Re: Optimising OpenBSD
* Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-04-09 01:26]: Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) so do we. that's why it is that way :) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I can recommend mountain bike rides and beer with friends. in that order, please. -- Henning Brauer, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED] BS Web Services, http://bsws.de Full-Service ISP - Secure Hosting, Mail and DNS Services Dedicated Servers, Rootservers, Application Hosting - Hamburg Amsterdam
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Fri, Apr 11, 2008 at 01:14:49PM +0200, Henning Brauer wrote: * Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] [2008-04-09 01:26]: Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) so do we. that's why it is that way :) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I can recommend mountain bike rides and beer with friends. in that order, please. Or find an itch with OpenBSD and scratch it. Doug.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
http://www.absoluteopenbsd.com -- Ed Ahlsen-Girard Senior Network Engineer TYBRIN Corporation tybrin.com 850-337-2830 850-337-2885 (fax) This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are the property of TYBRIN Corporation, are private, and are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to which this email is addressed. If you are not one of the named recipient(s) or otherwise have reason to believe that you have received this message in error, please delete this message immediately. Any other use, retention, dissemination, forwarding, printing, or copying of this e-mail is strictly prohibited. -Original Message- From: Douglas A. Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 6:58 PM To: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Optimising OpenBSD On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 07:55:36AM -0500, Ed Ahlsen-Girard wrote: From: Douglas A. Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want a book, although its a bit old there's Absolute OpenBSD by nostarch press. A nice book, but it's out of print. It is available as a PDF though. I purchased a copy last year. I'd like a pdf version; I'll google for it unless you have the URL handy. Doug.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
I would like to recomend Secure Architectures With OpenBSD. It`s a great book. Cheers, Fabio On Wed, Apr 9, 2008 at 8:58 PM, Douglas A. Tutty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 07:55:36AM -0500, Ed Ahlsen-Girard wrote: From: Douglas A. Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want a book, although its a bit old there's Absolute OpenBSD by nostarch press. A nice book, but it's out of print. It is available as a PDF though. I purchased a copy last year. I'd like a pdf version; I'll google for it unless you have the URL handy. Doug.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Matthew Smith schreef: I'm only really concerned about the base system as I always build all my LAMPP components, Postfix, etc., by hand so that migrating box-to-box can go without [a hitch|many hitches]. OpenBSD optimalisation is rather about NOT touching the kernel - unless you really have a specific need for it. Run 'GENERIC'. That has worked remarkably well for my webservers for years now. If you are used to LAMP setups the only thing you might need to look at is the MySQL configuration. That might need it's own login class (busy servers) but I believe more recent packages started mentioning this. Otherwise search the archives or have a look at openbsdsupport [1]. Both have the info on how to do it. Assuming you are new(ish) to OpenBSD you might run into some other well known pitfalls: OBSD has the httpd chrooted [2] by default and php's mail capabilities (which call /bin/sh) can therefor not work out of the box [3]. Also building by hand isn't needed / advisable - use packages [4]. If that doesn't work check the ports [4] system (which all should feel very familiar coming from Gentoo) HTH Matt [1] http://www.openbsdsupport.org/mysql.htm#Limits [2] http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq10.html#httpdchroot [3] http://archives.neohapsis.com/archives/openbsd/2007-01/0802.html [4] http://www.openbsd.org/ports.html
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
-Original Message- From: Douglas A. Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 10:26 PM To: misc@openbsd.org Cc: Gilles Chehade; Matthew Smith Subject: Re: Optimising OpenBSD On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 11:27:03PM +, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 08:49:38AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth Ted Unangst at 2008-04-09 08:38... Nothing beats an 8 year old article for the latest info. OpenBSD now comes fully optimized out of the box. Yes, I did notice the age, but that was about all that Google had for me. Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I would take that spare time to make sure I read all the pages of the faq, found some area I could contribute to, and find my way to paypal to subscribe for a monthly donation ;-) Don't forget to read all the man pages. Unlike Linux, they are all complete (if they're not, it's a bug not a normal occurance). If you want a book, although its a bit old there's Absolute OpenBSD by nostarch press. Doug. A nice book, but it's out of print. It is available as a PDF though. Ed
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 08:21:52AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote: Hi Folks As part of my move from GNU/Linux to OpenBSD on my server, I just want to clarify what I need to do to ensure that I have performance optimised. I am coming from Gentoo Linux, where optimisation is mostly about using the appropriate compiler flags. I can't resist this... http://web.archive.org/web/20061004200708/http://www.funroll-loops.org/ If I were to use the appropriate base distribution (x86_64), configure my kernel correctly (as per the likes of http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2000/10/31/OpenBSD.html) and set the appropriate compiler flags, is this all I need to do? --omg-speed I'm only really concerned about the base system as I always build all my LAMPP components, Postfix, etc., by hand so that migrating box-to-box can go without [a hitch|many hitches]. LAMP and performance in the same email is pretty darn funny.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Tuesday 08 April 2008 18:07, you wrote: As part of my move from GNU/Linux to OpenBSD on my server, I just want to clarify what I need to do to ensure that I have performance optimised. I imagine, if you run the standard OpenBSD system on your servers for some time, you'll be satisfied. Exactly. When i first started using OpenBSD i would always compile my own kernel and change a lot of settings to make it more Linux-like. As i learned the system, i've stopped doing all that. All my OpenBSD machines run GENERIC and don't have many changes in /etc, nor many GNU packages or other bloat installed. The base system works out of the box very well, and the sooner you realize that, the happier you'll be because you'll have less maintenance to do, less to remember, and installations and upgrades will go much faster. Of course, if you want to run some service that isn't part of the base system, you'll have to add it and configure it. But for quite a few services (such as firewall, DNS, DHCP, NTP, even web), a pure OpenBSD install is usually sufficient and all you need to do is turn on the appropriate daemon by adding a line in /etc/rc.conf.local. Dan RamaleyDial Center 118, Drake University Network Programmer/Analyst 2407 Carpenter Ave +1 515 271-4540Des Moines IA 50311 USA
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? 'man afterboot' for ideas. :-D -Bryan
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth Rod Whitworth at 2008-04-09 08:04... Matthew, you are pretty new here so I'll be kind. Read http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why For this, I apologise. I am currently in the situation that I don't know where to look for what. I might try writing a OpenBSD for Linux escapees somewhere down the track, because that's what I really need. Also Search The Fine Archives I now discover that they are under a different domain - which is why the site search wasn't pulling up much. I must pull out my copy of 'Google Hacks' and see if there is a way that an aggregated site search can be done that pulls in the list archives as well. the Marc archives have really been a savior for me http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-miscr=1w=2 they have a long history of openbsd list archives and the searches are blazing fast. HTH Aaron The GENERIC kernel has been compiled with all the right flags. The article you cite was never good advice and furthermore it is going on 8 years old. It's going to take me a while to get used to having a kernel that I don't HAVE to touch - not that I'm complaining! Don't do that either without a better reason. Postfix, for example, comes as a package in OpenBSD. Two versions (stable and snapshot, both good enough to use in critical service) and several flavours. Look at http://openports.se/mail/postfix/snapshot for a clue. Postfix I can probably take from a package. However, this server will need to duplicate the environment on my two Internet-facing Linodes (Linux virtual servers), plus my laptop, which is my main development platform. Apache and MySQL have to be hand-builds - my Apache installation is configured for a very specific environment (and all my apps would break if chrooted) and I have applications that rely on specific Apache modules. MySQL - well - I use 5.1 and that's not a production release, but has features that I need in my development environment. I'll probably get yelled at now, having entered a security conscious|paranoid community, but it would take MONTHS to change my environment and re-code everything to work otherwise. It is also a bit of a non-issue as regards this server - it's on an intranet with one user that logs in - me. From the land down under: Australia. Do we look umop apisdn from up over? No, but when I first came here, I was fascinated by the way water goes down the plughole the other way round. Thanks all for your replies and patience. Cheers M
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 07:55:36AM -0500, Ed Ahlsen-Girard wrote: From: Douglas A. Tutty [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] If you want a book, although its a bit old there's Absolute OpenBSD by nostarch press. A nice book, but it's out of print. It is available as a PDF though. I purchased a copy last year. I'd like a pdf version; I'll google for it unless you have the URL handy. Doug.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On 4/8/08, Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I were to use the appropriate base distribution (x86_64), configure my kernel correctly (as per the likes of http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2000/10/31/OpenBSD.html) and set the appropriate compiler flags, is this all I need to do? Nothing beats an 8 year old article for the latest info. OpenBSD now comes fully optimized out of the box.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 6:51 PM, Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Folks As part of my move from GNU/Linux to OpenBSD on my server, I just want to clarify what I need to do to ensure that I have performance optimised. I am coming from Gentoo Linux, where optimisation is mostly about using the appropriate compiler flags. What one does in Gentoo does not apply to OpenBSD. If I were to use the appropriate base distribution (x86_64), configure my kernel correctly (as per the likes of http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2000/10/31/OpenBSD.html) and set the appropriate compiler flags, is this all I need to do? Linux mannerisms don't apply either - you're better off with the stock kernel. I'm only really concerned about the base system as I always build all my LAMPP components, Postfix, etc., by hand so that migrating box-to-box can go without [a hitch|many hitches]. At times, PpenBSD doesn't seem as snappy as Linux.. (more so with desktop stuff) but then again, Linux *never* seems as stable. So take your pick. I imagine, if you run the standard OpenBSD system on your servers for some time, you'll be satisfied. Cheers, ~Jason
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Quoth Ted Unangst at 2008-04-09 08:38... Nothing beats an 8 year old article for the latest info. OpenBSD now comes fully optimized out of the box. Yes, I did notice the age, but that was about all that Google had for me. Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I've never before had so much of my hardware recognised without extra effort; it's even recognising my Stallion PCI serial cards - now I just need to figure what I have to do to get them configured. Cheers M PS - @Jason - it's unlikely that OpenBSD will seem any less zippy than the current server - going from an Athlon XP2000 CPU to an Intel Core 2 Duo and from 1Gb RAM to 4Gb RAM should make a little difference... -- Matthew Smith Smiffytech - Technology Consulting Web Application Development Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
2008/4/9, Matthew Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]: As part of my move from GNU/Linux to OpenBSD on my server, I just want to clarify what I need to do to ensure that I have performance optimised. I am http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why Best Martin
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 08:49:38AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth Ted Unangst at 2008-04-09 08:38... Nothing beats an 8 year old article for the latest info. OpenBSD now comes fully optimized out of the box. Yes, I did notice the age, but that was about all that Google had for me. Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I would take that spare time to make sure I read all the pages of the faq, found some area I could contribute to, and find my way to paypal to subscribe for a monthly donation ;-) Gilles -- Gilles Chehade http://www.poolp.org/
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
The standard recommendation for openbsd is to install the stock kernel. For the applications you've described, the standard recommendation is also to use packages or ports. Think of OpenBSD as an appliance, and you're good to go. As a FYI - OpenBSD concentrates on correctness over optimization, and for most people, the defaults suffice. If you are one of those who need to eke out that last extra connection for your lamp, be prepared to roll your sleeves up and work on the source code yourself. Otherwise, you will be told - use defaults. -- http://www.glumbert.com/media/shift http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk This officer's men seem to follow him merely out of idle curiosity. -- Sandhurst officer cadet evaluation. Securing an environment of Windows platforms from abuse - external or internal - is akin to trying to install sprinklers in a fireworks factory where smoking on the job is permitted. -- Gene Spafford learn french: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1G-3laJJP0feature=related
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Wed, 09 Apr 2008 08:21:52 +0930, Matthew Smith wrote: Hi Folks As part of my move from GNU/Linux to OpenBSD on my server, I just want to clarify what I need to do to ensure that I have performance optimised. I am coming from Gentoo Linux, where optimisation is mostly about using the appropriate compiler flags. If I were to use the appropriate base distribution (x86_64), configure my kernel correctly (as per the likes of http://www.onlamp.com/pub/a/bsd/2000/10/31/OpenBSD.html) and set the appropriate compiler flags, is this all I need to do? Matthew, you are pretty new here so I'll be kind. Read http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why Also Search The Fine Archives and you will see that questions like yours just raise lots of dust and heat and encourage trolls to run to your aid whilst wasting the time of developers who read this list as they try to stamp out the grass fires. OpenBSD is NOT another Linux and certainly not a Gentoo. I come from being an IBM Linux instructor and so I've been there, done that. You don't need to customise OpenBSD until you have (a) found something that demands it, and (b) you know it well enough not to need to ask questions about the process. The GENERIC kernel has been compiled with all the right flags. The article you cite was never good advice and furthermore it is going on 8 years old. I'm only really concerned about the base system as I always build all my LAMPP components, Postfix, etc., by hand so that migrating box-to-box can go without [a hitch|many hitches]. Don't do that either without a better reason. Postfix, for example, comes as a package in OpenBSD. Two versions (stable and snapshot, both good enough to use in critical service) and several flavours. Look at http://openports.se/mail/postfix/snapshot for a clue. In general, try what OpenBSD provides already compiled and optimised. Apache is in base (Apache2 is a package (called apache-httpd) if you MUST have 2, but remember that it is not anywhere near as secure as the heavily patched one that installs by default) and Mysql is a package as is php. Enjoy the luxury of not needing all the recompiles you are used to and make some money in the time you save ;-) Don't work your ass off trying to prove me wrong either, it's worth neither the time nor the angst. NB: On-list replies are fine. I am subscribed. Off-list (if you really must) to the reply-to address as only the list server has access to this mailbox. Good luck. R/ Rod/ From the land down under: Australia. Do we look umop apisdn from up over?
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 08:49:38AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth Ted Unangst at 2008-04-09 08:38... Nothing beats an 8 year old article for the latest info. OpenBSD now comes fully optimized out of the box. Yes, I did notice the age, but that was about all that Google had for me. Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I've never before had so much of my hardware recognised without extra effort; it's even recognising my Stallion PCI serial cards - now I just need to figure what I have to do to get them configured. Write new code, instead of fiddling up with old one ?
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Quoth Rod Whitworth at 2008-04-09 08:04... Matthew, you are pretty new here so I'll be kind. Read http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why For this, I apologise. I am currently in the situation that I don't know where to look for what. I might try writing a OpenBSD for Linux escapees somewhere down the track, because that's what I really need. Also Search The Fine Archives I now discover that they are under a different domain - which is why the site search wasn't pulling up much. I must pull out my copy of 'Google Hacks' and see if there is a way that an aggregated site search can be done that pulls in the list archives as well. The GENERIC kernel has been compiled with all the right flags. The article you cite was never good advice and furthermore it is going on 8 years old. It's going to take me a while to get used to having a kernel that I don't HAVE to touch - not that I'm complaining! Don't do that either without a better reason. Postfix, for example, comes as a package in OpenBSD. Two versions (stable and snapshot, both good enough to use in critical service) and several flavours. Look at http://openports.se/mail/postfix/snapshot for a clue. Postfix I can probably take from a package. However, this server will need to duplicate the environment on my two Internet-facing Linodes (Linux virtual servers), plus my laptop, which is my main development platform. Apache and MySQL have to be hand-builds - my Apache installation is configured for a very specific environment (and all my apps would break if chrooted) and I have applications that rely on specific Apache modules. MySQL - well - I use 5.1 and that's not a production release, but has features that I need in my development environment. I'll probably get yelled at now, having entered a security conscious|paranoid community, but it would take MONTHS to change my environment and re-code everything to work otherwise. It is also a bit of a non-issue as regards this server - it's on an intranet with one user that logs in - me. From the land down under: Australia. Do we look umop apisdn from up over? No, but when I first came here, I was fascinated by the way water goes down the plughole the other way round. Thanks all for your replies and patience. Cheers M -- Matthew Smith Smiffytech - Technology Consulting Web Application Development Business: http://www.smiffytech.com/ Personal: http://www.smiffysplace.com/ LinkedIn: http://www.linkedin.com/in/smiffy
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Apache and MySQL have to be hand-builds - my Apache installation is configured for a very specific environment (and all my apps would break if chrooted) and I have applications that rely on specific Apache modules. You dont have to run the bundled apache chrooted, you can change it, very easily. _ Win 100s of Virgin Experience days with BigSnapSearch.com http://www.bigsnapsearch.com
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth Rod Whitworth at 2008-04-09 08:04... Matthew, you are pretty new here so I'll be kind. Read http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why For this, I apologise. I am currently in the situation that I don't know where to look for what. I might try writing a OpenBSD for Linux escapees somewhere down the track, because that's what I really need. http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq9.html :) Don't re-invent, improve. :) (It used to be called migrating from Linux or something like that, but there are a lot of other non-Linux Unixes that people might be coming from). Also Search The Fine Archives I now discover that they are under a different domain - which is why the site search wasn't pulling up much. I must pull out my copy of 'Google Hacks' and see if there is a way that an aggregated site search can be done that pulls in the list archives as well. there's a bunch of archives out there, each has their own search functions, and that's really a good thing. Very often, when looking for something and one search engine strikes out, another will pop up the answer for you. As wonderful as Google is, it isn't the Final Word on knowledge retrieval. Often, when the best answer is don't, search engines do a much better job of coming up with more long- winded and incorrect answers. The GENERIC kernel has been compiled with all the right flags. The article you cite was never good advice and furthermore it is going on 8 years old. It's going to take me a while to get used to having a kernel that I don't HAVE to touch - not that I'm complaining! wait until you get used to working on your projects rather than tweaking your OS... It will raise your expectations on everything. Nick.
Re: Optimising OpenBSD
On Tue, Apr 08, 2008 at 11:27:03PM +, Gilles Chehade wrote: On Wed, Apr 09, 2008 at 08:49:38AM +0930, Matthew Smith wrote: Quoth Ted Unangst at 2008-04-09 08:38... Nothing beats an 8 year old article for the latest info. OpenBSD now comes fully optimized out of the box. Yes, I did notice the age, but that was about all that Google had for me. Optimised out of the box sounds good to me - not having to do anything is the way I like to work ;-) You do realise that this means that the installation time of the base system is now going to be down to about 15 minutes (from over a day) - what am I going to do with all that spare time? I would take that spare time to make sure I read all the pages of the faq, found some area I could contribute to, and find my way to paypal to subscribe for a monthly donation ;-) Don't forget to read all the man pages. Unlike Linux, they are all complete (if they're not, it's a bug not a normal occurance). If you want a book, although its a bit old there's Absolute OpenBSD by nostarch press. Doug.
