mmh, Affiliation: Meridian Audio Ltd?
-Message d'origine-
From: Vicki Melchior
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 2:21 PM
To: A discussion list for music-related DSP
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Dither video and articles
The following published double blind test contradicts the results of
It was just several times the same fading in/out noise at different levels,
just to see if you hear quieter things than I do, I thought you'd have
guessed that.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Cr7wjQ2EPub2I1aGExVmJCNzA/view?usp=sharing
(0dB, -36dB, -54dB, -66dB, -72dB, -78dB)
Here if I make
Hi Michael,
I know that you already understand this, and comment that this is for internal
calculations, but for the sake of anyone who might misinterpret your 32-bit vs
64-bit comment, I’ll point out that this is a situation of error feedback—the
resulting error is much greater than the
I SO agree with 4), that when it comes to recorded not synthesized (but
even synthesized in some cases actually - I've made additive synths and it's
a big CPU saver to avoid processing inaudible partials) audio, room noise is
so much above the levels we're debating, that it's a bit silly.
Yes, but note that in the case Michael is reporting, all filters have
double-precision coeffs and data storage. It is only when passing samples
between unit generators that the difference lies (either single or
double precision is used). Still, I believe that
there can be audible differences.
Hi there,
Just wanted to let everyone know that Superpowered's 64-bit library is,
like Frankenstein's monster, ALIVE!!! and kicking ass. :)
See here:
http://superpowered.com/superpowered-audio-engine-64-bit-arm-android-ios/
Also, we have a write-up of some of the DSP optimization methods we
Isn't it generally agreed that truncation noise is correlated with the signal?
“Is correlated”? No, but it can be.
First, if there is enough noise in the signal before truncation, then it’s
dithered by default—no correlation.
Second, if the signal is sufficiently complex, it seems, then there
This was done before John ffitch (I believe it was he) changed the
filter samples in even the single-precision version of Csound to use
double-precision. And I think this change may have been made as a
result of my report.
Regards,
Mike
-
So you hear all 6 too?
-Message d'origine-
From: Richard Dobson
Sent: Friday, February 06, 2015 4:10 PM
To: music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Dither video and articles
On 06/02/2015 14:21, Andrew Simper wrote:
Sorry, you said until, which is even more confusing.
Funny…you made me think of the event below, late last night, but I couldn’t
recall what I was thinking of when I got up this morning. Oh well, it will come
to me later maybe, I think...I take a little
break and pick up Tape Op magazine, which I had rescued form the trunk of my
car, from AES,
Dealing with the order/existence of MSB/LSB is per-hardware, I'm afraid.
There is only very little that's standard with MIDI, it mostly depends on
the manufacturer.
NRPNs aren't obscure, they're quite common out there. It's annoying to set
up a parser, but once you have one working, you can
Hi All,
I'm going to show some transfer curves of what I call scp biquad v1,
which is my first and simplest digital approximation of an s-domain
analog 2-pole resonant lowpass filter, using the following time domain
function:
y[n] = a0*x[n] + a1*x[n-1] - b1*y[n-1] - b2*y[n-2]
Some expressed
Nicely done, Peter and thanks for sharing.
I was the one who suggested to be super-clear and void any doubt in us
judging your results, because via email and with no paper published that
should be not ever an ultimate argument in the discussion. I never thought
that you could be cheating on your
The self dither argument is not as obvious as it may appear. To be effective
at dithering, the noise has to be at the right level of course but also should
be white and temporally constant. The noise floors present in music data
normally come from the self noise of the analog components used
Original Message
Subject: Re: [music-dsp] Dither video and articles
From: Vicki Melchior vmelch...@earthlink.net
Date: Fri, February 6, 2015 2:23 pm
To: A discussion list for music-related DSP music-dsp@music.columbia.edu
Sorry, you said until, which is even more confusing. There are
multiple points when I hear the noise until since it sounds like the
noise is modulated in amplitude by a sine like LFO for the entire
file, so the volume of the noise ramps up and down in a cyclic manner.
The last ramping I hear fades
On 04/02/2015, Alan Wolfe alan.wo...@gmail.com wrote:
Do you have a write up of this anywhere? I'd love to read more and have a
place to point people to for more info.
Also it would be neat to see how you extend this to higher dimensions, and
also your log2 calculation is quite intriguing (:
On 6 February 2015 at 17:32, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote:
Just out of curiosity, until which point do you hear the noise in this
little test (a 32bit float wav), starting from a bearable first part?
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B6Cr7wjQ2EPucjFCSUhGNkVRaUE/view?usp=sharing
I hear
Hi Kevin,
My name is Miguel Conradi. I'm telecom engineer specialized in DSP. I work
as embedded systems developer, and I did few plugins in Juce recently. I'm
not the most experienced guy in plugins development concretely, but I'm
experienced in C/C++ and matlab (and obviously in DSP). Could you
The following published double blind test contradicts the results of the old
Moran/Meyer publication in showing (a) that the differences between CD and
higher resolution sources is audible and (b) that failure to dither at the 16th
bit is also audible.
On 06/02/2015 14:21, Andrew Simper wrote:
Sorry, you said until, which is even more confusing. There are
multiple points when I hear the noise until since it sounds like the
noise is modulated in amplitude by a sine like LFO for the entire
file, so the volume of the noise ramps up and down in a
Mastering engineers can hear truncation error at the 24th bit but say it is
subtle and may require experience or training to pick up.
Quick observations:
1) The output step size of the lsb is full-scale / 2^24. If full-scale is 1V,
then step is 0.000596046447753906V, or 0.0596 microvolt
Isn't it generally agreed that truncation noise is correlated with the
signal?
The human ear is excellent at picking up on correlation, so a system
that introduces multiple correlated (noise) signals may reach a point
where it is perceptual, even if the starting point is a 24 bit signal.
I would
Thanks for the reference Vicki
What they are hearing is not noise or peaks sitting at the 24th
bit but rather the distortion that goes with truncation at 24b, and
it is said to have a characteristic coloration effect on sound. I'm
aware of an effort to show this with AB/X tests, hopefully it
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