Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Same here. Latency and the algo work together. Time outs or un-reachable peers are network issues. Paging Randy Bush. Get Outlook for iOS From: NANOG on behalf of John Gilmore Sent: Tuesday, August 8, 2023 17:01 To: Mel Beckman Cc:

Re: Last Mile ISP Quality Measurements

We are doing something similar with netpath in Solarwinds, but mainly using the stream URLs of some popular streaming services that we see commonly used (FuboTV, etc). Came in handy recently in tracking down customer complaints that ended up being a peering capacity issue further upstream. Tim

Last Mile ISP Quality Measurements

What are other last mile ISPs doing to measure the quality of their connections? We all know pinging various destinations. We also all know that pinging a destination doesn't necessarily tell you the whole quality story. I currently have Smokeping pulling the HTTPS for about 20 - 25 of the

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

> I was also speaking specifically about installing GPS antennas in > viable places, not using a facility-provided GPS or NTP service. Am I confused? Getting the time over a multi-gigabit Internet from a national time standard agency such as NIST (or your local country's equivalent)

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Go for it. I’m sure NTS’ complexity clocks lots of hours for expensive consultants :) Me, I’m sticking with GPS.) -mel via cell On Aug 8, 2023, at 11:34 AM, Rubens Kuhl wrote:  So little deployment that has 3500 occurrences according to shodan.io. With such few choices,

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Well, an iLEC CO is hardly a data center. Plus you have to be a CLEC to get in. I’ve built out CLEC spaces in many COs. They invariably connect via fiber to a CLEC core data center, where they invariably run their own GPS clocks. Plus they run rubidium clocks in the racks at the CO, so they can

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

So little deployment that has 3500 occurrences according to shodan.io. With such few choices, It should be hard to find suitable options. Rubens Em ter., 8 de ago. de 2023 13:02, Mel Beckman escreveu: > I’m familiar with NTS, which is pointedly not NTP. That’s like saying > “TCP port 80

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Frontier COs is the easiest example.No antennas and no time service. Yes, they provide BITS, but BITS isn't time. I was also speaking specifically about installing GPS antennas in viable places, not using a facility-provided GPS or NTP service. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing

Re: Changes to ARIN Online - Routing Security Dashboard - RPKI & IRR integration (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] New Features Added to ARIN Online)

Dear Mark, Thank you for sharing all the details in your previous email. For brevity I'm snipping most of your reply. On Tue, Aug 08, 2023 at 03:59:19PM +, Mark Kosters wrote: > Job Snijders wrote: > > > Would it not be advantageous to create at a minimum the 256 of the > > 'least-specific'

Spoofer Report for NANOG for Jul 2023

In response to feedback from operational security communities, CAIDA's source address validation measurement project (https://spoofer.caida.org) is automatically generating monthly reports of ASes originating prefixes in BGP for systems from which we received packets with a spoofed source address.

Re: Changes to ARIN Online - Routing Security Dashboard - RPKI & IRR integration (was: Fwd: [arin-announce] New Features Added to ARIN Online)

Hi Job Answers below starting with MK: On 8/7/23, 7:31 PM, "NANOG on behalf of Job Snijders via NANOG" mailto:arin@nanog.org> on behalf of nanog@nanog.org > wrote: - is the IRR state directly derived from the RPKI state? MK: No. This is all done in software.

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

I’m familiar with NTS, which is pointedly not NTP. That’s like saying “TCP port 80 can be made secure,: just use a VPN!” Perhaps when NTS is widely deployed it will be an option. As the RFC was only approved in 2020, that will probably take a decade. Or more. (I’m talking about you, IPv6 :)

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

I’d be interested in an example of a Colo that does NOT provide GPS-based NTP even if they don’t let tenants install their own. I’ve never, ever seen one. -mel On Aug 8, 2023, at 8:20 AM, Mike Hammett wrote:  My facility experience ranges from prohibited to infeasible. I must not be in the

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

On Tue, Aug 8, 2023 at 12:12 PM Mel Beckman wrote: > > Until the Internet NTP network can be made secure, no. Internet NTP can be made secure, it's called NTS. https://developers.cloudflare.com/time-services/nts/ describes it with links to the RFC, and describes one of the many NTP servers that

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

My facility experience ranges from prohibited to infeasible. I must not be in the right facilities. Yes, many radio platforms have GPS for timing. Some expose it for external time and timing purposes, some do not. Naturally, they do have a pretty good view of the sky. - Mike

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Until the Internet NTP network can be made secure, no. Do you have a citation for your Jersey event? I doubt GPS caused the problem, but I’d like to see the documentation. Using GPS for time sync is simple risk management: the risk of Internet NTP with known, well documented vulnerabilities

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

It works fine, and is an industry standard. you have to mount the GPS antenna near a window with sky visibility, or on the roof. Many point-to-point microwave radios have GPS built in to obtain accurate timing for transmission multiplexing. -mel On Aug 8, 2023, at 7:16 AM, Mike Hammett

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

"We use these exclusively in data centers" How well does GPS work inside the datacenter? - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mel Beckman" To: "Mark Tinka" Cc: nanog@nanog.org Sent:

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Mel Beckman wrote:- >It’s a problem that has received a lot of attention in both NTP and >aviation navigation circles. What is hard to defend against is total signal >suppression via high powered jamming. But that you can do with a >geographically diverse GPS NTP network. Whilst looking forward

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Forrest Christian (List Account) wrote: Depends on how synchronized you need to be. Sure. But, we should be assuming NTP is mostly enough. A rubidium oscillator or Chip Scale Atomic Clock is in the price range you quote. However, these can drift enough that you should occasionally

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Mel Beckman wrote: > To be useful, any atomic clocks you operate must be synchronized > to a Stratum Zero time source, such as GPS. Only initially. Precise time is crucial to a variety of economic activities around the world. Communication systems, electrical power grids, and financial

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Depends on how synchronized you need to be. In the context of running airgapped: A rubidium oscillator or Chip Scale Atomic Clock is in the price range you quote. However, these can drift enough that you should occasionally synchronize with a reference time source. This is to ensure continued

Re: NTP Sync Issue Across Tata (Europe)

Masataka, To be useful, any atomic clocks you operate must be synchronized to a Stratum Zero time source, such as GPS. Such clocks are useful when you need exceptional accuracy, such as for Building Integrated Timing Service (BITS), but unless they’re synchronized you can’t coordinate