Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[bzs]

Further!

Here's a page with about 25 dial-up ISPs in Ukraine:

  https://isp.today/en/list-of-all-services/UKRAINE,toic-14,c-1

If I go to www.ua.net, as one try, they list dial-up services and
prices:

  http://www.ua.net/price/ediup.htm

Looks current.

The point being that dial-up internet is not unknown in Ukraine.

And even if these domestic dial-up services get blocked if the phone
system is still working those people can open and use a non-Ukrainian
dial-up internet account.

Obviously anything there involves some risk.

On March 3, 2022 at 02:10 b...@theworld.com (b...@theworld.com) wrote:
 > 
 > 1. They don't have to wait or hope for a starlink terminal to arrive.
 > 
 > They just have to dig out an old serial modem or system with one built
 > in (they were common), find a phone line which will support that, and
 > figure out how to get a dial-up account and use it. Like most of the
 > world did ~20 years ago and many still do.
 > 
 > I don't know how many starlink terminals were sent to Ukraine but it's
 > probably not millions. Millions might be able to figure out how to
 > dial-up though since that's what everyone used not that long ago and
 > for all I know many might still use there.
 > 
 > 2. Unless the Russians have control of the phone systems and whatever
 > it takes to isolate modem transmissions they can't just "sweep the
 > air" like they can for starlink frequencies.
 > 
 > This page (October 5, 2019) claims there are over 12M landlines in
 > Ukraine:
 > 
 >   https://www.sidmartinbio.org/how-many-landline-phones-are-there-in-ukraine/
 > 
 > On March 3, 2022 at 17:45 ka...@biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) wrote:
 >  > On Thu, 2022-03-03 at 01:12 -0500, b...@theworld.com wrote:
 >  > > If Ukrainians wanted internet access and to get around blocking it'd
 >  > > probably be more effective to dig out old serial modems and get PPP
 >  > > dial-up accounts outside the country where phone service that will
 >  > > support that still exists.
 >  > 
 >  > How on Earth is that "more effective"?
 >  > 
 >  > -- 
 >  > ~~~
 >  > Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
 >  > http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer
 >  > 
 >  > GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58
 >  > Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170
 >  > 
 >  > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > -Barry Shein
 > 
 > Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | 
 > http://www.TheWorld.com
 > Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
 > The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[bzs]

1. They don't have to wait or hope for a starlink terminal to arrive.

They just have to dig out an old serial modem or system with one built
in (they were common), find a phone line which will support that, and
figure out how to get a dial-up account and use it. Like most of the
world did ~20 years ago and many still do.

I don't know how many starlink terminals were sent to Ukraine but it's
probably not millions. Millions might be able to figure out how to
dial-up though since that's what everyone used not that long ago and
for all I know many might still use there.

2. Unless the Russians have control of the phone systems and whatever
it takes to isolate modem transmissions they can't just "sweep the
air" like they can for starlink frequencies.

This page (October 5, 2019) claims there are over 12M landlines in
Ukraine:

  https://www.sidmartinbio.org/how-many-landline-phones-are-there-in-ukraine/

On March 3, 2022 at 17:45 ka...@biplane.com.au (Karl Auer) wrote:
 > On Thu, 2022-03-03 at 01:12 -0500, b...@theworld.com wrote:
 > > If Ukrainians wanted internet access and to get around blocking it'd
 > > probably be more effective to dig out old serial modems and get PPP
 > > dial-up accounts outside the country where phone service that will
 > > support that still exists.
 > 
 > How on Earth is that "more effective"?
 > 
 > -- 
 > ~~~
 > Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
 > http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer
 > 
 > GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58
 > Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170
 > 
 > 

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Conflicts and fiber cuts

[Hank Nussbacher]

As the discussion rages on NANOG, RIPE, CENTR and many other 
uber-technical forums, I would like to see whether we can focus on what 
we know best - networking.  Perhaps a weekly report of fiber cuts 
throughout Europe (starting from Feb 15) and the RFO that the carrier 
provided.  Of especial interest would be undersea/underocean cuts or 
strange outages that the carrier cannot explain.  Perhaps we can then 
map where some nation/state is sabotaging fiber or tapping into such fiber.



Anyone willing to run with this?


-Hank

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Karl Auer]

On Thu, 2022-03-03 at 01:12 -0500, b...@theworld.com wrote:
> If Ukrainians wanted internet access and to get around blocking it'd
> probably be more effective to dig out old serial modems and get PPP
> dial-up accounts outside the country where phone service that will
> support that still exists.

How on Earth is that "more effective"?

-- 
~~~
Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer

GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58
Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[bzs]

TBH I doubt Putin et al could care less about a handful of starlinks
in Ukraine.

They're each basically one uplink for one or maybe a few devices in a
country of 44M.

If they did care the easiest/cheapest thing to do would be for the
Russians to sweep neighborhoods for starlink transmission frequencies
and just arrest etc any users thus causing others to be afraid to use
them but that's more late-game, when/if they begin to establish
"police" control.

If Ukrainians wanted internet access and to get around blocking it'd
probably be more effective to dig out old serial modems and get PPP
dial-up accounts outside the country where phone service that will
support that still exists.

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: Is soliciting money/rewards for 'responsible' security disclosures when none is stated a thing now?

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 15:30:29 -0700, Brie said:
> I just got this in my e-mail...

> I am a web app security hunter. I spent some time on your website and found
> some vulnerabilities. I see on your website you take security very
> passionately.

I've gotten similar spam a number of times over the years (though people
offering to do SEO on my site are much more frequent).

The odd thing is - as far as I know, I don't *have* a website


pgp9WM3pp1ZpR.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[John Levine]

It appears that Carsten Bormann  said:
>On 2. Mar 2022, at 17:38,   wrote:
>> 
>> “democracy”
>
>PSA: Please read
>
>https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/peacefield/6206c37b9d9e380022bed32f/is-it-fascism-is-it-socialism/
>
>before using words like this again.

Nice article, definitely worth reading.  Thanks.

R's,
John

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Mike]

.. is that a challenge? ;-)

Its a high value target. Even the NSA had it's most critical tools 
leaked.someone somewhere is going to get a foot in the door at 
starlink, it's just a matter of time (money, or both...).




On 3/2/22 5:27 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
I'm aware of the qualifications and level of knowledge in network 
security/cryptography that they hire for positions in Redmond at 
Starlink R They are quite picky about who they hire.


Highly doubt that anything that a 3rd party can do from outside of 
SpaceX's network is going to gain admin control over Starlink 
satellites. Attempt to jam them at the RF level, maybe.

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Carsten Bormann]

On 2. Mar 2022, at 17:38,   wrote:
> 
> “democracy”

PSA: Please read

https://newsletters.theatlantic.com/peacefield/6206c37b9d9e380022bed32f/is-it-fascism-is-it-socialism/

before using words like this again.

I hope this PSA is useful enough for minimizing “discussion" to warrant this 
otherwise blatantly off-topic posting.

Grüße, Carsten

Re: Starlink terminal visual camouflage tests vs improvised fabric materials

[Michael Thomas]

Bravo! Data!

Mike

On 3/2/22 5:24 PM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
I have just completed some very unscientific tests of DIY camouflage 
materials vs a starlink terminal.


Obviously there is a lot of possible discussion that is possible about 
spectrum analyzers, direction finding, jammers, etc within the context 
of what's going on in Ukraine right now. All very valid concerns.


That said, there's also some DIY possibilities for making a starlink 
terminal much less noticeable from the air or casual observation, such 
as if installed on top of a mid rise apartment building in any 
Ukrainian city. I would wager that the ratio of portable Ku/Ka-band 
spectrum analyzers with horn antennas to invasion foot 
soldiers/armored vehicle soldiers is rather low at present.


Terminal is the same as the following RIPE atlas probe location: 
https://atlas.ripe.net/probes/1001821


Terminal is a v1 from Jan. 2021.

Fabrics have been draped flat over the Starlink terminal. What effect 
this will have vs. suspended in the air a meter or so above it on some 
sort of improvised framework is a question I can't really answer right 
now (if we have any inflatable or fabric radome specialists here, 
please chime in).


Average of multiple speedtest.net  CLI runs to 
server ID 11329 in Seattle. In general any of the well-peered 
speedtest.net  servers in Seattle have the same 
results, the bottleneck is the starlink last-mile performance at any 
given point in time, and not any terrestrial network factors.



*Baseline terminal with no material above it. I do have a slight tree 
obstruction in 1/12th of its field of view to the northeast.*

152.48 Mbps down x 8.23 Mbps up, 3.17% loss
(note this averages more like 0.43% loss over 3 to 10 hour periods to 
its gateway in Seattle, I believe the loss during the particular time 
period this data was gathered to be an aberration).

*
*
*Tent rain fly, synthetic nylon material, dry*
162.02 Mbps down x 7.14 Mbps up, 1.43% loss*
*
*
*
*Two layers cotton bed sheet, doubled over on itself, thoroughly 
soaked in tap water*

55.79 Mbps down x 3.70 Mbps up, 0.77% loss

*One layer cotton bed sheet, dry*
158.78 Mbps down x 7.16 Mbps up, 0.9% loss

*Two layers thin polypropylene tarpaulin, doubled over on itself, 
approximately simulating the thickness of a single layer heavy duty tarp.*

152.77 Mbps down x 9.70 Mbps up, 1.41% loss
*
*
*
*
*
*
*
*

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Eric Kuhnke]

I'm aware of the qualifications and level of knowledge in network
security/cryptography that they hire for positions in Redmond at Starlink
R They are quite picky about who they hire.

Highly doubt that anything that a 3rd party can do from outside of SpaceX's
network is going to gain admin control over Starlink satellites. Attempt to
jam them at the RF level, maybe.



On Wed, 2 Mar 2022 at 15:40, Mike  wrote:

> You guys are missing the obvious. Russia isn't going to attack starlink in
> space, they are going to take over it's command and control functions and
> deorbit the entire constellation without firing a shot. Same for China and
> N. Korea, which both already have ample motivation already to go after
> starlink because of the existential threat to the iron fisted control they
> exert over their populace and the free flow of information. So while musk
> may be able to fly 50 at a time and has his own launch capability, if the
> command and control facilities are hijacked, musk will run out of money
> putting it all back together.
>
>
>
> On 3/2/22 1:28 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
>
> The Russians have several ASAT systems not all of them are ground based.
> Remember they also have that grappler which locks onto satellites and
> destroys them. I think this conflict will be the first one where some
> of the battles will be fought in orbit ie the ultimate ‘high ground’ the
> NATO countries have kept to the UN treaties on not militarizing space.
>  Other countries well not so much
>
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 12:35 PM Valdis Klētnieks 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said:
>>
>> > Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill,
>> and
>> > SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up  Yes,
>> > Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.
>>
>> Plus  the asymmetry is even worse than that
>>
>> Elon can use that *same* first stage booster to launch *another* 50
>> next week, while the Russians need to get a *new* booster for shooting
>> down the next bird.
>>
>> That's the *real* game changer in what SpaceX is doing
>>
>

Starlink terminal visual camouflage tests vs improvised fabric materials

[Eric Kuhnke]

I have just completed some very unscientific tests of DIY camouflage
materials vs a starlink terminal.

Obviously there is a lot of possible discussion that is possible about
spectrum analyzers, direction finding, jammers, etc within the context of
what's going on in Ukraine right now. All very valid concerns.

That said, there's also some DIY possibilities for making a starlink
terminal much less noticeable from the air or casual observation, such as
if installed on top of a mid rise apartment building in any Ukrainian city.
I would wager that the ratio of portable Ku/Ka-band spectrum analyzers with
horn antennas to invasion foot soldiers/armored vehicle soldiers is rather
low at present.

Terminal is the same as the following RIPE atlas probe location:
https://atlas.ripe.net/probes/1001821

Terminal is a v1 from Jan. 2021.

Fabrics have been draped flat over the Starlink terminal. What effect this
will have vs. suspended in the air a meter or so above it on some sort of
improvised framework is a question I can't really answer right now (if we
have any inflatable or fabric radome specialists here, please chime in).

Average of multiple speedtest.net CLI runs to server ID 11329 in Seattle.
In general any of the well-peered speedtest.net servers in Seattle have the
same results, the bottleneck is the starlink last-mile performance at any
given point in time, and not any terrestrial network factors.


*Baseline terminal with no material above it. I do have a slight tree
obstruction in 1/12th of its field of view to the northeast.*
152.48 Mbps down x 8.23 Mbps up, 3.17% loss
(note this averages more like 0.43% loss over 3 to 10 hour periods to its
gateway in Seattle, I believe the loss during the particular time period
this data was gathered to be an aberration).

*Tent rain fly, synthetic nylon material, dry*
162.02 Mbps down x 7.14 Mbps up, 1.43% loss

*Two layers cotton bed sheet, doubled over on itself, thoroughly soaked in
tap water*
55.79 Mbps down x 3.70 Mbps up, 0.77% loss

*One layer cotton bed sheet, dry*
158.78 Mbps down x 7.16 Mbps up, 0.9% loss

*Two layers thin polypropylene tarpaulin, doubled over on itself,
approximately simulating the thickness of a single layer heavy duty tarp.*
152.77 Mbps down x 9.70 Mbps up, 1.41% loss

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Jay Hennigan]

On 3/2/22 16:15, Glen Turner wrote:


Pretty much every nation has existing telecommunications laws with
power for regulation to require telecommunications providers not to
provide service to particular nation-states. Law written in an era
where Russia military deployment and expansionary policy was front of
mind.


That would be about a week ago.

--
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

Re: Anyone have contacts for Akamai GeoIP

[Jared Mauch]

Yup.. ping me with the details off-list

- Jared

> On Mar 2, 2022, at 7:02 PM, Christopher Munz-Michielin 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hey All,
> 
> Hoping someone has a contact at Akamai who can assist.
> 
> As part of my day job I run a DNS network and we've been having issues with 
> Akamai mis-locating the geolocation of some of our revolvers.  The most 
> egregious example is our resolver in Frankfurt being classified as 
> Australian, but there are some other instances as well.
> 
> This is an issue because we run fully recursive revolvers, so when a customer 
> queries our DNS server, we attempt to resolve the domain directly against the 
> authoritative name servers (Akamai in this case).  Because Akamai has 
> mis-located our IPs, we get handed an IP in the wrong hemisphere and our 
> customers experience 200+ ms latency to sites that should be regional.
> 
> We've tried reaching out via a couple of channels but have not gotten 
> anything back, wondering if anyone on the list knows a contact address for 
> Akamai GeoIP we can submit corrections to.
> 
> Cheers,

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Glen Turner]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

There's no need for Ukraine to engage ICAAN to achieve its goals.

Pretty much every nation has existing telecommunications laws with
power for regulation to require telecommunications providers not to
provide service to particular nation-states. Law written in an era
where Russia military deployment and expansionary policy was front of
mind.

It's really up to each national leadership to decide if they wish to
support the intent of Ukraine's request by issuing regulation. Much as
nations are currently doing for the finance sector.

- -glen

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iF0EARECAB0WIQTe/Jmxd43ni8odCHCd+sN+Fh/aDwUCYiAIsgAKCRCd+sN+Fh/a
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=FRhj
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RE: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Tony Wicks]

Invade America?… um, not even close to a thing

 

From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Mike
Sent: Thursday, 3 March 2022 12:39 pm
To: nanog@nanog.org
Subject: Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

 

You guys are missing the obvious. Russia isn't going to attack starlink in 
space, they are going to take over it's command and control functions and 
deorbit the entire constellation without firing a shot. Same for China and N. 
Korea, which both already have ample motivation already to go after starlink 
because of the existential threat to the iron fisted control they exert over 
their populace and the free flow of information. So while musk may be able to 
fly 50 at a time and has his own launch capability, if the command and control 
facilities are hijacked, musk will run out of money putting it all back 
together.

Anyone have contacts for Akamai GeoIP

[Christopher Munz-Michielin]

Hey All,

Hoping someone has a contact at Akamai who can assist.

As part of my day job I run a DNS network and we've been having issues 
with Akamai mis-locating the geolocation of some of our revolvers.  The 
most egregious example is our resolver in Frankfurt being classified as 
Australian, but there are some other instances as well.


This is an issue because we run fully recursive revolvers, so when a 
customer queries our DNS server, we attempt to resolve the domain 
directly against the authoritative name servers (Akamai in this case).  
Because Akamai has mis-located our IPs, we get handed an IP in the wrong 
hemisphere and our customers experience 200+ ms latency to sites that 
should be regional.


We've tried reaching out via a couple of channels but have not gotten 
anything back, wondering if anyone on the list knows a contact address 
for Akamai GeoIP we can submit corrections to.


Cheers,

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Karl Auer]

On Wed, 2022-03-02 at 15:39 -0800, Mike wrote:
> You guys are missing the obvious. Russia isn't going to attack
> starlink in space, they are going to take over it's command and
> control functions and deorbit the entire constellation without firing
> a shot.

Gee, sure hope the master password (on that computer in the basement at
SpaceX with the flickering green CRT monitor displaying inch-high
characters and that goes "beep" every time someone presses a key) isn't
"Elon"...

Regards, K.

-- 
~~~
Karl Auer (ka...@biplane.com.au)
http://www.biplane.com.au/kauer

GPG fingerprint: 61A0 99A9 8823 3A75 871E 5D90 BADB B237 260C 9C58
Old fingerprint: 2561 E9EC D868 E73C 8AF1 49CF EE50 4B1D CCA1 5170

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Mike]

You guys are missing the obvious. Russia isn't going to attack starlink 
in space, they are going to take over it's command and control functions 
and deorbit the entire constellation without firing a shot. Same for 
China and N. Korea, which both already have ample motivation already to 
go after starlink because of the existential threat to the iron fisted 
control they exert over their populace and the free flow of information. 
So while musk may be able to fly 50 at a time and has his own launch 
capability, if the command and control facilities are hijacked, musk 
will run out of money putting it all back together.




On 3/2/22 1:28 PM, Scott McGrath wrote:
The Russians have several ASAT systems not all of them are ground 
based.   Remember they also have that grappler which locks onto 
satellites and destroys them.     I think this conflict will be the 
first one where some of the battles will be fought in orbit ie the 
ultimate ‘high ground’ the NATO countries have kept to the UN treaties 
on not militarizing space.    Other countries well not so much


On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 12:35 PM Valdis Klētnieks 
 wrote:


On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said:

> Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they
kill, and
> SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up 
Yes,
> Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.

Plus  the asymmetry is even worse than that

Elon can use that *same* first stage booster to launch *another* 50
next week, while the Russians need to get a *new* booster for shooting
down the next bird.

That's the *real* game changer in what SpaceX is doing

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Thomas Scott]

As I'm reading this - I'm reminded that you don't need to destroy a
satellite to render it ineffective - just fill up the frequencies it's
Tx/Rx on with so much RFI that the pipe no longer bends. It's not as if the
frequencies and sat positions aren't public knowledge...

- Thomas Scott | mr.thomas.sc...@gmail.com


On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 4:32 PM Scott McGrath  wrote:

> The Russians have several ASAT systems not all of them are ground based.
> Remember they also have that grappler which locks onto satellites and
> destroys them. I think this conflict will be the first one where some
> of the battles will be fought in orbit ie the ultimate ‘high ground’ the
> NATO countries have kept to the UN treaties on not militarizing space.
>  Other countries well not so much
>
> On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 12:35 PM Valdis Klētnieks 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said:
>>
>> > Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill,
>> and
>> > SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up  Yes,
>> > Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.
>>
>> Plus  the asymmetry is even worse than that
>>
>> Elon can use that *same* first stage booster to launch *another* 50
>> next week, while the Russians need to get a *new* booster for shooting
>> down the next bird.
>>
>> That's the *real* game changer in what SpaceX is doing
>>
>

Re: Is soliciting money/rewards for 'responsible' security disclosures when none is stated a thing now?

[Kieran Murphy]

Better known as Beg Bounties.
https://www.troyhunt.com/beg-bounties/

It's a thing.

On Thu, 3 Mar 2022 at 09:32, Brie  wrote:
>
> I just got this in my e-mail...
>
> --
> From: xxx 
> Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 03:14:03 +0500
> Message-ID: 
> Subject: Found Security Vulnerability
> To: undisclosed-recipients:;
> Bcc: sxx...@ahbl.org
>
> Hi  Team
>
> I am a web app security hunter. I spent some time on your website and found
> some vulnerabilities. I see on your website you take security very
> passionately.
>
>   Tell me will you give me rewards for my finding and responsible
> disclosure? if Yes, So tell me where I send those vulnerability reports?
> share email address.
>
> Thank you
>
> Good day, I truly hope it treats you awesomely on your side of the screen :)
>
> x Security
> --
>
>
> Is soliciting for money/rewards when the site makes no indication they
> offer them a common thing now?
>
> If you want to see a copy of the original message, let me know off list
> and I'll send it to you.
>
>
> --
> Brielle Bruns
> The Summit Open Source Development Group
> http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Is soliciting money/rewards for 'responsible' security disclosures when none is stated a thing now?

[Brie]

I just got this in my e-mail...

--
From: xxx 
Date: Thu, 3 Mar 2022 03:14:03 +0500
Message-ID: 
Subject: Found Security Vulnerability
To: undisclosed-recipients:;
Bcc: sxx...@ahbl.org

Hi  Team

I am a web app security hunter. I spent some time on your website and found
some vulnerabilities. I see on your website you take security very
passionately.

 Tell me will you give me rewards for my finding and responsible
disclosure? if Yes, So tell me where I send those vulnerability reports?
share email address.

Thank you

Good day, I truly hope it treats you awesomely on your side of the screen :)

x Security
--


Is soliciting for money/rewards when the site makes no indication they 
offer them a common thing now?


If you want to see a copy of the original message, let me know off list 
and I'll send it to you.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

Re: RIR IRR interfaces

[Rubens Kuhl]

I hope more IRRs deploying IRRd 4.2 or later will increase API support
and API similarity among IRRs.
TC is one IRR actively supporting those APIs, which have both RPSL
format and JSON format options (although the request itself is a JSON
object regardless of format).


Rubens

On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 6:37 PM Jon Lewis  wrote:
>
> I wonder, do the RIR's "talk" to each other about UI?
> I'm in the middle of duplicating (moving) a bunch of route objects from
> 3rd party IRRdbs to the appropriate RIR ones, which, so far, has meant
> creating route objects in the RIRs run by APNIC, ARIN, and RIPE.
>
> User experience-wise, I'm sad to say RIPE rates last so far.
>
> I figured out how to talk to ARIN's API first so creating objects wouldn't
> have to be a whole bunch of point  It "works" and accepts
> rpsl format text for objects.
>
> Next I did some APNIC route objects, and was amazed by their route object
> import tool.  It looks at presumably a full view of the Internet and
> offers to auto-create route objects for your prefixes found in the
> table...including a checkbox for "would you like RPKI ROAs with that?"
>
> Finally I got to RIPE.  No auto-import tool.  There is an API, but it
> doesn't accept data in rpsl format, so if I want to explore it farther,
> I'll have to write something to convert rpsl route objects to either xml
> or json.
>
> --
>   Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
>   StackPath, Sr. Neteng   |  therefore you are
> _ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

RIR IRR interfaces

[Jon Lewis]

I wonder, do the RIR's "talk" to each other about UI?
I'm in the middle of duplicating (moving) a bunch of route objects from 
3rd party IRRdbs to the appropriate RIR ones, which, so far, has meant 
creating route objects in the RIRs run by APNIC, ARIN, and RIPE.


User experience-wise, I'm sad to say RIPE rates last so far.

I figured out how to talk to ARIN's API first so creating objects wouldn't 
have to be a whole bunch of point  It "works" and accepts 
rpsl format text for objects.


Next I did some APNIC route objects, and was amazed by their route object 
import tool.  It looks at presumably a full view of the Internet and 
offers to auto-create route objects for your prefixes found in the 
table...including a checkbox for "would you like RPKI ROAs with that?"


Finally I got to RIPE.  No auto-import tool.  There is an API, but it 
doesn't accept data in rpsl format, so if I want to explore it farther, 
I'll have to write something to convert rpsl route objects to either xml 
or json.


--
 Jon Lewis, MCP :)   |  I route
 StackPath, Sr. Neteng   |  therefore you are
_ http://www.lewis.org/~jlewis/pgp for PGP public key_

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Scott McGrath]

The Russians have several ASAT systems not all of them are ground based.
Remember they also have that grappler which locks onto satellites and
destroys them. I think this conflict will be the first one where some
of the battles will be fought in orbit ie the ultimate ‘high ground’ the
NATO countries have kept to the UN treaties on not militarizing space.
 Other countries well not so much

On Wed, Mar 2, 2022 at 12:35 PM Valdis Klētnieks 
wrote:

> On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said:
>
> > Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill, and
> > SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up  Yes,
> > Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.
>
> Plus  the asymmetry is even worse than that
>
> Elon can use that *same* first stage booster to launch *another* 50
> next week, while the Russians need to get a *new* booster for shooting
> down the next bird.
>
> That's the *real* game changer in what SpaceX is doing
>

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[John Levine]

It appears that Daniel Suchy via NANOG  said:
>It's also technically possible to perform full AXFR from some official 
>root-server (it's allowed on some instances) and bring your own 
>root-server locally-anycasted instance anywhere you want.

It's not just possible, it's quite common.  See RFC 8806.

I run local roots on my small networks.

R's,
John
-- 
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Bryan Fields]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA256


On 3/2/22 11:57 AM, Miles Fidelman wrote:
> There is a reason that the US Government was developing and promulgating
> things like TOR, for a while.

Turns out if you run 2/3 of the tor nodes, you can unmask people.  Governments
are not capable of being altruistic.
- -- 
Bryan Fields

727-409-1194 - Voice
http://bryanfields.net
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RE: Ukraine request yikes

[justin]

The problem with all of these sorts of things and why respectable entities like 
ICANN should avoid such things is because its inherently subjective and prone 
to a sort of viewers bias that is moulded more or less by the propaganda of the 
state from which you come (in our case, North America/US et al).

For instance, an actually unpopular opinion is that this all started when a 
lawfully elected government was overthrown by a minority of the population 
(<1%) and that the majority of Ukrainians were disenfranchised as a result. 
This was particularly acute in the Donbass region that voted for Yanukovych 
very heavily. This brought about an actual rebellion, one that is flatly denied 
by the government in Kyiv, which in turn brought about the Minsk agreement 
where the breakdown was that the rebels sought to have local elections for 
their own governors/mayors that could not be dismissed by the federal 
legislature. For whatever reason, the Government in Kyiv found this unpalatable 
and never implemented this part of the agreement until finally the ceasefire 
broke down and a formal war ensued. The point of this paragraph being that 
discerning which side is representing "democracy" is a matter of perspective.

Because the shoe could easily fit on the other foot and also be legitimately 
correct and the same argument could be made to remove TLDs for UA or supporting 
countries and because which is correct is almost always a matter of 
perspective-- its best for any such governing entity to avoid allowing itself 
to be drawn into such ordeals. 

As for their request, given that the country has more or less banned all 
periodicals in Russian from the news stand irrelevant of content, routinely 
shutdown independent media outlets and because this email simply acknowledging 
valid grievances in south eastern Ukraine could be cause for a 10 year term in 
prison if written from within Ukraine-- I will only say that I find the request 
by the government there to be "extremely consistent with Ukrainian values".


-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Matt 
Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 5:54 PM
To: George Herbert ; Nanog 
Subject: Re: Ukraine request yikes

My (unpopular opinion) Russia does not deserve any amenities of the modern 
world.  They have made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

On 3/1/22 3:16 AM, George Herbert wrote:
> Posted by Bill Woodcock on Twitter…
> https://twitter.com/woodyatpch/status/1498472865301098500?s=21
> 
> https://pastebin.com/DLbmYahS
> 
> Ukraine (I think I read as) want ICANN to turn root nameservers off, 
> revoke address delegations, and turn off TLDs for Russia.
> 
> Seems… instability creating…
> 
> -george
> 
> Sent from my iPhone

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Michael Thomas]

On 3/2/22 9:32 AM, Valdis Klētnieks wrote:

On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said:


Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill, and
SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up  Yes,
Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.

Plus  the asymmetry is even worse than that

Elon can use that *same* first stage booster to launch *another* 50
next week, while the Russians need to get a *new* booster for shooting
down the next bird.

That's the *real* game changer in what SpaceX is doing


I read this article on the upcoming Starship and it's really 
interesting. They are not only going to reuse the primary stage, but 
also the second stage. They're also going to use methane rather kerosene 
which burns much, much cleaner so they can basically just fill it all up 
again, and blast off for another.


For Starlink, they could probably put 500 a week up, maybe more.

https://everydayastronaut.com/definitive-guide-to-starship/

Mike

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Grant Taylor via NANOG]

On 3/2/22 8:53 AM, Matt Hoppes wrote:
My (unpopular opinion) Russia does not deserve any amenities of the 
modern world.  They have made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.


I think it's very important to differentiate between Russia as the 
governmental entity and Russia as the body of governed citizens.


My understanding is that many of the latter disagree with what's 
happening and don't support, or actively fight against, the current events.


The former seldom accurately reflects the will of the latter.  Not all 
Germans were Nazis and not all Americans want the border wall.


So, how do we address the former without unduly punishing the latter for 
the former's actions?




--
Grant. . . .
unix || die



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Valdis Klētnieks]

On Wed, 02 Mar 2022 08:51:05 -0500, Dorn Hetzel said:

> Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill, and
> SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up  Yes,
> Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.

Plus  the asymmetry is even worse than that

Elon can use that *same* first stage booster to launch *another* 50
next week, while the Russians need to get a *new* booster for shooting
down the next bird.

That's the *real* game changer in what SpaceX is doing


pgpNfxSUtYfvP.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Miles Fidelman]

Anybody remember the days when:

- News of the USSR's fall was leaking out over USENET?

- Folks were live posting from gas-proofed rooms in Israel, during one 
of the wars?


There is a reason that the US Government was developing and promulgating 
things like TOR, for a while.  Kind of useless if we cut the lines of 
communication.  (Of course, removing DNS records doesn't effect 
connectivity.)


Miles Fidelman


Matt Hoppes wrote:
Information sharing should increase on the ATTACKED side... it should 
DECREASE and be cut off on the non-provoked attacker's side.


On 3/1/22 3:53 AM, Matthew Petach wrote:



On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 12:19 AM George Herbert 
mailto:george.herb...@gmail.com>> wrote:


    Posted by Bill Woodcock on Twitter…
https://twitter.com/woodyatpch/status/1498472865301098500?s=21

    https://pastebin.com/DLbmYahS

    Ukraine (I think I read as) want ICANN to turn root nameservers off,
    revoke address delegations, and turn off TLDs for Russia.

    Seems… instability creating…

    -george



Information sharing should increase during wartime, not decrease.

Restricting information is more often the playbook of authoritarian 
regimes,

and not something we should generally support.

Besides, GhostWriter is based out of Belarus, not Russia proper.  ^_^;
https://www.wired.com/story/ghostwriter-hackers-belarus-russia-misinformationo/ 



Matt






--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.   Yogi Berra

Theory is when you know everything but nothing works.
Practice is when everything works but no one knows why.
In our lab, theory and practice are combined:
nothing works and no one knows why.  ... unknown

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Matt Hoppes]

That's a valid argument.

And no I don't think ISPs, ICANN, or any other organization should get 
involved in political disputes.


Where Russia has crossed the line, though, is in the way they are 
handling the situation.   You bomb/attack government 
buildings/communication infrastructure/roadways/etc.  Launch a party to 
assassinate the leaders.


You *don't* attack apartment buildings, shoot citizens that are just in 
the street, target populated areas, dress up as the other party, use 
vacuum bombs.


The problem here is not that there is a spat between Ukraine and Russia, 
the problem is that Russia has violated like 10 different things in the 
Geneva Convention on how you fight a war.


On 3/2/22 11:38 AM, justin@xor.systems wrote:

The problem with all of these sorts of things and why respectable entities like 
ICANN should avoid such things is because its inherently subjective and prone 
to a sort of viewers bias that is moulded more or less by the propaganda of the 
state from which you come (in our case, North America/US et al).

For instance, an actually unpopular opinion is that this all started when a lawfully elected 
government was overthrown by a minority of the population (<1%) and that the majority of 
Ukrainians were disenfranchised as a result. This was particularly acute in the Donbass 
region that voted for Yanukovych very heavily. This brought about an actual rebellion, one 
that is flatly denied by the government in Kyiv, which in turn brought about the Minsk 
agreement where the breakdown was that the rebels sought to have local elections for their 
own governors/mayors that could not be dismissed by the federal legislature. For whatever 
reason, the Government in Kyiv found this unpalatable and never implemented this part of the 
agreement until finally the ceasefire broke down and a formal war ensued. The point of this 
paragraph being that discerning which side is representing "democracy" is a matter 
of perspective.

Because the shoe could easily fit on the other foot and also be legitimately 
correct and the same argument could be made to remove TLDs for UA or supporting 
countries and because which is correct is almost always a matter of 
perspective-- its best for any such governing entity to avoid allowing itself 
to be drawn into such ordeals.

As for their request, given that the country has more or less banned all periodicals in 
Russian from the news stand irrelevant of content, routinely shutdown independent media 
outlets and because this email simply acknowledging valid grievances in south eastern 
Ukraine could be cause for a 10 year term in prison if written from within Ukraine-- I 
will only say that I find the request by the government there to be "extremely 
consistent with Ukrainian values".


-Original Message-
From: NANOG  On Behalf Of Matt 
Hoppes
Sent: Wednesday, March 2, 2022 5:54 PM
To: George Herbert ; Nanog 
Subject: Re: Ukraine request yikes

My (unpopular opinion) Russia does not deserve any amenities of the modern 
world.  They have made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.

On 3/1/22 3:16 AM, George Herbert wrote:

Posted by Bill Woodcock on Twitter…
https://twitter.com/woodyatpch/status/1498472865301098500?s=21

https://pastebin.com/DLbmYahS

Ukraine (I think I read as) want ICANN to turn root nameservers off,
revoke address delegations, and turn off TLDs for Russia.

Seems… instability creating…

-george

Sent from my iPhone

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Bruce H McIntosh]

On 3/2/22 10:54, Matt Hoppes wrote:

[External Email]

Information sharing should increase on the ATTACKED side... it should
DECREASE and be cut off on the non-provoked attacker's side.


Trouble is, that leads to two deleterious effects in this case:
1) The rest of the world is left with just the Putin Gov't's word on what's 
going on *in* Russia
2) The Russian people are left with just the Putin Gov't's word on what's going 
on *elsewhere*



Information sharing should increase during wartime, not decrease.

Restricting information is more often the playbook of authoritarian
regimes, and not something we should generally support.


THIS.

--

Bruce H. McIntosh
Network Engineer II
University of Florida Information Technology
b...@ufl.edu
352-273-1066

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Matt Hoppes]

Information sharing should increase on the ATTACKED side... it should 
DECREASE and be cut off on the non-provoked attacker's side.


On 3/1/22 3:53 AM, Matthew Petach wrote:



On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 12:19 AM George Herbert > wrote:


Posted by Bill Woodcock on Twitter…
https://twitter.com/woodyatpch/status/1498472865301098500?s=21

https://pastebin.com/DLbmYahS

Ukraine (I think I read as) want ICANN to turn root nameservers off,
revoke address delegations, and turn off TLDs for Russia.

Seems… instability creating…

-george



Information sharing should increase during wartime, not decrease.

Restricting information is more often the playbook of authoritarian 
regimes,

and not something we should generally support.

Besides, GhostWriter is based out of Belarus, not Russia proper.  ^_^;
https://www.wired.com/story/ghostwriter-hackers-belarus-russia-misinformationo/

Matt

Re: Ukraine request yikes

[Matt Hoppes]

My (unpopular opinion) Russia does not deserve any amenities of the 
modern world.  They have made their bed and now they have to sleep in it.


On 3/1/22 3:16 AM, George Herbert wrote:
Posted by Bill Woodcock on Twitter… 
https://twitter.com/woodyatpch/status/1498472865301098500?s=21


https://pastebin.com/DLbmYahS

Ukraine (I think I read as) want ICANN to turn root nameservers off, 
revoke address delegations, and turn off TLDs for Russia.


Seems… instability creating…

-george

Sent from my iPhone

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Tom Beecher]

>
> So they’re going to offer the service to anyone in a denied area for free
> somehow? How do you send someone a bill or how do they pay it if you can’t
> do business in the country?
>

There is a difference between a country allowing SpaceX to install a ground
station in their territory, and prohibiting anyone in a nation's banking
system from sending payments to SpaceX. The former is much simpler than the
latter, and also kinda what Musk's comment was all about.

Even today, Starlink has no ground stations in the Ukraine. However, sats
overflying Ukraine are able to hit ground stations in Lithuania, Poland,
and Turkey, so those terminals are able to work.



On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 1:36 PM Crist Clark  wrote:

> So they’re going to offer the service to anyone in a denied area for free
> somehow? How do you send someone a bill or how do they pay it if you can’t
> do business in the country?
>
> On Mon, Feb 28, 2022 at 4:39 PM Jay Hennigan  wrote:
>
>> On 2/28/22 16:17, Michael Thomas wrote:
>>
>> > As a practical matter how does this help? You need to have base
>> > stations/dishes, right? Can they be beefy ones that can pump out
>> > gigabytes that would be capable of backfilling the load? Or would it
>> > need to be multiple in parallel? Wouldn't that bandwidth be constrained
>> > by the number of visible satellites in the constellation? I wonder if
>> > they've ever even tested it with feeding into an internet facing
>> router.
>> > Could tables on the satellites explode?
>>
>> If there aren't fixed Internet-connected earth stations line-of-sight to
>> the satellite that's serving the remote terminal, Starlink will relay
>> satellite-to-satellite until a path to an Internet-connected earth
>> station is in reach.
>>
>>  From the linked article:
>>
>> "Musk has previously stressed Starlink’s flexibility of Starlink in
>> providing internet service. In September, Musk talked about how the
>> company would use links between the satellites to create a network that
>> could provide service even in countries that prohibit SpaceX from
>> installing ground infrastructure for distribution.
>>
>> As for government regulators who want to block Starlink from using that
>> capability, Musk had a simple answer.
>>
>> “They can shake their fist at the sky,” Musk said."
>>
>> --
>> Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
>> Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
>> 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
>>
>>

Re: Starlink terminals deployed in Ukraine

[Dorn Hetzel]

Yeah, if Russia needs one 1st stage booster for every bird they kill, and
SpaceX needs one 1st stage booster for every 50 they put up  Yes,
Russia is bigger than SpaceX, but that's a tremendous ratio.

On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 6:03 PM Matthew Petach  wrote:

>
>
> On Tue, Mar 1, 2022 at 11:59 AM Scott McGrath  wrote:
>
>> Starlink however forgets that Russia does have anti satellite weapons and
>> they probably will not hesitate to use them which will make low earth orbit
>> a very dangerous place when Russia starts blowing up the Starlink birds.
>> I applaud the humanitarian aspect of providing Starlink service,
>> unfortunately there are geopolitical realities like access to space which
>> is likely to be negatively impacted if and when Russia starts shooting down
>> these birds.Fortunately if they start shooting down the birds the
>> debris will burn up in a year or so unlike geosync orbit where it would
>> stay forever.
>>
>
> Anti-satellite weapons hearken from the NASA-era of satellite launches,
> which cost hundreds of millions of dollars, were planned years if not
> decades
> in advance, and would take an equivalent amount of time and money to
> replace if shot down.
>
> Note SpaceX's response when 40 out of 49 satellites were fried shortly
> after
> launch due to recent solar activity:
>
> https://www.space.com/spacex-starlink-satellites-lost-geomagnetic-storm
>
> Pretty much just a "ho hum, s**t happens, we'll make sure they burn up
> safely and don't hit anything on the way down."
>
> And then they launched another 46 birds three weeks later:
>
> https://www.kennedyspacecenter.com/launches-and-events/events-calendar/2022/february/rocket-launch-spacex-falcon-9-starlink-4-8#:~:text=Event%20Details-,Rocket%20Launch%3A%20February%2021%2C%202022%209%3A44%20AM%20EST,Falcon%209%20Starlink%204%2D8
>
> and a week after that, launched another 50 birds:
> https://www.space.com/spacex-50-starlink-satellites-launch-february-2022
>
> Sure, Russia could start shooting them down.
> But at the rate SpaceX can build and launch them, in that war of
> attrition, I'd put my money on SpaceX, not Russia--and it would
> let everyone in the world get a very detailed map of exactly what
> the capabilities and limitations of Russia's anti-satelite weaponry
> are as they fired it off dozens if not hundreds of times in a relatively
> short time period.
>
> I think people are just now waking up to how radically SpaceX has
> changed access to space.   ^_^;
>
> Matt
>
>
>