: Tuesday, August 4, 2020 10:24 AM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by
AS10990)
CSCdj01351. Fixed in 1997.
Regards,
Jakob.
-Original Message-
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:29:59 -0700
From: Ryan Hamel
...
Also, wasn't it you
CSCdj01351. Fixed in 1997.
Regards,
Jakob.
-Original Message-
Date: Sat, 1 Aug 2020 13:29:59 -0700
From: Ryan Hamel
...
Also, wasn't it you that said Cisco routers had a bug in ignoring NO_EXPORT?
...
Dear Ryan,
I have come to believe this is a Noction IRP specific issue.
On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 01:29:59PM -0700, Ryan Hamel wrote:
> I disagree on the fact that it is not fair to the BGP implementation
> ecosystem, to enforce a single piece of software to activate the
> no-export com
ised beyond the local AS, just like RFC1918 routes, and more. Also,
> wasn't it you that said Cisco routers had a bug in ignoring NO_EXPORT?
> Would you go on a rant with Cisco, even if Noction add that enabled
> checkbox by default?
>
> Why are you not on your soap box about BIR
On 3/Aug/20 00:03, Ross Tajvar wrote:
> I guess I missed your mention of "guidance rather than regulation",
> and am still missing it, unless you're referring to another thread.
>
> If you want to acknowledge a problem with internet governance and
> bring it to this mailing list for discussion,
Cc: nanog@nanog.org
Sent: Sunday, August 2, 2020 9:42:12 AM
Subject: Re: Issue with Noction IRP default setting (Was: BGP route hijack by
AS10990)
On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 4:34 AM Robert Raszuk < rob...@raszuk.net > wrote:
All,
Watching this thread with interest got an idea - let
I guess I missed your mention of "guidance rather than regulation", and am
still missing it, unless you're referring to another thread.
If you want to acknowledge a problem with internet governance and bring it
to this mailing list for discussion, that sounds like a good idea. But the
only "proble
On 2/Aug/20 21:37, Ross Tajvar wrote:
> Mark,
>
> I think trying to implement some kind of license requirement for DFZ
> participants is a step in the wrong direction and a waste of time and
> money. How would you even enforce it? If the goal is just to provide a
> bigger barrier to "kids born a
On Sun, Aug 2, 2020 at 9:36 AM Robert Raszuk wrote:
> Hi Ca,
>
> > Noction is sold to ISPs, aka transit AS, afaik
>
> Interesting.
>
> My impression always was by talking to Noction some time back that mainly
> what they do is a flavor of performance routing. But
Mark,
I think trying to implement some kind of license requirement for DFZ
participants is a step in the wrong direction and a waste of time and
money. How would you even enforce it? If the goal is just to provide a
bigger barrier to "kids born after 9/11", why not just increase RIR fees,
or add a
And bgp "optimizer" won't do that
At best, they will let you get the less worst
On 8/2/20 6:36 PM, Robert Raszuk wrote:
if I care about my services I want to exit the best
performing way to reach back customers.
On 2/Aug/20 01:44, Ryan Hamel wrote:
> Matt,
>
> Why are you blaming the ease of use on the vendor, for the operators
> lack of knowledge regarding BGP? That is like blaming a vehicle
> manufacturer for a person pressing the gas pedal in a car and not
> giving a toss about the rules of the road.
Hi Ca,
> Noction is sold to ISPs, aka transit AS, afaik
Interesting.
My impression always was by talking to Noction some time back that mainly
what they do is a flavor of performance routing. But this is not about
Noction IMHO.
If I am a non transit ASN with N upstream ISPs I want to exit
*Idea: *
>
> In all stub (non transit) ASNs we modify BGP spec and disable automatic
> iBGP to eBGP advertisement ?
>
Why do you believe a stub AS was involved or that would have changed this
situation?
The whole point of Noction is for a bad isp to fake more specific routes to
downstream
olution. It should be common sense that certain
> routes that should be advertised beyond the local AS, just like
> RFC1918 routes, and more. Also, wasn't it you that said Cisco routers
> had a bug in ignoring NO_EXPORT? Would you go on a rant with Cisco,
> even if Noction add that e
On 1/Aug/20 18:58, Job Snijders wrote:
> Following a large scale BGP incident in March 2015, noction made it
> possible to optionally set the well-known NO_EXPORT community on route
> advertisements originated by IRP instances.
>
> "In order to further reduce the
All,
Watching this thread with interest got an idea - let me run it by this list
before taking it any further (ie. to IETF).
How about we learn from this and try to make BGP just a little bit safer ?
*Idea: *
In all stub (non transit) ASNs we modify BGP spec and disable automatic
iBGP to eBGP a
is
>> different (web browser vs. SSH client).
>>
>
> Vendors are responsible. The FTC slammed D-Link for being insecure and
> they can slam Noction too
>
>
> https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/07/d-link-agrees-make-security-enhancements-settle-ftc-litigati
esponsible. The FTC slammed D-Link for being insecure and
they can slam Noction too
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2019/07/d-link-agrees-make-security-enhancements-settle-ftc-litigation
Asking people in Pintos to not get in accidents is not an option.
https://www.tortmuseum.
tions encourage best practice? They decided RPKI
validation was a good thing.
Ryan
On Aug 1 2020, at 4:12 pm, Matt Erculiani wrote:
> Ryan,
>
> The reason Noction is being singled out here as opposed to other BGP speakers
> is that it inherently breaks several BGP protection mechani
Was Tulix using Noction, or was it something else that caused their particular
issue?
-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions
http://www.ics-il.com
Midwest-IX
http://www.midwest-ix.com
- Original Message -
From: "Job Snijders"
To: nanog@nanog.org
Sent
Ryan,
The reason Noction is being singled out here as opposed to other BGP
speakers is that it inherently breaks several BGP protection mechanisms as
a means to achieve its purpose. BGP was never intended to be "optimized",
it was intended to be stable and scalable. While i'm
be advertised beyond the
local AS, just like RFC1918 routes, and more. Also, wasn't it you that said
Cisco routers had a bug in ignoring NO_EXPORT? Would you go on a rant with
Cisco, even if Noction add that enabled checkbox by default?
Why are you not on your soap box about BIRD, FRro
On Sat, Aug 01, 2020 at 06:50:55AM -0700, Ca By wrote:
> I am not normally supporting a heavy hand in regulation, but i think it is
> fair to say Noction and similar BGP optimizers are unsafe at any speed and
> the FTC or similar should ban them in the USA. They harm consumers and are
&g
ite (not Cogent -- they still call
> me all the time as well) to see what they sell.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Kaiser, Erich"
> Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2020 5:50pm
> To: "NANOG list"
> Subject: Re: [EXT] Shin
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 08:13:58PM -0400, Chuck Anderson wrote:
> Let's start a public blacklist, sort of like a RBL reputation block
> list or 800notes.com, but for companies to "never to do business with"
> for spamming.
So it shall be done. Nominations accepted at:
nanog-spamm...@fire
On Thu, Mar 26, 2020 at 01:39:20PM -0700, Sabri Berisha wrote:
> - On Mar 25, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Chuck Anderson c...@wpi.edu wrote:
>
> > Let's start a public blacklist, sort of like a RBL reputation block list or
> > 800notes.com, but for companies to "never to do business with" for spamming.
- On Mar 25, 2020, at 5:13 PM, Chuck Anderson c...@wpi.edu wrote:
> Let's start a public blacklist, sort of like a RBL reputation block list or
> 800notes.com, but for companies to "never to do business with" for spamming.
And while we're doing that, let's add the organizations that add "[EXT
the future, we will be adding a feature within Noction IRP to give
an option to tag all the more specific prefixes that it generates with
the BGP NO_EXPORT community. ***This will not be enabled by
default***, due to potential drawbacks; such as customers who use
multiple ASes or customers who have eBGP
Their device by itself did not leak anything, no. But it was the thing that
created the more specifics that were then leaked due to other errors.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 7:50 PM Michel Py wrote:
> > In recent months, I've been trying to bring your attention to BGP
> optimization.
>
> Is that no
Let's start a public blacklist, sort of like a RBL reputation block list or
800notes.com, but for companies to "never to do business with" for spamming.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 06:11:41PM -0400, Martin Hannigan wrote:
> This is overt and more than DB scraping IMHO. It's repulsive.
>
> Public pre
> In recent months, I've been trying to bring your attention to BGP
> optimization.
Is that not the thing that leaked a massive amount of prefixes some time ago ?
Michel.
TSI Disclaimer: This message and any files or text attached to it are intended
only for the recipients named above and con
This is overt and more than DB scraping IMHO. It's repulsive.
Public pressure is the only way to police _this_.
YMMV,
-M<
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 4:30 PM Chuck Anderson wrote:
> Someone should tell them what happened to Cogent for scraping ARIN WHOIS.
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 04:13:51PM -0
I like that idea!
Erich Kaiser
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 4:57 PM Mike Lyon wrote:
> Actually, you should route their calls to the IRS scammers who keep
> calling. I'm sure the two callers would have a lot of fun chatting with
> each other.
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:51 PM Kaiser, Erich wr
Actually, you should route their calls to the IRS scammers who keep
calling. I'm sure the two callers would have a lot of fun chatting with
each other.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:51 PM Kaiser, Erich wrote:
> Cogent calls me about 2-3 times a week. TIme to start re-routing their
> calls back to
on ambulance chasers - Noction
Cogent calls me about 2-3 times a week. TIme to start re-routing their calls
back to them..
Erich Kaiser
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 3:29 PM Chuck Anderson <[ c...@wpi.edu ](
mailto:c...@wpi.edu )> wrote:Someone should tell them what happened to Cogent
for scr
Cogent calls me about 2-3 times a week. TIme to start re-routing their
calls back to them..
Erich Kaiser
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 3:29 PM Chuck Anderson wrote:
> Someone should tell them what happened to Cogent for scraping ARIN WHOIS.
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 04:13:51PM -0400, Rodney Joffe
Someone should tell them what happened to Cogent for scraping ARIN WHOIS.
On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 04:13:51PM -0400, Rodney Joffe wrote:
> Under the heading of sales spam from our community that is in even poorer
> taste, and sucks:
>
>
> Begin forwarded message:
>
> > From: Josh Ankin
> > Sub
Under the heading of sales spam from our community that is in even poorer
taste, and sucks:
Begin forwarded message:
> From: Josh Ankin
> Subject: BGP Management
> Date: March 25, 2020 at 3:39:02 PM EDT
> To: rjo...@centergate.com
> Reply-To: jan...@noction.com
>
> Hello Rodney,
>
> I know
I have 3 different well-known caches local to my network...
45% of my subscriber traffic hits the caches
55% of my subscriber traffic hits the internet uplinks
I love my caches, but I REALLY love the Netflix cache. It's a huge savings on
my internet uplinks.
-Aaron
If my servers are watching Netflix all day I’ve got another problem way
beyond traffic visibility.
On July 12, 2017 at 12:37:48 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu (
valdis.kletni...@vt.edu) wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:03:50 -0700, ShaColby Jackson said:
> I know solutions like Kentik do a lot more b
well.
-Original Message-
From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of ShaColby Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, July 12, 2017 2:04 PM
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: noction vs border6 vs kentik vs fcp vs ?
I know this topic has gone around a couple times but wondering if there ar
On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 11:03:50 -0700, ShaColby Jackson said:
> I know solutions like Kentik do a lot more but Iâm focusing on just the
> above use case. Also ignoring the cloud vs. on-prem difference, assume that
> doesnât matter.
Might want to re-think that. In a world where some eyeball netw
I know this topic has gone around a couple times but wondering if there are
any new strong opinions on inbound+outbound traffic analysis with a bonus
for excellence in traffic engineering at the edge. A typical use case would
be finding an AS or prefix representing a large volume of inbound and/or
If you run a multi-homed network calling them back can't hurt. Apparently they
provide route optimization like Internap but is available for smaller networks.
On Wed, Apr 10, 2013 at 02:30:52PM -0700, Ray Wong wrote:
> gotten a few cold calls from Noction. All I see is some PR a
del wrote:
It's like the Internap FCP. I think it's been on the market about a
year.
They're a nice group of guys and the product does what they say it does.
Aaron
On 4/10/2013 4:30 PM, Ray Wong wrote:
gotten a few cold calls from Noction. All I see is some PR about BGP
happiness
It's like the Internap FCP. I think it's been on the market about a year.
They're a nice group of guys and the product does what they say it does.
Aaron
On 4/10/2013 4:30 PM, Ray Wong wrote:
gotten a few cold calls from Noction. All I see is some PR about BGP
happiness an
I think you answered your own question
--Original Message--
From: Ray Wong
To: nanog list
Subject: Noction?
Sent: Apr 10, 2013 5:30 PM
gotten a few cold calls from Noction. All I see is some PR about BGP
happiness and good feelings with no technical hints about what they
actually have
gotten a few cold calls from Noction. All I see is some PR about BGP
happiness and good feelings with no technical hints about what they
actually have to offer. They haven't even hit me directly, rather seem
to be chasing us down via corporate listings, so are giving me
not-confident feeli
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