break other uses)
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http://www.smashingmagazine.com/2008/09/18/the-top-7-open-source-version-control-systems/
Doesn't say much, but states that it values integrity highly =)
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“If knowledge can create problems, it is not through ignorance that we
can solve them.” (Isaac Asimov
Felipe Contreras wrote:
Right now I'm fetching the whole contents of the file anyway, git
would check if the file has changed or not.
Then you can easily have the file id, that is (currently) the SHA-1 of
the file...
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was pleasantly
surprised by the fact that content was *always* using binary diffs and
only using text for merging or annotating or so…
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-safe, I guess we would have discovered any bug by
now for sure, we even committed gigs of binary content (photos) at the
summit ;-)
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projects in the wiki, more like
bigger adoption implies more patch/developers eventually available)
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“The Magic Words are Squeamish Ossifrage” (Ron Rivest, RSA-129
challenge, 1977)
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with it, and continue the migration?
It's not nice to have only one wiki visibile, and that one with a big
migration in progress, please wait… we could have them both linked in
homepage for some time…
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“I never think of the future, it comes soon enough.” (Albert
at the summit
because they were capable of crashing ikiwiki completely, but I see that
Richard's website managed to update, so that ikiwiki bug was probably
solved in the meantime ;-)
--
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“There are 10 types of people in this world, those who understand binary
forget to use '-N' (non-recursive) flag
and have to un-add lots of files at least once per week =)
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“Computers are good at following instructions, but not at reading your
mind.” (Donald Knuth)
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As reported to me by a french friend of mine, using win32 installer (I
always use cygwin, so I know little about that)
E:\mtn -d megatokyo.mtn -b it.megatokyo.test.www checkout e:\www\
mtn: avertissement : current directory 'E:' is not below root 'E:/'
mtn: utilisation erronÚeá: la branche
\
--plugin graphviz --plugin table --exclude 'index\.mdwn' \
ikiwiki/checkout/dir/ output/dir/
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William Uther wrote:
I had a quick look at this wanting to help. t seems that there are many
good and useful pages (such as the BestPractices sub-tree). There are
also a bunch of pages that were set up to list some points around a
theme that have drifted way out of date (e.g. AttrUseCases).
As reported by Christof during the summit, I can confirm the Cygwin port
of Monotone is broken on Vista.
I will try to solve the problem ASAP.
Lapo
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Daniel Carosone wrote:
We're in the process of migrating the wiki to ikiwiki, which will be
used to generate the main website content, wiki parts included.
...and we did quite a bit of it, in the last couple of days, I'd say =)
Graydon, could you please disable edits on the current wiki?
Christof Petig wrote:
Botan seems to call memset on buffer free. And since we call hex_decode
some 100k times per OE roster read, this easily adds up.
I don't know whether botan's hex_decode is slow or fast, but using
dynamic buffering here kills performance.
I don't think it's a problem of
Christof Petig wrote:
(especially
given that, according to Lapo, there is/was a specialized 40 digit hex
decoder in monotone written by Graydon.
It was Eric's mail pointing to that 2006 revision actually, but that
should be in mainline even now...
Lapo
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Another thing to keep in mind: instead of trying hard to squeeze out the
last bits of performance from the decoder, it might rather be possible
to avoid en- and decoding steps completely by using a binary roster
format - thus also storing binary hashes.
That's my
Thomas Keller wrote:
Sorry, but just ranting that something doesn't work or something is
missing doesn't bring you anywhere if you're working with an Open
Source tool.
Well, don't be too harsh, it's not like we don't accept suggestions as
well, but the fact is: they are two different system,
Christof Petig wrote:
mtn: Zertifikate | Schlüssel | Revisionen
mtn: 76.702 |74 | 25.283
mtn: Bytes rein | Bytes raus | Zertifikate rein | Revisionen rein
mtn: 1,1 M |361,4 k | 560/560 | 136/136
mtn: erfolgreicher Austausch mit localhost
On all my
Lapo Luchini wrote:
This way I only have, on each sync, to double-check the certs created at
the time of the frontier, which as we well know is usually composed of
only a few heads (1, 2, rarely more).
Uh, not so, this does not work as well, seen in the daylight: *which*
frontier? The very
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Anyway, once again, the eierlegende-wollmilchsau called policy branches
will solve (as opposed to work around) these problems for monotone, one
day.
Is that some sort of German shmoo[1]?
Lapo
1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shmoo
Jack Lloyd wrote:
Is there anything better?
Sure it is =)
http://monotone.ca/monotone.html#Hooks
-- note_netsync_revision_received (new_id, revision, certs, session_id)
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Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Hi,
Lapo Luchini wrote:
Is that some sort of German shmoo[1]?
Mh.. not quite. But you should have enough Germans around you to
explain to you ;-)
It's one of those very powerful and efficient animals which produce
eggs (Eier), Wool (Wolle) and Milk (Milch
Today I had a quick chat with Markus and Derek about nuskool and
actually went and read gsync.cc and -to my surprise- I have to agree
with 'em when they said it's easy, really!.
I didn't really thought so at first.
OK. It transfers the DAG oh-so-nice, and cleverly so too. Then they told
me
I won't probably be able to read mail from this evening until the
summit... see you there ;-)
Lapo
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I was thinking... during this past year after the last summit I read
many times sentences like we are waiting to do that until the next flag
day... is there a place those informations are kept?
Is it now the time to actually suffer that flag day? Or, at least, to
plan for it? (maybe a
Richard Levitte wrote:
lapo 2. use principals instead of key names all around
Uhmmm, what's a principal in this context?
Something like the hash of the public key material instead of a
user-chosen text.
Lapo
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Richard Levitte wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:39:32 +0200, Lapo Luchini
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
lapo Richard Levitte wrote:
lapo lapo 2. use principals instead of key names all around
lapo Uhmmm, what's a principal in this context?
lapo
lapo Something like
Koen Kooi wrote:
Please ensure that new mtn releases can still talk to 'old' releases
over netsync
Some of the changes I mentioned can allow this, some other simply do not...
As far as I know netsync (i.e. very little) changing the hash to
something that's not 20 byte long will necessarily
Stephen Leake wrote:
The cygwin and mingw32 binaries for 0.40 have not appeared on the
monotone website yet.
Cygwin binaries actually never appeared on the monotone website, only
links to Cygwin's installer as far as I remember.
Could whoever currently does the Cygwin binary add a
Zack Weinberg wrote:
I'm not aware of any reason other than backward compatibility, but
that's a doozy: this is yet another of the changes that would require
a cert-reissuing event.
AFAIR of the summit the ssh-agent support was a problem, too.
On a tangent of the pros of abandoning the most
Lapo Luchini wrote:
ECDSA signatures would be so small
Which is of course of PARAMOUNT IMPORTANCE, because signatures right now
use almost 4% of database space. That's not acceptable.
(yes, I'm kidding)
% mtn db exec 'SELECT SUM(LENGTH(signature)) FROM revision_certs;'
5861887
% bc
5861888
Philipp Gröschler wrote:
I thought that a small viewing
application based on PHP couldn't be that much of a problem.
I had that phase too, and began a little something... but being alone,
and being redundant, and having little precious free time, I eventually
abandoned it...
I had a little
Nathaniel Smith wrote:
What else are random numbers used for? As I understand it, signing
does not use random numbers, but maybe I'm confused.
IIRC signatures do include random nonces -- I think this is one of the
things I picked up from Paul's rants about our cryptography -- but I
could be
Thomas Keller wrote:
I urge everyone who is interested in seeing monotone as mentor
organization in this year's Google Summer Of Code program to step up and
[...] step up as mentor for one or more of those projects
I'd like to, but I didn't had enough time to even completely acquaint
myself
Matthew Nicholson wrote:
Perhaps we should start a branch to replace netxx with boost::asio[0]
which is similar in design and functionality and maintained upstream
(and will be a part of the next major boost release).
It's used by projects as big as AbiWord (ons Boost), so the probability
of
Lapo Luchini wrote:
(ons Boost), so the probability
When and is mispelled ons, medical advise is highly suggested.
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Thomas Keller wrote:
Could one of the guys
who're sending the application last year / the year before last year
give me the original application texts as blueprint for this year's
application?
AFAIR that was Nathaniel...
I've also created a raw ideas page [1]
I'll try to add to it soon =)
Nathaniel Smith wrote:
The application for 2007 (that they ended up not reading because of
confusing deadline issues) is still up at
http://www.venge.net/mtn-wiki/SummerOfCode2007
and probably most of it still applies.
You really like the word 'grotty', don't you? ;-)
Lapo
PS: I guess
I've noticed that monotone doesn't accept the quite common form
[::1]:4691 to specify both IPv6 address and port explicitly... I taken
a look at the netsync code and discovered that well, except for the case
:4691 where only the port is specified, it's not managed by monotone
at all but by
Thomas Keller wrote:
It filters bots more effectively, the statistics are more extensive (geo
targeting, f.e.) and the UI is very catchy.
Ok, after having received three mostly negative answers, I'll drop the
idea ;)
FWIW I use it on my websites, and like it. =)
(I *also* run
Stephen Leake wrote:
I've got Cygwin installed, so I'm hoping the Unix instructions will
just work; so far they have. More later.
What stopped me in the past (together with a general lack of time) is
the fact that I'd like such a bot to use a separated user privileges and
was not very
Lapo Luchini wrote:
Ludovic, Markus? Who else for a mini-meeting?
I'm in for a mini-meeting, even if we only discuss the differences
between German and Belgian beer, French and Italian wine, and various
key signing policies. My motivation for FOSDEM itself is way down […]
I will confirm my
Zack Weinberg wrote:
It's a consequence of certain fields in the database being run through
a canonicalization designed for domain names (that's what IDNA is).
The only person who might possibly have remembered the rationale is
Graydon, but I already asked him and he doesn't. :-/
One (valid,
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
On the other hand, Windows Cygwin is easy to use. On the gripping
hand, some people just hate Windows Cygwin.
Yes, from what I know, it's said to be slow.
And some others just love it ;)
It certainly adds syscall-overhead (main reason being that
copy-on-write
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Windows will keep DLLs separate if they are in separate directories.
So putting the DLLs for mtn in the same directory as mtn.exe should be
enough.
Sure, but that drives the concept of shared libraries ad absurbum. It's
probably safer and simpler to provide a single
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Anybody with a sane windows box brave enough to try using a PCRE dll?
Unfortunately my only remaining Windows box is currently not able to
power up... any Windows-related development and packaging will have to
wait a bit on my side =(
Thomas Keller wrote:
It's weird because for example, (révision de base) is output as
(rÚvision de base) where:
- é is ISO8859-1 0xE9 or U+00E9
- Ú is ISO8859-1 0xDA or U+00DA
I can't recall in which version this problem appeared.
Which package do you use? The native binary or the cygwin package?
Zack Weinberg wrote:
1a) The configure script now will not let you use a system-provided
libpcre if it's a different version than the bundled one.
Wow, does PCRE *really* break backward-compatibility so often and so
badly to need such a check?
Lapo
? (just curiosity)
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Zack Weinberg wrote:
Yeah, I should have time to do that this evening or tomorrow.
--with-system-pcre works ok, does it?
(yes, to a quick test it seems to me it is)
In that case, I'll probably use that in next FreeBSD port update, I
think it's better that way, as security bugs are then followed
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Hi,
Koen Kooi wrote:
Releases are cheap[1]
Not sure how much Richard and the downstream packet managers agree with
that, even given [1].
Provided it continues to build with the same compiler and so on (which
wasn't so, for example, for AMD64 + gcc3 + 0.37 :-P)
Zack Weinberg wrote:
About the hypotetic debug mode... I don't know nothing about that,
i.e. if something of that sort is in place it's not intentional (but I
really know nothing about the python/twistd part of the bot).
malloc(3) lists a bunch of debugging options.[1] I don't see
William Uther wrote:
Firstly, I note that 10768*1024 = 11026432. That means that the maximum
resident set size is greater than the softlimit you set, no?
Not necessarily, softlimit -d only limits the data segment, not the
code size.
/usr/bin/time -l './unit_tester refiner:various_counts
the python/twistd part of the bot).
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William Uther wrote:
Hi,
The BSD buildbots have been failing for a while. This itches.
I do agree =)
(The VMware settings gave the virtual machine
a minimal 256Mb of RAM). Everything passed. The buildbots are
softlimited to -d25600 from memory. I couldn't find softlimit
on my
Thomas Keller wrote:
the thing is just that
the key prompt is localized and therefor not nice to parse.
I strongly suggest to have LANG=C in the environment each time the
caller is an application and not an user, you can modulo out
translation problems, at least ;-)
Lapo
Zack Weinberg wrote:
net.venge.monotone.read-password-from-dev-tty branch, but I never
finished it. It was my intent to implement --passphrase-fd as part of
that work.
I don't know enough about Windows to say how it ought to work there,
nor do I know enough about what you're doing to say
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
The following supposedly still works, provided you use a monotone
enhanced sqlite, which provides an unhex() function:
WHERE unhex(id) LIKE 'deadbe%'
Don't you need the HEX() function, in fact, to do this?
That's standard SQLite, AFAIR =)
Lapo
Thomas Keller wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schrieb:
- support of symlinks
Symlinks could be supported with hooks right now, but if you want to
have this into mtn core we'd need somebody with experience on Win32 i.e.
how symlinks could be handled there.
AFAIK Windows doesn't really have
Lapo Luchini wrote:
PS: I don't know about SFU, but even if it did emulate them, they
wouldn't work using plain native processes anyway, I guess.
Just as I suspected:
http://www.microsoft.com/technet/technetmag/issues/2005/05/InterOp/
SFU and the Interix subsystem support both hard
Alvaro Herrera wrote:
There was
some code posted that was extracting all heads and them removing the
ones that were suspended. Or something like that. [...]
What you're doing amount to 1 query to get the list, and
then N queries to potentially remove each of the N results.
I don't think
For the records, using Cygwin I can add/remove accented filenames
correctly, and mtn status reports them correctly, while the message of
add/remove does not; mtn ls unknown fails completely though.
% export LANG=en_US.CP1252
% touch zzzà.txt
% mtn add zzzà.txt
mtn: adding zzzà .txt to
Ludovic Brenta wrote:
The developers' rooms have all been assigned now, so it would be too
late to ask for one even if we had 100 confirmed attendees.
There is also the opportunity (expiring in 9 days) for a lightning talk:
http://www.fosdem.org/2008/lightningtalks
Lightning Talks are your 15
Daniel Carosone wrote:
Let's think about what the user might be asking for:
- show me branches that are alive/interesting (for checkout,
propagate, etc). This is ls branches and should validate branch
and suspend certs, and filter accordingly. Clearly, the common
operation.
Lapo Luchini wrote:
I don't know that removes the warm fuzzy feeling of absolute
correctness, but would certainly help in the speed side.
*If* we decide to do this of this sort, we could consider using a single
common speed over security option... with maybe more levels, in this
case
? Not as a default, I'd say.
When used on a one-person-only PC it certainly has some sense... and
we could check permissions to be 0600 like SSH does for his keys (and
explain it clearly in the option's help, also).
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Thomas Keller wrote:
Well, if others are ok with it, leave it as is (I don't have to decide
that, really ;). Just note that, next time you do wanted/accidential
formatting changes, do that in a separate revision to make it easier for
others to read the diff afterwards.
But if they are
Ralf S. Engelschall wrote:
Sorry, in case this seems too strange for most of you, but it a
problem I'm faced with mostly every day and I really would appreciate
some additional support from Monotone. Let me describe...
In fact that happens to me often enough, too.
(and right now I'm usually
Question about European flights: Ryanair has some quite-low-cost offers,
*but* arrives in NRN, not DUS... and as far as GoogleMaps goes, it seems
to be on the opposite side of Dusseldorf, to Wuppertal.
Is there a good train service from there to Dusseldorf and/or Wuppertal?
Mhh, ok, I mostly
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
I wonder is CVS import actually all that important anymore? Should we
rather be concentrating on SVN, git, and mercurial compatibility?
Well, at least to me and to Kelly, is still *is* pretty important.
IMHO it is still important... but OTOH we're kinda missing
Lapo Luchini wrote:
PS: mtn pluck on the new main-revision did the correct thing... even
tough I don't like pluck very much, as it leaves no DAG-evidence of
what was done...
...and not even the perfectly correct thing after all, as the very
fact of leaving no evidence lead to a rename target
I first created a sample sub-project:
sub% mtn au get_manifest_of
format_version 1
dir
file sub_file
content [71fa367aa2adf747bd05a43d516495cedcbf2b0b]
Then a sample main project:
main% mtn au get_manifest_of
format_version 1
dir
file main_a
content
Siegfried Herbold wrote:
So, new version of
http://www.venge.net/mtn-wiki/MtnSummit2008
is now available. (I'm back from my winter holiday.)
The room is reserved for us from Apr 28 until May 4.
Hooray! =)
Hope to see a lot of people
AFAIR last year quite a few people showed up only
As Thomas Keller said: Stand up, speak up!
http://www.venge.net/mtn-wiki/MtnSummit2008
There seem to be two columns when our gracious host and self-proposed
main organizer (that is, Siggi, as per [EMAIL PROTECTED])
is available:
a) 31 march - 6 april
b) 38 april - 4 may
(thought he marked
http://venge.net/mtn-wiki/MtnSummit2008
Just to remind everyone that the Summit is not something only the 3-4
big-developers can and should attend to.
As the page states:
Our bar is strict but low: if you're willing to work, you're welcome to
come. Even if you haven't worked with monotone source
Boris wrote:
A developer lost his key and generated a new one (with the same key ID).
He sent his new public key to me and asked me to update the central
monotone server everyone uses to sync with. Can I simply drop his old
key and add his new one? Or will this be a problem as his old key has
Peter Schanhorst wrote:
NOTE: the mtn explicit_merge rev1 rev3 --branch=branch1 is
DISALLOWED by mtn, and there is not possible to enforce it using some
special cmd parameter.
I may be completely wrong (and I know nothing of ClearCase, in fact),
but I think the main problem is not what merge
vote
counts double as you're the host, IMvHO ;-)
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Lapo Luchini wrote:
Everybody did?
IMHO we should begin to talk about actual dates...
(which can, in turn, help people decide to participate, like I kinda
remember it was last year..?)
Well... it seems the *only* date that got a yes in every single row is
28apr-4may... and the conference room
Stephen Leake wrote:
Cygwin is also 32 bit.
Yes, and won't be different anytime soon.
Perhaps it should be:
o Windows (32 bit) _native_ _cygwin_
There are people running 64 bit Windows now. I assume it has some sort
of 32 bit compatibility mode, but we should still make it clear.
I do
Richard Levitte wrote:
A new release! 0.38 has few but important changes and bug fixes.
Impressive... my server in Nuremberg is in a nice server farm and has a
lot of bandwidth... but it's the first time I experience a 2Mbps
trans-oceanic download =)
(though monotone sources are probably too
Richard Levitte wrote:
In message [EMAIL PROTECTED] on Thu, 13 Dec 2007 11:19:01 +0100, Lapo
Luchini [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
lapo Cygwin binary and source packages on their way to Cygwin mirrors
lapo already... I wonder: should we advertise it someway in the
lapo homepage? Hosting
Lapo Luchini wrote:
Let's start with this:
EVERYBODY FILL IN AVAILABILITY-DATE TABLE!
http://www.venge.net/mtn-wiki/MtnSummit2008
...so that we can decide it (and thus book tickets) shortly ;-)
Everybody did?
IMHO we should begin to talk about actual dates...
(which can, in turn, help people
Arthur A. Gleckler wrote:
All is well now.
That was a real scare!
What about the broader UI problem this exposed?
I wonder what's best:
1. don't allow commits with names that are caseless-equals to existing
ones (or allow only it with a switch that clearly states use this only
if this project
Craig L. Ching wrote:
Well, that brings up an interesting question. So would it also be
possible for a revision to have two author certs as well? I mean, if
you can add certs manually, what sorts of things should I be watching
for? I'm working on a repository browser so I'm trying to make
Arthur A. Gleckler wrote:
That
seems to indicate that the history has been corrupted even before the
version where I upgraded.
Don't ever worry about that, really: committing a corrupted revision, it
*might* happen with a buggy release, but corrupting previously working
history is simply not
Craig L. Ching wrote:
Heh, I figured that but thought I'd just make sure, sometimes things
aren't as obvious as they seem, not so in this case ;-)
The most common source of dual-branched revisions is (I think) when you
propagate and no change is needed (a new branch cert is simply added,
as the
Suggestion for people that might consider writing TortoiseMtn (a
monotone-equivalent of TortoiseCVS or TortoiseSVN): the Bazaar team is
growing a TortoiseBzr (written in Python).
Since Bazaar is closer to Monotone than, say, CVS or SVN are, that's
probably the best starting point ;-)
Thomas Keller wrote:
AFAIR Matt did a small, but very noticable change wrt merging in
139613dd1ee3f2c7e4b0578aaacf1d8a67f240d9. We got pretty often complains
that a complex merge result was abandoned just because no or a wrong key
was given.
Another IMHO NEWS-worthy merge-related news is that
Daniel Atallah wrote:
I've gotten in the habit of using `mtn pull mtn up` to update my
working copies (I use the native win32 version of monotone in a cygwin
shell).
While I don't have answers to your problem (I didn't use the win32
version in ages), just out of curiosity, can I ask you why
Thomas Keller wrote:
Siegfried Herbold wrote:
OK, I'll organize the event.
Cool, thank you!
Let us know how we can be of help.
Yeah, if there is anything we can do remotely, let us know.
Let's start with this:
EVERYBODY FILL IN AVAILABILITY-DATE TABLE!
Markus wrote:
we've also thought about a DevRoom at FOSDEM. Up until now, I only know that
Ludovic Brenta
wants to attend FOSDEM, Lapo showed some interest and I myself am
still undecided if I want
to go to Brussels. If nobody else speaks up, I don't think that
justifies a DevRoom there.
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
Siegfried Herbold wrote:
OK, I'll organize the event.
Cool, thank you!
Let us know how we can be of help.
Ditto =)
Lapo
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Lapo Luchini wrote:
Zurich vs Wuppertal: shall we need to toss the proverbial coin? ;-)
Err... my message was *NOT* meant to stop every discussion, rather the
opposite in fact :P
(or is it gmane.org bridge with monotone-ml suddenly broken
Thomas Keller wrote:
Stand up, speak up!
Zurich vs Wuppertal: shall we need to toss the proverbial coin? ;-)
Both seem interesting and have their pros, and no one seems like really
standing up for one or the other... but this way time flies and we risk
more and more likely to choose neither,
Markus Schiltknecht wrote:
I've offered that for Zurich about a month ago. But I got the impression
that it's too expensive for most people.
Zurich would be übercool! Awesome! Great! 0=)
BTW: I wouldn't dislike Wuppertal either... I guess the decision between
the two will be mainly fought as:
Richard Levitte wrote:
I won't deny that William's change is going to make a difference, but
I question if it will be *enough* of a difference.
IMHO as creation of more keys with same name will always be possible (in
disconnected spaces), we better accept to work with them properly (using
only
of needed memory. The import
doesn't run through, though. It hits another invariant later on.
Whops, that doesn't even fit in the swap, right now...
Well, I should have a box with more RAM HDD in the near future.
--
Lapo Luchini
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (OpenPGP X.509)
www.lapo.it (Jabber, ICQ, MSN
Lapo Luchini wrote:
Richard Levitte wrote:
markus Please let me know if you have an urgent desire for importing
markus a specific CVS repository or if you'd like to test importing
markus one yourself.
And I will try FreeBSD anytime soon.
It always stops at version 101454 like this:
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