Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 2014-06-11, Fred open...@crowsons.com wrote: On 06/11/14 15:16, Carsten Kunze wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Rodrigo Mosconi open...@mosconi.mat.br An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:05 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS What is the output from echo $?, after you run the getent ... command? $ getent hosts `hostname` $ echo $? 0 `hostname` should be replaced with a host...eg: Actually I meant exactly what I typed - the relevant thing here is whether there is a delay looking up the local hostname.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If this does not return something, your configuration is broken. period. this one little thing, that so many people ignore, slows down everything.. even if you have dns properly configured. Set the hosts file on your machine properly. You will be surprised at how much faster it boots, and everything else runs. This is true on all forms of unix. RG On 06/12/2014 04:16 PM, Stuart Henderson wrote: getent hosts `hostname` Mit freundlichen Grüßen Robert Garrett Senior System Engineer Technical Projects Solutions - -- InterNetX GmbH Maximilianstr. 6 93047 Regensburg Germany Tel. +49 941 59559-480 Fax +49 941 59559-245 www.internetx.com www.facebook.com/InterNetX www.twitter.com/InterNetX Geschäftsführer/CEO: Thomas Mörz Amtsgericht Regensburg, HRB 7142 Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJTmcsAAAoJEMrvovfl62c8IxQIAJ1otdNkvrklKnCccQwX7DPw KSJG2UZxX5pU/QwzpJUlNiTxeYXJ8pAuszz8+HC8u/S7Oj2Z0hZ8XykXP+YALg/b 6T/U2Bj8sqf/aV50PKEuXy2TGle8SYikqeBi3NMFsLrZ2bmx237TMWSPl+AWuHBl h/uAwfYhBqvtFj9gUS9x8fZhyCm6wpelsofuHX/wL5AIfWnvZxkUV2cnp6aI10pN 84+pIfxllyBbR51+OwiBi9tVGgW4gzMq3uxskyepSO8XOEW3l+d9GRxkuuAIZ1cv Z9mrmsJhWcwuJ84JIgoNRvGQ0MM1u/JkX1pH+lh72L57Ghg8c6nXhexbOf3m9b8= =0BHs -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: InterNetX - Robert Garrett robert.garr...@internetx.com An: misc@openbsd.org Datum: 12.06.2014 17:45 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If this does not return something, your configuration is broken. period. this one little thing, that so many people ignore, slows down everything.. even if you have dns properly configured. Set the hosts file on your machine properly. You will be surprised at how much faster it boots, and everything else runs. This is true on all forms of unix. /etc/hosts is: # cat /etc/hosts # $OpenBSD: hosts,v 1.12 2009/03/10 00:42:13 deraadt Exp $ # # Host Database # # RFC 1918 specifies that these networks are internal. # 10.0.0.0 10.255.255.255 # 172.16.0.0172.31.255.255 # 192.168.0.0 192.168.255.255 # 127.0.0.1 localhost ::1 localhost What would you expect there? (DNS resolution in general is fast on my system.) --Carsten
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: InterNetX - Robert Garrett robert.garr...@internetx.com An: misc@openbsd.org Datum: 12.06.2014 17:45 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 If this does not return something, your configuration is broken. period. this one little thing, that so many people ignore, slows down everything.. even if you have dns properly configured. Set the hosts file on your machine properly. You will be surprised at how much faster it boots, and everything else runs. This is true on all forms of unix. My mistake--to send the mails I had been connected to internet. The name in /etc/myname is only vaild in the local net. When I change the network connection the output of getent hosts `hostname` is of the form IP address hostname.domainname So everything seems to be ok... --Carsten
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 06/12/14 15:16, Stuart Henderson wrote: On 2014-06-11, Fred open...@crowsons.com wrote: On 06/11/14 15:16, Carsten Kunze wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Rodrigo Mosconi open...@mosconi.mat.br An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:05 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS What is the output from echo $?, after you run the getent ... command? $ getent hosts `hostname` $ echo $? 0 `hostname` should be replaced with a host...eg: Actually I meant exactly what I typed - the relevant thing here is whether there is a delay looking up the local hostname. I was being a muppet - I didn't notice the `back ticks` (~:
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 2014/06/11 00:11, Allan Streib wrote: Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org writes: This came up before, and I replied: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=139450013100779w=2 The knob change you are recommending here allows 2GB shared memory. Depends on the system but for some people this will be way too much. I doubled my kern.shminfo.shmall setting to 16384 and that alone seems to have made my web browsers much happier. Too soon to say for sure, but that's the first impression. To be clear, this can *only* affect programs which use SysV shared memory. Chromium uses it for some users but from what I understand they do random trials with different methods so some people may be using it and others not. Not sure about Firefox, but the process I have running at the moment isn't using any, you can use ipcs(1) to look.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Hi STeve, In my experience, OpenBSD's I/O operation speed depends on what I do. When I run rsync over a folder with many sub-folders and over 10,000 files (small files and large files), Linux is faster than OpenBSD. Kind regards, Xianwen On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 12:40 AM, STeve Andre' and...@msu.edu wrote: On 06/10/14 01:17, Amit Kulkarni wrote: Lastly, I will remind you that the fastest OS compared to OpenBSD is very likely less than 15%. Say its 25% even, and you could get faster hardware to accomedate that. Come on, that is a false assertion. OpenBSD does have its warts, like everybody else out there. They are different warts compared to others. But IMHO running it slow with security is better than running it fast, and not paying attention to secuirty. It's false? You think OpenBSD is slower than 15%? I don't, based on a few tests run against some version of Debian. It was faster, both in terms of disk i/o and the running of a program that did a lot of computations with little output. It seemed to me to be less than 6%, using stopwatches but small enough to make me stop testing. But I think you agree with the general tone of this? --STeve Andre' -- Xianwen Chen | xchen.tk
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: STeve Andre' and...@msu.edu An: OpenBSD Misc misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 00:40 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS But I think you agree with the general tone of this? In some aspects OpenBSD is *very* slow. After booting the X Windows System appears without delay but then it takes 23 seconds until xdm screen opens (on a fast Dell E6540). Also after changing from X to a virtual console and back (in the test case xlock was active) X appears without delay but it takes 10 seconds until the keyboard works. There is no delay in this cases on NetBSD or Linux even on my very old Dell D830 and even with a nvidia card. What can be the reason for this large delays? --Carsten
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Great tips! For a fresh install of OpenBSD, enabling softupdates may also help a bit (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#SoftUpdates). I know it's trivial, but maybe it's not that obvious for newbies. Also, having a supported video card would help in some heavy desktop environments, like Xfce (the new radeon driver in 5.5 made quite the difference on my machine). Claudiu. To: str...@cs.indiana.edu CC: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS From: pe...@bsdly.net Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:28:32 +0200 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu writes: Can you share what you changed in login.conf, and what problems were resolved as a result? I mucked around with increasing the shared memory limits, and in fact it helped certain browsers go from glacial response times to merely 'a tad slow at times, YMMW'. http://home.nuug.no/~peter/transition/bsdcan2014/desktop.html and the following slide has the meat, such as it is. There's more work to be done for any 'OpenBSD as the ultimate desktop' article, though. - Peter -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Not just fastest OS but The Best OS. On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Claudiu TÄnÄselia clau...@tanaselia.ro wrote: Great tips! For a fresh install of OpenBSD, enabling softupdates may also help a bit (http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq14.html#SoftUpdates). I know it's trivial, but maybe it's not that obvious for newbies. Also, having a supported video card would help in some heavy desktop environments, like Xfce (the new radeon driver in 5.5 made quite the difference on my machine). Claudiu. To: str...@cs.indiana.edu CC: misc@openbsd.org Subject: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS From: pe...@bsdly.net Date: Mon, 9 Jun 2014 22:28:32 +0200 Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu writes: Can you share what you changed in login.conf, and what problems were resolved as a result? I mucked around with increasing the shared memory limits, and in fact it helped certain browsers go from glacial response times to merely 'a tad slow at times, YMMW'. http://home.nuug.no/~peter/transition/bsdcan2014/desktop.html and the following slide has the meat, such as it is. There's more work to be done for any 'OpenBSD as the ultimate desktop' article, though. - Peter -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 2014-06-11, Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: STeve Andre' and...@msu.edu An: OpenBSD Misc misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 00:40 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS But I think you agree with the general tone of this? In some aspects OpenBSD is *very* slow. After booting the X Windows System appears without delay but then it takes 23 seconds until xdm screen opens (on a fast Dell E6540). Also after changing from X to a virtual console and back (in the test case xlock was active) X appears without delay but it takes 10 seconds until the keyboard works. There is no delay in this cases on NetBSD or Linux even on my very old Dell D830 and even with a nvidia card. What can be the reason for this large delays? --Carsten This may be a hostname lookup issue. Is this slow too? $ getent hosts `hostname`
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org An: misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 13:50 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS This may be a hostname lookup issue. Is this slow too? $ getent hosts `hostname` No, it returns fast (but does not print anything).
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
2014-06-11 10:58 GMT-03:00 Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de: - Original Nachricht Von: Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org An: misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 13:50 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS This may be a hostname lookup issue. Is this slow too? $ getent hosts `hostname` No, it returns fast (but does not print anything). What is the output from echo $?, after you run the getent ... command?
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: Rodrigo Mosconi open...@mosconi.mat.br An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:05 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS What is the output from echo $?, after you run the getent ... command? $ getent hosts `hostname` $ echo $? 0
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 06/11/14 15:16, Carsten Kunze wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Rodrigo Mosconi open...@mosconi.mat.br An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:05 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS What is the output from echo $?, after you run the getent ... command? $ getent hosts `hostname` $ echo $? 0 `hostname` should be replaced with a host...eg: port:fred ~ getent hosts 'google.com' 173.194.41.160 google.com 173.194.41.163 google.com 173.194.41.168 google.com 173.194.41.167 google.com 173.194.41.161 google.com 173.194.41.165 google.com 173.194.41.164 google.com 173.194.41.169 google.com 173.194.41.174 google.com 173.194.41.162 google.com 173.194.41.166 google.com 2a00:1450:4009:809::1003google.com
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: Fred open...@crowsons.com An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de, misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 16:25 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS `hostname` should be replaced with a host...eg: port:fred ~ getent hosts 'google.com' 173.194.41.160 google.com 173.194.41.163 google.com 173.194.41.168 google.com 173.194.41.167 google.com 173.194.41.161 google.com 173.194.41.165 google.com 173.194.41.164 google.com 173.194.41.169 google.com 173.194.41.174 google.com 173.194.41.162 google.com 173.194.41.166 google.com 2a00:1450:4009:809::1003google.com In this case I have similar output. Also without delay.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 06/11/14 15:25, Fred wrote: On 06/11/14 15:16, Carsten Kunze wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Rodrigo Mosconi open...@mosconi.mat.br An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:05 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS What is the output from echo $?, after you run the getent ... command? $ getent hosts `hostname` $ echo $? 0 `hostname` should be replaced with a host...eg: port:fred ~ getent hosts 'google.com' 173.194.41.160 google.com 173.194.41.163 google.com 173.194.41.168 google.com 173.194.41.167 google.com 173.194.41.161 google.com 173.194.41.165 google.com 173.194.41.164 google.com 173.194.41.169 google.com 173.194.41.174 google.com 173.194.41.162 google.com 173.194.41.166 google.com 2a00:1450:4009:809::1003google.com Sent to quickly :~( if `hostname` is not returning anything then the current system does not have an /etc/myname file. hth Fred
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: Fred open...@crowsons.com An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de, misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 16:25 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS `hostname` should be replaced with a host...eg: port:fred ~ getent hosts 'google.com' 173.194.41.160 google.com 173.194.41.163 google.com 173.194.41.168 google.com 173.194.41.167 google.com 173.194.41.161 google.com 173.194.41.165 google.com 173.194.41.164 google.com 173.194.41.169 google.com 173.194.41.174 google.com 173.194.41.162 google.com 173.194.41.166 google.com 2a00:1450:4009:809::1003google.com In this case I have similar output. Also without delay. Also: # cat /etc/myname and: # cat /etc/hosts ciao, David
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: Fred open...@crowsons.com An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de, misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 16:28 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS Sent to quickly :~( if `hostname` is not returning anything then the current system does not have an /etc/myname file. No, it has this file ... It contains a name of the form a.b.c where b.c is an offical domain name, but a is unkown to an external name server. (But a.b.c is known to our intranet name server.) --Carsten
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Carsten Kunze [carsten.ku...@arcor.de] wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: STeve Andre' and...@msu.edu An: OpenBSD Misc misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 00:40 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS But I think you agree with the general tone of this? In some aspects OpenBSD is *very* slow. After booting the X Windows System appears without delay but then it takes 23 seconds until xdm screen opens (on a fast Dell E6540). Also after changing from X to a virtual console and back (in the test case xlock was active) X appears without delay but it takes 10 seconds until the keyboard works. I believe this is fixed in -current. ps/2 mouse driver issue compared to modern hardware
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: David Coppa dco...@gmail.com An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:35 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS # cat /etc/myname It's a company hostname, I don't know, if I get legal issues It's like a146.b.com a and b are words with lowercase letters. b.com is known to external name servers. # cat /etc/hosts # $OpenBSD: hosts,v 1.12 2009/03/10 00:42:13 deraadt Exp $ # # Host Database # # RFC 1918 specifies that these networks are internal. # 10.0.0.0 10.255.255.255 # 172.16.0.0172.31.255.255 # 192.168.0.0 192.168.255.255 # 127.0.0.1 localhost ::1 localhost Cheers, Carsten
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On Wed, Jun 11, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net wrote: Carsten Kunze [carsten.ku...@arcor.de] wrote: - Original Nachricht Von: STeve Andre' and...@msu.edu An: OpenBSD Misc misc@openbsd.org Datum: 11.06.2014 00:40 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS But I think you agree with the general tone of this? In some aspects OpenBSD is *very* slow. After booting the X Windows System appears without delay but then it takes 23 seconds until xdm screen opens (on a fast Dell E6540). Also after changing from X to a virtual console and back (in the test case xlock was active) X appears without delay but it takes 10 seconds until the keyboard works. I believe this is fixed in -current. ps/2 mouse driver issue compared to modern hardware Chris is right. It's a Dell, so you probably need this patch: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/dev/pckbc/pms.c.diff?r1=1.49;r2=1.50 Ciao! David
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net An: Carsten Kunze carsten.ku...@arcor.de Datum: 11.06.2014 16:45 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS I believe this is fixed in -current. ps/2 mouse driver issue compared to modern hardware Ok, thanx for this!
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Nachricht Von: David Coppa dco...@gmail.com An: Chris Cappuccio ch...@nmedia.net Datum: 11.06.2014 16:55 Betreff: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS Chris is right. It's a Dell, so you probably need this patch: http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/cvsweb/src/sys/dev/pckbc/pms.c.diff?r1=1.49;r 2=1.50 Ciao! David Ok, my old laptop had this problem too, it had also been a Dell ;) Thank you all! Cheers, Carsten
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On Mon, 9 Jun 2014, John D. Verne wrote: From: John D. Verne j...@clevermonkey.org To: misc@openbsd.org Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 01:37:53 Subject: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS ... Probably the biggest reason OpenBSD will never be the fastest OS around is the simple fact that when optimizing for speed, you sacrifice other things. Like security. Security, or correctness, means you are looking for the most reliable way to do something, not the fastest. Mechanisms like pro-police (or a new name for it?) are going to slow things down a little. I think Theo said that all the security systems slow a system down by less than 5%. I believe that. The effect isn't huge but some would call that too much. Indeed. Good, fast, or cheap. Choose any two. To go somewhat off-topic, I'm reminded of one of the quotes of the late Chuck Yerkes: Shirt, Shoes, Sober... -- pick two. -- Chuck Yerkes Chuck was a long-time contributor to this list and OpenBSD. The above quote amuses me. -- Dennis Davis dennisda...@fastmail.fm
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Too bad there wasn’t a “Like” or “+1” button for mentioning Chuck Yerkes. Must be 10 years since he died. gg — g...@grub.net PGP Key ID DB8BF93C On Jun 10, 2014, at 1:06 AM, Dennis Davis dennisdavis+openbsd-m...@fastmail.fm wrote: On Mon, 9 Jun 2014, John D. Verne wrote: From: John D. Verne j...@clevermonkey.org To: misc@openbsd.org Date: Tue, 10 Jun 2014 01:37:53 Subject: Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS ... Probably the biggest reason OpenBSD will never be the fastest OS around is the simple fact that when optimizing for speed, you sacrifice other things. Like security. Security, or correctness, means you are looking for the most reliable way to do something, not the fastest. Mechanisms like pro-police (or a new name for it?) are going to slow things down a little. I think Theo said that all the security systems slow a system down by less than 5%. I believe that. The effect isn't huge but some would call that too much. Indeed. Good, fast, or cheap. Choose any two. To go somewhat off-topic, I'm reminded of one of the quotes of the late Chuck Yerkes: Shirt, Shoes, Sober... -- pick two. -- Chuck Yerkes Chuck was a long-time contributor to this list and OpenBSD. The above quote amuses me. -- Dennis Davis dennisda...@fastmail.fm
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 06/10/14 01:17, Amit Kulkarni wrote: Lastly, I will remind you that the fastest OS compared to OpenBSD is very likely less than 15%. Say its 25% even, and you could get faster hardware to accomedate that. Come on, that is a false assertion. OpenBSD does have its warts, like everybody else out there. They are different warts compared to others. But IMHO running it slow with security is better than running it fast, and not paying attention to secuirty. It's false? You think OpenBSD is slower than 15%? I don't, based on a few tests run against some version of Debian. It was faster, both in terms of disk i/o and the running of a program that did a lot of computations with little output. It seemed to me to be less than 6%, using stopwatches but small enough to make me stop testing. But I think you agree with the general tone of this? --STeve Andre'
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 2014-06-09, Peter N. M. Hansteen pe...@bsdly.net wrote: Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu writes: Can you share what you changed in login.conf, and what problems were resolved as a result? I mucked around with increasing the shared memory limits, and in fact it helped certain browsers go from glacial response times to merely 'a tad slow at times, YMMW'. http://home.nuug.no/~peter/transition/bsdcan2014/desktop.html and the following slide has the meat, such as it is. There's more work to be done for any 'OpenBSD as the ultimate desktop' article, though. - Peter This came up before, and I replied: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=139450013100779w=2 The knob change you are recommending here allows 2GB shared memory. Depends on the system but for some people this will be way too much.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org writes: This came up before, and I replied: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=139450013100779w=2 The knob change you are recommending here allows 2GB shared memory. Depends on the system but for some people this will be way too much. Yes, I should make that clearer in the slide and when I get enough round tuits, the wip article. - P -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Stuart Henderson s...@spacehopper.org writes: This came up before, and I replied: http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-portsm=139450013100779w=2 The knob change you are recommending here allows 2GB shared memory. Depends on the system but for some people this will be way too much. I doubled my kern.shminfo.shmall setting to 16384 and that alone seems to have made my web browsers much happier. Too soon to say for sure, but that's the first impression. Allan
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 5. mars 2014 at 5:11 PM, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote: [...snip...] So here's your chance! A good article could earn you undeadly.org fame and megabytes of fan mail! I'll get started right away! O.D. On 5. mars 2014 at 5:11 PM, Peter N. M. Hansteen wrote:openda...@hushmail.com writes: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Speed is desirable, of course, at least to some degree. I for one would appreciate much if somebody beat me to writing a well researched article about how to optimize OpenBSD as it is *right now* for desktop wonderfulness. The reason I say this is after mucking about quite a bit with more or less relevant settings (on my by now four years old laptop) in order to get back some of the performance lost to endless code bloat in windowing environments, desktop suites, browsers and websites, I was at least a bit relieved to find yesterday evening that tweaking some settings in login.conf actually had enough effect that I consider the machine mostly usable again. There's bound to be quite a few other things you can do, but digging deep enough is almost certain to be time consuming enough that I'm likely to postpone doing further research or a writeup until my now relatively usable system has helped me finish a few delayed tasks. So here's your chance! A good article could earn you undeadly.org fame and megabytes of fan mail! - Peter -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
openda...@hushmail.com writes: Speed is desirable, of course, at least to some degree. I for one would appreciate much if somebody beat me to writing a well researched article about how to optimize OpenBSD as it is *right now* for desktop wonderfulness. Hear hear. For a desktop I want something that's stable, consistent, and secure more than I care about squeezing out every bit of theoretical performance. There's bound to be quite a few other things you can do, but digging deep enough is almost certain to be time consuming enough that I'm likely to postpone doing further research or a writeup until my now relatively usable system has helped me finish a few delayed tasks. Can you share what you changed in login.conf, and what problems were resolved as a result? Allan
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Allan Streib str...@cs.indiana.edu writes: Can you share what you changed in login.conf, and what problems were resolved as a result? I mucked around with increasing the shared memory limits, and in fact it helped certain browsers go from glacial response times to merely 'a tad slow at times, YMMW'. http://home.nuug.no/~peter/transition/bsdcan2014/desktop.html and the following slide has the meat, such as it is. There's more work to be done for any 'OpenBSD as the ultimate desktop' article, though. - Peter -- Peter N. M. Hansteen, member of the first RFC 1149 implementation team http://bsdly.blogspot.com/ http://www.bsdly.net/ http://www.nuug.no/ Remember to set the evil bit on all malicious network traffic delilah spamd[29949]: 85.152.224.147: disconnected after 42673 seconds.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 03/05/14 10:08, openda...@hushmail.com wrote: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks. O.D. Lots of others have replied to this, but I'm going to jump in with a few comments. Probably the biggest reason OpenBSD will never be the fastest OS around is the simple fact that when optimizing for speed, you sacrifice other things. Like security. Security, or correctness, means you are looking for the most reliable way to do something, not the fastest. Mechanisms like pro-police (or a new name for it?) are going to slow things down a little. I think Theo said that all the security systems slow a system down by less than 5%. I believe that. The effect isn't huge but some would call that too much. Oh Well. When something can be done more efficiently, it is. But not at the cost of potential security problems. The MP code is a classic case of something written that strives to avoid race conditions at all costs. Me, I'd rather lose a few percent rather than have a hole. Lastly, I will remind you that the fastest OS compared to OpenBSD is very likely less than 15%. Say its 25% even, and you could get faster hardware to accomedate that. In an era of ever increasing hardware speed, optimizing on anything other than security and stability is foolish. --STeve Andre'
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On Mon, Jun 09, 2014 at 04:12:07PM -0400, STeve Andre' wrote: On 03/05/14 10:08, openda...@hushmail.com wrote: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks. O.D. Lots of others have replied to this, but I'm going to jump in with a few comments. Probably the biggest reason OpenBSD will never be the fastest OS around is the simple fact that when optimizing for speed, you sacrifice other things. Like security. Security, or correctness, means you are looking for the most reliable way to do something, not the fastest. Mechanisms like pro-police (or a new name for it?) are going to slow things down a little. I think Theo said that all the security systems slow a system down by less than 5%. I believe that. The effect isn't huge but some would call that too much. Indeed. Good, fast, or cheap. Choose any two. This is an engineering maxim that has held up for quite some time now. There is a tension between these that cannot be resolved completely, and there will always be trade-offs to be made. -- John D. Verne j...@clevermonkey.org
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Lastly, I will remind you that the fastest OS compared to OpenBSD is very likely less than 15%. Say its 25% even, and you could get faster hardware to accomedate that. Come on, that is a false assertion. OpenBSD does have its warts, like everybody else out there. They are different warts compared to others. But IMHO running it slow with security is better than running it fast, and not paying attention to secuirty. In an era of ever increasing hardware speed, optimizing on anything other than security and stability is foolish. Yet, security and stability is why I stay with OpenBSD, as does most everybody who discover it.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
previously on this list openda...@hushmail.com contributed: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks. O.D. What do you mean, just run less? You need to consider what's important. It already is the fastest at providing entropy and installing and getting a secure server up and running, not to mention the potential of taking over Linux And Windows botnets slowing those machines down and creating a distributed network by handing data off to DragonFly BSD? -- ___ 'Write programs that do one thing and do it well. Write programs to work together. Write programs to handle text streams, because that is a universal interface' (Doug McIlroy) In Other Words - Don't design like polkit or systemd ___
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 03/05/14 10:08, openda...@hushmail.com wrote: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks. O.D. Wrong people. That would be Linux. Probably wrong time. That would be about ten years ago. I hope by 2020, people will maybe realize that being the fastest is far from the most important quality -- perhaps people will realize that security is very very critical in 95% of all computer applications... something the OpenBSD project will have been pushing for 25 years by then. Something like 13 years ago, a few kids sat in the parking lot of a Lowe's store (a large US home improvement store chain), using their idiotic wireless network to get into the store's network, and then to the corporate network. Public reaction: Evil hackers!...cost Lowes virtually nothing in damages or public relations (though they have NEVER got a dime of my business since). Last year, Target (a large general products store chain in the US, probably elsewhere) discovered someone had used their bad security to skim off millions of credit card records...and saw customers stay away in huge quantities. Customers are starting to recognize that it isn't just the bad guys -- if you don't implement proper security, you are as much to blame as those that exploit your bad design. Raw computer power continues to increase. It would be nice to stop counting stupid benchmarks and start looking at are we keeping our data and the data our customers entrust to us safe? (not to say there aren't places where OpenBSD's performance could be increased, but the idea of taking an OS oriented to security and claiming you want to make it the fastest is quite missing the point) Nick.
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On Wed, Mar 5, 2014, at 09:08 AM, openda...@hushmail.com wrote: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? OpenBSD has never been about making the fastest operating system, only the most secure operating system. You're welcome to fork the project and pursue different goals if you wish. -- Shawn K. Quinn skqu...@rushpost.com
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
- Original Message - | On Wed, Mar 5, 2014, at 09:08 AM, openda...@hushmail.com wrote: | Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? | | OpenBSD has never been about making the fastest operating system, | only | the most secure operating system. You're welcome to fork the project | and | pursue different goals if you wish. No. OpenBSD makes no claims to be the most secure operating system. From the web page The OpenBSD project produces a FREE, multi-platform 4.4BSD-based UNIX-like operating system. Our efforts emphasize portability, standardization, correctness, proactive security and integrated cryptography. That's it. To make a claim that OpenBSD is the most secure operating system would be false since there are many ways to define secure depending on who you talk to. -- James A. Peltier Manager, IT Services - Research Computing Group Simon Fraser University - Burnaby Campus Phone : 778-782-6573 Fax : 778-782-3045 E-Mail : jpelt...@sfu.ca Website : http://www.sfu.ca/itservices Around here, however, we don’t look backwards for very long. We KEEP MOVING FORWARD, opening up new doors and doing things because we’re curious and curiosity keeps leading us down new paths. - Walt Disney
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
On 03/05/2014 06:38 PM, openda...@hushmail.com wrote: Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks. O.D. I think the performance problem solved by Quantum Computing invention (However quantum computing is not deterministic and it's probabilistic but scientist will solve this too :) )! I guess the next problems will security and stability... However openbsd is not so slow if software like oracle would release its software under BSD!!! -- Regards, Sepahrad Salour
Re: Vision 2020: Making OpenBSD the world's fastest OS
Le 05/03/2014 16:08, openda...@hushmail.com a écrit : Anybody have any thoughts on how to achieve this? Thanks. O.D. Good luck.
