subject:"Re\: \[meteorite\-list\] Elma status"

RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status

2003-08-27 Thread Charles R. Viau

Pekka, Robert Verish and Robert Matson had some excellent comments on this, and I wanted
to comment back to each

For Pekka,

Thanks
for sharing that data. The chemical analysis looks somewhat similar to what I
have been told , but does vary. Some people I have talked to thought
that the total absence of MgO and MnO
were just as strange. Some said that these were also common
impurities in slag, especially in minerals related to Ilmenite,
and the ratios and streak did not match. Also, the physical
characteristics of the individual pieces seemed to have a very thin, even
coating of the glass and that a slag would most likely be homogenous or glass
on one side with material on the other who knows. It is real strange and I think that what
bothers the analysts the most is that they cannot explain how it was made. I think an electrical or plasma mechanism is really interesting and wonder if there is even
enough existing data on such phenomena to help them there as well. I also hope
that the resulting analysis wont require a PhD in petrology to decipher
J

For Robert M and Robert V,

I
agree that there should be a priority for those that have worked so hard and
have material in a queue to be examined. I wonder if the analysts themselves
are really kind of their own boss, and perhaps take on what they feel is easy
to disprove first, and then get wrapped up in the enigma of trying to prove
just what it is when it cannot be easily explained. And/or it was the immediacy
of the Elma event, the story content and the speed in which samples were
available to themIn any case, the NWA thing has hurt a lot of research
and NASA should never have shut the doors on domestic researchers that have
finds that have been properly documented. What they needed to do was put
someone in charge of clearing these finds from the NWA imports based on the
documentation and credibility of the finders.

Thanks,

Charles, IMCA 4351

Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status

2003-08-27 Thread Mark Ferguson

Hi List, Charles
I would think that all of this is relevant
information for future meteoritics and other physical sciences. And, my guess is
that there will be some masters or doctorial papers resulting from these small,
curious items. The fact that some little analysis has been done would be to
verify the worthiness of the items for such research. They would have to show
enough "strangeness" to warrent a research project.
This is something profs are always looking for to
further education and give students new and unusual items to fathom and pry
information from.
I too, would like to see some classifications get
done in a more timely manner, but I also support educational
endevors.
Mark

- Original Message -
From:
Charles R. Viau

To: 'Pekka Savolainen' ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'Meteorite-list
Meteoritecentral'
Sent: Tuesday, August 26, 2003 10:38
PM
Subject: RE: [meteorite-list] Elma
status

Pekka,
Robert Verish and Robert Matson
had some excellent comments on this, and I wanted to comment back to
each

For Pekka,

Thanks for sharing that data. The chemical analysis looks somewhat
similar to what I have been told , but does
vary. Some people I have talked
to thought that the total absence of MgO and MnO were just as strange. Some said
that these were also
common impurities in slag, especially in minerals related to Ilmenite, and the ratios and streak did not match. Also,
the physical characteristics of the individual pieces seemed to have a very
thin, even coating of the glass and that a slag would most likely be
homogenous or glass on one side with material on the other who knows. It is real strange and I think that
what bothers the analysts the most is that they cannot explain how it was
made. I think an electrical or
plasma mechanism is really interesting and wonder if
there is even enough existing data on such phenomena to help them there as
well. I also hope that the resulting analysis wont require a PhD in petrology
to decipher J

For Robert M and
Robert V,

I agree that there should be a priority for those that have worked so
hard and have material in a queue to be examined. I wonder if the analysts
themselves are really kind of their own boss, and perhaps take on what they
feel is easy to disprove first, and then get wrapped up in the enigma of
trying to prove just what it is when it cannot be easily explained. And/or it
was the immediacy of the Elma event, the story content and the speed in which
samples were available to themIn any case, the NWA thing has hurt a lot of
research and NASA should never have shut the doors on domestic researchers
that have finds that have been properly documented. What they needed to do was
put someone in charge of clearing these finds from the NWA imports based on
the documentation and credibility of the finders.

Thanks,
Charles, IMCA
4351

RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status and other interesting things.

2003-08-26 Thread Charles R. Viau

Robert,
Post away, but please refrain from the asphalt and tar
non-sense; it's gone way beyond that...

Adam and list,

Thanks Adam, I had fun doing them and eagerly await seeing what
a SEM scan shows of that material as well as the comments from the
examiners.

In another subject:

I just got back from a 9 day excursion in Utah exploring the
known KT exposure areas in the Wasatch Plateau, Spanish Fork and the
grand staircase through Escalante on up to Capitol Reef.  What
incredible places these are and it is somewhat overwhelming. Special
thanks to Dr Tony Ekdale (U of U) for his response to my inquiries prior
to my trip and his excellent tips.  Additional thanks to Dr. Robert L.
Eves, (SUU) for the excellent road logs and grand staircase stratigraphy
details. It is amazing what you can find on main routes, however, the
off-road trips were absolutely fascinating.
.
I have collected some great sample material (with permission, US
national parks and Utah Geological Survey, Dept of Natural Resources)
and took a few hundred 35mm and digital images. It will take some time
to compile everything in a reasonable journal and once completed, I
would like to share it with list members who would be interested. I
think the subject matter shares at least equal with meteoritics and
geology, so I will post the links to a geology list as well.  Utah is an
incredible state with a wealth of natural resources and I look forward
to spending some more time there.

Regards

Charles Viau IMCA 4351

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Robert
Verish
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2003 5:20 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma status

Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
and while probably not a meteorite by definition...
?

...if the word ELMA bothers you, delete
this message and please don't respond to the list.  
!
-

Be advised, Charles!   It isn't just Farmer that has a
problem with this subject

 and I just may have to respond to this list...,

 (but I've decided to take my post to bed with me
and sleep on it ;-)  until the morning... 

...unless another List dedicated only to meteor-wrongs

comes on-line overnight!
[Yes, I know about that other List, but that's for
members only]

Have a Good Morning All,
Bob V. 

[meteorite-list] Elma status 
Charles R. Viau [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Mon, 25 Aug 2003 01:57:33 -0400 

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Hi Sonny and List,
 
The Elma whatever objects remains a
mystery, and while
probably not a meteorite by definition, remains a very
seriously studied
material by a number of leading labs and scientists. 
There are papers due out on this material soon and we
will just have to wait to see what the professional
world has to say about it.  Many have already seen
some
preliminary chemistry results that were posted, as
well as some microprobe results. If you get into that
stuff, then you can probably see why there is so much
controversy over the origin of this material.
Equally interesting are some of the low power
microscope images. Adam Hupe had spearheaded the
effort to get this material seen by some of the
best authorities available, and I believe that if not
for his excellent scientific method, this event would
be lost forever.  Adam had requested that I re-post
some imagery I had provided previously for anyone
still
interested in this stuff. A rather low-res composite
page can be found here:
 
http://home.beld.net/~belugaband/images/ElmaComposite.jpg
 
If anyone wants some higher resolution imagery, just
ask, and I will be glad to email them to you.
 
Again the standard disclaimer: if the word ELMA
bothers you, delete
this message and please don't respond to the list.
 
Thanks,
Charles  IMCA 4351




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Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status and Tucson Room Rates

2003-08-26 Thread WAHLPERRY

Mike,

Thanks for your reply. I never meant to indicate that I thought it was a meteorite. I am interested to find out what they determined this material to be. And what better source to find out from then the meteorite list.


Charles,

Thanks for your information on the status of the Elma material. I found it to be quite interesting. 



To all members interested in the Tucson room rates please read below. These were the most reasonable we found.

Towneplace Suites By Marriott Tucson $79.00 per nite 888-254-0637. 
Best Western Inn Suites $89.99 with AAA discount. 520-297-8111

Thanks,
 Sonny

RE: [meteorite-list] Elma status

2003-08-25 Thread Charles R. Viau









Hi Sonny and List,



 The
Elma whatever objects remains a mystery, and while probably not a
meteorite by definition, remains a very seriously studied material by a number
of leading labs and scientists. There
are papers due out on this material soon and we will just have to wait to see
what the professional world has to say about it. Many have already seen some preliminary
chemistry results that were posted, as well as some microprobe results. If you
get into that stuff, then you can probably see why there is so much controversy
over the origin of this material. Equally
interesting are some of the low power microscope images. Adam Hupe had
spearheaded the effort to get this material seen by some of the best
authorities available, and I believe that if not for his excellent scientific
method, this event would be lost forever. Adam had requested that I re-post some imagery
I had provided previously for anyone still interested in this stuff. A rather low-res
composite page can be found here:



http://home.beld.net/~belugaband/images/ElmaComposite.jpg



If anyone wants some higher resolution imagery, just ask, and I
will be glad to email them to you.



Again the standard disclaimer: if the word ELMA bothers you,
delete this message and please dont respond to the list.



Thanks,

Charles
IMCA 4351

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 2:28 PM
To:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [meteorite-list] Elma
status



Hi List,

Does anyone have any new information on the Elma material/glass? 

On another subject, there are a few hotels in Tucson with reasonable rates for
next February's show. Many hotels have raised their prices substantially for
that week. We have found a few hotels for $79 per night and are currently
researching the area which would be best suited for a central location. I will
let you know when I get more information.

Thanks,


Sonny

Re: [meteorite-list] Elma status

2003-08-25 Thread Michael Farmer

Answer, Elma is a scam, a waste of time, not a
meteorite. 
All hotels rais their rates for that time of year just
for the Tucson show. 
Mike Farmer
Writing from a place where my thermometer just topped
out at the max of 125 degrees! 
Dreaming of cool Tucson right now. 

--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Hi List,
 
 Does anyone have any new information on the Elma
 material/glass? 
 
 On another subject, there are a few hotels in Tucson
 with reasonable rates 
 for next February's show. Many hotels have raised
 their prices substantially for 
 that week. We have found a few hotels for $79 per
 night and are currently 
 researching the area which would be best suited for
 a central location. I will 
 let you know when I get more information.
 
 Thanks,
 
Sonny
 


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