Tom
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sured on Earth – may have to change" They don't even know the
difference between TAI and UTC.
--
Harlan Stenn
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Please excuse my brevity.
--
Harlan Stenn
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mention on
> https://www.ntp.org/ are no longer functioning.
>
> Like http://lists.ntp.org/ and http://support.ntp.org/.
>
> If anyone knows a way to get this fixed, please help.
>
> Thank you.
>
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quest in the first place?
And I just realized this is the NANOG list and not the NTP list, so I'm
happy to stop.
H
--
> Ragnar
>
>> On 17 Apr 2020, at 10:44, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>>
>> NTP uses UDP for time.
>>
>> I'm not sure what you're talking about.
>>
&g
NTP uses UDP for time.
I'm not sure what you're talking about.
H
On 4/17/20 1:32 AM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>
>
>> On 17 Apr 2020, at 01:28, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>>
>> I found this as an unsent draft - I hope I didn't send it before.
>>
>> On 3/30
this time pad it to NNN bytes so I can respond with the same sized
packet"?
> Ragnar
--
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http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
d your request again,
but this time pad it to NNN bytes so I can respond with the same sized
packet"?
> Ragnar
--
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On 3/30/2020 1:27 AM, Saku Ytti wrote:
> On Mon, 30 Mar 2020 at 11:15, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>
>> Please help me understand this.
>>
>> Exactly how bad is it if the query and response packets are of a
>> different size? Does it matter at 4 bytes? 32?
>
nse packets affect the
quality of time synchronization, in various network scenarios. Some
have claimed this is clearly noticeable and significant. I'd like to
see the experiments and the data.
NTF is very happy to do this work, incrementally if needed, if we can
get the necessary support
On 3/28/2020 5:35 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>
>
>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 01:18, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>>
>> Ragnar,
>>
>> On 3/28/2020 4:59 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 00:35, Harlan Stenn wrote:
ed network
capacity. A cynic could argue that requiring additional internet
bandwidth is a profitable goal, and the drama about requiring that extra
protection is the distraction that normalizes that cost.
H
On 3/28/2020 5:18 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
> Ragnar,
>
> On 3/28/2020 4:59 PM, Ra
Ragnar,
On 3/28/2020 4:59 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>
>
>> On 29 Mar 2020, at 00:35, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>>
>> Ragnar,
>>
>> On 3/28/2020 4:09 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 28 Mar 2020, at 23:58, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>&g
Ragnar,
On 3/28/2020 4:09 PM, Ragnar Sundblad wrote:
>
>> On 28 Mar 2020, at 23:58, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>>
>>> Steven Sommars said:
>>>> The secure time transfer of NTS was designed to avoid
>>>amplification attacks.
>>
>> Uh, no
ecure time transfer of NTS was designed to avoid
> amplification attacks.
Uh, no.
If you understand what's going on from the perspective of both the
client and the server and think about the various cases, I think you'll
see what I mean.
NTS is a task-specific hammer.
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would approach the MTU limit, in
some cases.
If a packet is "too big" for some pathway, then are we talking about a
fractional packet loss or are we talking about 100% packet loss (dropped
mid-way due to size)?
> Damian
--
Harlan Stenn
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bugs all the time and we don't
> have the source code to fix it as a community.
> So I suspect significantly better quality software would at least
> initially cost more to produce and it would reduce revenue in loss of
> support.
Yeah, things need to get better, and soon. At least,
On 12/31/2019 7:21 AM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
> On 12/31/19 1:32 AM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>> On 12/30/2019 8:32 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>>> On 12/30/19 8:22 PM, Seth Mattinen wrote:
>>>> Is anyone from ntpd.org on here? You're pointing DNS at me for some
>>&
t legit? I don't know what
>> it was before because I've never looked, but that seems off.
>>
>>
>
> nevermind, I'm tired and confused ntpd.org with ntp.org. Just going to
> wildcard *.ntpd.org to 127.0.0.1 and go back to sleep.
I did think about replying, saying "Jus
On 5/2/2019 7:59 AM, William Herrin wrote:
> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:03 PM Harlan Stenn <mailto:st...@nwtime.org>> wrote:
>
> It's not clear to me that there's anything *wrong* with using the pool,
> especially if you're using our 'pool' directive in your config
On 5/2/2019 9:13 AM, James R Cutler wrote:
>> On May 2, 2019, at 10:59 AM, William Herrin > <mailto:b...@herrin.us>> wrote:
>>
>> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 7:03 PM Harlan Stenn > <mailto:st...@nwtime.org>> wrote:
>>
>> It's no
behaves if it loses the GPS signal.
The consensus issue isn't about the number of satellites the GPS
receiver sees, it's about the number of time sources your NTP servers see.
H
--
> -mel via cell
>
>> On May 1, 2019, at 6:49 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>>
>>
&
their own directions.
http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/OrphanMode is the better solution.
If you cannot do that for some reason, please see the "Dual Time
Servers" case at
http://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Support/UndisciplinedLocalClock .
--
Harlan Stenn
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
ntly-good quality to replace them.
This goes to "have _enough_ good-quality servers, and monitor your ntpd".
> If your system is Internet-connected. If you run an air gapped network then
> yeah, get your time out of band.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
--
Harlan Stenn
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
orth. And there are
some good points in there, too.
H
--
> -mel
>
> On May 1, 2019, at 3:48 PM, James R Cutler
> mailto:james.cut...@consultant.com>> wrote:
>
> On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 02:35:58PM -0700, Harlan Stenn wrote:
> - Why do folks want to have one or more N
ven their smallest models
>> have decent oscillators (for keeping the ticks accurate between GPS signals).
>>
>> The Meinberg time server products (I am guessing all of them, but I’m not
>> sure) also have a mode where they poll an upstream NTP server aggressively
>> and then steer the oscillator after it. I haven’t used it in production, but
>> it worked a lot better than it sounded like it would. (In other words, even
>> without GPS it’s a better time server than most systems).
>>
>>
>> Ask
--
Harlan Stenn
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
rmware.
These problems can be mitigated if you have "enough" time sources for
your internal NTP servers and you peer with enough other, possibly your,
servers.
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
--
Harlan Stenn
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
ou've
> potentially got known-good time info before you start bringing
> higher-level network protocols up (and can purposely delay until you do,
> if desired) which is potentially impossible if your only source of time
> is the network itself.
Ah, this is the dance with "have enough sources of time"...
--
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http://nwtime.org - be a Member!
On 5/1/19 2:59 PM, Andreas Ott wrote:
> On Wed, May 01, 2019 at 02:35:58PM -0700, Harlan Stenn wrote:
>> - Why do folks want to have one or more NTP server masters that have at
>> least 1 refclock on them in a data center, instead of having their data
>> center NTP server
servers in their data
centers for their tenants (or for the general public)?
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gh boxes, you should have an easy time seeing what
happens on boxes where you have an easier time watching ntpd's drift
value than you have watching a nearby dedicated temperature sensor.
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
al labs aren't -- UTC is
> figured well after the fact.
>
> In the United States that would the United States Naval Observatory
> (USNO) Master Clock (http://tycho.usno.navy.mil/). You can read
> more about it here:
> http://motherboard.vice.com/read/demetrios-matsakis-and-the-master-clock
>
> allan
>
>
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
d like them to change the information.
> Is there the person knowing the contact information to ntp.org?
I don't recall seeing the emails you sent to webmaster, but we do have a
new group of folks watching the Servers web. We would be happy to work
with you to give you access to those entries so you can
On 12/22/16 5:25 PM, Royce Williams wrote:
> On Thu, Dec 22, 2016 at 4:05 PM, Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org> wrote:
>
>> This sort of misconfiguration will happen and the NTP Pool Project
>> clearly isn't the place to solve this problem overall. It *is*
>>
On 12/22/16 4:11 PM, Ask Bjørn Hansen wrote:
>> On Dec 20, 2016, at 8:02 PM, Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 12/20/16 7:27 PM, Laurent Dumont wrote: To be honest, the fact
>>> that NTP is still something managed by volunteers and
>
>> Does anyone know of any other (non Google) leap-smearing NTP implementations?
The NTP Project has had a leap-smear implementation for a while.
We also have a proposal for a REFID that indicates the provided time is
a leap-smear time, and Network Time Foundation is working on a new
tim
e had a useful budget.
Folks pay money for DNS registrations. There's no revenue stream around
"time".
Help us get enough support to NTF, and we'll have the staff and
infrastructure to do more for folks.
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
out to happen. Mostly "security" bugs
that folks will not see, if they're being at all responsible.
Eric, you are loved and appreciated, and respected and admired.
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@ntp.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
guages
> standard libraries.
>
> Hopefully they'll decide in 2023 finally to get rid of leap seconds
> from UTC. Then GPS_TIME, TAI and UTC are all same with different
> static offset.
How about you run your systems on TAI or satellite time?
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Harlan Stenn writes:
> Sharon Goldberg writes:
> > Well, if you really want to learn about the NTP servers a target is using
> > you can always just sent them a regular NTP timing query (mode 3) and just
> > read off the IP address in the reference ID field of the response
v6 server. This trick only works for IPv4.
And we have a fix for all of this that will be out soon.
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@ntp.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
rs you run
> using authentication.
Yes, and properly monitor your ntpd instances.
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@ntp.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
On 11/16/15 4:55 PM, Jared Mauch wrote:
> This action by red hat is nice from a stability perspective but
> infuriates many standards derived folks like ISC/BIND and NTP amongst
> others as a version number means something to them.
>
> This dialogue is typically broken from both sides as
On 9/28/15 11:08 PM, Mark Andrews wrote:
> In message <560a13e6.7060...@nwtime.org>, Harlan Stenn writes:
>> I'm looking for some general "calendar" help to use for our security
>> release scheduling process. Something that usefully accounts for
>> clients a
d on input from your constituents. Do your best. That is all
> your can do.
>
> Barry
>
> PS - Let me know if you need help writing the disclosure policy.
>
>
>
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
ved, and I'm hoping some
folks on this list might be able to offer me some pointers.
--
Harlan Stenn <st...@nwtime.org>
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
the knobs alone.
--
Harlan Stenn st...@nwtime.org
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
with this
idea when I was at Cisco.
--
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http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
signature.asc
Description: OpenPGP digital signature
.fa58e5f0 Sat, Jul 11 2015 23:15:12.977, state=0,
offset=0.000, frequency=0.000, jitter=0.004, stability=0.000
On Fri, Jul 10, 2015 at 4:30 PM, Harlan Stenn st...@nwtime.org wrote:
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP
8:21 PM, Dovid Bender wrote:
You would need to ask Juniper that
On Sat, Jul 11, 2015 at 11:17 PM, Harlan Stenn st...@nwtime.org wrote:
Dovid,
Thanks, and I'm kinda stunned that folks are running such ancient
versions of NTP.
https://support.ntp.org/bin/view/Dev/ReleaseTimeline
Harlan Stenn writes:
We will. But we're going to be asking them for support for network
time. Folks like you are probably paying them for support. They'll
listen more to people like you.
This goes to *all* vendors who embed NTP in their products, we're not
interested in in picking
Resending...
On 7/10/15 12:29 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
I'm trying to build a list of the versions of NTP that are in active use
on various active pieces of network gear.
I know that Cisco, for example, uses NTP in around 10 different product
lines, but I don't know what versions of NTP
Mikael Abrahamsson writes:
This is similar to the jiffycounter wrapping, since this doesn't happen
that often, it's not commonly tested for. Good way is to start the jiffy
counter so it wraps after 10 minutes of uptime. That way you'll run into
any bugs quickly. Either we should abolish the
time and equipment.
--
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http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Mike Hammett writes:
It looks to have only affected the CCR line and only those running the
NTP and not the SNTP package.
Any idea what version of NTP or what their configuration looked like?
H
Joe writes:
A leap sec causing issues. For about 40 years now, there have been
these leap seconds to no real issue. All of these are go-forwards
No, they're all go-backwards events. That's no big deal to things
that don't care about monotonic time, or to folks who aren't in
violation of
Matthew Huff writes:
A backward step is a known issue and something that people are more
comfortable dealing with as it can happen on any machine with a noisy
clock crystal.
A clock crystal has to be REALLY bad for ntpd to need to step the clock.
Having 61 seconds in a minute or 86401
This stuff can make my head explode.
When a leap second is added, like on 30 June 2015 at the last second of
the day, POSIX insists that the day still have 86400 seconds in it.
This makes the day longer by one second, so time has to either slow down
or move backwards.
The dumb way to do this is
Alex Hardie writes:
Not to inject more confusion - but GPS and NTP are noted in the
thread... but not PTP (IEEE1588)?
I don't belive PTP generally uses UTC as a timescale.
H
shawn wilson writes:
On Jun 23, 2015 6:26 AM, Nick Hilliard n...@foobar.org wrote:
Blocking NTP at the NTP edge will probably work fine for most situations.
Bear in mind that your NTP edge is not necessarily the same as your
network
edge. E.g. you might have internal GPS / radio
Tony Finch writes:
Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote:
It's a problem with POSIX, not UTC.
UTC is monotonic.
The problems are that UTC is unpredictable, and it breaks the standard
labelling of points in time that was used for hundreds (arguably
thousands) of years before 1972.
You
Doug Barton writes:
This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 4880 and 3156)
On 6/19/15 2:58 PM, Harlan Stenn wrote:
Bad idea.
When restarting ntpd your clocks will likely be off by a second,
which will cause a backward step, which will force the problem you
claim to be avoiding
that use
it, they could certainly do better. I know they were current when I did
the port for the MDS switch line, years ago.
--
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http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
shawn wilson writes:
... I mean letting computers figure out slower earth rotation on the
fly would seem more accurate than leap seconds anyway. And then all of
us who do earthly things and would like simpler libraries could live
in peace.
Really? Have you looked in to those calculations,
Baldur Norddahl writes:
On 19 June 2015 at 23:58, Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org wrote:
Bad idea.
When restarting ntpd your clocks will likely be off by a second, which
will cause a backward step, which will force the problem you claim to be
avoiding.
If you are afraid that your
Bad idea.
When restarting ntpd your clocks will likely be off by a second, which
will cause a backward step, which will force the problem you claim to be
avoiding.
There are plenty of ways to solve this problem, and you just get to
choose what you want to risk/pay.
--
Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org
timezone files
- help Network Time Foundation get the General Timestamp API implemented
and deployed, which will let folks use whatever timescale they want.
--
Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Just to ask, what is the expected effect on DDoS attacks if folks
implemented BCP38?
How does the cost of implementing BCP38 compare to the cost of other
solution attempts?
H
Rob Seastrom writes:
New subject so as to minimize threadjacking, not the least because
this is important stuff.
Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org writes:
Releng is hard and thankless but adds enormous value and
serves as a forcing function for some level of review, cursory though
it may
function for some level of review, cursory though
it may be.
I think so too.
Hey everybody, please support Network Time. Spread the word. OK, I said it.
--
Harlan Stenn st...@ntp.org
http://networktimefoundation.org - be a member!
Greg Walden (R-OR) is similarly funded by the cable and telecom folks,
and is also loud and clear that he thinks we should forget about net
neutrality and let the companies do what is best.
H
Brett Glass writes:
At 12:19 PM 7/15/2014, Barry Shein wrote:
There exists a low and high (practical) bandwidth range within which
it simply doesn't make any difference to a given business model.
Very true. And there's another factor to consider.
Estimates of the maximum bandwidths of
Dobbins, Roland writes:
Operators are using this size-based filtering to effect without
breaking the world.
As a reality check, with this filtering in place does ntptrace still
work?
H
Folks,
I just posted http://nwtime.org/ntp-winter-2013-network-drdos-attacks/ .
In general we've never allowed comments to blog posts on that site;
we're currently discussing if we should allow them for this post.
I'd love to hear any feedback about the post.
Thanks...
--
Harlan Stenn st
Kate Gerry writes:
Just add these to your ntp.conf configuration then restart the service: (Wo=
rks with all default installations that I've found)
restrict default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
restrict -6 default kod nomodify notrap nopeer noquery
KOD only works with limited in the
If somebody has contacts at Juniper who is involved in this, I'd like to
get their contact information.
--
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