Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn wrote: Thank you all - I do have this information already. The question is: what to do with it? Write the guy a letter? I've talked to him in person and he was rather surly... Hi Connie: The link provided outlines the business licensing guidelines by which the Minneapolis Business Licensing division reviews a licensed property for license renewal (bottom of email). When individuals are loitering, call the MPD and have calls documented. If vehicles are loitering, get license plate numbers (make and color would help). If you purchase food, get a receipt. If it is bad, return it for a refund, even a candy bar. In addition, state law requires that all groceries be inspected once per year. Contact Minneapolis Environmental Health (612-673-2170) and report bad food, keep the food and receipt if returning it is unsuccessful, make sure to request that it be logged as a complaint. Provide the food to the environmental health specialist when they contact you about your complaint. Request a copy of the history of inspections at the market, this is available for a few cents per copy (0.25 per page, I think) from the Environmental Health Division. Contact the neighbors and local businesses about signing a petition and provide it to the Council Member and the owner of the business with the requests and consequences clearly stated. http://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crime-prevention/docs/LicBusReq.pdfhttp://www.ci.minneapolis.mn.us/police/crime-prevention/docs/LicBusReq.pdf Laura Huseby Field-Regina REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Connie, The owner is going to do what is in the economic interest of that owner. You and your neighbors have to make it more costly for that owner than the profits from the paraphernalia sales and the bags of chips the users and dealers buy. Clearly that person is interested in that market share he has and does not want to lose it. The best way to get immediate action is a campaign of calls to the health inspectors, plus an action to challenge their license to sell certain things such as Tobacco. The City must renew these licenses each year, but you can start an action to remove it early. That is a good time to get action. Also notifying the owner of these pending actions. Take pictures when possible of the illegal activities. Especially take pictures of the worst of the criminals and give them to the Third Precinct with a request to Watch these dealers closely. Hey, photo safaris are fun. If one of the criminals threatens you immediately leave the area and return with a police officer and have the person arrested for the threat. Have neighbors visit the store as often as possible (with cell phones in hand) and call EVERY problem in. Remember he or she who calls the most gets the most police under Code Four. Document, document, document!!! Then call, call, call! Organize a neighborhood call system where neighbors make three or more phone calls for every incident witnessed. Call 911 first. Then call 673-2206, then 673-2209, then call the Chief of Police, then call the Mayor's office. The last two probably will not get you anyone, but several determined neighbors can tie up those phone lines until there is a demand for action. The more documented calls to that business location the more likely for the City Council Committee to call that license into question. Perhaps your Council Member can help you. NO, - that was not a joke. If that Council Member is ineffectual, or has legal concerns of his own, then contact the Council Member across the street. After all the criminal activities that may emanate from that business does cross Lake Street. Also call the Council Member running against your Council Member. A little competition among three CM's attempting to show they are the most helpful for your neighbors is not a bad start. I think the Owner being aware that you and your neighbors fully intend to follow up on this campaign will change their surliness to Please! How can we work together? Also the County Attorney (call Andy LaFever) being contacted about the possibility of starting a civil action against the property owner because of it being a nuisance property will likely be a severe wakeup call for the owner. Sending the property owner a copy of the disorderly house law and CC ing a copy to the County and City Attorneys informing that owner that this is notice of such is also an eye opener. Amy is running for Senate, and that pack down town is running for office. Use that, or you might wait three more years for action. Remember, we only get nine or ten months of energetic service from our Council and Mayor every four years and that time IS now. Don't waste it! Jim Graham, Ventura Village, Sixth Ward We can only be what we give ourselves the power to be - A Cherokee Feast of Days The people are the only sure reliance for the preservation of our liberty. - Thomas Jefferson REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Earlier this year, my relative who lives in a nice 'burb' saw a toy gun for sale at the local supermarket. They removed one of the packages from the shelf and spoke with the management about how they felt about the very real looking toy gun, and would management be able to tell the difference between this toy and a real gun? They assured the manager that they would speak to neighbors and the community about the 'toy' for sale. They went home and wrote a letter to the local paper and it was published in the letter to the editor column the next week. The supermarket management replied to the paper after the letter that they had removed the toy from the shelf and apologized for offending anyone. Seems to me that if you want that corner store to stop the sale of something the community finds dangerous, potentially detrimental to the community, etc... Tell them! Gather signatures from the neighborhood on a petition. Write a letter to the local paper about your concerns. Power to the people to make change!! Laura Huseby Field-Regina - Original Message - From: Barbara Licknessmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Leurquin, Ronaldmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ; mpls@mnforum.orgmailto:mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Friday, September 16, 2005 11:42 PM Subject: RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store It is actually illegal to sell drug paraphenalia in Mpls. If you go into Electric Fetus where they sell tobacco smoking products and mention that you might use that product to consume an illicit drug the employees in the store have been instructed not to sell them to you. My neice used to work at the Fetus, that is how I know about it. The drug paraphenalia sold in the corner stores are not marketed as crack pipes. They are marketed for use with tobacco or for other uses. They could not sell them if they marketed them directly as drug paraphenalia. Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/ruleshttp://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.htmlhttp://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteracthttp://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.orgmailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mplshttp://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
These corner shops, at least the most egregiously hood-esque, cannot be compared to Electric Fetus or any other store which relies on a clientele that come from more than a couple blocks away and exercise selective purchasing such that the store needs to market one thing or another. The Park Lake grocery is not marketing their stuff as tobacco related, I am 100% sure. The reason this store gets business is because dealers and users find the corner a good meeting place, and if they need a pipe or whatever to use the products they're exchanging, why the store is conveniently right there. If it weren't for the crack trade on this corner I don't think the store would be in business. (And there's another one directly across the street with even less stuff on the shelves!) Their groceries are overpriced and of dubious age and origin. My husband bought a candy bar there once and it was so old it tasted like plastic... Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn --- Barbara Lickness [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It is actually illegal to sell drug paraphenalia in Mpls. If you go into Electric Fetus where they sell tobacco smoking products and mention that you might use that product to consume an illicit drug the employees in the store have been instructed not to sell them to you. My neice used to work at the Fetus, that is how I know about it. The drug paraphenalia sold in the corner stores are not marketed as crack pipes. They are marketed for use with tobacco or for other uses. They could not sell them if they marketed them directly as drug paraphenalia. Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Constance Nompelis wrote: The Park Lake grocery is not marketing their stuff as tobacco related, I am 100% sure. I've peeped these guys myself. They aren't just selling drugs, they're selling the works. That means, they sell the drugs with the pipe or pipette or whatever and matches so that the buyer has everything he/she needs to light up and go whackadoodle. The dealers have taken over both corner stores and the gas station, which is leased from the owner by the Park and Lake Grocery. There are actually people who use the Park and Lake Grocery for legitimate purposes. My household members buy cigs and soda pop there on occasion, though they would rather plan ahead and not have to walk in there. I walked in there once and the guy on duty was wearing a six shooter that would have put John Wayne to shame! Haven't been back since. Who wants to get caught in the cross fire should something go down? My father taught us very early in life how to tell if a corner store is legit. If there is dust on the twinkies, hostess cupcakes, candy bars, and bread, groceries is the cover story. If the sell by date on the milk is less than a week, same thing. Back in the day it meant either a hand book or running numbers. (My father was more creative. He had a ladder, paint can, drop cloth, and paint brush over in the corner--he was a house painter, of course. Listed in the phone book that way. If anyone called for a quote, he'd give them some astronomical price figure so they wouldn't call back.) Now it's crack, heroine (which is rife on Lake St. at the moment, I understand), meth, etc. The other grocery is a halal, which means it sells the muslim equivalent of kosher foods. The gas station is closed while the repaving of Lake St. continues around it, but guys were in there and I overheard them talking about the works before it shut down. The only legit guy on that corner is the car wash. Those dealers are not just at Park and Lake. They're part of the same bunch that works Columbus and Lake and Chicago Lake. Hence the firebombing, arson fires, shootings, knife and fist fights, and shots fired. WizardMarks, Central Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Alcohol accounts is directly or indirectly the cause of 50% of all violent crime in America. Yet it is legal and the prohibition movement for it obviously failed ( though parts of Texas still have it banned). There is no more abused substance in America than alcohol. Tobacco is a deadly product that we have expunged from our bars due to its negative effects on users, 2nd hand smokers, and employees. Marijuana is illegal - but its effects on crime (apart from using it) are negligable. It may support gangs, but users most likely have less ambition to go out and do something crazy. Users probably have a greater impact on the snack food industry than any other single drug. Crack - meth - all the rest basically I would group in a category of foolish drugs to use. But if one examines the Netherlands - it is probably safer to have certain drugs used under the supervision of others - and sold cleanly and if they do not undermine the environment ( as Meth producers do). The drug war has spiraled exponentially in price since its innauguration under the Nixon administration. Prior to 9-11, the biggest war fought by the US ARMY. The US is still subsidizing the mass destruction of Columbian crops of Coca( destroying their environment), while not finding a solution to our home-grown addiction. If we were to legalize many of the substances - we would see the benefits of being a dealer diminish. I want to see the crackheads of my street - and keeping it illegal is not helping them. If you control the substance - you can also push for users to get some assistance in quitting. ( we ALREADY do that with Tobacco ) You can also diminish the appeal if there is complete information about each of these drugs where they are sold. Certain drugs like Meth could never be sold - but when you buy your pot you could see a big sign near the counter explaining why. For those who think the war should go on - at LEAST support legislation that will give the drug Bupe ( buprenorphine ) unlimited usage. This single drug allows addicts the ability to quit using the harshest of drugs like crack. It also does not have addictive qualities of methadone. It should be given out much more freely than methadone - but it isn't. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/bupe.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine But if you think that NOT selling crack pipes and other paraphenelia will diminish the sales of drugs - you are either delusional or smoking something ( pun intended). -- The difference between truth and fiction: fiction has to make sense - Mark Twain AIM: Confuzid Yahoo: KevinChavis Phone: 612-597-3559 Address: 2011 Third Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55404-2681 Iraq Address: 793 MP BN / CO A 1-194 AR / OPS Camp Anaconda APO AE 09391 Blog: http://www.livejournal.com/Chavis2020 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution or copying is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient(s), please contact the sender by replying to this e-mail and destroy/delete all copies of this e-mail message REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Alcohol accounts is directly or indirectly the cause of 50% of all violent crime in America. Yet it is legal and the prohibition movement for it obviously failed ( though parts of Texas still have it banned). There is no more abused substance in America than alcohol. Tobacco is a deadly product that we have expunged from our bars due to its negative effects on users, 2nd hand smokers, and employees. Marijuana is illegal - but its effects on crime (apart from using it) are negligable. It may support gangs, but users most likely have less ambition to go out and do something crazy. Users probably have a greater impact on the snack food industry than any other single drug. Crack - meth - all the rest basically I would group in a category of foolish drugs to use. But if one examines the Netherlands - it is probably safer to have certain drugs used under the supervision of others - and sold cleanly and if they do not undermine the environment ( as Meth producers do). The drug war has spiraled exponentially in price since its innauguration under the Nixon administration. Prior to 9-11, the biggest war fought by the US ARMY. The US is still subsidizing the mass destruction of Columbian crops of Coca( destroying their environment), while not finding a solution to our home-grown addiction. If we were to legalize many of the substances - we would see the benefits of being a dealer diminish. I want to see the crackheads of my street - and keeping it illegal is not helping them. If you control the substance - you can also push for users to get some assistance in quitting. ( we ALREADY do that with Tobacco ) You can also diminish the appeal if there is complete information about each of these drugs where they are sold. Certain drugs like Meth could never be sold - but when you buy your pot you could see a big sign near the counter explaining why. For those who think the war should go on - at LEAST support legislation that will give the drug Bupe ( buprenorphine ) unlimited usage. This single drug allows addicts the ability to quit using the harshest of drugs like crack. It also does not have addictive qualities of methadone. It should be given out much more freely than methadone - but it isn't. http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.04/bupe.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buprenorphine But if you think that NOT selling crack pipes and other paraphenelia will diminish the sales of drugs - you are either delusional or smoking something ( pun intended). -- The difference between truth and fiction: fiction has to make sense - Mark Twain AIM: Confuzid Yahoo: KevinChavis Phone: 612-597-3559 Address: 2011 Third Avenue South Minneapolis, MN 55404-2681 Iraq Address: 793 MP BN / CO A 1-194 AR / OPS Camp Anaconda APO AE 09391 Blog: http://www.livejournal.com/Chavis2020 Confidentiality Notice: This e-mail message is for the sole use of the intended recipient(s) and may contain confidential and privileged information. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, distribution or copying is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient(s), please contact the sender by replying to this e-mail and destroy/delete all copies of this e-mail message REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Any idea who owns there properties on Lake and Park? Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Thank you all - I do have this information already. The question is: what to do with it? Write the guy a letter? I've talked to him in person and he was rather surly... Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn --- Scott Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: After some trolling around on Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=the+Park+and+Lake+Grocery+Minneapolis,+MN+55407ll=44.948402,-93.265059spn=0.049234,0.060013t=hnum=10start=0hl=en I discovered that the store in guestion: Lake and Park Grocery (612) 822-0184 700 E Lake St Minneapolis, MN 55407 Brings up this information at the Hennepin Cty property tax site: http://www2.co.hennepin.mn.us/pins/pidresult.jsp?pid=3502924330092 MALAKEH NAZZAL 704 LAKE ST E MPLS MN 55407 Barbara Lickness wrote: Any idea who owns there properties on Lake and Park? Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls -- Scott Moore - 612.791.2333 Happy Accident Productions, LLC REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Hello list, It has been brought to my attention by a friend who recently bought a corner hood store, that one of the best-selling items is a product known as roses which is a glass tube used for smoking crack. This product retails for $2.50. (Though stores purchase them wholesale for 13 cents each.) In addition, for the wealthier addict, many stores also carry glass pipes for $9.99. I fail to see what legal use these products could have, since I'm pretty sure you can't comfortably smoke tobacco from them, and who would want to anyway...? So this is yet another bothersome trait of the so-called hood stores which dot the landscape of Phillips, North Minneapolis and other locales, and I wonder what people think about it? I have emailed my house representative on this subject plan to follow up on the issue because I find it absolutely offensive that these stores can participate in the culture of crack which is so integral to the perpetuation of violence and hopelessness in my community. In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn (Live in WP) __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Some of the hood stores also sell small scales (for weighing) and jewelry bags for distributing $5 bags of pot behind the counter. dennis plante From: Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mpls@mnforum.org Subject: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store Date: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 10:55:04 -0700 (PDT) Hello list, It has been brought to my attention by a friend who recently bought a corner hood store, that one of the best-selling items is a product known as roses which is a glass tube used for smoking crack. This product retails for $2.50. (Though stores purchase them wholesale for 13 cents each.) In addition, for the wealthier addict, many stores also carry glass pipes for $9.99. I fail to see what legal use these products could have, since I'm pretty sure you can't comfortably smoke tobacco from them, and who would want to anyway...? So this is yet another bothersome trait of the so-called hood stores which dot the landscape of Phillips, North Minneapolis and other locales, and I wonder what people think about it? I have emailed my house representative on this subject plan to follow up on the issue because I find it absolutely offensive that these stores can participate in the culture of crack which is so integral to the perpetuation of violence and hopelessness in my community. In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? Connie Nompelis West Phillips Powderhorn (Live in WP) __ Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005 http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
It has been brought to my attention by a friend who recently bought a corner hood store, that one of the best-selling items is a product known as roses which is a glass tube used for smoking crack. This product retails for $2.50. (Though stores purchase them wholesale for 13 cents each.) and while that is legal to sell, they are restricting and or banning the sale of sudafed, which actually has a very common legal use. John Harris webber-camden REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Nope, as my insulin taking Mother found out when visiting here last year. She could get her insulin refilled, but her prescription for the syringes had run out so she could not get the very tool needed to take the insulin the pharmacy sold her. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Constance wrote: In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
I don't understand what the problem is selling a pipe or such. It's not causing people to go out buy drugs and smoke them. If someone wants to use crack they're going to find a way to do it whether it is with tin foil and a straw or with a light bulb. Now if you could buy crack at your local neighborhood store that might be something to take issue with. I don't think hiding paraphernalia is going to lessen the use of crack. It's not addressing the actual issue of drug use. Also, it's not the same as restricting the sale of sudafed (or at least tracking its sale) because that is used to make the actual illegal substance. And you can still easily buy it, it's you can't buy massive quantities of it all at once. Matthew Philip The Wedge -Original Message- From: Leurquin, Ronald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:16:41 -0400 Subject: RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store Nope, as my insulin taking Mother found out when visiting here last year. She could get her insulin refilled, but her prescription for the syringes had run out so she could not get the very tool needed to take the insulin the pharmacy sold her. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Constance wrote: In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Restricting the sale of Sudafed is an effort to curb drug use by making production harder. Why not apply the curb to the paraphernalia used to take the drugs too? Sudafed access affects everyone, good or evil. Crack pipe access only affects the crack users. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Matthew wrote: I don't understand what the problem is selling a pipe or such. It's not causing people to go out buy drugs and smoke them. If someone wants to use crack they're going to find a way to do it whether it is with tin foil and a straw or with a light bulb. Now if you could buy crack at your local neighborhood store that might be something to take issue with. I don't think hiding paraphernalia is going to lessen the use of crack. It's not addressing the actual issue of drug use. Also, it's not the same as restricting the sale of sudafed (or at least tracking its sale) because that is used to make the actual illegal substance. And you can still easily buy it, it's you can't buy massive quantities of it all at once. REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Having crack pipes in these corner stores is one of the ways in which the owners essentially support the drug dealers and crackheads. Another way is by allowing them to congregate out in front of the stores. There have been several shootings around Lake and Park recently... my realtor actually witnessed a driveby on that very intersection when he was coming to my house. Why was the person shooting there? Most likely because one of the idiots milling around outside of the store was some competition to his business... This lawlessness has to stop. I am fed up with the violence and everyone knows that a big part of the problem is drugs and the huge sums of money involved. In a perfect world I would be libertarian and say let people do what they want to their own bodies... but this world ain't perfect and the drug dealers are shooting each other over turf and $$$ and the crack pipes, hood stores, and blase attitudes of stores owners are contributing to the madness. Connie Nompelis West Phillips and Powderhorn --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't understand what the problem is selling a pipe or such. It's not causing people to go out buy drugs and smoke them. If someone wants to use crack they're going to find a way to do it whether it is with tin foil and a straw or with a light bulb. Now if you could buy crack at your local neighborhood store that might be something to take issue with. I don't think hiding paraphernalia is going to lessen the use of crack. It's not addressing the actual issue of drug use. Also, it's not the same as restricting the sale of sudafed (or at least tracking its sale) because that is used to make the actual illegal substance. And you can still easily buy it, it's you can't buy massive quantities of it all at once. Matthew Philip The Wedge -Original Message- From: Leurquin, Ronald [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED]; mpls@mnforum.org Sent: Fri, 16 Sep 2005 15:16:41 -0400 Subject: RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store Nope, as my insulin taking Mother found out when visiting here last year. She could get her insulin refilled, but her prescription for the syringes had run out so she could not get the very tool needed to take the insulin the pharmacy sold her. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East Constance wrote: In fact, now that I think about it, I am outraged. I mean, what's next, selling empty syringes? REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Leurquin, Ronald wrote: Restricting the sale of Sudafed is an effort to curb drug use by making production harder. Why not apply the curb to the paraphernalia used to take the drugs too? Sudafed access affects everyone, good or evil. Crack pipe access only affects the crack users. Ron Leurquin Nokomis East This is something I do not understand. Sudafed is made of tiny beads of drugs, only some of which are the ones used in making meth. Who sits around and separates all those little beads into the ones that work and the ones that don't? Or do they even separate them? Or is every dose of meth a dose of sudafed too? WizardMarks, Central REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
On 9/16/05, Constance Nompelis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a perfect world I would be libertarian and say let people do what they want to their own bodies... but this world ain't perfect and the drug dealers are shooting each other over turf and $$$ and the crack pipes, hood stores, and blase attitudes of stores owners are contributing to the madness. If the problem is drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, then banning crack pipes or other paraphernalia from corner stores isn't going to accomplish anything. Users and dealers aren't prevented or encouraged to use or sell drugs based on whether you can go into a store and buy a pipe, syringe, etc. There isn't anybody out there that is thinking, I would start doing drugs if only I could buy a pipe, but since I can't I won't! On the other hand, if that corner store sold the drugs themselves, then all the dealers would disappear, driven out of business by a higher quality and cheaper product. If the elimination of drug turf wars is the goal, then we should talk with our city and state leaders about ending this irrational War on Drugs. I haven't heard of too many shootings over tobacco and alcohol turf wars. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Nathan Writes: If the problem is drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, then banning crack pipes or other paraphernalia from corner stores isn't going to accomplish anything. Users and dealers aren't prevented or encouraged to use or sell drugs based on whether you can go into a store and buy a pipe, syringe, etc. There isn't anybody out there that is thinking, I would start doing drugs if only I could buy a pipe, but since I can't I won't! On the other hand, if that corner store sold the drugs themselves, then all the dealers would disappear, driven out of business by a higher quality and cheaper product. If the elimination of drug turf wars is the goal, then we should talk with our city and state leaders about ending this irrational War on Drugs. I haven't heard of too many shootings over tobacco and alcohol turf wars. Dennis Plante Responds: And how exactly would this solve the problem of disadvantage citizens earning a living illegally? Take away their income and my guess is they'fdmove-on to something equally illegal and just as damaging to society. dennis plante lind-bohanon REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Nathan Writes: If the problem is drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, then banning crack pipes or other paraphernalia from corner stores isn't going to accomplish anything. Users and dealers aren't prevented or encouraged to use or sell drugs based on whether you can go into a store and buy a pipe, syringe, etc. There isn't anybody out there that is thinking, I would start doing drugs if only I could buy a pipe, but since I can't I won't! Michelle Hill responds: It may not stop the behavior, but we should not allow any stores in the community to contibute to the behavior. The problem not only lies with drug dealers shooting each other and other people over turf and $$$, It involves any activity or action that contributes to the decline of neighborhoods and overall livability. Remember, our children often go to those corner store too. Booker Hodges has written many articles, in the Spokesman-Recorder, about corner stores, to no avail. They not only sell crack pipes, baggies and weighing scales, they sell cigars in which the young people replace with Marijuana, called a blunt. They also sell expired baby formula and bad meat, and allow people to sell stolen items outside and inside the stores. I often wonder how they stay in business, with all of the complaints they receive. I know for sure that my council person knows all about those stores and the problems they cause in the community. Yet, they continue to remain open and continue to add to the decline of the community. I choose to go the extra distance to CUB FOODS to do my shopping, even though some of their prices are not much better than the corner store. Michelle Hill Cleveland REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
On 9/16/05, Dennis Plante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Plante Responds: And how exactly would this solve the problem of disadvantage citizens earning a living illegally? Take away their income and my guess is they'fdmove-on to something equally illegal and just as damaging to society. Of course legalizing drugs wouldn't eliminate crime. Nothing can do that; as far as I know, there isn't a crime-free utopia somewhere on this planet. However, if you take away the selling of drugs, you take away a lot of gang activity. That doesn't mean that people who want to break the laws won't keep doing so. But they would probably be doing something else, like resorting to theft. Frankly, if there was a choice between stealing cars and getting into gun battles that kill innocent bystanders, I'll take the car stealing any day. What can reverse the decline of neighborhoods? Clearly, the current plan to simply throw users into jail doesn't cut it. What we are doing now is not working. This is also why I don't see how public safety can be a big issue in the upcoming elections, at least for mayor. Neither Rybak nor McLaughlin are proposing anything that will actually change the drug problem other than to perhaps nibble away at the edges. No new ideas at all. It seems pretty simple to me: if there aren't people demanding drugs from gang members, then there won't be any violent gang members to sell those drugs. Until somebody comes up with a good idea that eliminates the demand from the drug dealers, not much is going to change. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
You know what? I've had this conversation - (to legalize or not to legalize?) at many a cocktail party and upscale restaurant gathering... it's nice and philosophical but frankly I don't have the ear of the President or the Senate so it ain't changing in Minneapolis this week. I have learned that this academic discussion about the root of the problem (nat'l policy, poverty, race issues, etc.) is of very little assistance to the people living with gunfire and death and addiction and hoplessness around the corner... I really don't want to see this conversation degrade into the typical us-against-them-in-the-nice-hoods kind of debate, but I have to say that we can't afford to screw around with philosophy when it's not going to change anything about what's really going on at this moment. I say: let's get rid of the dang pipes for now, and I'll write a thousand letters to DC about drug policy tomorrow. Connie Nompelis Pretty agitated with kids running up and down my dangerous street in WEST PHILLIPS P.S. Booker has indeed brought this topic up before, and I followed his commentary with interest. He's got a lot of good points. I don't want to squelch business at all (I'm exceedingly pro-business in general) but I can't handle this violence anymore. Something's gotta give. --- Nathan Hunstad [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 9/16/05, Dennis Plante [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dennis Plante Responds: And how exactly would this solve the problem of disadvantage citizens earning a living illegally? Take away their income and my guess is they'fdmove-on to something equally illegal and just as damaging to society. Of course legalizing drugs wouldn't eliminate crime. Nothing can do that; as far as I know, there isn't a crime-free utopia somewhere on this planet. However, if you take away the selling of drugs, you take away a lot of gang activity. That doesn't mean that people who want to break the laws won't keep doing so. But they would probably be doing something else, like resorting to theft. Frankly, if there was a choice between stealing cars and getting into gun battles that kill innocent bystanders, I'll take the car stealing any day. What can reverse the decline of neighborhoods? Clearly, the current plan to simply throw users into jail doesn't cut it. What we are doing now is not working. This is also why I don't see how public safety can be a big issue in the upcoming elections, at least for mayor. Neither Rybak nor McLaughlin are proposing anything that will actually change the drug problem other than to perhaps nibble away at the edges. No new ideas at all. It seems pretty simple to me: if there aren't people demanding drugs from gang members, then there won't be any violent gang members to sell those drugs. Until somebody comes up with a good idea that eliminates the demand from the drug dealers, not much is going to change. -- Nathan Hunstad CARAG Minneapolis, MN PGP DH/DSS public key -- http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower/nhpubkey.txt Do you Gonzo?! http://www.angelfire.com/mn/freakpower REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
[Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store.....better answers
I'll concede that we're not going to take the profits (and the killing) out of the illicit drug trade without getting the Feds on board, but until that happens, we have to do something. I'd like the list to consider a Force 5 Hurricane analogy; since the udder night, Dubya seems more than willing to spend hundreds of billions of dollars to save face after the failure of FEMA to act before and after Katrina hit, so Why not deal with a drug storm of much greater proportions? For a little perspective, the Office of National Drug Control Policy budget for this year is $12.2 billion. No state or local government entity deals specifically or entirely with drug crimes, but I would suspect a hypothetical line item to be an infinitesimally small fraction of what NDCP spends. Compare it to what we spend on Homeland Security, $40.2 billion for '05, let alone the unfunded mandates for state and local governments, and what is actually spent on a problem that is directly connected with terrorism seems an obscenely small amount. So what do we do as a municipality short of legalizing or decriminalizing drugs? Regulating or outlawing drug paraphernalia is a pitifully small thing to do as some list contributors have pointed out. I've half jokingly suggested vice asylums not so long ago and I believe Wizard Marks suggested some sort of Devil's Island at Fort Ripley a few weeks back, and I think one way of focusing the Feds on the problem might be free drug zones (as opposed to drug free zones). Convicted drug offenders in the Metro should be given a choice of entering the conventional corrections system or move to Drug Town, and all the seized drugs from evidence rooms or the partipating cities and counties in the Metro should go with them. No segregation either: whether you're a poor minority offender from the inner city or a rich or middle class offender from the 'burbs, you have the same choice. We should focus on treatment and let the Feds go to Drug Town to do the lion's share of drug enforcement on their own. My preference would be to have it somewheres in Anoka or Dakota Counties, but I'm open to other possible sites. If Dubya can rebuild New Orleans for several billion dollars, I think we can build a Drug Town or two for a few million, fence them, perhaps even mine their perimeters, and wait for a US Federal Government that can give up the present ineffective approach to what is essentially an economic and public health problem. Bill Kahn not certain if I'm joking in Prospect Park REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
Re: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
Many times I have heard people on this list say the drug problems we are currently experiencing on the streets of a select group of neighborhoods in Mpls. would all just go away if drugs were legalized. You are absolutely correct. However, they aren't legal and as a result streets like mine have been the supermarkets for them. With all due respect it feels almost condescending to hear people from neighborhoods that do not experience this travesty to say if they were legal the problem would go away. While we are waiting for the wisdom of the many people who do not live with this problem in their daily lives to see the light and push for national legislative changes to our archaic drug laws, I choose not to tolerate the violence and livability issues caused by out of control crack, heroine or meth addicts that terrorize our streets. I also view it as a big slap in the face and counterproductive disconnect when the corner store by my house sells crack pipes or other drug paraphenalia. I know it's not going to encourage or discourage drug use. But, why make it so dang convenient for them? I am irritated that the store owner would be that blatant about their lack of concern for the neighborhood they are doing business in. None of the dozen or more owners of the corner store by my house live anywhere near this neighborhood. They leave here at night and go to the comfort of their home in the suburbs somewhere or in a neighborhood that doesn't contend with drug problems. My history with the corner store owners that sell drug paraphanelia is that in all likelihood they are also selling drugs under the counter, fencing stolen goods, running prostitutes, commiting EBT fraud and other livability crimes. I am not making a general statement about every corner store in Mpls. I am just stating that my personal experience with the store by my house has been that where there is smoke, there is fire. Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
RE: [Mpls] Crack pipes for sale at your local corner store
It is actually illegal to sell drug paraphenalia in Mpls. If you go into Electric Fetus where they sell tobacco smoking products and mention that you might use that product to consume an illicit drug the employees in the store have been instructed not to sell them to you. My neice used to work at the Fetus, that is how I know about it. The drug paraphenalia sold in the corner stores are not marketed as crack pipes. They are marketed for use with tobacco or for other uses. They could not sell them if they marketed them directly as drug paraphenalia. Barb Lickness Whittier Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has. -- Margaret Mead REMINDERS: 1. Be civil! Please read the NEW RULES at http://www.e-democracy.org/rules. If you think a member is in violation, contact the list manager at [EMAIL PROTECTED] before continuing it on the list. 2. Don't feed the troll! Ignore obvious flame-bait. For state and national discussions see: http://e-democracy.org/discuss.html For external forums, see: http://e-democracy.org/mninteract Minneapolis Issues Forum - A Civil City-focused Civic Discussion - Mn E-Democracy Post messages to: mailto:mpls@mnforum.org Subscribe, Un-subscribe, etc. at: http://e-democracy.org/mpls
