Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

FWIW, in this really interesting read about the latest vulnerability released by Project Zero, they talk about AWDL and how if this is in use (AirDrop enabled?) then you're going to get tons of jitter/packet

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

> On 22 Nov 2020, at 20:43, J. Hellenthal wrote: > > You can supposedly still use 4.5 4.6 on Big Sur if you do the following but > I have not tested it on Little Snotch, works fine for personal software and > others ... > > codesign -dvvv littlesnitch.package name > Save the team

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

You can supposedly still use 4.5 4.6 on Big Sur if you do the following but I have not tested it on Little Snotch, works fine for personal software and others ... codesign -dvvv littlesnitch.package name Save the team identifier Boot into recovery mode Open terminal and type the following...

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

> “Saw the same” after installing yesterday Big Sur and suddenly > received a notification “this version of little snitch is no longer > supported by macOS. It’s looks like I have to pay 25€ for a new > compatible version. and big slur bypasses it for some nefarious uses, e.g. [un]trustd i am

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

> On 22 Nov 2020, at 10:17, Mark Tinka wrote: > >  So after installing Little Snitch and basically denying "trustd" any kind > of Internet access, I have been seeing reasonably normal jitter with > Bluetooth enabled. I actually “saw the same” on Catalina while using little snitch. “Saw the

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

On 11/22/20 12:25, d...@darwincosta.com wrote: “Saw the same” after installing yesterday Big Sur and suddenly received a notification “this version of little snitch is no longer supported by macOS. It’s looks like I have to pay 25€ for a new compatible version. My advice would be to keep

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED! - Update!

So after installing Little Snitch and basically denying "trustd" any kind of Internet access, I have been seeing reasonably normal jitter with Bluetooth enabled. It's not that Bluetooth stops scanning, but it's not scanning as aggressively. So after a few minutes, there will be very high

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

tablet as a Sidecar monitor to my Macbook because that traffic is blocked. From: NANOG on behalf of Mark Tinka Organization: SEACOM Date: Tuesday, November 17, 2020 at 2:37 AM To: Saku Ytti Cc: North American Network Operators Group Subject: Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 09:35, Mark Tinka wrote: > Yes, saw that too, and that post by Apple is also highlighted (and explained) > in the same report. Aah, I had not seen the updated version of it, thanks. -- ++ytti

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

On 11/17/20 09:26, Saku Ytti wrote: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491 I am not trying to make any argument, just wanted to add context. Yes, saw that too, and that post by Apple is also highlighted (and explained) in the same report. The Gatekeeper OCSP checks remain unencrypted.

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

On Tue, 17 Nov 2020 at 09:17, Mark Tinka wrote: > https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202491 I am not trying to make any argument, just wanted to add context. -- ++ytti

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

I'm not generally into conspiracy, but as I keep trying to work out the issue I described in this thread, I came across this:     https://sneak.berlin/20201112/your-computer-isnt-yours/ Might explain quite a lot, actually, (particularly at the FAQ section under "When did this start?") and why

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Thanks, J. So I did test this a few times as well. The only thing I had enabled (during the first test) in "System Services" was "Find My Mac". Everything else was turned off, and the issue remained. Just to confirm that this was a clean install of Catalina, so the only wi-fi AP in my

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Hey Mark, Went through a bunch of tests here. Seems I’ve cleared up the matter on this macOS[1] Big Sur at least by disabling Wi-Fi Networking under “Location Services -> System Services -> Wi-Fi Networking [2]”. It seems at least from perspective that something changed there and causes the

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Just an update on this re: the Bluetooth. I had my AirPods paired previously for single use. I don't use them on the laptop (there is some latency), so I prefer the wired earphones. But it seems like Bluetooth was aggressively scanning for them. After removing them from the system, the

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Let me jump in and add a bit more information. I am not an RF guy - I stopped playing with radios [and TV] in the days when they used vacuum tubes (yes, really.) Many laptops share radio and antenna resources between WiFi and bluetooth. Bluetooth lives on the 2.4ghz band.  Wifi presently

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Thanks for the input, Karl. Hopefully someone from Apple is around here and can get some ideas on how to fix this particular problem set. Mark. On 10/31/20 11:37, Karl Auerbach wrote: Let me jump in and add a bit more information. I am not an RF guy - I stopped playing with radios [and

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

On 10/30/20 23:57, Doug Barton wrote: I would hesitate to blame BT. I have a macbook pro from ~1 year ago, on Catalina, and I use BT extensively ... mouse, keyboard, and headset. I do have location services trimmed down to just find my mac. I ran: ping -c 1000 -i 0.1 1000 packets

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Hi Mark, I'm running a MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015) with Mojave 10.14.6 (latest). I've always had location services off (including all system services within). I haven't seen any jitter issues on my end. Along with, no matter if I have bluetooth turned on with my wireless mouse and

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

I was curious, so poked at this... my results from a macbook pro 2019 running Catalina 10.15.3 sudo /usr/local/sbin/mtr -r 10.200.200.200 Start: 2020-10-29T14:09:08-0400 HOST: bos-mp36c Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1.|-- 10.200.200.200 0.0%10

RE: [SPAM] Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

PLEASE REMOVE ME FROM THE LISTTHANK YOU Original Message Subject: [SPAM] Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter From: colin johnston <col...@gt86car.org.uk> Date: Thu, October 29, 2020 11:12 am To: Mark Tinka <mark.ti...@seacom.com> Cc: NANOG <

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Might be worth disabling each AP to see if there's one out there having an issue playing nice with the MacBook. Also try different combinations of two APs working together. It's possible the MacBook is flip flopping because the power levels are fighting each other. Does the Mac have this issue

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Heya ! Doug! Yeah I wouldn’t put this on BT either. On the other hand it seems that whether the scheduler is newreno or cubic that this situation persists pasts my previous suggestions. Seems tho that when you put strain on an upload that the jitter gets considerably worse... 90m out of a 100m

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

I would hesitate to blame BT. I have a macbook pro from ~1 year ago, on Catalina, and I use BT extensively ... mouse, keyboard, and headset. I do have location services trimmed down to just find my mac. I ran: ping -c 1000 -i 0.1 1000 packets transmitted, 998 packets received, 0.2% packet

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter - SOLVED!

Hi all. So I may have fixed this for my end, and hopefully others may be able to use the same fix. After a tip from Karl Auerbach and this link:     https://developer.apple.com/forums/thread/97805 ... I was able to fix the problem by disabling Bluetooth. However, disabling Bluetooth was

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 20:14, David Curado wrote: I was curious, so poked at this... my results from a macbook pro 2019 running Catalina 10.15.3 sudo /usr/local/sbin/mtr -r 10.200.200.200 Start: 2020-10-29T14:09:08-0400 HOST: bos-mp36c                   Loss%   Snt Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev  

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Sorry--accidental premature send. On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 12:54 PM Brielle wrote: > Updates are from same link as above, and there's new builds based on > their new OS that integrates a bunch of separate controllers if you > don't mind beta... > With most companies I wouldn't mind. But with

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 12:54 PM Brielle wrote: > On 10/29/2020 1:42 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG wrote: > > I have an old CloudKey that mysteriously doesn't seem to be getting > > updates anymore. > > >

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/2020 1:42 PM, Aaron C. de Bruyn via NANOG wrote: I have an old CloudKey that mysteriously doesn't seem to be getting updates anymore. https://community.ui.com/releases/UniFi-Cloud-Key-Firmware-1-1-13/733dfc55-b61b-483b-afc1-77d7f2c1e032 4 months ago, if you want to stick strictly to

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 12:22 PM Peter Beckman wrote: > I'll take all of your Unifi gear, PM me for an address. :-) > I'd send it your way in a heartbeat, but you wouldn't get much use out of it. I have an old CloudKey that mysteriously doesn't seem to be getting updates anymore. I have an old

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

I also have all Ubiquiti stuff at home, and I’ve deployed it in large installations of up to 100 APs. Beyond that it seems to hit some communication bottleneck in its spectrum allocation protocols, so I usually go to Aruba or Ruckus for networks larger than that. Ubiquiti is pretty reliable,

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

I'd need more data than your anecdotal experience with a POE device to throw out my Unifi gear and ban the company. But I'm dealing with 2 devices: a Security Gateway and a single Access Point (plus the Controller software running on my Mac). There are some quirky things about Unifi that can be

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 5:43 AM Jared Mauch wrote: > I have all UBNT at home for wireless and periodically have some > random > issues which I can't explain, but for the most part have things tuned to > ensure > there's little to no interference. > All UBNT at home? Ouch. They're on

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 19:38, colin johnston wrote: Be careful using Apple wireless diagnostic package, uses a lot of /var/tmp space on a small Macbook air 128ssd Mine cost me 300MB. Mark.

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 19:24, colin johnston wrote: This does seem to be solved with the checksum disable below, or at least pings down to sub 10ms on Mac book air with Catalina beta 10.15.6, why aim performs far better I don’t know. I tried to introduce load after cksum disable and it did not see

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Be careful using Apple wireless diagnostic package, uses a lot of /var/tmp space on a small Macbook air 128ssd Col > On 29 Oct 2020, at 17:24, colin johnston wrote: > > This does seem to be solved with the checksum disable below, or at least > pings down to sub 10ms on Mac book air with

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 19:27, Randy Bush wrote: you only *think* you turned off location services. as they are a vital component of providing a good user experience ... :( That was an honest, lingering thought. Mark.

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

> Most folk from various fora suggested Location Services were to > blame. I turned all of mine off, no joy. you only *think* you turned off location services. as they are a vital component of providing a good user experience ... :(

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

This does seem to be solved with the checksum disable below, or at least pings down to sub 10ms on Mac book air with Catalina beta 10.15.6, why aim performs far better I don’t know. I tried to introduce load after cksum disable and it did not see ping spikes as before How do we now explain to

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 19:12, colin johnston wrote: Hey Mark, Good shout with debug, same issue seen on MacBook Air with Catalina 10.15.6 beta, pings upto 150ms seen iMac with Sierra zero jitter and usually sub 1m pings Now need to find out why, I never noticed as wife using the MacBook Air :( I cant

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Hey Mark, Good shout with debug, same issue seen on MacBook Air with Catalina 10.15.6 beta, pings upto 150ms seen iMac with Sierra zero jitter and usually sub 1m pings Now need to find out why, I never noticed as wife using the MacBook Air :( I cant yet update to big sur since need lots of sad

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 18:05, Blake Hudson wrote: On the latest Catalina 10.15.7 from a MacBook Air (early 2014) via WiFi to Google Wifi Mesh router (only a single unit network): Over 2.4Ghz through 3 interior walls: --- 192.168.86.1 ping statistics --- 100 packets transmitted, 100 packets received,

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On the latest Catalina 10.15.7 from a MacBook Air (early 2014) via WiFi to Google Wifi Mesh router (only a single unit network): Over 2.4Ghz through 3 interior walls: --- 192.168.86.1 ping statistics --- 100 packets transmitted, 100 packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 16:08, J. Hellenthal wrote: I believe I have seen the same thing with a Mid 2015 11,4 running catalina. Not diagnosing further because I could not find a reason for it fast enough and not sure if it really had an impact at the moment…. but could you try the following sudo

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

* nanog@nanog.org (J. Hellenthal via NANOG) [Thu 29 Oct 2020, 15:10 CET]: [disabling checksum offload] Wireshark used to in Catalina rack up cksum errors a lot while these were all at their defaults. This is completely expected behaviour for outgoing packets. -- Niels.

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Should also state here that net.inet.icmp.icmplim=0 and the command I have been testing from is: (ping -c 5000 -i 0.1 router) --- router ping statistics --- 5000 packets transmitted, 5000 packets received, 0.0% packet loss round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 1.118/4.060/172.031/6.841 ms > On Oct

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

I believe I have seen the same thing with a Mid 2015 11,4 running catalina. Not diagnosing further because I could not find a reason for it fast enough and not sure if it really had an impact at the moment…. but could you try the following sudo sysctl net.link.generic.system.hwcksum_tx=0 sudo

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 15:04, Cory Sell wrote: Might be worth disabling each AP to see if there's one out there having an issue playing nice with the MacBook. Also try different combinations of two APs working together. It's possible the MacBook is flip flopping because the power levels are fighting

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 14:40, Jared Mauch wrote: I know there was a recent fix Apple did for devices talking to UBNT APs for their handsets, perhaps there's a similar fix needed on your side? I have all UBNT at home for wireless and periodically have some random issues which I can't

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 14:37, Mike Hammett wrote: Have you ruled out local wireless issues, such as a literal side-by-side test? Yes - all other wi-fi devices don't exhibit this issue, including my wireless-connected PC. Only this MacBook running Catalina. The problem exists at all wi-fi AP's

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On Thu, Oct 29, 2020 at 02:31:59PM +0200, Mark Tinka wrote: > > > On 10/29/20 14:27, Matt Hoppes wrote: > > > Is it actually jitter or is it potentially the wireless network card > > going into sleep mode? I have seen that type of behavior on Apple > > products when the cards go into low power

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

uot;Matt Hoppes" Cc: "NANOG" Sent: Thursday, October 29, 2020 7:31:59 AM Subject: Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter On 10/29/20 14:27, Matt Hoppes wrote: > Is it actually jitter or is it potentially the wireless network card > going in

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

On 10/29/20 14:27, Matt Hoppes wrote: Is it actually jitter or is it potentially the wireless network card going into sleep mode? I have seen that type of behavior on Apple products when the cards go into low power mode although I can’t say I have noticed that on my laptop. Not, not

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Ah yes, an example of what I am seeing: Marks-MacBook-Pro.local (172.16.0.239) 2020-10-29T14:28:27+0200 Keys:  Help   Display mode   Restart statistics   Order of fields   quit Packets   Pings  Host Loss%   Snt   Last   Avg  Best  Wrst StDev  1. 172.16.0.254 0.8%   126    3.9  34.7  

Re: Apple Catalina Appears to Introduce Massive Jitter

Is it actually jitter or is it potentially the wireless network card going into sleep mode? I have seen that type of behavior on Apple products when the cards go into low power mode although I can’t say I have noticed that on my laptop. > On Oct 29, 2020, at 8:11 AM, Mark Tinka wrote: > >