On 11 February 2015 at 05:52, gwenhwyfaer gwenhwyf...@gmail.com wrote:
On 10/02/2015, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote:
Pretty easy to check the obvious difference between a pure low sawtooth, and
the same sawtooth with all partials starting at random phases.
Ah, this again? Good times.
Hi All,
Since I like to know who I am communicating with, I did an analysis on
the visitors who clicked on the links that I posted here. This should
represent a large part of the people who actively read this mailing
list.
My tracker registered a total of 133 visitors: 75 from Europe, 47 from
Didier,
I can hear hiss down at -72 dBFS while a 0 dBFS 440 hz sine wave is
playing. There is no compressor in my signal chain anywhere, I use an
RME FireFace UCX and have all gains to 0 dBFS and only adjust the
headhpone out gain. The FX % cpu on the soundcard is at 0 %, and I
even double
On 2/10/15 8:49 AM, Didier Dambrin wrote:
What are you talking about - why would phase not matter? It's
extremely important (well, phase relationship between neighboring
partials).
well, it's unlikely you'll be able to hear the difference between this:
x(t) = cos(wt) - 1/3*cos(3wt) +
Interestingly, I wasn't gonna suggest that a possible cause could have been
a compressor built-in the soundcard, because.. why would a soundcard even do
that..
However.. I've polled some people in our forum with this same test, and one
guy could hear it. But it turns out that he owns an X-Fi,
On 2/9/15 10:19 PM, Nigel Redmon wrote:
But it matters, because the whole point of dithering to 16bit depends on how
common that ability is.
Depends on how common? I’m not sure what qualifies for common, but if it’s 1 in
100, or 5 in 100, it’s still a no-brainer because it costs nothing,
What are you talking about - why would phase not matter? It's extremely
important (well, phase relationship between neighboring partials).
16 bits is just barely enough for high-quality audio.
So to you, that Pono player isn't snake oil?
Besides, if it had mattered so much, non-linear
I'm talking about simple initial phase offsets, nothing dynamic. It's an old
subject, you will find it back as ghost thone in this mailing list, with
audio examples.
I'll redo an audio demo if you insist, but simply randomizing the *initial*
(yes, nothing dynamic) phases of all partials of a
Of course 24bit isn't a bad idea for intermediate files, but 32bit float is
a better idea, even just because you don't have to normalize store gain
information that pretty much no app will read from the file. And since the
price of storage is negligible these days..
-Message
So to you, that Pono player isn't snake oil?
It's more the 192kHz sampling rate that renders the Pono player into snake
oil territory. The extra bits probably aren't getting you much, but the
ridiculous sampling rate can only *hurt* audio quality, while consuming
that much more battery and
On 2/10/15 1:30 PM, Didier Dambrin wrote:
Of course 24bit isn't a bad idea for intermediate files, but 32bit
float is a better idea, even just because you don't have to normalize
store gain information that pretty much no app will read from the
file. And since the price of storage is
Of course, a lot of visually different waveshapes sound the same, as soon as
the phase relationship between neighboring partials is shifted by the same
amount.
That doesn't mean it's always the case and I've once posted here examples of
how shifting the phase of 1 harmonic of a sawtooth
On 2/10/15 1:51 PM, Ethan Duni wrote:
So to you, that Pono player isn't snake oil?
It's more the 192kHz sampling rate that renders the Pono player into snake
oil territory. The extra bits probably aren't getting you much, but the
ridiculous sampling rate can only *hurt* audio quality, while
On 10/02/2015, Didier Dambrin di...@skynet.be wrote:
Pretty easy to check the obvious difference between a pure low sawtooth, and
the same sawtooth with all partials starting at random phases.
Ah, this again? Good times. I remember playing. I made 7 sawtooth
waves with random (static) phases
The only comment in that page that actually tells the story is buried:
--
Different media, different master
I've run across a few articles and blog posts that declare the virtues
of 24 bit or 96/192kHz by comparing a CD to an audio DVD (or SACD) of
the 'same' recording. This
So you like the bar being raised, but not the way that Neil Young has
attempted?
Whether the higher resolution actually degrades the quality is a
topic up for future debate.
From the ponomusic webpage:
...and now, with the PonoPlayer, you can finally feel the master in all
its glory, in its
What I am interested in, regarding this discussion, is quite specific.
I make computer music using Csound, and usually using completely
synthesized sound, and so far only in stereo. Csound can run at any
sample rate, can output floating-point soundfiles, and can dither. My
sounds are not
I like the trend of releasing remastered material, where there is scope for
improved quality. Which isn't always, but there's an entire generation of
albums that were victims of the loudness wars, and various early work by
artists that hadn't access to quality mastering at the time, and so on,
why does higher-than-needed sample rate hurt audio quality?
might not be necessary, but how does it make it worse (excluding
the increased computational burden)?
The danger is that you are now including a bunch of out-of-band content in
your output signal, which can be transformed into in-band
Re:Pono, what about the DAC in the device? That could make an audible and real
difference. Also, there is undeniably more information in high res downloads,
if the original master was recorded to tape or to hi-res in Pro Tools. So, has
anyone ever considered the sample-level ‘phase’ effect
How do the crest factors of these different sawtooth waveforms compare?
I'd expect one with randomized phase to have a much lower crest factor.
Which is to say that I'd expect the in-phase sawtooth to activate a lot
more nonlinearity in the playback chain, which explains why that one is
easy to
Here's the guts of the Pono:
http://mikebeauchamp.com/2014/12/pono-player-teardown/
DAC is an ESS ES9018K2M
http://www.esstech.com/PDF/ES9018-2M%20PB%20Rev%200.8%20130619.pdf
32-bit - Wonder what the actual ENOB is...
Output driver is a discrete design.
Main MCU is apparently a TI OMAP
Andreas:
The hearing threshold apparently is at around 10dbSPL
The generally accepted hearing threshold is in fact around 0 dB SPL.
Around 3 kHz it is around - 6 dB SPL.
--
Best regards,
Goran Finnberg
The Mastering Room AB
Goteborg
Sweden
E-mail: master...@telia.com
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