Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
Very well said. True words of wisdom and I couldn't agree more. Sincerely, Larry Atkins IMCA # 1941 Ebay alienrockfarm -Original Message- From: Rob McCafferty rob_mccaffe...@yahoo.com To: Jeff Kuyken i...@meteorites.com.au; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Mon, Mar 21, 2011 10:24 am Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System The nature of this list means that I am certainly preaching to the converted but I'll have my say anyway. Research and discovery for it's own sake is uniquely human. It is true that it costs a lot of money but we all know it's very little in the grand scheme. As a gross oversimplification of things, mathematicians find out how numbers play, physicists work out a practical application for the maths, engineers find something useful to do with the maths and EVENTUALLY, through the sheer endeavour of it all and the processes we go through, the whole of humanity benefits. It's a similar story is for all sciences. We shouldn't necessarily be doing things with a view to long term benefit. We should do it because we are human. The long term benefits will come by virtue of us having achieved the remarkable. Rob McC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
The nature of this list means that I am certainly preaching to the converted but I'll have my say anyway. Research and discovery for it's own sake is uniquely human. It is true that it costs a lot of money but we all know it's very little in the grand scheme. As a gross oversimplification of things, mathematicians find out how numbers play, physicists work out a practical application for the maths, engineers find something useful to do with the maths and EVENTUALLY, through the sheer endeavour of it all and the processes we go through, the whole of humanity benefits. It's a similar story is for all sciences. We shouldn't necessarily be doing things with a view to long term benefit. We should do it because we are human. The long term benefits will come by virtue of us having achieved the remarkable. Rob McC __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
Sterling A Golden Age INDEED! A number of years ago I was discussing a dear friend and mentor's career over another fine dinner and many bottles of fine wines. I lamented how exciting it must have been to be involved in Planetary Science through the 70s 80s and that I had missed it. He immediately responded that we were now in a much more exciting time and the future was more exciting still. I've come to appreciate his perspective and agree that we are in an incredible period of the exploration of our Solar System. Unfortunately one that could be in severe danger. As was reported recently, major missions are at risk of cuts and cancellation. I hope most of you on this list, regardless of your political stripe, believe that this exploration is important and should continue. The only way to make this happen is to make your opinions heard, and I don't mean on this list. Contact your Representative, Senator and the President. They are the ones putting this Golden Age at risk... -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
A successful round-about mission around Mercury by NASA would 'hopefully' PROVE a few of our bucks is worth the 'Investment'!!! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:26 AM To: Meteorite List ; Sterling K. Webb Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System Sterling A Golden Age INDEED! A number of years ago I was discussing a dear friend and mentor's career over another fine dinner and many bottles of fine wines. I lamented how exciting it must have been to be involved in Planetary Science through the 70s 80s and that I had missed it. He immediately responded that we were now in a much more exciting time and the future was more exciting still. I've come to appreciate his perspective and agree that we are in an incredible period of the exploration of our Solar System. Unfortunately one that could be in severe danger. As was reported recently, major missions are at risk of cuts and cancellation. I hope most of you on this list, regardless of your political stripe, believe that this exploration is important and should continue. The only way to make this happen is to make your opinions heard, and I don't mean on this list. Contact your Representative, Senator and the President. They are the ones putting this Golden Age at risk... -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
Nice summation, Sterling. I look forward to your posts and always come away with something fresh to think about. It's three o'clock in the morning here and I'm plagued with situational anxiety ... That's where one would rather be awake than asleep out of fear you'll miss something. It's also during these sleepless times that the more provocative questions arise. Your itemization of our off world precolonization work raises the question that we just might be the very alien life form that we apend so much time looking for. As the cartoon character said We has metn the enemy and it is us. I propose we are the dominate life form, not only in this solar system, but perhaps the galaxy and that we arrived on this planet through panspermia and are now proceeding to exploit our surroundings. I have no doubt that we are, shall we say, genetically predisposed to do this and we retain a programmed cellular memory that relentlessly advances our evolution and constantly directs us. This is certainly not an original hypothesis, but I think timely in light of your summations. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Mar 18, 2011 10:19 PM To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System As of today, we have a robot explorer in orbit around Mercury with a year's rent paid up (and hopefully the lease will be renewed if it does good). We also have a presence in orbit at the planet Venus, working there since 2006, and mappers clicking away in our own backyard, at the Moon. Mars is crawled with rovers, orbited by imagers, and being mapped to a sharper resolution that we have charted our own planet, and more of our machines are readying to join them. Out at Saturn, Cassini, a plutonium-powered robot will carry on its long investigation of that entire miniature solar system out there. And Spring is starting on Titan! We have been poking our noses into comets this year, after smacking them to see what happens, and snatching pieces and bringing them home. This summer, another of our robots will visit a large asteroid (No. 4) for the first time. In a year or so it will move on to the largest asteroid, while the most ambitious of long-haul robots dashes toward Pluto. We will be at Ceres when it gets to Pluto... and Cassini will still be working Saturn. There are only three planets we're not already at nor going to. We are all over the place. Does this qualify for a Golden Age? (The first one being the Voyager Grand Tour.) If the Aliens are watching, they probably have the Sol System in their books as one that already has a dominant species, have written it off for colonization, and are getting ready to move on. No, the Aliens are not the problem. I worry instead about the Wise Men of the Potomac who want to beach the fleet and burn it on the shore in order to save the Republic from the perils of exploration. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
Let the data and knowledge speak for itself. Voyager I II Apollo Missions Space Shuttle Missions Hubble (without which many of these missions would not have been possible or even considered) Spitzer StarDust Dawn EPOXI WISE Spirit Opportunity Curiosity (coming soon to a planet near you) Messenger Hyabusa (not ours, but worth doing) Kepler (perhaps the most important) And many many more successful missions. What else do they want? Come on... The government dropped $700+ Billion on the banks and auto manufacturers... Why can't they spare $100 Billion for the advancement and preservation of the human species? What the advancement of the space program (which has a direct influence on the advancement and survival of the human species) has achieved both intrinsically, and scientifically is immeasurable in dollars. Knowledge is priceless. It's also the most precious and valuable thing in the universe, we should cherish it, where it came from, and how we gained it. More advanced technology, more businesses, more scientists, and more money has been pumped into the economy than can be accurately measured since the beginning of the space program. A student today, who watches the Moon landing on video for the first time may be motivated to study astronomy, or become an astronaut themselves. They may join the military, become a pilot, and perhaps fly a real space craft. Humans are curious. We want to know. It's in our nature, it's what makes us human. Would there be as many people interested in science if NASA had never so much as launched a rocket? Would there be as many astronomers and scientific discoveries if Hubble never existed? The Hubble Deep Field is a perfect example. 1,500 galaxies discovered. Then as if that weren't good enough, another photo was taken, this time deeper into the blackness of space. The Hubble Ultra Deep Field. One photograph 10,000 galaxies in a section of space equal to only 1/1270th of the total area of sky. If the whole sky was photographed and the same data holds true throughout, that's 127 Billion galaxies in the visible/observable universe. And that's not to say there's not more, considering that's at the limits of current technological possibility. If we could see further, would we see more galaxies? Yeah, I'd say that's a safe bet. The economical effects may not be measurable. What is the effects of the money that's injected back into the economy by those entrepreneurs that were inspired to start a new business or create a new technology based on what they learned through the space program? If we never had the space program would we have the technological advancement we have today? Would there be as many scientists advancing human knowledge at an ever growing exponential rate? Regards, Eric On 3/19/2011 12:47 AM, Greg Hupe wrote: A successful round-about mission around Mercury by NASA would 'hopefully' PROVE a few of our bucks is worth the 'Investment'!!! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:26 AM To: Meteorite List ; Sterling K. Webb Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System Sterling A Golden Age INDEED! A number of years ago I was discussing a dear friend and mentor's career over another fine dinner and many bottles of fine wines. I lamented how exciting it must have been to be involved in Planetary Science through the 70s 80s and that I had missed it. He immediately responded that we were now in a much more exciting time and the future was more exciting still. I've come to appreciate his perspective and agree that we are in an incredible period of the exploration of our Solar System. Unfortunately one that could be in severe danger. As was reported recently, major missions are at risk of cuts and cancellation. I hope most of you on this list, regardless of your political stripe, believe that this exploration is important and should continue. The only way to make this happen is to make your opinions heard, and I don't mean on this list. Contact your Representative, Senator and the President. They are the ones putting this Golden Age at risk... -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
I fully agree with you, Richard and Sterling. It is definitely a Golden Age we live in, which is even more exciting than any period of space exploration before. Just think about all we have learned in the last ten years...how much our horizons have widened... To me it is incomprehensible how anyone can seriously want to put these remarkable missions, triumphs of human ingenuity, and future ones in danger. It can only be based on lack of information, ignorance or wrong priorities. Just think about the (future) triumphs of Messenger, New Horizons, Dawn, Cassini, the Mars rovers etc. ... Next to this have a look at the ever increasing US federal military budget: $ 685.100.000.000 !! in 2010 (by far the largest military budget in the world) http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/55/U.S._Defense_Spending_Trends.png Can you even imagine this amount of money? 1 in 5 dollars of the US Federal spending is only for this. Next to this the NASA budget has decreased (in % of Fed budget) almost continously between 1991 and 2008. In 2010 it was $ 18.724 billion. That is a mere 0,5 % of the Federal budget in 2010. I believe we can do without new weapons and new wars but we can't do without dreams and experiences which stimulate the BEST in us: our curiosity and even philosophical thoughts about what we are and where we are. Weapons are invented and produced to kill. It is as simple as that. How creative is that? Does this stimulate the best in us as a species? You are right, Richard. The space missions must to be talked about more than before because they have an incredible potential to stimulate the dreams of millions of people in the world. Talk to your grandchildren and children (the decision makers of the future) about the missions and show them the breathtaking images of the planets and moons. I believe no one can remain disinterested when being faced with the beathtaking beauty they reveal. Go to schools and tell the students for example about meteorites and where they come from. Richard is right, talk to your local politicians and representatives and stimulate their interest and their fascination. Maybe no one has ever done this ... Lamenting about what is going on does not change anything. Be active, talk to people and share the passion and awe that you feel. Be passionate and people will listen...and hopefully change. Martin -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: Richard Kowalski damoc...@yahoo.com Gesendet: 19.03.2011 08:26:13 An: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com, Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System Sterling A Golden Age INDEED! A number of years ago I was discussing a dear friend and mentor's career over another fine dinner and many bottles of fine wines. I lamented how exciting it must have been to be involved in Planetary Science through the 70s 80s and that I had missed it. He immediately responded that we were now in a much more exciting time and the future was more exciting still. I've come to appreciate his perspective and agree that we are in an incredible period of the exploration of our Solar System. Unfortunately one that could be in severe danger. As was reported recently, major missions are at risk of cuts and cancellation. I hope most of you on this list, regardless of your political stripe, believe that this exploration is important and should continue. The only way to make this happen is to make your opinions heard, and I don't mean on this list. Contact your Representative, Senator and the President. They are the ones putting this Golden Age at risk... -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
Count, I don't know what we'd do with our Sterling. He is our Dos equis man The most Interesting man on the list; and the world. Enjoy his link below; http://www.dosequisguy.com/ As stated in quote #5 He is the reason Aliens come to visit Earth. Thanks Sterling. Carl -- Carl or Debbie Esparza Meteoritemax Count Deiro countde...@earthlink.net wrote: Nice summation, Sterling. I look forward to your posts and always come away with something fresh to think about. It's three o'clock in the morning here and I'm plagued with situational anxiety ... That's where one would rather be awake than asleep out of fear you'll miss something. It's also during these sleepless times that the more provocative questions arise. Your itemization of our off world precolonization work raises the question that we just might be the very alien life form that we apend so much time looking for. As the cartoon character said We has metn the enemy and it is us. I propose we are the dominate life form, not only in this solar system, but perhaps the galaxy and that we arrived on this planet through panspermia and are now proceeding to exploit our surroundings. I have no doubt that we are, shall we say, genetically predisposed to do this and we retain a programmed cellular memory that relentlessly advances our evolution and constantly directs us. This is certainly not an original hypothesis, but I think timely in light of your summations. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -Original Message- From: Sterling K. Webb sterling_k_w...@sbcglobal.net Sent: Mar 18, 2011 10:19 PM To: Meteorite List meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Subject: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System As of today, we have a robot explorer in orbit around Mercury with a year's rent paid up (and hopefully the lease will be renewed if it does good). We also have a presence in orbit at the planet Venus, working there since 2006, and mappers clicking away in our own backyard, at the Moon. Mars is crawled with rovers, orbited by imagers, and being mapped to a sharper resolution that we have charted our own planet, and more of our machines are readying to join them. Out at Saturn, Cassini, a plutonium-powered robot will carry on its long investigation of that entire miniature solar system out there. And Spring is starting on Titan! We have been poking our noses into comets this year, after smacking them to see what happens, and snatching pieces and bringing them home. This summer, another of our robots will visit a large asteroid (No. 4) for the first time. In a year or so it will move on to the largest asteroid, while the most ambitious of long-haul robots dashes toward Pluto. We will be at Ceres when it gets to Pluto... and Cassini will still be working Saturn. There are only three planets we're not already at nor going to. We are all over the place. Does this qualify for a Golden Age? (The first one being the Voyager Grand Tour.) If the Aliens are watching, they probably have the Sol System in their books as one that already has a dominant species, have written it off for colonization, and are getting ready to move on. No, the Aliens are not the problem. I worry instead about the Wise Men of the Potomac who want to beach the fleet and burn it on the shore in order to save the Republic from the perils of exploration. Sterling K. Webb __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System
Would there be as many people interested in science if NASA had never so much as launched a rocket? A very thought provoking question! Cheers, Jeff - Original Message - From: Meteorites USA e...@meteoritesusa.com To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 9:26 PM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System Let the data and knowledge speak for itself. Voyager I II Apollo Missions Space Shuttle Missions Hubble (without which many of these missions would not have been possible or even considered) Spitzer StarDust Dawn EPOXI WISE Spirit Opportunity Curiosity (coming soon to a planet near you) Messenger Hyabusa (not ours, but worth doing) Kepler (perhaps the most important) And many many more successful missions. What else do they want? Come on... The government dropped $700+ Billion on the banks and auto manufacturers... Why can't they spare $100 Billion for the advancement and preservation of the human species? What the advancement of the space program (which has a direct influence on the advancement and survival of the human species) has achieved both intrinsically, and scientifically is immeasurable in dollars. Knowledge is priceless. It's also the most precious and valuable thing in the universe, we should cherish it, where it came from, and how we gained it. More advanced technology, more businesses, more scientists, and more money has been pumped into the economy than can be accurately measured since the beginning of the space program. A student today, who watches the Moon landing on video for the first time may be motivated to study astronomy, or become an astronaut themselves. They may join the military, become a pilot, and perhaps fly a real space craft. Humans are curious. We want to know. It's in our nature, it's what makes us human. Would there be as many people interested in science if NASA had never so much as launched a rocket? Would there be as many astronomers and scientific discoveries if Hubble never existed? The Hubble Deep Field is a perfect example. 1,500 galaxies discovered. Then as if that weren't good enough, another photo was taken, this time deeper into the blackness of space. The Hubble Ultra Deep Field. One photograph 10,000 galaxies in a section of space equal to only 1/1270th of the total area of sky. If the whole sky was photographed and the same data holds true throughout, that's 127 Billion galaxies in the visible/observable universe. And that's not to say there's not more, considering that's at the limits of current technological possibility. If we could see further, would we see more galaxies? Yeah, I'd say that's a safe bet. The economical effects may not be measurable. What is the effects of the money that's injected back into the economy by those entrepreneurs that were inspired to start a new business or create a new technology based on what they learned through the space program? If we never had the space program would we have the technological advancement we have today? Would there be as many scientists advancing human knowledge at an ever growing exponential rate? Regards, Eric On 3/19/2011 12:47 AM, Greg Hupe wrote: A successful round-about mission around Mercury by NASA would 'hopefully' PROVE a few of our bucks is worth the 'Investment'!!! Best Regards, Greg Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection gmh...@centurylink.net www.LunarRock.com IMCA 3163 -Original Message- From: Richard Kowalski Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:26 AM To: Meteorite List ; Sterling K. Webb Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The Human Presence in the Solar System Sterling A Golden Age INDEED! A number of years ago I was discussing a dear friend and mentor's career over another fine dinner and many bottles of fine wines. I lamented how exciting it must have been to be involved in Planetary Science through the 70s 80s and that I had missed it. He immediately responded that we were now in a much more exciting time and the future was more exciting still. I've come to appreciate his perspective and agree that we are in an incredible period of the exploration of our Solar System. Unfortunately one that could be in severe danger. As was reported recently, major missions are at risk of cuts and cancellation. I hope most of you on this list, regardless of your political stripe, believe that this exploration is important and should continue. The only way to make this happen is to make your opinions heard, and I don't mean on this list. Contact your Representative, Senator and the President. They are the ones putting this Golden Age at risk... -- Richard Kowalski Full Moon Photography IMCA #1081 __ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
