Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-18 Thread SPASTIC Member
127.0.0.1 is just another interface. All possible errors can happen. Imagine a server where the load is high enough that other processes don't get to run much... they write to localhost, expecting what's on the other end to get it, but the localhost interface buffers overflow. Or the

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-18 Thread Ben Laurie
SPASTIC Member wrote: 127.0.0.1 is just another interface. All possible errors can happen. Imagine a server where the load is high enough that other processes don't get to run much... they write to localhost, expecting what's on the other end to get it, but the localhost interface buffers

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-18 Thread Ralf S. Engelschall
On Wed, Nov 18, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: [...] My $0.02, if it's worth anything. But if that's the way you code Apache-SSL, I'm very glad my friend pointed me to mod_ssl. If you want to use a system where programming errors are "corrected" by removing the assertions that reveal them,

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-18 Thread Ben Laurie
Ralf S. Engelschall wrote: On Wed, Nov 18, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: [...] My $0.02, if it's worth anything. But if that's the way you code Apache-SSL, I'm very glad my friend pointed me to mod_ssl. If you want to use a system where programming errors are "corrected" by removing

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re:[apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-01 Thread Marc Slemko
On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: Ah, I also forgot to mention that an attacker with the ability to talk to gcache can completely screw you with just legitimate messages - by poisoning your cache. They can presumably also get access to session keys. So, if anyone can talk to gcache

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re:[apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-01 Thread Marc Slemko
On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: This is far to general a criterion. Some kinds of I/O are completely deterministic (given correct code). I agree that to assert on user input is not a brilliant idea, but on a tightly linked client/server pair, it seems to me no different to asserting

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-01 Thread Ben Laurie
Marc Slemko wrote: On Sat, 31 Oct 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: Ah, I also forgot to mention that an attacker with the ability to talk to gcache can completely screw you with just legitimate messages - by poisoning your cache. They can presumably also get access to session keys. So, if

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-01 Thread Ralf S. Engelschall
On Sat, Oct 31, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: [...] While you may think that the only way to run a SSL server is where no one can login, no users can run any programs on it, etc. in the real world that isn't always possible. I have to say that my main interest is in secure servers. If people

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-11-01 Thread Ben Laurie
Ralf S. Engelschall wrote: On Sat, Oct 31, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: [...] While you may think that the only way to run a SSL server is where no one can login, no users can run any programs on it, etc. in the real world that isn't always possible. I have to say that my main

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-31 Thread Ben Laurie
Ralf S. Engelschall wrote: And now I ask me why _isn't_ this better? I don't understand it, Ben. IMHO this non-assertion way _is_ better, because it prevents the system from being dropped down (kind of DoS) by a local attacker I'm happy to admit that is is a marginal improvement wrt a

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-31 Thread Ralf S. Engelschall
On Fri, Oct 30, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: Ralf S. Engelschall wrote: And now I ask me why _isn't_ this better? I don't understand it, Ben. IMHO this non-assertion way _is_ better, because it prevents the system from being dropped down (kind of DoS) by a local attacker I'm happy to

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-31 Thread Ben Laurie
Ah, I also forgot to mention that an attacker with the ability to talk to gcache can completely screw you with just legitimate messages - by poisoning your cache. They can presumably also get access to session keys. So, if anyone can talk to gcache apart from Apache-SSL, you've had it anyway.

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-31 Thread Ralf S. Engelschall
On Sat, Oct 31, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: Ralf S. Engelschall wrote: H??? Do you mean it cannot occur in practice? Or do I misunderstand you here. As I said: We not even need an attacker: When an I/O read error occurs for gcache it already falls down. So the DoS attacker is just the

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-31 Thread Ralf S. Engelschall
On Sat, Oct 31, 1998, Ben Laurie wrote: Ah, I also forgot to mention that an attacker with the ability to talk to gcache can completely screw you with just legitimate messages - by poisoning your cache. They can presumably also get access to session keys. So, if anyone can talk to gcache

Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re: [apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-30 Thread Ralf S. Engelschall
In article [EMAIL PROTECTED] you wrote: [...a interesting discussion on the apache-ssl list with Ben Laurie whether assertions in server code are reasonable or not...] The discussion is pointless unless you can indicate a way in which it makes Apache-SSL function incorrectly. How about

Re: [apache-ssl] Assertions considered bad!? (was: Re:[apache-ssl] Invalid method in request)

1998-10-30 Thread Marc Slemko
On Fri, 30 Oct 1998, Ralf S. Engelschall wrote: So on a typical system an attacker who gained access to _any_ account (not necessarily the UID of the httpd or the gcache process) can simply dropping down gcache and this way all httpds by just sending garbage to the gcache port. What does