time through deeds and through personal interaction with others. Honesty is an attribute that comes from within a person and it speaks of their character. No group, clique, club, or fraternity can bestow honesty upon a person by association To rely on a group endorsement is folly - I have known a couple of MENSA members who didn't have the common sense to come in from the rain. And I have seen a few IMCA members who I wouldn't trust any further than I can throw. Having said that, like Jason Utas said - I am thankful that the IMCA exists because it is better than no oversight at all. . As with every collectible - buyer beware, investigate your seller (beyond looking for a nifty GIF on a website), and do your homework on the subject matter. I don't have to post my entire chain of provenance for each specimen on my website because how I conduct my business and who I conduct it with is not a matter of public record for anyone to see - it is confidential between me, my sources, and my clients. That information is available to my clients, not search engine spiders. And if anyone out there suggests there is something shady about not sharing provenance information with the entire world (including non-clients who have nothing to do with a given specimen), I suggest they run their own business and be concerned with their own house of (specimen)cards. The events in question do not involve me. I purchase all of my specimens from people I trust and not based on a string of alpha-numeric characters tacked onto an email signature. My trust has never been violated (*knock on wood*), because I carefully select and vett my sources. Also, if any client or trading partner of mine ever wants to know exactly where I acquired a specimen - ask me privately and I will be happy to share that information. And yes - I checked my records and my sources carefully when this drama broke out - the few pieces of Mifflin (mostly micro crumbs) that I have offered in the past, are all bona-fide Mifflin, without exception. They were not acquired directly or indirectly from the questionable sources at the heart of this clusterphuck. If you purchased Mifflin from me, it is indeed Mifflin. If you purchased A, B, C, or D, from me, it is indeed A, B, C, or D. Best regards, MikeG PS - if the IMCA has a black list of dealers who are not to be trusted, I suggest they share that list with all other dealers, including non-IMCA members. To keep such a list secret is irresponsible and detrimental to the integrity of the meteorite market as a whole. PSS - all too often, the meteorite market is a good-ole boys (and girls) affair that involves a lot of whispered tones, nudges, and winks. This is not good for anyone, and this Mifflin affair is proof positive of that. Again, I commend Jason for going public
