Re: [Mpls] Counting crowds - StarTribune coverage

2003-03-27 Thread gemgram
Mr. Mann, I have a couple of question.

Who really cares what the count is? On either side

What possible difference could it make?

You should possibly watch more television.  The war IS going on.  The polls
conducted by even the liberal media indicate that a majority of Americans
support that war.  If you think Bush is going to slow down or stop this war
with his belief that his political future and place in history are at stake
you are indeed foolishly dreaming. And if you think a few more people either
way will matter, it is not dreaming but hallucinating.

I know in the frustration of caring so much, and being powerless to change
things, one sometimes resorts to the minutia of well there are more of us
than there is of you, and well justice is on our side.  Really though, no
one cares on either side of the issue.

The questioning of the liberal StarTribune for being on the Establishment
side, or the side of Bush, is as ridiculous a statement as could possibly be
made.  Questioning liberal Steve Brandt is almost, but not quite, as
ridiculous.  These are your chief allies, why try to put their words into
disrepute?  If you alienate your friends in the media, who will be left?
Fox?

Minneapolis should arrest enough people and fine them to pay for any police
service at any demonstration.  This includes both sides! Or require a bond
to be filed before giving a permit for the demonstration.  If there are
demonstrations that get out of hand and disorderly then the costs should be
taken from the bond. Those who give more than lip service to their cause
will not mind paying the fines or doing the time.  I do not remember taking
part in any civil unrest, (and I have a few), where I was not more than
willing to pay that price. Such a test would sort of weed out the ones who
are doing it for fashion and fun from the ones who truly care. I do not care
to pay for fashion and fun on either side.

As someone who was there at the Capital on Saturday I can report that there
was a very large crowd, that was somewhere above 15,000.  I personally
walked among the different people.  Your assertions that most were not there
just to support the troops, but were Pro America's efforts in Iraq, are
absolutely correct.  Also, it was to a large extent a Republican political
coup.  The Democrats, (like myself), did feel out of place at times, though
there were many of us.

Another couple of pertinent observations after watching some of the other
anti-war demonstrations:
1) There were almost no police present at the Pro demonstration; (I hear
they were covering an anti-war demonstration at the same time). The crowd
was incredibly well mannered and considerate. They even picked up any and
all litter after the demonstration.
2) The pro-military demonstrators could seriously use some help with chants
and songs.  They are about as exciting as oatmeal with their USA, USA
chants.  I have been to church meetings with more action and acting out
(particularly the washed in the blood variety when they get the spirit of
Jesus).

Perhaps the Anti group could help the Pros, because they seem really
good at it. So Mr. Mann you can brag about that, you certainly have more fun
people at your demonstrations.  If Steve Brandt says the Pro demonstration
was anywhere near as fun as the Anti demonstration, even I will be
challenging his veracity.  Until that time I think Steve Brandt deserves an
apology from you, and perhaps a thanks from others of us for your reporting
accurately.

Jim Graham,
Ventura Village


If you would not be forgotten,
as soon as you are dead and rotten,
either write things worth reading,
or do things worth the writing.
  - Benjamin Franklin


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Re: [Mpls] Counting crowds - StarTribune coverage

2003-03-27 Thread Gypsycurse7
In a message dated 3/27/2003 12:12:11 PM Central Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 I know in the frustration of caring so much, and being powerless to change
  things, one sometimes resorts to the minutia of well there are more of us
  than there is of you, and well justice is on our side.  Really though, 
no
  one cares on either side of the issue.
  
Jim

If no one cares, why has there been a systematic and persistent effort over 
the years (and by all the corporate media, not just the Star Tribune) to 
either not report on antiwar actions or marginalize and diminish them as much 
as possible, while on the other hand, inflating and building up the pro war 
side? Considering that virtually all the media and the government controls 
the political debate in this country, the only voice that the antiwar side 
has is what we can mobilize in the streets. The pro war types don't have to 
demonstrate because their point of view  is all that is ever heard or 
published. I'm sure that they and they and their sponsors (the GOP and the 
mass media conglomerate Open Channel Communications which owns WLOL, Q108 and 
Cities 97 among other radio stations) are pissed that the other side has 
managed to make itself heard despite the media blockade. That is why they are 
forced to put on these Nuremberg style rallies in response (that are anything 
but spontaneous). And if you think that is harsh, what about the violent 
booing that occurred when a Muslim woman attempted to read the Koran to the 
crowd?

Your suggestion of billing demonstrators is not only a violation of the first 
amendment (we still have a first amendment despite the best efforts of your 
pals at the Capitol). Since cops attack and harass antiwar demonstrators far 
more frequently than the other  side it disproportionately affect them. But 
that's the whole point, isn't it?

Linda Mann
Kingfield

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RE: [Mpls] Counting crowds - StarTribune coverage

2003-03-27 Thread Michael Hohmann
Linda Mann, referring I think to the 'support the troops' rally at the
Capitol last week:

 And if you think that is harsh, what about the violent
 booing that occurred when a Muslim woman attempted to read the
 Koran to the
 crowd?

She was not booed for quoting from the Koran.  She began with a prayer and
discussed issues of common humanity, similarities between religions, etc.,
and was well received.  All went well...  Then, she began to lecture the
crowd on America's need to re-evaluate it's role in the world in terms of
foreign policy, etc.  This is what brought the boos.  A slight
clarification-- alas, the devil's in the details.

It was a LARGE crowd, with little tolerance/respect/concern displayed for
the esoteric nuances of world religion and a common humanity-- at least not
while our troops are fighting in Iraq.  Remember, it was a 'support the
troops' rally!

What type reception would an American Christian get proselytizing, mixing
religion and politics, and lecturing a crowd of 15,000 in Baghdad?

Michael Hohmann
Linden Hills


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