Re: V6 still not supported

2022-03-19 Thread Randy Carpenter
- On Mar 19, 2022, at 6:44 PM, Matt Hoppes mattli...@rivervalleyinternet.net wrote: > After a time of transition, all clients would be running 128 bit > addresses (or whatever length was determined to be helpful). What you describe is literally IPv6. > Just like with IPv6, there would

Re: V6 still not supported

2022-03-19 Thread Mark Delany
On 19Mar22, Matt Hoppes allegedly wrote: > So, while it's true that a 192.168.0.1 computer couldn't connect to a > 43.23.0.0.12.168.0.1 computer, without a software patch - that patch > would be very simple and quick to deploy Let's call this ipv4++ Question: How does 192.168.0.1 learn about

Re: V6 still not supported

2022-03-19 Thread John Levine
It appears that Matt Hoppes said: >Just like with IPv6, there would be a transition period, but during that >time software updates would very easily bring equipment up to spec much >faster and quicker. > >Eventually, 192.168.0.1 would be represented (for example) as >0.0.0.0.192.168.0.1 (or

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Matt Hoppes
On a public network (such as WiFi - sure). On a private network where the only authentication taking place is to the modem which is provided by the service provider, not so much. It's a closed environment. The modem demarcs to the end-user and the end-user never touches the switching

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Michael Thomas
Thanks, I didn't think that they'd something that interfered with AAA. Using a MAC address as authentication seems sort of sketch to me in the first place. Mike On 3/19/22 4:14 PM, Tom Beecher wrote: Primarily the ability to end-to-end authenticate end devices.   The primary and

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Tom Beecher
> > Primarily the ability to end-to-end authenticate end devices. The > primary and largest glaring issue is that DHCPv6 from the client does > not include the MAC address, it includes the (I believe) UUID. > DHCPv6 Option 79 https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/rfc6939 > > On Sat, Mar 19,

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Matt Hoppes
I misspoke... it's not UUID... It's DUID. This isn't a backend management issue. This is a protocol issue. The MAC of the interface needs to be sent with a DHCP request so that it can be properly authenticated to the physical device. As long as the client and DHCPv6 server are on the same

Re: V6 still not supported

2022-03-19 Thread Tom Beecher
> > So, while it's true that a 192.168.0.1 computer couldn't connect to a > 43.23.0.0.12.168.0.1 computer, without a software patch - that patch > would be very simple and quick to deploy. > Software patches are never simple and quick to deploy. In fact, a common argument from people who don't

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Michael Thomas
On 3/19/22 3:56 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: On 3/19/22 6:50 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: On 3/19/22 3:47 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: It has "features" which are at a minimum problematic and at a maximum show stoppers for network operators. IPv6 seems like it was designed to be a private network

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Matt Hoppes
On 3/19/22 6:50 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: On 3/19/22 3:47 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: It has "features" which are at a minimum problematic and at a maximum show stoppers for network operators. IPv6 seems like it was designed to be a private network communication stack, and how an ISP would

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Michael Thomas
On 3/19/22 3:47 PM, Matt Hoppes wrote: It has "features" which are at a minimum problematic and at a maximum show stoppers for network operators. IPv6 seems like it was designed to be a private network communication stack, and how an ISP would use and distribute it was a second though.

Re: IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Matt Hoppes
It has "features" which are at a minimum problematic and at a maximum show stoppers for network operators. IPv6 seems like it was designed to be a private network communication stack, and how an ISP would use and distribute it was a second though. On 3/19/22 5:29 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:

Re: V6 still not supported

2022-03-19 Thread Matt Hoppes
After a time of transition, all clients would be running 128 bit addresses (or whatever length was determined to be helpful). Just like with IPv6, there would be a transition period, but during that time software updates would very easily bring equipment up to spec much faster and quicker.

IPv6 "bloat"

2022-03-19 Thread Michael Thomas
So out of the current discussions a lot of people have claimed that ipv6 is bloated or suffers from second system syndrome, etc. So I decided to look at a linux kernel (HEAD I assume) and look at the differences between the v6 and v4 directories. I just crudely did a line count as a quick

Re: BOOTP & ARP history

2022-03-19 Thread Michael Thomas
On 3/19/22 1:44 PM, James R Cutler wrote: On Mar 19, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: IPv6 in comparison was very familiar ground. To me it seemed that it was ipv4 with bigger addresses and that was about it. But I've never understood all of the strum und drang about ipv6. As one

Re: BOOTP & ARP history

2022-03-19 Thread James R Cutler
> On Mar 19, 2022, at 2:49 PM, Michael Thomas wrote: > > IPv6 in comparison was very familiar ground. To me it seemed that it was ipv4 > with bigger addresses and that was about it. But I've never understood all of > the strum und drang about ipv6. As one tightly involved in multiprotocol

Re: BOOTP & ARP history

2022-03-19 Thread Michael Thomas
I had completely forgot about RARP! We had similar considerations when I designed the Lantronix terminal servers. We patterned them off of the DEC terminal servers on the DEC side which net loaded images (I want to think that DEC used MOP to download, but I could be wrong), but the combination

Re: BOOTP & ARP history

2022-03-19 Thread John Gilmore
Michael Thomas wrote: > There were tons of things that were slapped onto IP that were basically > experimental like ARP and bootp. CIDR didn't even exist back then. Speaking as one of the co-designers of BOOTP (RFC 951): yes, it was experimental. So why was it "slapped onto" IP? Well, in

Re: V6 still not supported

2022-03-19 Thread Saku Ytti
On Sat, 19 Mar 2022 at 03:32, wrote: > I'll mention, as I often do at this point in this conversation over > the past few decades, that nothing stops you from designing and > implementing such a network and, for demonstration / proof of concept > purposes at least, floating it on top of IP. > >