Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior
Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn’t look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Naveen Jain nav...@intelius.com To: 'MexicoDoug' mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior Doug, that was a long email but I will try to answer your questions with another long email. I am very new to the meteorite collection and just fell in love with them when I purchased my first set of these from Martin Horejsi. My experience with him was so pleasant that I just assumed that others in the meteorite community will be just like him. He didn’t want me to buy anything but asked me to learn about them before he would even consider selling them to me. I guess I should have known this since he is a professor by day and meteorite collector by night. After I spent 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification with him at an education event, he sent me home with the briefcase full of meteorites and told me to pay when I get home and think about it again. He told me that he will take anything and everything back if I ever decided that I have made a mistake in purchasing them. Back to Martin Altman and Stefan, it was a different experience. Martin will tell great story about each meteorite and kept suggesting to buy it. I was willing to look at these well described meteorites since I was assured of full refund if I return them within 3 weeks (their website clearly states that any customer can ask for full refund for any reasons within 30 days). They asked me to pay them full amount by wire (which should have been my first warning sign) before shipping them but they again assured me that I can return anything within 3 weeks. I contacted Martin back within hours of my receiving the meteorites to let him know that I plan to return 2 out of 9 meteorites because they didn’t look how I imagined from the picture and their description. I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I am not sure if the meteorites are fake but they are certainly very low quality for the premium price I paid for these. I have since gotten to know Greg Hupe Adam Hupe and Michael Farmer. They each have given me unconditional 30 days money back guarantee and I have really enjoyed working with them. I tried very hard to resolve the issue with Martin and Stefan but Stefan didn’t want to resolve anything and told me Martin has no authority to return anything but can only sell stuff on his behalf. I am still hoping that Meteorite community can put enough moral pressure on Stefan and Martin Altman to do the right and fair thing. Just to answer your question specifically, I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn’t look right to me and it was never touched, polished or modified in any way. Martin had one Urelite that needed classification but Stefan didn’t want to slice the piece for classification so he hammer broke a piece to send for analyses. Martin suggested that they should polish the broken surface before sending it to me along with polishing one other green Lunar meteorite that desperately needed polishing. I simply agreed what Martin said he needed to do before shipping with these meteorites. Irrespective, I am not even returning the Urelite specimen that was polished anyway. I think it was simply a greed and large sum that blinded them of their morals and obligations. Stefan and Martin Altman finally decided to sell their soul for large sum of money. IMCA board tried very hard to get them to honor their obligations but they refused which really makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff that they won’t ever be able to sell again. Warm regards, naveen Naveen Jain Founder - Moon Express, Intelius, InfoSpace Board of Trustee – X Prize Foundation, Singularity University http://www.linkedin.com/in/naveenjainintelius From: MexicoDoug [mailto:mexicod...@aim.com] Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM To: Naveen Jain Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for their illegal behavior Hi Naveen, So much for my request of an off-list info request ... so be it ... now that it is out in the open, there is absolutely nothing I see that would indicate that there is a question of authenticity, or quality however that would be defined - which is my sole worry. So I should stop right here. But I'm stubborn
Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior
Was there an unconditional Refund policy offered? That is the problem. Everything else is diversion from that question. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:19 AM, Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de wrote: Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn‚Äôt look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Naveen Jain nav...@intelius.com To: 'MexicoDoug' mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior Doug, that was a long email but I will try to answer your questions with another long email. I am very new to the meteorite collection and just fell in love with them when I purchased my first set of these from Martin Horejsi. My experience with him was so pleasant that I just assumed that others in the meteorite community will be just like him. He didn‚Äôt want me to buy anything but asked me to learn about them before he would even consider selling them to me. I guess I should have known this since he is a professor by day and meteorite collector by night. After I spent 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification with him at an education event, he sent me home with the briefcase full of meteorites and told me to pay when I get home and think about it again. He told me that he will take anything and everything back if I ever decided that I have made a mistake in purchasing them. Back to Martin Altman and Stefan, it was a different experience. Martin will tell great story about each meteorite and kept suggesting to buy it. I was willing to look at these well described meteorites since I was assured of full refund if I return them within 3 weeks (their website clearly states that any customer can ask for full refund for any reasons within 30 days). They asked me to pay them full amount by wire (which should have been my first warning sign) before shipping them but they again assured me that I can return anything within 3 weeks. I contacted Martin back within hours of my receiving the meteorites to let him know that I plan to return 2 out of 9 meteorites because they didn‚Äôt look how I imagined from the picture and their description. I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I am not sure if the meteorites are fake but they are certainly very low quality for the premium price I paid for these. I have since gotten to know Greg Hupe Adam Hupe and Michael Farmer. They each have given me unconditional 30 days money back guarantee and I have really enjoyed working with them. I tried very hard to resolve the issue with Martin and Stefan but Stefan didn‚Äôt want to resolve anything and told me Martin has no authority to return anything but can only sell stuff on his behalf. I am still hoping that Meteorite community can put enough moral pressure on Stefan and Martin Altman to do the right and fair thing. Just to answer your question specifically, I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn‚Äôt look right to me and it was never touched, polished or modified in any way. Martin had one Urelite that needed classification but Stefan didn‚Äôt want to slice the piece for classification so he hammer broke a piece to send for analyses. Martin suggested that they should polish the broken surface before sending it to me along with polishing one other green Lunar meteorite that desperately needed polishing. I simply agreed what Martin said he needed to do before shipping with these meteorites. Irrespective, I am not even returning the Urelite specimen that was polished anyway. I think it was simply a greed and large sum that blinded them of their morals and obligations. Stefan and Martin Altman finally decided to sell their soul for large sum of money. IMCA board tried very hard to get them to honor their obligations but they refused which really makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff that they won‚Äôt ever be able to sell again. Warm regards, naveen Naveen Jain Founder - Moon Express, Intelius, InfoSpace Board of Trustee ‚Äì X Prize Foundation, Singularity University http://www.linkedin.com/in/naveenjainintelius From: MexicoDoug [mailto:mexicod...@aim.com] Sent: Monday, August 01, 2011 11:12 PM To: Naveen Jain Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: Re: Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA
Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior
Mike Farmer wrote: Everything else is diversion from that question. Perhaps not necessarily diversion, but interesting in another sense. Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: meteoriteguy.com m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de Cc: nav...@intelius.com; MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior Was there an unconditional Refund policy offered? That is the problem. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:19 AM, Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de wrote: Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn‚Äôt look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Naveen Jain nav...@intelius.com To: 'MexicoDoug' mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior Doug, that was a long email but I will try to answer your questions with another long email. I am very new to the meteorite collection and just fell in love with them when I purchased my first set of these from Martin Horejsi. My experience with him was so pleasant that I just assumed that others in the meteorite community will be just like him. He didn‚Äôt want me to buy anything but asked me to learn about them before he would even consider selling them to me. I guess I should have known this since he is a professor by day and meteorite collector by night. After I spent 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification with him at an education event, he sent me home with the briefcase full of meteorites and told me to pay when I get home and think about it again. He told me that he will take anything and everything back if I ever decided that I have made a mistake in purchasing them. Back to Martin Altman and Stefan, it was a different experience. Martin will tell great story about each meteorite and kept suggesting to buy it. I was willing to look at these well described meteorites since I was assured of full refund if I return them within 3 weeks (their website clearly states that any customer can ask for full refund for any reasons within 30 days). They asked me to pay them full amount by wire (which should have been my first warning sign) before shipping them but they again assured me that I can return anything within 3 weeks. I contacted Martin back within hours of my receiving the meteorites to let him know that I plan to return 2 out of 9 meteorites because they didn‚Äôt look how I imagined from the picture and their description. I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I am not sure if the meteorites are fake but they are certainly very low quality for the premium price I paid for these. I have since gotten to know Greg Hupe Adam Hupe and Michael Farmer. They each have given me unconditional 30 days money back guarantee and I have really enjoyed working with them. I tried very hard to resolve the issue with Martin and Stefan but Stefan didn‚Äôt want to resolve anything and told me Martin has no authority to return anything but can only sell stuff on his behalf. I am still hoping that Meteorite community can put enough moral pressure on Stefan and Martin Altman to do the right and fair thing. Just to answer your question specifically, I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn‚Äôt look right to me and it was never touched, polished or modified in any way. Martin had one Urelite that needed classification but Stefan didn‚Äôt want to slice the piece for classification so he hammer broke a piece to send for analyses. Martin suggested that they should polish the broken surface before sending it to me along with polishing one other green Lunar meteorite that desperately needed polishing. I simply agreed what Martin said he needed to do before shipping with these meteorites. Irrespective, I am not even returning the Urelite specimen that was polished anyway. I think it was simply a greed and large sum that blinded them of their morals and obligations. Stefan and Martin Altman finally decided to sell their soul for large sum of money. IMCA board tried very hard to get them to honor their obligations but they refused which really makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff that they won‚Äôt ever be able to sell again. Warm regards, naveen Naveen Jain
Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior
To me it sounds like someone has, at best, been naive and not done their homework. Caveat emptor applies when you're buying a pint of milk; it certainly applies if you're ponying up a quarter million bucks. A quarter million dollars on something, mail order, for something only viewed in photographs? For real? I think that this discussion should make people think carefully about their deals - both from whom they buy, and to whom they sell. Nonetheless - as Farmer says, either they did or they didn't refuse to refund. IF they didn't (minus a reasonable handling deduction) then they're in the wrong. Mark On 2 Aug 2011, at 15:19, Matthias Bärmann wrote: Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesnâ•˙t look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior
Sounds more like buyers remorse to me. Stuart McDaniel Lawndale, NC IMCA#9052 http://www.facebook.com/Stuart.McDaniel.No.1 Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de wrote: = Mike Farmer wrote: Everything else is diversion from that question. Perhaps not necessarily diversion, but interesting in another sense. Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: meteoriteguy.com m...@meteoriteguy.com To: Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de Cc: nav...@intelius.com; MexicoDoug mexicod...@aim.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior Was there an unconditional Refund policy offered? That is the problem. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Aug 2, 2011, at 7:19 AM, Matthias Bärmann majbaerm...@web.de wrote: Mr. Jain wrote: I am very new to the meteorite collection ... 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification (...) He also wrote: I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn‚Äôt look right to me (...) makes me think that what they sold me are either fakes or very low quality stuff (...) Sounds somehow strange, no? Best, Matthias - Original Message - From: Naveen Jain nav...@intelius.com To: 'MexicoDoug' mexicod...@aim.com Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Tuesday, August 02, 2011 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Martin Stefan Kicked out of IMCA for theirillegal behavior Doug, that was a long email but I will try to answer your questions with another long email. I am very new to the meteorite collection and just fell in love with them when I purchased my first set of these from Martin Horejsi. My experience with him was so pleasant that I just assumed that others in the meteorite community will be just like him. He didn‚Äôt want me to buy anything but asked me to learn about them before he would even consider selling them to me. I guess I should have known this since he is a professor by day and meteorite collector by night. After I spent 3 days learning about meteorites and their classification with him at an education event, he sent me home with the briefcase full of meteorites and told me to pay when I get home and think about it again. He told me that he will take anything and everything back if I ever decided that I have made a mistake in purchasing them. Back to Martin Altman and Stefan, it was a different experience. Martin will tell great story about each meteorite and kept suggesting to buy it. I was willing to look at these well described meteorites since I was assured of full refund if I return them within 3 weeks (their website clearly states that any customer can ask for full refund for any reasons within 30 days). They asked me to pay them full amount by wire (which should have been my first warning sign) before shipping them but they again assured me that I can return anything within 3 weeks. I contacted Martin back within hours of my receiving the meteorites to let him know that I plan to return 2 out of 9 meteorites because they didn‚Äôt look how I imagined from the picture and their description. I also did a bit of research on them and was not thrilled with their quality. I am not sure if the meteorites are fake but they are certainly very low quality for the premium price I paid for these. I have since gotten to know Greg Hupe Adam Hupe and Michael Farmer. They each have given me unconditional 30 days money back guarantee and I have really enjoyed working with them. I tried very hard to resolve the issue with Martin and Stefan but Stefan didn‚Äôt want to resolve anything and told me Martin has no authority to return anything but can only sell stuff on his behalf. I am still hoping that Meteorite community can put enough moral pressure on Stefan and Martin Altman to do the right and fair thing. Just to answer your question specifically, I wanted to return Lunar Kreep because it just doesn‚Äôt look right to me and it was never touched, polished or modified in any way. Martin had one Urelite that needed classification but Stefan didn‚Äôt want to slice the piece for classification so he hammer broke a piece to send for analyses. Martin suggested that they should polish the broken surface before sending it to me along with polishing one other green Lunar meteorite that desperately needed polishing. I simply agreed what Martin said he needed to do before shipping with these meteorites. Irrespective, I am not even returning the Urelite specimen that was polished anyway. I think it was simply a greed and large sum that blinded them of their morals and obligations. Stefan and Martin Altman finally decided to sell their soul for large sum of money. IMCA board tried very
