Recently I have been suggesting a description of Quality (Q) as that which
separates. This is of course an analogy which provides a path to Quality,
or in other words, a finger which is pointing towards it. Such an
interpretation emphasizes that which separates Static Qualities (SQ), rather
than
this presence
and no more.
/A
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Ämne: [MD] Knots
Recently I have been suggesting a description of Quality (Q
Hi A,
Thank you for your thoughtful reply. I am in agreement with you. Yes,
early myths do seem to point towards differentiation. For whatever reason,
these ideas are in the core of the mind. I could speak of genetic memory,
but it is deeper than that. I think the inclusion of Jung is
On Nov 3, 2010, at 2:24 PM, david buchanan wrote:
dmb replies to Mark and Platt:
I can sympathize with your mental health problems and it's easy to see how
you might feel a kinship with Pirsig because of that but that does NOT
entitle you to distort what Pirsig says. And once
Hi Arlo,
Thanks for the response. I agree, trying to compare times in history is
difficult and beset with opinions. I believe the issue lies more in man's
apparent need to follow someone who professes the answer. This only leads
to corrupted power. If individual freedom is considered as a
[Platt]
Hi Mark,
We had much in common before and now even more. I, too,
suffered a nervous breakdown years ago over a conflict of values
that had potential devastating effect on my life. It was deep enough
to require 22 shock treatments and hospitalization for three months.
So I can
dmb replied to Mark and Platt:
If you need to believe certain things in order to maintain your sanity, those
beliefs will be impervious to criticism. They are too important, too central,
too crucial in their supporting role. But this supporting role is
psychological, not intellectual. The
On Nov 4, 2010, at 1:55 PM, david buchanan wrote:
dmb replied to Mark and Platt:
If you need to believe certain things in order to maintain your sanity, those
beliefs will be impervious to criticism. They are too important, too central,
too crucial in their supporting role. But this
[dmb]
If you need to believe certain things in order to maintain your sanity,
those beliefs will be impervious to criticism. They are too important, too
central, too crucial in their supporting role. But this supporting role is
psychological, not intellectual. The intellectual value and
Hi Mark,
Sorry but I missed a lot of what you say you covered. Can you repeat your
analogies and insights on a single page in summary form without compromising
your thoughts? Someone once said, If you can't write your idea on the back of
business card, it's not a good idea. Probably an
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 5:19 AM, platthol...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Platt,
Thank you for the proposal, good idea. I will review my posts from the
recent to back when I was posting from my aol account. If nothing else it
may bring clarity to myself. Much of my writing could be termed automatic
Hi Mark
On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 11:58 PM, 118 ununocti...@gmail.com wrote:
Interesting how in a forum inspired by the Great Robert Pirsig, there would
be closed mindedness to new methods for describing Quality.
Given that it would be so strange to find closed-mindedness on a forum
such as this
[Platt]
the delusions S-O critical thinking can so easily create...
[Arlo]
Critical thinking has nothing to do with S/O, as such a
metaphysical position means one that defines the first division of
reality into subject and objects. Pirsig deployed critical
thinking to develop a MOQ, where the
Mark said:
...In terms of Phaedrus, I also went through a temporary breakdown in the early
eighties. It was not destructive enough for shock therapy, and I did have a
community which supported me at the time. However, at the root of it was
serious questioning which resulted in a complete
On 3 Nov 2010 at 15:38, Arlo Bensinger wrote:
[Platt]
the delusions S-O critical thinking can so easily create...
[Arlo]
Critical thinking has nothing to do with S/O, as such a
metaphysical position means one that defines the first division of
reality into subject and objects. Pirsig deployed
All
Please cease the party political broadcast - this forum is for the
discussion of Robert Pirsigs MoQ.
If you want to discuss the U.S. election results or how similar Hitler
is to some other person please go to an appropriate forum. moq_discuss
is not that forum.
Horse
--
Without
[Platt]
What is the first division of critical thinking?.
[Arlo]
Critical thinking is not a metaphysics.
[Platt]
Rationalize the results any way you want.
[Arlo]
No rationalization needed, only an understanding of history, and a simple on a
that.
I understand how broader perspectives
On 3 Nov 2010 at 19:36, ARLO J BENSINGER JR wrote:
[Platt]
What is the first division of critical thinking?.
[Arlo]
Critical thinking is not a metaphysics.
{Platt}
I knew you would duck the question.
[Platt]
Rationalize the results any way you want.
[Arlo]
No rationalization needed, only
[Platt had asked]
What is the first division of critical thinking?.
[Arlo]
Critical thinking is not a metaphysics.
[Platt]
I knew you would duck the question.
[Arlo]
What duck? Its a straightforward, and correct, answer. Critical thinking is
neither SOM nor MOQ nor any metaphysics. It is a
[dmb]
In the larger context of these remarks, Pirsig is saying that the history of
the 20th century can best be understood as a conflict between social and
intellectual values. In this particular passage, he is saying that
ANTI-INTELLECTUALISM is the key to understanding fascism in general and
Hi Horse,
My apologies, I responded to dmb's intrusion before I read this one. Won't
happen again.
Mark
On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 1:45 PM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
All
Please cease the party political broadcast - this forum is for the
discussion of Robert Pirsigs MoQ.
If you want
Hi Arlo,
[Arlo]
What is common knowledge is not what you say above, but that the NSP was a
Volk movement, holding its early meetings in beer halls and appealing to
those who felt downtrodden because of global or multicultural influences
on
the superior German people.
From Wikipedia (which, by
[Mark]
I find this interesting as it relates to today's politics. Would you say that
those that follow Obama can be described by the Wiki paragraph above?
[Arlo]
I think it (lower middle-class farmers, public servants, teachers, small
businessmen) paints a broad picture that transcends the
Interesting how in a forum inspired by the Great Robert Pirsig, there would
be closed mindedness to new methods for describing Quality.
I have tried analogies from physics, from chemistry, from biology, from
sports, from Tao, from Buddhism, from Vedic thought, from mathematics. I
have expounded
p.s. You wrote The Tao is unchangeable in the end, swinging back and
forth. I thought that the The Tao that can be spoken of is not the real
Tao.
On Oct 27, 2010, at 3:49 AM, MarshaV wrote:
Mark,
You surprise me. It sounds like you're going to wait for the Great White
Hi Marsha,
Yes, the pitfalls of grammar and semantics. Unchangeable is an analogy
which has meaning. It also appeals to common sense. Taoism was perhaps
formally labeled as a philosophy around the time of Buddhism, but its roots
(as all other religions) are of course much earlier, and a
Andre:
Marsha and others on this MD, can we please reduce dragging the full
body of prior conversational posts to an absolute minimum as this does
take up a large amount of space which is only distracting and very
annoying. Please be very specific about those parts to which you respond
and
Hi Marsha,
That is exactly what I do every morning. How did it get on youtube? Where
are the hidden cameras?
Mark
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 10:19 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IgCrI4Za-f8feature=related
On Oct 27, 2010, at 1:08 PM, 118 wrote:
No, no
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSig4DxU_Mfeature=related
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Rumi is one of my heros. I like to listen to translations of his stuff
while spinning
On Wed, Oct 27, 2010 at 11:21 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UjSig4DxU_Mfeature=related
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Listinfo, Unsubscribing etc.
Seems like a cue for reasonable request.
Folks
Please cut the body of posts to include only those parts that are
relevant. There have been a few post recently that have been one or two
lines in reply and a huge amount of extra data that is either entirely
relevant or unnecessary.
I have made
There is some discussion on the use of the subject-object analogy in MOQ
discuss, and the attributes of Value to such an analogy. This bears inquiry
as it could also be interpreted that such an analogy is at the heart of many
religions. This SO divide brings out the search for the true
Hi Mark,
Why wait for some scientific future to come true when there is an
immediate need. There is this twenty-five hundred-year-old
tradition that has been working on just such a science of mind.
From what little I understand they use both rationality and special
introspective techniques.
Hi Marsha,
I'll get to that book when I find it in the library, sounds interesting. If
one were to divide metaphysics into the contemplation of the subjective and
contemplation of the objective, I would state that the pendulum has swung
very far into the objective. The recent rise of esoteric
Hi Marsha,
Thanks for asking, I ended up cooking breakfast for dinner an it was a hit!
My own personal ihop. Yes, I like Laing. I sometimes go to a poetry
reading in the spiritual hills of Ojai nearby. It's fun because we
contribute and get positive feedback, its at night with a campfire and
Hi Mark,
So perfect is your metaphor that it set my heart to laughing. Who was it
who held up the flower to the Buddha. Or how was it that without green
all became shimmering light. I thought quotes of sawdust were all that
remained but you have shown me that biophysics has its answers.
Hey Marsha,
Does this sound familiar to you (him and her are interchangeable)? Cheers,
Mark
There must be something the matter with him
because he would not be acting as he does
unless there was
therefore he is acting as he is
because there is something the matter with him
He does not
Hi Mark,
Wonderful! I have KNOTS packed away somewhere, and
have forgotten hows insightful was Laing. I bet you are
a good dancer...
Who are you cooking for? I have a cousin coming to visit
from Michigan next week so I just assembled two small
lasagnas. I was once an excellent cook,
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