On 2012-07-27 15:41, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 05:36:38PM +1000, David Diggles wrote:
The calomel phenomenon is fascinating!
I was calomeled.
Those who have been calomeled have done the following:
1. lazily google: openbsd tuning (or similar)
2. click on:
Indeed, Calomel has lots of reputation, that's why it ranks so high.
Reputation and popularity are 2 different things :)
google only count popularity
There is must be a reason why this kind of sites exists.
because there are huge amount of readers.
Ppl whom take care of www.openbsd.org documentation/FAQ maybe have to take a
look and pinpoint what is missing?
nothing is wrong. Just most admins are of calomel.org style and doesn't
mind
Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The royal we? Are those mutual favors a
currency I can trade for a cash? Will the OpenBSD community branding me special get me more work?
pussy? the INS fast-lane? Nope. *IF* I decide to put in the work, mylord, it'll be on my own
terms so
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
WHAT?!
ROTFL!
mdoc format, JUST LIKE HTML, is not 1:1 representation of display, but a
text intermixed with commands/tags that define what is what and how.
You just
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote:
yep. looks like I need to come up to current then. 4.7 is definitely a little
out of date. I might have to set it up in a vmware session on the linux box
and see if I can pipe the console to an internal serial port and read
On Fri, 27 Jul 2012, David Coppa wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:12 PM, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote:
yep. looks like I need to come up to current then. 4.7 is definitely a
little
out of date. I might have to set it up in a vmware session on the linux box
and see if I can pipe
On 2012-07-26, Eric Oyen eric.o...@gmail.com wrote:
one last item, the machine I am using to testbed this doesn't have a dedicated
serial port (they no longer include those on commodity hardware anymore) so
having the output routed there is out.
-current can provide a full system console on a
On 07/26/12 03:04, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
Everytime you follow a non official documentation, you waste your time
and the developer's time, we're not cranky about calomel only, we're
cranky about people following unofficial documentation, remember, our
FAQ and manpages are accurate 99.99% of
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:31PM +0200, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
That said, the attitude you're displaying does no one any favors: nobody'ss
here to make you feel special; either you're willing to put in the work
or you aren't.
Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The royal
Ted Unangst [t...@tedunangst.com] wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
/reference/, they're not meant to solve high-level problems. The FAQs are
really are no FAQs at all but a gigantic snowball with floppy install
instructions crucially leaving out 5 1/4 and 8
On 26 July 2012 18:14, Matthew Dempsky matt...@dempsky.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:23 AM, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote:
+.Pa http://www.openbsd.org/faq .
mdoc(7) says Lk should be used for hyperlinks, though we don't
actually do that in any of our manuals currently. I think it
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 6:19 AM, ropers rop...@gmail.com wrote:
Why is Pa only found in the MACRO REFERENCE section of mdoc(7) and not
in the MACRO OVERVIEW? Is it deprecated?
It's under the Semantic markup for command line utilities subsection.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 05:36:38PM +1000, David Diggles wrote:
The calomel phenomenon is fascinating!
I was calomeled.
Those who have been calomeled have done the following:
1. lazily google: openbsd tuning (or similar)
2. click on: Network Tuning and Performance Guide (OpenBSD) -
On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
Calomel is ranked 2 on google
There is must be a reason why this kind of sites exists.
Ppl whom take care of www.openbsd.org documentation/FAQ maybe have to take a
look and pinpoint what is missing?
For some reason ppl refer to
Calomel is ranked 2 on google because it has been linked several hundred
times from this list. Google doesn't know about good/bad opinions or
flamewars. Google only cares about the reputation of the origin of the
link.
I don't think that's true; google link:calomel.org -site:calomel.org to find
On Fri, Jul 27, 2012 at 22:51, mxb wrote:
On Jul 27, 2012, at 8:41 PM, Juan Francisco Cantero Hurtado wrote:
Calomel is ranked 2 on google
There is must be a reason why this kind of sites exists.
Ppl whom take care of www.openbsd.org documentation/FAQ maybe have to take a
look and
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012 07:47:46 +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
Okay I feel that a flame war might be afoot but to put another log on the
fire; is Calomel not trustworthy in the read and do alike not copying
straight from kind of way? I have used the guides for instance about the
PF and DNS. And that
and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS
and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
No.
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it
Good. Start from www.openbsd.org/faq and continue
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 06:55:54AM +0200, Shaka NKofo wrote:
[blabla]
*facepalm*
--
Gilles Chehade
https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
To my defense I use the FAQ and MAN first then I used Calomel for example
configs of more obscure things :).
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 9:09 AM, Gilles Chehade gil...@poolp.org wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 06:55:54AM +0200, Shaka NKofo wrote:
[blabla]
*facepalm*
--
Gilles Chehade
The calomel phenomenon is fascinating!
I was calomeled.
Those who have been calomeled have done the following:
1. lazily google: openbsd tuning (or similar)
2. click on: Network Tuning and Performance Guide (OpenBSD) - Calomel
(currently ranked 2 on google)
3. lazy and in a hurry to get it
Did I just read, that ?
To my defense, I read nicely written FAQ and MAN first, then I
used broken and wrong documentation for broken examples of more
obscure things
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:26:03AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
To my defense I use the FAQ and MAN first then I used Calomel
Apparently calomel is full of bad and/or outdated advice for openbsd,
especially the sysctl tuning stuff.
Your best advice is to follow the official FAQ's on openbsd.org, and
read openbsd man pages to learn your techniques.
Maybe there needs to be a calomel faq on openbsd.org.
Here's a better
as you, I will
not take it private because you're publically dumbing people.
And also a comment on calomel; yes I use it but I'm not stupid enough to
either copy straight from it OR use the sysctl... The only guides I have
used for reference is https://calomel.org/pf_carp.html where I needed
lan. Now after understanding its
basic inner workings I wish to put it to heavy and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch
I feel this usually comes from folks with Linux background.
You see, in BSD world, specially in OpenBSD, there is good and high
quality documentation, which the developers put a lot of effort in
providing it.
I know, since I did it too in the past, that when you're using Linux,
you're basically
I know, since I did it too in the past, that when you're using Linux,
you're basically in the dark, so you go to google, and you try your
luck.
when i was still using linux it was this manual is out of date, use
texinfo. texinfo was out of date too, but wikipedia style documentation
was
Here's a better idea I'm putting out there to see how fast it gets shot down:
openbsd-wiki.org, with a rule that whoever gets a question answered on misc
has to add an entry with the cleaned reply. It'd do wonders for misc's
signal/noise because lazy fucks, retards and trolls would think
I first read the documentation, the do everything properly and after that
i f..k it all up because some trendy webpages says i should.
On Thu, 26 Jul 2012, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
To my defense I use the FAQ and MAN first then I used Calomel for example
configs of more obscure things :).
On
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
since the devices are just adding up too fast...
what a problem with DNS? It is rather easy.
I could help you on priv if you like, if you will clean up
In some ways, it is almost fortunate the calomel meme exists to keep reminding
newcomers, as annoying as repetition is. It's the nature of things.
I fell for it in the past. Others will in the future.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:01:41AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
I first read the
Here's a better idea I'm putting out there to see how fast it gets shot
down: openbsd-wiki.org, with a rule that whoever gets a question answered on
misc has to add an entry with the cleaned reply. It'd do wonders for misc's
signal/noise because lazy fucks, retards and trolls would think
On 07/26/12 03:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
Apparently calomel is full of bad and/or outdated advice for openbsd,
especially the sysctl tuning stuff.
Your best advice is to follow the official FAQ's on openbsd.org, and
read openbsd man pages to learn your techniques.
Maybe there needs to be a
Everytime you follow a non official documentation, you waste your time
and the developer's time, we're not cranky about calomel only, we're
cranky about people following unofficial documentation, remember, our
FAQ and manpages are accurate 99.99% of the time and they are pretty
well written and
On 07/26/12 03:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
Apparently calomel is full of bad and/or outdated advice for openbsd,
especially the sysctl tuning stuff.
Your best advice is to follow the official FAQ's on openbsd.org, and
read openbsd man pages to learn your techniques.
Maybe there needs to be
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Wojciech Puchar
woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote:
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
since the devices are just adding up too fast...
what a problem
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Paulm pa...@tetrardus.net wrote:
Dynamic content proper search would also put an end to just wade through
marc.info fuck-offs and self-righteous RTFD when one has to egrep -Rli
serial /usr/share/man, say. Man/info pages are the ultimate /reference/,
they're not
I couldn't have put it better. Plus Private Lessons on DNS on condition
that the student is not under Big Brothers purview .. smiles
On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 06:22 -0430, Andres Perera wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:33 AM, Wojciech Puchar
woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote:
I'm used to
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 07:47:46AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
Perhaps a resource of howtos/FAQ can be created since OpenBSD does not
change to much between releases? Or is that not interesting either?
Maybe you should, _at least_, read the www page, _at least_ to know that
a FAQ already
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:56:44AM -0300, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 07:47:46AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
Perhaps a resource of howtos/FAQ can be created since OpenBSD does not
change to much between releases? Or is that not interesting either?
Maybe you should,
Peter Laufenberg open...@laufenberg.ch wrote:
Here's a better idea I'm putting out there to see how fast it gets shot
down: openbsd-wiki.org, with a rule that whoever gets a question
answered on misc has to add an entry with the cleaned reply.
Go ahead, make it so.
I'm not being sarcastic.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 3:52 PM, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:56:44AM -0300, Daniel Bolgheroni wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 07:47:46AM +0200, Joakim Dellrud wrote:
Perhaps a resource of howtos/FAQ can be created since OpenBSD does not
change to much
On 2012-07-26, Andres Perera andre...@zoho.com wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 4:30 AM, Paulm pa...@tetrardus.net wrote:
Dynamic content proper search would also put an end to just wade through
marc.info fuck-offs and self-righteous RTFD when one has to egrep -Rli
serial /usr/share/man, say.
The site can look butt-ugly (or wikimedia-bland) but needs a
semi-official stamp of approval instead of blinking red THIS IS NOT
AFFILIATED WITH OPENBSD.ORG!!!
Set up the site, make it work. Approval will come.
Other way around. I got better things to do than start a project obsd
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 04:12:50PM +0200, David Coppa wrote:
Please,
One sentence, one line...
Ok, here we go:
Index: src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8,v
retrieving revision 1.136
A list member pointed out I could shorten the diff further by not including
the index.html part of the URL.
Third time's the charm?
Index: src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8
===
RCS file: /cvs/src/share/man/man8/afterboot.8,v
retrieving
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 8:23 AM, John Long codeb...@inbox.lv wrote:
+.Pa http://www.openbsd.org/faq .
mdoc(7) says Lk should be used for hyperlinks, though we don't
actually do that in any of our manuals currently. I think it would be
nice to start doing so though so that HTML and PDF formatted
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
/reference/, they're not meant to solve high-level problems. The FAQs are
really are no FAQs at all but a gigantic snowball with floppy install
instructions crucially leaving out 5 1/4 and 8 media.
That's because 5 and 8 floppy drives
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 04:43:10PM +0200, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
The site can look butt-ugly (or wikimedia-bland) but needs a
semi-official stamp of approval instead of blinking red THIS IS NOT
AFFILIATED WITH OPENBSD.ORG!!!
Set up the site, make it work. Approval will come.
Other
well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages. also, I may
have to change how a man page would be laid out because my screen reader (both
in linux and OS X) seem to have trouble handling the change in content when I
navigate through a man page in a terminal session.
There was a
On Thu, 2012-07-26 at 10:54 -0700, Eric Oyen wrote:
well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages.
The pages themselves are marked-up text; just use a text editor. Note
that OpenBSD doesn't use groff anymore to render them. Look at
mandoc(1)
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:54:25AM -0700, Eric Oyen wrote:
well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages. also, I may
What's your favorite text editor?
have to change how a man page would be laid out because my screen reader (both
in linux and OS X) seem to have trouble
Weldon Goree wrote:
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
--
Jack Woehr # We commonly say we have no time when,
Box 51, Golden CO 80402 # of course, we have all that there is.
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 10:54, Eric Oyen wrote:
well, I am wondering what packages I can use to edit man pages. also, I may
have to change how a man page would be laid out because my screen reader
(both
in linux and OS X) seem to have trouble handling the change in content when I
navigate
Hi Jack,
Jack Woehr wrote on Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:46:24PM -0600:
is there a WYSIWIG editor for mdoc format?
No, and there cannot be.
The purpose of a WYSIWIG editor is to achieve a particular
visual impression (most WYSIWIG editors suck even at that task,
but that's beside the point).
The
the web page server is for displaying them in a way my screen reader can
handle. didn't you pay attention in my posting? I mentioned being blind.
as for editing man pages using a text editor, frankly, that is a bit tedious
as there is a lot of text attributes and other invisible features embedded
Ingo Schwarze wrote:
The mdoc(7) language is quite easy.
Fascinating exposition ... I guessed the nature of the language from the example. A generation better than groff
format-based concept.
As with any language, maturing your style will take a bit longer.
Well, not sure how much more my
Marc Espie wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:46:24PM -0600, Jack Woehr wrote:
Weldon Goree wrote:
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
vi
!Gmandoc|more
u
funny guy :)
--
Jack Woehr # We
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 12:46:24PM -0600, Jack Woehr wrote:
Weldon Goree wrote:
mdoc(7) (the suggested format)
Ah, the yin and yang of formats and tools ... is there a WYSIWIG editor for
mdoc format?
vi
!Gmandoc|more
u
well, I can give that a whirl. you should hear how those text attributes sound
in my screen reader. its much the same as trying to pick out an object at
range among a bunch of moving scenery.
the man piped through more scheme is the biggest part of the problem,
especially on remote sessions.
As
well,
its pretty good in a remote session. I tried installing an X screen reader
from ports and was met with a number of unsatisfied dependencies. that was
several months back and I am not sure that things have changed that much. ORCA
is about the only screen reader that will work reliably, but
yep. looks like I need to come up to current then. 4.7 is definitely a little
out of date. I might have to set it up in a vmware session on the linux box
and see if I can pipe the console to an internal serial port and read it with
a common comm application. the X display would be a bit harder to
That said, the attitude you're displaying does no one any favors: nobody'ss
here to make you feel special; either you're willing to put in the work
or you aren't.
Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The royal we? Are those
mutual favors a currency I can trade for a cash? Will the
Ted Unangst [t...@tedunangst.com] wrote:
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 09:53, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
/reference/, they're not meant to solve high-level problems. The FAQs are
really are no FAQs at all but a gigantic snowball with floppy install
instructions crucially leaving out 5 1/4 and 8
On Thu, Jul 26, 2012 at 11:24:31PM +0200, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
That said, the attitude you're displaying does no one any favors: nobody'ss
here to make you feel special; either you're willing to put in the work
or you aren't.
Who the fuck do you think you are to use that tone? The royal
On 07/26/12 03:04, Peter Laufenberg wrote:
Everytime you follow a non official documentation, you waste your time
and the developer's time, we're not cranky about calomel only, we're
cranky about people following unofficial documentation, remember, our
FAQ and manpages are accurate 99.99% of the
is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
since the devices are just
it to heavy and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like
it to heavy and good use.
All I'm asking is that is it advisable to use some of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean
of the tutorials
found on https://calomel.org/ as a sort of map to setup basic services
like DNS and pf?
I'm used to learning tech from scratch and mastering then using it but
my work load is punishing and I would like to clean up DNS on my lan
since the devices are just adding up too fast
Darrin Chandler dwchand...@stilyagin.com writes:
This is true of any sites with OpenBSD help. Sometimes I've found some
info on these sites that's saved me much time, but I'd never take the
info without thinking it through myself, check against the man pages,
FAQ, etc.
One common problem is
On 2009-05-07, FRLinux frli...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu, May 7, 2009 at 4:07 AM, James Peltier james_a_pelt...@yahoo.ca
wrote:
There was mention of calomel.org recently. This is a great resource,
however,
it needs to be a bit more updated. For example the following page advises
*not* to use
On Thu, May 07, 2009 at 12:03:23PM +, Stuart Henderson wrote:
There are some useful things on the site, but please, use with a big
pinch of salt.
This is true of any sites with OpenBSD help. Sometimes I've found some
info on these sites that's saved me much time, but I'd never take the
info
Thanks for the heads up.
I agree that with all of the work done in the newest MP kernel the
page is outdated. There should be time this month to test the newest
release and post the results.
Network Speed and Performance Guide (OpenBSD)
https://calomel.org/network_performance.html
As Darren
There was mention of calomel.org recently. This is a great resource, however,
it needs to be a bit more updated. For example the following page advises
*not* to use the GENERIC.MP kernel, however, considering how much work has
gone into the MP work and fact that MP will become default I think
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