Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 2016-03-05 Sat 21:56 PM |, Stuart Henderson wrote: > > Besides qmail, this is easy to setup with Postfix (my preferred option > for these) Default: $ postconf -d recipient_delimiter recipient_delimiter = Set this to your favourite character in /etc/postfix/main.cf: $ postconf recipient_delimiter recipient_delimiter = + Cheers. -- It's hard to drive at the limit, but it's harder to know where the limits are. -- Stirling Moss
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
2016-03-06 11:21 GMT+01:00 Stuart Henderson : > On 2016/03/06 09:07, ludovic coues wrote: >> 2016-03-05 22:56 GMT+01:00 Stuart Henderson : >> > >> > For OpenSMTPD I haven't tried it but I suspect you may be able to do >> > this with a virtual map using a python script via table-python (in >> > ooensmtpd-extras in ports) but there isn't much documentation for >> > this. Though actually a quick search for "opensmtpd table-python" >> > throws up https://gist.github.com/unconfigured/e72a18f3dd12f7c4fc5c >> > which looks pretty much like what you need there. >> > >> >> OpenSMTPD in base 5.8 support sqlite table which might be enough. > > The mapping would need to be something like 'foo-...@example.com' -> 'foo' > or 'foo-...@example.com' -> 'example', I don't see how to do this with the > string handling functions available in sqlite. (And in 5.9+ the sqlite > table is in opensmtpd-extras as well). > I might be missing some corner-case but "instr" look like a good fit. sqlite > create table user (username text, uid int, gid int, home text); sqlite > insert into user values ("foo", 1000, 10, "/home/foo"); sqlite > insert into user values ("bar", 1001, 10, "/home/bar"); sqlite > select * from user where instr("foo-...@exemple.com", username) = 1; foo I assume it would work roughly the same for alias. In the end, it's a matter of personal preference, even more if support for sqlite is dropped from base. -- Cordialement, Coues Ludovic +336 148 743 42
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 2016/03/06 09:07, ludovic coues wrote: > 2016-03-05 22:56 GMT+01:00 Stuart Henderson : > > > > For OpenSMTPD I haven't tried it but I suspect you may be able to do > > this with a virtual map using a python script via table-python (in > > ooensmtpd-extras in ports) but there isn't much documentation for > > this. Though actually a quick search for "opensmtpd table-python" > > throws up https://gist.github.com/unconfigured/e72a18f3dd12f7c4fc5c > > which looks pretty much like what you need there. > > > > OpenSMTPD in base 5.8 support sqlite table which might be enough. The mapping would need to be something like 'foo-...@example.com' -> 'foo' or 'foo-...@example.com' -> 'example', I don't see how to do this with the string handling functions available in sqlite. (And in 5.9+ the sqlite table is in opensmtpd-extras as well).
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
2016-03-05 22:56 GMT+01:00 Stuart Henderson : > > For OpenSMTPD I haven't tried it but I suspect you may be able to do > this with a virtual map using a python script via table-python (in > ooensmtpd-extras in ports) but there isn't much documentation for > this. Though actually a quick search for "opensmtpd table-python" > throws up https://gist.github.com/unconfigured/e72a18f3dd12f7c4fc5c > which looks pretty much like what you need there. > OpenSMTPD in base 5.8 support sqlite table which might be enough. -- Cordialement, Coues Ludovic +336 148 743 42
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 2016-03-02, Claus Niesen wrote: > I used to run my own at home mailserver (openbsd + qmail) . Since I no > longer have a static IP, I switched to an email provider that supports > minus addressing but operates in the dark ages, especially in regards to > security updates. Needless to say I need a better host. I'd rather not > host my own mailserver but so far haven't been able to find an > alternative. Unless someone comes up with a recommendation I think you'll need to one way or another, either a real machine or a cheap vps (vm based colo). You could just use this to redirect to another single email address or "convert" - to +, but you may run into problems with spam filtering especially if you're feeding it to a large provider, or you could run the mail storage yourself (imap/etc). Besides qmail, this is easy to setup with Postfix (my preferred option for these) and Exim, it should also be possible with sendmail but you may have to grovel around in the cf parts, I think the m4 files only deal with +. For OpenSMTPD I haven't tried it but I suspect you may be able to do this with a virtual map using a python script via table-python (in ooensmtpd-extras in ports) but there isn't much documentation for this. Though actually a quick search for "opensmtpd table-python" throws up https://gist.github.com/unconfigured/e72a18f3dd12f7c4fc5c which looks pretty much like what you need there.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 2016-03-03, Constantine A. Murenin wrote: > On 3 March 2016 at 14:39, Andy Bradford wrote: >> Thus said Gilles Chehade on Thu, 03 Mar 2016 10:14:48 +0100: >> >>> Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? >> >> The MTA will decide who will get foo-bar@. > > How? A /dev/mind RPC? :-) By reading the configuration. >>> This just doesn't happen with + because: >> >> It also doesn't happen with an MTA that can figure these things out. > > So, how would it figure it out? > > And what happens if a "conflicting" user gets created after a mail was > sent, but before it was delivered? "This behaviour is undefined"? Obviously if you're using this type of addressing you simply don't add a conflicting email address.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
Thu, 3 Mar 2016 14:55:58 -0600 "Constantine A. Murenin" > On 2 March 2016 at 14:19, Claus Niesen wrote: > > Sorry for the off topic question but I'm hoping that maybe some of your > > know of or work for an email hosting provider Cut here. > > I used to run my own at home mailserver (openbsd + qmail) . Time to resume this practice with OpenBSD and OpenSMTPD again, while transitioning out of the currently "inadequate" host. Or pay up and don't bring the ads with the queries. > > security updates. Needless to say I need a better host. I'd rather not > > host my own mailserver but so far haven't been able to find an > > alternative. Here is the major discrepancy between your expectations and reality. You don't honesty think somebody's balance sheet is less important than your security for junk mail hosting (as the host sees your values). > > Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Feel free to contact me off > > list. This is where ads go --> to you off list. A gentle nudge: look for a hosting forum and search OpenBSD there. > > Specific requirements: > > - allows usage of custom domain > > - reliable and secure And I want a truthful historic record of every event for 25K yrs back. > So, how much are you willing to pay for this service? Looks like a salesman on the line. > Static IP costs on a residential connection usually start at 5 USD/mo > in the US. Very useful information. Go figure about resource block lists right after you suck up to your asynchronous puny ISP policies and virtually unlimited peering compared to practically non existent international. > At this price, nowadays you might as well get a whole virtual or even > a dedicated bare metal server to play with, from Hetzner, Online, > OVH/Kimsufi et al (I maintain a list at http://dedi.su/ ), and run an > actual qmail on it, or even OpenSMTPD, as you see fit. Give us a commercial break warning ahead next time. It's good to know you've shopped around for your host, hosting beginners love that info. > Otherwise, what is it that we are missing from your requirements that > makes this a worthwhile discussion for misc@openbsd.org? There are two types of advertisers, those who deal with their own poo and those who play with other people's. Real men don't need no shortening service, their sites are preserved and kept long after they're gone. Applies to mail archives too. Now we'd appreciate some useful information on OpenSMTPD for restoring peace in our disturbed sense of being thrown at marketing sticky stuff.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
Thus said Gilles Chehade on Thu, 03 Mar 2016 22:48:57 +0100: > > I don't see this as necessarily an argument for or against - vs + > > > > too bad, it means my friend jean-pierre will not be able to be hosted > by you if you already host my other friend jean ;-) This is true, obviously. If one user has jean and jean-* then clearly jean-pierre@ is already taken. That doesn't mean I cannt host your friend jean-pierre, it just means he cannot have jean-pierre@, maybe he will settle for jean_pierre@ or jean+pierre@, or any other combination that suits him and allowed by the hosting software/MTA. Given the predominence of @gmail.com email addresses, clearly this is not a problem for the majority of people in the email world. There can only ever be one jean-pie...@gmail.com, right? Which means if your friend jean-pierre has jean-pie...@gmail.com, then necessarily my friend jean-pierre cannot also have jean-pie...@gmail.com. Bummer. Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400056d916f3
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
Thus said "Constantine A. Murenin" on Thu, 03 Mar 2016 15:09:46 -0600: > > The MTA will decide who will get foo-bar@. > > How? A /dev/mind RPC? :-) Because the MTA is configured to handle it? :-) > And what happens if a "conflicting" user gets created after a mail was > sent, but before it was delivered? "This behaviour is undefined"? I'm not exactly sure what you mean by conflicting... The MTA, again, will already be configured to deal with addresses and mapping them to users. And the behavior is not undefined. If an email address exists and the MTA knows about the email address it will get delivered if the username configured to receive it exists. If the MTA knows about it, but the OS doesn't know about it, the MTA will queue it up until the local user who is supposed to receive it is created. If the username exists and the MTA doesn't have an email address for it, the email will bounce. My MTA can handle both + and - for email addresses and can map email addresses to local users in any fashion that the OS supports. For example, let's assume I have a local user named foo and I have assigned an email address foo@ and I have configured that email address to accept wildcard extensions (e.g. foo-*@ gets delivered to username test). Then, I create a local user named foo-bar. Clearly now, I cannot give the local username foo-bar an email address of foo-bar@ because, well, that is already superceded by test's wildcard claim on the address. Assuming that I had to give the user that username, what email address could I give him? Anything I want, as long as it is not part of foo-*@ I have the following mapping which permits username foo to receive email for foo@, foo-*@, and foo+*@, and another mapping which permits username foo-bar to receive email for foo_bar@ and foo_bar-*@: =foo:foo:1004:1004:/home/foo:-:: +foo-:foo:1004:1004:/home/foo:-:: +foo+:foo:1004:1004:/home/foo:-:: =foo_bar:foo-bar:1003:1003:/home/foo-bar:-:: +foo_bar:foo-bar:1003:1003:/home/foo-bar:-:: Is this sensible to do? Who knows, but the point is, just because - exists in usernames doesn't necessarily mean that it shouldn't be used in email extensions. Must there be a one-to-one mapping between email addresses and local usernames? In many systems it is typical for the email address to not even remotely resemble a local username. Thanks, Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400056d912b2
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 02:02:22PM -0600, Claus wrote: > On 3/3/2016 3:14 AM, Gilles Chehade wrote: > >On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 01:54:16AM +0100, ropers wrote: > >Won't question your need however this + vs - thing has come up often and > >I'd like to stress out that even though both - and + are valid, use of - > >introduces ambiguity given that - is allowed in usernames: > > > > $ doas useradd -m foo > > $ doas useradd -m foo-bar > > > >Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? > > > >This just doesn't happen with + because: > > > >$ doas useradd -m bar > >$ doas useradd -m bar+baz > >useradd: `bar+baz' is not a valid login name > >$ > > Seriously, do email hosting providers create local accounts for their users? > I don't have a clue but I highly doubt it due the need to host multiple > domains. > My comment wasn't focused on email providers but on email in general ;-) The default setup for all MTA's that I know of is to map user part of an email address to a system username. That's been the case since the first day I got interested in hosting (pre 2k) and is still the case today. It was the case for my .edu when I was a student & it was the case for many of the places I worked for since then. > The ambiguity is there unless the domain owner doesn't allow dashes in > account names, and I can afford to make that rule for my domain. Of course > that doesn't help me if no one supports that. :( > Indeed, but the fact no one supports that should also hint you that this is going against ... what everyone else does, so it's quite expected you are going to be in a painful journey ;) -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 01:39:54PM -0700, Andy Bradford wrote: > Thus said Gilles Chehade on Thu, 03 Mar 2016 10:14:48 +0100: > > > Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? > > The MTA will decide who will get foo-bar@. > How ? > > This just doesn't happen with + because: > > It also doesn't happen with an MTA that can figure these things out. > How ? > I don't see this as necessarily an argument for or against - vs + > too bad, it means my friend jean-pierre will not be able to be hosted by you if you already host my other friend jean ;-) -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 2 March 2016 at 14:19, Claus Niesen wrote: > Sorry for the off topic question but I'm hoping that maybe some of your > know of or work for an email hosting provider that provides minus/hyphen > ("-") addressing with custom domain. All I can find are provider that > offer plus addressing, which makes it hard for a smooth transition since > I'm using minus addressing extensively. > > I used to run my own at home mailserver (openbsd + qmail) . Since I no > longer have a static IP, I switched to an email provider that supports > minus addressing but operates in the dark ages, especially in regards to > security updates. Needless to say I need a better host. I'd rather not > host my own mailserver but so far haven't been able to find an > alternative. > > Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Feel free to contact me off > list. > Thanks, > Claus > > Specific requirements: > - allows usage of custom domain > - allows multiple email accounts > - qmail style '-' addressing > - some kind of spam filtering (gray-listing & bayes filter) > - alias > - imap > - reliable and secure So, how much are you willing to pay for this service? Static IP costs on a residential connection usually start at 5 USD/mo in the US. Presumably, that's also how much you'd be willing to pay for a "reliable and secure" email service with a custom domain and qmail-style addressing. (That's not even considering any extra you'd have to pay for a provider specifically targeting the niche of serving it OpenBSD-style.) At this price, nowadays you might as well get a whole virtual or even a dedicated bare metal server to play with, from Hetzner, Online, OVH/Kimsufi et al (I maintain a list at http://dedi.su/ ), and run an actual qmail on it, or even OpenSMTPD, as you see fit. (OpenBSD works great on most of these hosts, even if it's not specifically advertised as supported.) Otherwise, what is it that we are missing from your requirements that makes this a worthwhile discussion for misc@openbsd.org? C.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 3 March 2016 at 14:39, Andy Bradford wrote: > Thus said Gilles Chehade on Thu, 03 Mar 2016 10:14:48 +0100: > >> Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? > > The MTA will decide who will get foo-bar@. How? A /dev/mind RPC? :-) >> This just doesn't happen with + because: > > It also doesn't happen with an MTA that can figure these things out. So, how would it figure it out? And what happens if a "conflicting" user gets created after a mail was sent, but before it was delivered? "This behaviour is undefined"? C.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
Thus said Gilles Chehade on Thu, 03 Mar 2016 10:14:48 +0100: > Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? The MTA will decide who will get foo-bar@. > This just doesn't happen with + because: It also doesn't happen with an MTA that can figure these things out. I don't see this as necessarily an argument for or against - vs + Andy -- TAI64 timestamp: 400056d8a13e
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 3/3/2016 3:14 AM, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 01:54:16AM +0100, ropers wrote: Won't question your need however this + vs - thing has come up often and I'd like to stress out that even though both - and + are valid, use of - introduces ambiguity given that - is allowed in usernames: $ doas useradd -m foo $ doas useradd -m foo-bar Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? This just doesn't happen with + because: $ doas useradd -m bar $ doas useradd -m bar+baz useradd: `bar+baz' is not a valid login name $ Seriously, do email hosting providers create local accounts for their users? I don't have a clue but I highly doubt it due the need to host multiple domains. The ambiguity is there unless the domain owner doesn't allow dashes in account names, and I can afford to make that rule for my domain. Of course that doesn't help me if no one supports that. :( Claus
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 3 March 2016 at 10:14, Gilles Chehade wrote: > > - is allowed in usernames: > > $ doas useradd -m foo > $ doas useradd -m foo-bar > > Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? > > This just doesn't happen with + because: > > $ doas useradd -m bar > $ doas useradd -m bar+baz > useradd: `bar+baz' is not a valid login name > Oh. Thank you. :) I did not know that.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On Thu, Mar 03, 2016 at 01:54:16AM +0100, ropers wrote: > On 2 March 2016 at 23:59, Jason Barbier wrote: > > > [You're] probably going to have to suck it up at some point and use + > > [delimiters] like most people have moved to doing since according to the > > RFC - is a valid email address char. > > > > So is +. > http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3696#section-3 > - is not any more legal than +, just maybe more common, and you're still > more likely to encounter non-RFC compliant implementations that don't deal > with plus correctly, especially in web form email "verification" scripts -- > but many of those suck monkey balls anyway. > Won't question your need however this + vs - thing has come up often and I'd like to stress out that even though both - and + are valid, use of - introduces ambiguity given that - is allowed in usernames: $ doas useradd -m foo $ doas useradd -m foo-bar Who should get mail for foo-bar@ ? This just doesn't happen with + because: $ doas useradd -m bar $ doas useradd -m bar+baz useradd: `bar+baz' is not a valid login name $ Now as far as your issue is concerned, what you could do if you can't go without - is to take an account anywhere that supports + then just setup a simple mail forwarder at a vps host to rewrite - to +, this way you'll be able to transition without being limited in hosting choices. just my opinion ;) -- Gilles Chehade https://www.poolp.org @poolpOrg
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On 2 March 2016 at 23:59, Jason Barbier wrote: > [You're] probably going to have to suck it up at some point and use + > [delimiters] like most people have moved to doing since according to the > RFC - is a valid email address char. > So is +. http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3696#section-3 - is not any more legal than +, just maybe more common, and you're still more likely to encounter non-RFC compliant implementations that don't deal with plus correctly, especially in web form email "verification" scripts -- but many of those suck monkey balls anyway.
Re: OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
On Wed, Mar 2, 2016, at 12:19 PM, Claus Niesen wrote: > Sorry for the off topic question but I'm hoping that maybe some of your > know of or work for an email hosting provider that provides minus/hyphen > ("-") addressing with custom domain. All I can find are provider that > offer plus addressing, which makes it hard for a smooth transition since > I'm using minus addressing extensively. > > I used to run my own at home mailserver (openbsd + qmail) . Since I no > longer have a static IP, I switched to an email provider that supports > minus addressing but operates in the dark ages, especially in regards to > security updates. Needless to say I need a better host. I'd rather not > host my own mailserver but so far haven't been able to find an > alternative. > > Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Feel free to contact me off > list. > Thanks, > Claus > > Specific requirements: > - allows usage of custom domain > - allows multiple email accounts > - qmail style '-' addressing > - some kind of spam filtering (gray-listing & bayes filter) > - alias > - imap > - reliable and secure > Your probably going to have to suck it up at some point and use + delmiters like most people have moved to doing since according to the RFC - is a valid email address char. But with that rant out of the way honestly if you are not opposed to running your own server DigitalOcean is cheap, reliable, and with some work you can have openbsd in any config you see fit. -- Jason Barbier | E: jab...@serversave.us GPG Key-ID: B5F75B47(http://kusuriya.devio.us/pubkey.asc)
OT: Looking for email host with qmail like minus-addressing for custom domain
Sorry for the off topic question but I'm hoping that maybe some of your know of or work for an email hosting provider that provides minus/hyphen ("-") addressing with custom domain. All I can find are provider that offer plus addressing, which makes it hard for a smooth transition since I'm using minus addressing extensively. I used to run my own at home mailserver (openbsd + qmail) . Since I no longer have a static IP, I switched to an email provider that supports minus addressing but operates in the dark ages, especially in regards to security updates. Needless to say I need a better host. I'd rather not host my own mailserver but so far haven't been able to find an alternative. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Feel free to contact me off list. Thanks, Claus Specific requirements: - allows usage of custom domain - allows multiple email accounts - qmail style '-' addressing - some kind of spam filtering (gray-listing & bayes filter) - alias - imap - reliable and secure