Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
What a sad saga. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPhone On Nov 24, 2013, at 3:58 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: 'Meteoritical decentralization' or 'research sabotage', that is the Norwegian question ... (But is that really the question???) The conflict about the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite between Ødegaard and Sannes and the Natural History Museum (NMH) in Oslo continues and raises some basic questions: http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nordlys.no%2Fnyheter%2Farticle7000739.ece Original: http://www.nordlys.no/nyheter/article7000739.ece Martin -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite Datum: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 13:02:51 +0100 Von: karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de An: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
'Meteoritical decentralization' or 'research sabotage', that is the Norwegian question ... (But is that really the question???) The conflict about the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite between Ødegaard and Sannes and the Natural History Museum (NMH) in Oslo continues and raises some basic questions: http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nordlys.no%2Fnyheter%2Farticle7000739.ece Original: http://www.nordlys.no/nyheter/article7000739.ece Martin -Original-Nachricht- Betreff: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite Datum: Thu, 31 Oct 2013 13:02:51 +0100 Von: karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de An: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
What a pity. Europe is no longer a good place for meteorites to fall. France and Norway can't seem to get their falls worked on for years. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Oct 31, 2013, at 5:02 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
Another case of governments trying to control every aspect of everybody's lives when they do not know squat!. Freedom has never been for free and we are losing it on a daily bases. This seems to be a worldwide phenomenon. Pretty soon, you will not even be able to touch a meteorite and they will all be behind glass! Adam __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
Hi List, This is stupid. What is the harm in letting the stone be classified? Slice off 20 grams and donate it to science. It is the right thing to do. This is not a government issue as Adam said. These are private individuals hoarding the stone - which they are legally entitled to do. Just like the multi-billion dollar private corporations are entitled to hide their hoards of cash in offshore tax havens. The government shouldn't be allowed to step in and force their hand - they should volunteer to do the right thing. Sadly, greed controls many interests, private and government. It's MINE MINE MINE! Like a bunch of spoiled little kids. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/31/13, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: What a pity. Europe is no longer a good place for meteorites to fall. France and Norway can't seem to get their falls worked on for years. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Oct 31, 2013, at 5:02 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
Gosh Mike! You say this like it's something new! ;) Have a great day! Jim On 10/31/2013 7:31 AM, Galactic Stone Ironworks wrote: Hi List, This is stupid. What is the harm in letting the stone be classified? Slice off 20 grams and donate it to science. It is the right thing to do. This is not a government issue as Adam said. These are private individuals hoarding the stone - which they are legally entitled to do. Just like the multi-billion dollar private corporations are entitled to hide their hoards of cash in offshore tax havens. The government shouldn't be allowed to step in and force their hand - they should volunteer to do the right thing. Sadly, greed controls many interests, private and government. It's MINE MINE MINE! Like a bunch of spoiled little kids. Best regards, MikeG -- Jim Wooddell jim.woodd...@suddenlink.net http://pages.suddenlink.net/chondrule/ __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
As soon as the press or media becomes involved, it quickly becomes a government issue. 90% of the time, the media does more harm than good. It seems if something might have a bit of value, governments are quick to restrict access or try to control it. No press is a good thing! These people who attracted to cameras and a few moments in the lime light are ruining for the rest of us. Adam - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com Cc: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite Hi List, This is stupid. What is the harm in letting the stone be classified? Slice off 20 grams and donate it to science. It is the right thing to do. This is not a government issue as Adam said. These are private individuals hoarding the stone - which they are legally entitled to do. Just like the multi-billion dollar private corporations are entitled to hide their hoards of cash in offshore tax havens. The government shouldn't be allowed to step in and force their hand - they should volunteer to do the right thing. Sadly, greed controls many interests, private and government. It's MINE MINE MINE! Like a bunch of spoiled little kids. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/31/13, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: What a pity. Europe is no longer a good place for meteorites to fall. France and Norway can't seem to get their falls worked on for years. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Oct 31, 2013, at 5:02 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
As soon as the press or media becomes involved, it quickly becomes a government issue. 90% of the time, the media does more harm than good. It seems if something might have a bit of value, governments are quick to restrict access or try to control it. No press is a good thing! These people who attracted to cameras and a few moments in the lime light are ruining for the rest of us. Adam - Original Message - From: Galactic Stone Ironworks meteoritem...@gmail.com To: Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com Cc: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 7:31 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite Hi List, This is stupid. What is the harm in letting the stone be classified? Slice off 20 grams and donate it to science. It is the right thing to do. This is not a government issue as Adam said. These are private individuals hoarding the stone - which they are legally entitled to do. Just like the multi-billion dollar private corporations are entitled to hide their hoards of cash in offshore tax havens. The government shouldn't be allowed to step in and force their hand - they should volunteer to do the right thing. Sadly, greed controls many interests, private and government. It's MINE MINE MINE! Like a bunch of spoiled little kids. Best regards, MikeG -- - Web - http://www.galactic-stone.com Facebook - http://www.facebook.com/galacticstone Twitter - http://twitter.com/galacticstone Pinterest - http://pinterest.com/galacticstone - On 10/31/13, Michael Farmer m...@meteoriteguy.com wrote: What a pity. Europe is no longer a good place for meteorites to fall. France and Norway can't seem to get their falls worked on for years. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Oct 31, 2013, at 5:02 AM, karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de wrote: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
Martin, Thanks for posting! I think I was able to decipher the article's translation. I am left with the impression that all the Norwegian scientists are asking is that the Grefsen be classified? I did check the MetBull and this is the result: No records found for meteorites with names that contain Grefsen; No synonyms containing Grefsen were found. Seems incredibly short-sighted of the holders of the main mass not to want it classified given that all that all they will give up is 20g! Plus the value will be enhanced. Furthermore, this is also the type of bad behavior that does get attention of government officials, and so at some point they may indeed change the current finder is owner rule to finder must give all to the Kingdom of Norway. Or perhaps this is a Norwegian turf war? Perhaps an outsider could convince the owners to do the right thing and get it classified. Has anyone contacted them? Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ 2013/10/31 karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
the main problem is that Knutjurgen has always claimed to be chasing meteorites as a scientist and was able to convince the finder to sell to him to protect it from us evil dealers. Now look who is just after the money. I was attempting to acquire the mass, and if I had been successful, I assure it would be classified by now. That being said, I also had a run-in with that woman from the museum, who told me that we must turn all Moss meteorites in to the museum, though not required by law:) When I asked them if they were going to help us hunt, she said no, and left back to Oslo without spending one second traipsing through the woods like the rest of us did. No clean hands in this argument. But it is a travesty that he is unwilling to donate some of the 5 kilos for classification and display at the museum. Michael Farmer Sent from my iPad On Oct 31, 2013, at 9:02 AM, Carl Agee a...@unm.edu wrote: Martin, Thanks for posting! I think I was able to decipher the article's translation. I am left with the impression that all the Norwegian scientists are asking is that the Grefsen be classified? I did check the MetBull and this is the result: No records found for meteorites with names that contain Grefsen; No synonyms containing Grefsen were found. Seems incredibly short-sighted of the holders of the main mass not to want it classified given that all that all they will give up is 20g! Plus the value will be enhanced. Furthermore, this is also the type of bad behavior that does get attention of government officials, and so at some point they may indeed change the current finder is owner rule to finder must give all to the Kingdom of Norway. Or perhaps this is a Norwegian turf war? Perhaps an outsider could convince the owners to do the right thing and get it classified. Has anyone contacted them? Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ 2013/10/31 karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite
One problem is that the press rarely mentions collaboration between scientists, collectors and finders. The owner of the main mass may not trust their government and feel the need to protect his/her assets. I am sure a lot of U.S. finds are not being reported or shared for the same reason. Hunters are keenly aware that the 10 pound limit here is just a farce. If the U.S. government determines their is cultural or scientific value, then the finder is sure to lose their find regardless of any weight limit. Good luck to anyone who finds the first American lunar. I am sure they will be very protective because government officials and politicians tell lies most of the time to the people they serve and are never held accountable for it. Some will never get the message as I still see people openly selling meteorites found on dry lake beds here in Nevada although they are not to be used for commercial purposes. 89% of the land here is B.L.M. which covers virtually all of the dry lake beds. These days, No good deed goes unpunished so expecting somebody to freely collaborate may soon be a thing of the past. Adam - Original Message - From: Carl Agee a...@unm.edu To: karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de Cc: met-list meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Thursday, October 31, 2013 9:02 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite Martin, Thanks for posting! I think I was able to decipher the article's translation. I am left with the impression that all the Norwegian scientists are asking is that the Grefsen be classified? I did check the MetBull and this is the result: No records found for meteorites with names that contain Grefsen; No synonyms containing Grefsen were found. Seems incredibly short-sighted of the holders of the main mass not to want it classified given that all that all they will give up is 20g! Plus the value will be enhanced. Furthermore, this is also the type of bad behavior that does get attention of government officials, and so at some point they may indeed change the current finder is owner rule to finder must give all to the Kingdom of Norway. Or perhaps this is a Norwegian turf war? Perhaps an outsider could convince the owners to do the right thing and get it classified. Has anyone contacted them? Carl Agee * Carl B. Agee Director and Curator, Institute of Meteoritics Professor, Earth and Planetary Sciences MSC03 2050 University of New Mexico Albuquerque NM 87131-1126 Tel: (505) 750-7172 Fax: (505) 277-3577 Email: a...@unm.edu http://meteorite.unm.edu/people/carl_agee/ 2013/10/31 karmaka karmaka-meteori...@t-online.de: New conflict concerning the Grefsen mass of the Oslo meteorite http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=autotl=enjs=nprev=_thl=deie=UTF-8u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fkultur%2Fkritiserer-roed-odegaard-1.11325245 Martin Postfach fast voll? Jetzt kostenlos E-Mail Adresse @t-online.de sichern und endlich Platz für tausende Mails haben. http://www.t-online.de/email-kostenlos __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteorite-list-archives.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
