Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[bzs]

Just to put a little more flesh on that bone (having spent about a
decade going to ICANN conferences):

Although organized under ICANN, address allocation would generally be
the role of IANA which would assign address blocks to RIRs for
distribution.

It's a useful distinction because IANA and the RIRs act fairly
independently from the umbrella ICANN org unless there's some very
specific reason for, e.g., the ICANN board to interfere like some
notion that the allocation of these addresses would (literally)
threaten the stability and security of the internet, or similar.

Offhand (and following comments by people of competent jurisdiction) I
can't see why IANA or the RIRs would resist this idea in
principle. It's just more stock in trade for them, particularly the
RIRs.

Other than they (IANA, RIRs) wouldn't do this unless the IETF issued a
formal redeclaration of the use of these addresses.

Anyhow, that's roughly how the governance works in practice and has
for over 20 years.

So, I think the first major move would have to be the IETF issuing one
or more RFCs redefining the use of these addresses which would then
put them into the jurisdiction of IANA who could then issue them
(probably piecewise) to the RIRs.

On June 14, 2022 at 13:21 g...@toad.com (John Gilmore) wrote:
 > Dave Taht  wrote:
 > > > Then it was "what can we do with what we can afford" now it's more
 > > > like "What can we do with what we have (or can actually get)"?
 > > 
 > > Like, working on better software...
 > 
 > Like, deploying the other 300 million IPv4 addresses that are currently
 > lying around unused.  They remain formally unused due to three
 > interlocking supply chain problems: at IETF, ICANN, and vendors.  IETF's
 > is caused by a "we must force everyone to abandon trailing edge
 > technology" attitude.  ICANN's is because nobody is sure how to allocate
 > ~$15B worth of end-user value into a calcified IP address market
 > dominated by government-created regional monopolies doing allocation by
 > fiat.
 > 
 > Vendors have leapfrogged the IETF and ICANN processes, and most have
 > deployed the key one-line software patches needed to fully enable these
 > addresses in OS's and routers.  Microsoft is the only major vendor
 > seemingly committed to never doing so.  Our project continues to track
 > progress in this area, and test and document compatability.
 > 
 >  John
 >  IPv4 Unicast Extensions Project 

-- 
-Barry Shein

Software Tool & Die| b...@theworld.com | http://www.TheWorld.com
Purveyors to the Trade | Voice: +1 617-STD-WRLD   | 800-THE-WRLD
The World: Since 1989  | A Public Information Utility | *oo*

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Eric Kuhnke]

When I last got pricing on the MX10003 in fall 2021, I was asked if I
wanted pricing on something with exclusively 100GbE interfaces or with
10GbE capability.

I got pricing for both options.

Putting SFP+ 10GbE ports in a router of that total
chassis+RE+linecard+support contract price is an *extremely* costly
proposition on a dollar per port basis.

Would recommend that anyone who thinks they need them to look at ways to
put the 10GbE ports in some other device and attach that to the router.


On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 at 14:09, Brian  wrote:

> From Juniper...
>
> "you are correct that there isn’t a native 10G SFP+ form factor offered
> with the 304.
>
>
>
> QSA adapters are qualified (say for example, Nvidia), and from there it
> can support native 10G Bidi, WDM, etc. The economics per-port, obviously,
> get a little expensive with this approach if a lot of native 10G is needed
> and breakout isn’t an option.
>
>
>
> Thanks!"
>
>
>
> Oh and also I just got the call, Juniper is forcing a Price Hike in July.
>
> On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 9:10 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:
>
>> > The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a
>> > license-based approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting
>> > themselves in the foot.
>>
>> Unless I'm missing a trick, the MX304 doesn't have an answer to
>> installing DWDM, bidi, or other fancy optics in the SPF+ ports on the
>> MX204.  QSFP+ breakout to 4 x 10G is supported, but only 4 x vanilla 1310
>> optics - you'll need an external OEO solution if you want fancy 10G options.
>>
>> It otherwise seems a nice box on paper, although substantially more
>> expensive than the MX204.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Tim.
>>
>>
>>

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Brian]

>From Juniper...

"you are correct that there isn’t a native 10G SFP+ form factor offered
with the 304.



QSA adapters are qualified (say for example, Nvidia), and from there it can
support native 10G Bidi, WDM, etc. The economics per-port, obviously, get a
little expensive with this approach if a lot of native 10G is needed and
breakout isn’t an option.



Thanks!"



Oh and also I just got the call, Juniper is forcing a Price Hike in July.

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 9:10 AM t...@pelican.org  wrote:

> > The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a
> > license-based approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting
> > themselves in the foot.
>
> Unless I'm missing a trick, the MX304 doesn't have an answer to installing
> DWDM, bidi, or other fancy optics in the SPF+ ports on the MX204.  QSFP+
> breakout to 4 x 10G is supported, but only 4 x vanilla 1310 optics - you'll
> need an external OEO solution if you want fancy 10G options.
>
> It otherwise seems a nice box on paper, although substantially more
> expensive than the MX204.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim.
>
>
>

Re: LACNOG2022 - Call for Presentations

[Robert Story]

That link returns a 404 error. This one works:

  https://www.lacnic.net/6298/71/evento/lacnog-2022---call-for-presentations

For those that haven't attended/presented before, their conferences are
tri-lingual, with presentations in English, Spanish and Portuguese.
Their event platform has excellent support for listening to any
presentation and asking questions in your language of choice.

Regards,
Robert

On Thu 2022-06-09 08:36:15-0400 Hernan wrote:
> Dear NANOG,
> 
> LACNOG 2022 - Call for Presentations
> 
> https://www.lacnog.org/eventos/ 
> 
> LACNOG, the Latin American and Caribbean Network Operators Group,
> will hold its LACNOG 2022 conference together with the LACNIC 38
> event from 3 to 7 October 2022. This meeting will be held in person
> in the city of Santa Cruz, Bolivia (provided that the evolution of
> the epidemiological situation in the region allows). Otherwise, the
> conference will once again be held online.
> 
> The LACNOG 2022 Program Committee invites the Internet community to 
> submit their presentation proposals for the event.
> 
> In line with the spirit of LACNOG, presentations should address
> topics geared towards regional Internet development. The following is
> a non-exhaustive list of some of the topics of interest for the
> LACNOG 2022 meeting:
> 
> ●Network operation and professional experiences, success stories
> 
> ●Internet of Things
> 
> ●MANRS
> 
> ●Community networks
> 
> ●IPv6 integration and deployment
> 
> ●Experiences involving botnets, malware, spam, viruses, denial of 
> service attacks, and exploit techniques
> 
> ●IP network architecture, sizing, configuration, and administration
> 
> ●Routing and switching protocols, including unicast, multicast,
> anycast, SDN, etc.
> 
> ●End-user applications (e.g., e-mail, HTTP, DNS, NFVs, etc.)
> 
> ●Value-added services, such as VPNs, distributed systems, cloud 
> computing, etc.
> 
> ●Peering, Internet traffic exchange, IXPs
> 
> ●Network data security and management, attack mitigation
> 
> ●Network monitoring, performance, measurements, and telemetry
> 
> ●Network automation, evolution, and convergence
> 
> ●Infrastructure and physical transport, including optical and
> wireless networks
> 
> ●Legislation, regulations, and Internet governance issues
> 
> ●Research and education
> 
> Possible presentation formats include:
> 
> ●Lightning talk: brief, 10-minute presentation (including a space for
> Q).
> 
> ●Presentation: 20-minute presentation (including a space for Q).
> 
> ●Poster: includes a single-page PDF (A2 or smaller) with the basic 
> information of the presentation and a 2- to 5-minute video with the 
> presentation.
> 
> The timeline for the 2022 call for proposals will be as follows:
> 
>   * Reception of proposals: 31 May to 17 July 2022
>   * Proposals will be accepted until: 17 July 2022 at 23:59 UTC-3
> (Uruguay time)
>   * Evaluation by the Program Committee: 18 July to 7 August 2022
>   * Announcement of results: 10 August 2022
>   * Reception of final presentations: 10 August to 18 September 2022
> at 23:59 UTC-3 (Uruguay time)
>   * Event date: 3 to 7 October 2022
> 
> Applicants must submit a summary and a draft of the slides of their 
> proposed presentation along with a brief biography, for which they
> must use the form available at https://eventos.nog.lat/e/lacnog2022 
> 
> 
> If your work is selected, you authorize LACNOG and LACNIC to publish 
> your name, photograph, biography, and final work in the event program.
> 
> Speakers presenting their work at the LACNOG 2022 conference will 
> receive a certificate acknowledging their participation.
> 
> Guidelines for Submitting a Presentation for LACNOG including a 
> description of the criteria that will be considered when evaluating
> each proposal, presentation format, and other details are available
> at https://lacnog.org/seccion/postulacion-trabajos 
> 
> 
> Communications with the Program Committee will be handled through 
> p...@lacnog.org .
> 
> We thank you in advance for your attention and look forward to
> receiving your proposals for LACNOG 2022.
> 
> The Program Committee



-- 
Robert Story 
USC Information Sciences Institute 
Networking and Cybersecurity Division

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[John Gilmore]

Matthew Petach  wrote:
> https://cacm.acm.org/news/257742-german-factory-fire-could-worsen-global-chip-shortage/fulltext
> 
> That was the *sole* supplier of extreme ultraviolet lithography machines
> for every major chip manufacturer on the planet.
> 
> Chip shortages will only get worse for the next several years.  The light
> at the end of the tunnel is unfortunately *not* coming from an ultraviolet
> lithography machine.  :(

It's quite trendy (but inaccurate) to declare that everything sucks,
human life on the planet is ending, etc.  Matthew's last paragraph seems
to be one of those unduly dire conclusions, based on subsequent news
after January.  See:

  
https://www.asml.com/en/news/press-releases/2022/update-fire-incident-at-asml-berlin

  
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/19/asml-profit-beats-despite-berlin-fire-sees-20percent-sales-growth-in-2022-.html

Those with a detailed interest in the topic can speak directly with
Monique Mols, head of media relations at ASML.com, at +31 652 844 418,
or Ryan Young, US media relations manager, +1 480 205 8659.  Ryan
confirmed to me today that the latest news is in the above links: there
is expected to be no impact from the fire on ASML's extreme UV delivery
schedule.  He says they will provide a further update at their large
annual meeting in about a month.

John

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[John Gilmore]

Dave Taht  wrote:
> > Then it was "what can we do with what we can afford" now it's more
> > like "What can we do with what we have (or can actually get)"?
> 
> Like, working on better software...

Like, deploying the other 300 million IPv4 addresses that are currently
lying around unused.  They remain formally unused due to three
interlocking supply chain problems: at IETF, ICANN, and vendors.  IETF's
is caused by a "we must force everyone to abandon trailing edge
technology" attitude.  ICANN's is because nobody is sure how to allocate
~$15B worth of end-user value into a calcified IP address market
dominated by government-created regional monopolies doing allocation by
fiat.

Vendors have leapfrogged the IETF and ICANN processes, and most have
deployed the key one-line software patches needed to fully enable these
addresses in OS's and routers.  Microsoft is the only major vendor
seemingly committed to never doing so.  Our project continues to track
progress in this area, and test and document compatability.

John
IPv4 Unicast Extensions Project 

RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Tony Wicks]

>For those who may have forgotten:

> 

>https://cacm.acm.org/news/257742-german-factory-fire-could-worsen-global-chip-shortage/fulltext

 

>That was the *sole* supplier of extreme ultraviolet lithography machines for 
>every major chip manufacturer on the planet.

 

>Chip shortages will only get worse for the next several years.  The light at 
>the end of the tunnel is unfortunately *not* coming from an ultraviolet 
>lithography machine.  :(

 

 

>Matt

 

This video has a really good break down on the chip shortage as regards to 
everything that is not leading edge - 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJrOuBkYCMQ

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Matthew Petach]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 9:38 AM Adam Thompson 
wrote:

> [Not specific to the Juniper EoLs...]
>
> I sort of agree with Mark:
>
> I've been sampling a fairly wide variety of sources in various parts of
> the global supply chain, and my synthesis of what they're saying is that we
> probably won't *consistently* have the ready availability of "stuff" (both
> electronic and not) we had pre-pandemic, for the rest of my career
> (10-15yrs), and maybe not in the lifetimes of anyone reading this today,
> either.
>


For those who may have forgotten:

https://cacm.acm.org/news/257742-german-factory-fire-could-worsen-global-chip-shortage/fulltext

That was the *sole* supplier of extreme ultraviolet lithography machines
for every major chip manufacturer on the planet.

Chip shortages will only get worse for the next several years.  The light
at the end of the tunnel is unfortunately *not* coming from an ultraviolet
lithography machine.  :(

Matt

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Dave Taht]

On Tue, Jun 14, 2022 at 9:44 AM Shawn L via NANOG  wrote:
>
> With the current shortages and lead times, I almost feel like I did back in 
> the beginning of my career ---
>
>
>
> Then it was "what can we do with what we can afford" now it's more like  
> "What can we do with what we have (or can actually get)"?

Like, working on better software...

>
>
> Shawn
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Adam Thompson" 
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 12:36pm
> To: "Mark Tinka" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
> Subject: RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements
>
> [Not specific to the Juniper EoLs...]
>
> I sort of agree with Mark:
>
> I've been sampling a fairly wide variety of sources in various parts of the 
> global supply chain, and my synthesis of what they're saying is that we 
> probably won't *consistently* have the ready availability of "stuff" (both 
> electronic and not) we had pre-pandemic, for the rest of my career 
> (10-15yrs), and maybe not in the lifetimes of anyone reading this today, 
> either.
>
> Whether those sources are accurate, their interpretation is accurate, my 
> synthesis is accurate, whether I'm listening to the right people in the first 
> place... all debatable. I sure hope the above conclusion is wrong.
>
> One possible upside: it might slow down the incessant upgrade hamster-wheel 
> we're all running on? Imagine having enough time to do your job thoroughly 
> and properly... Yes, I know I'm dreaming :-).
>
>
> Adam Thompson
> Consultant, Infrastructure Services
> MERLIN
> 100 - 135 Innovation Drive
> Winnipeg, MB R3T 6A8
> (204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
> https://www.merlin.mb.ca
> Chat with me on Teams: athomp...@merlin.mb.ca
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: NANOG  On Behalf
> > Of Mark Tinka
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 11:19 AM
> > To: nanog@nanog.org
> > Subject: Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements
> >
> >
> >
> > On 6/14/22 18:06, JASON BOTHE via NANOG wrote:
> >
> > > Saw this coming a mile away. With chips and technology progressing
> > despite ability to manufacture, I’m certain many are going to do this.
> >
> > All this will do is keep these boxes off the open market, which will
> > simply bump up open market prices, with no incentive for the majority
> > of
> > folk to buy directly from the OEM.
> >
> > I suspect supply chain will improve within the next 12 months, but
> > then
> > regress and hit a massive crunch from around Q4'23 onward. How long
> > for,
> > I can't say...
> >
> > Mark.



-- 
FQ World Domination pending: https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/state_of_fq_codel/
Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Eric Kuhnke]

I think the more common solution for something like that would be to use
one 100GbE port as a trunk on a MX204 or MX304 to a directly adjacent 1U
48-port SFP+ switch in a purely L2 role used as a port expander, with
dwdm/bidi/other unique types of SFP+ optics inserted in that.




On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 at 08:08, t...@pelican.org  wrote:

> > The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a
> > license-based approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting
> > themselves in the foot.
>
> Unless I'm missing a trick, the MX304 doesn't have an answer to installing
> DWDM, bidi, or other fancy optics in the SPF+ ports on the MX204.  QSFP+
> breakout to 4 x 10G is supported, but only 4 x vanilla 1310 optics - you'll
> need an external OEO solution if you want fancy 10G options.
>
> It otherwise seems a nice box on paper, although substantially more
> expensive than the MX204.
>
> Cheers,
> Tim.
>
>
>

FCC Reminds Small Providers of June 30 STIR/SHAKEN Deadline

[Sean Donelan]

The Wireline Competition Bureau reminds non-facilities-based small voice 
service providers that they must implement the STIR/SHAKEN caller ID 
authentication framework in their Internet Protocol networks no later than 
June 30, 2022.


https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-reminds-small-providers-june-30-stirshaken-deadline

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Jared Mauch]

> On Jun 14, 2022, at 12:42 PM, Shawn L via NANOG  wrote:
> 
> With the current shortages and lead times, I almost feel like I did back in 
> the beginning of my career --- 
>  
> Then it was "what can we do with what we can afford" now it's more like  
> "What can we do with what we have (or can actually get)"?

I’m definitely feeling a bit more of this - we are seeing quite a bit of 
mismatch as well in hardware where higher speeds are coming but without a firm 
consensus around optics.  At least for the 400G space it seems to be largely 
sorted, as DR, FR and LR are all interchangeable it’s largely that receiver 
sensitivity which comes into scope, and the LR8 being there, but unlikely to 
see a lot of volume over time.

Reminds me a lot of the DS3 vs OC3 vs gigE days of “what speed, how many”, but 
at least we have bundling figured out at this point.

- Jared

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Martijn Schmidt via NANOG]

ADVA recently launched a QSFP+ transceiver with bidi support on each of its 
4x10G breakout lanes: 
https://www.adva.com/en/newsroom/press-releases/20220308-adva-launches-new-bidi-pluggable-to-minimize-cost-and-latency-in-access-networks

As for 10G DWDM optics, it's not a very efficient way to use your ports, but 
you could hypothetically use a QSFP+ to SFP+ adapter like this one if you truly 
needed to run some in your MX304 chassis: 
https://www.flexoptix.net/en/transceiver/q-pct.html

Best regards,
Martijn


From: NANOG  on behalf of 
t...@pelican.org 
Sent: 14 June 2022 17:07
To: nanog@nanog.org 
Subject: RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

> The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a
> license-based approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting
> themselves in the foot.

Unless I'm missing a trick, the MX304 doesn't have an answer to installing 
DWDM, bidi, or other fancy optics in the SPF+ ports on the MX204.  QSFP+ 
breakout to 4 x 10G is supported, but only 4 x vanilla 1310 optics - you'll 
need an external OEO solution if you want fancy 10G options.

It otherwise seems a nice box on paper, although substantially more expensive 
than the MX204.

Cheers,
Tim.

RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Shawn L via NANOG]

With the current shortages and lead times, I almost feel like I did back in the 
beginning of my career --- 
 
Then it was "what can we do with what we can afford" now it's more like  "What 
can we do with what we have (or can actually get)"?
 
Shawn

-Original Message-
From: "Adam Thompson" 
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 12:36pm
To: "Mark Tinka" , "nanog@nanog.org" 
Subject: RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements



[Not specific to the Juniper EoLs...]

I sort of agree with Mark:

I've been sampling a fairly wide variety of sources in various parts of the 
global supply chain, and my synthesis of what they're saying is that we 
probably won't *consistently* have the ready availability of "stuff" (both 
electronic and not) we had pre-pandemic, for the rest of my career (10-15yrs), 
and maybe not in the lifetimes of anyone reading this today, either.

Whether those sources are accurate, their interpretation is accurate, my 
synthesis is accurate, whether I'm listening to the right people in the first 
place... all debatable. I sure hope the above conclusion is wrong.

One possible upside: it might slow down the incessant upgrade hamster-wheel 
we're all running on? Imagine having enough time to do your job thoroughly and 
properly... Yes, I know I'm dreaming :-).


Adam Thompson
Consultant, Infrastructure Services
MERLIN
100 - 135 Innovation Drive
Winnipeg, MB R3T 6A8
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
https://www.merlin.mb.ca
Chat with me on Teams: athomp...@merlin.mb.ca

> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf
> Of Mark Tinka
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 11:19 AM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/14/22 18:06, JASON BOTHE via NANOG wrote:
> 
> > Saw this coming a mile away. With chips and technology progressing
> despite ability to manufacture, I’m certain many are going to do this.
> 
> All this will do is keep these boxes off the open market, which will
> simply bump up open market prices, with no incentive for the majority
> of
> folk to buy directly from the OEM.
> 
> I suspect supply chain will improve within the next 12 months, but
> then
> regress and hit a massive crunch from around Q4'23 onward. How long
> for,
> I can't say...
> 
> Mark.

RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Adam Thompson]

[Not specific to the Juniper EoLs...]

I sort of agree with Mark:

I've been sampling a fairly wide variety of sources in various parts of the 
global supply chain, and my synthesis of what they're saying is that we 
probably won't *consistently* have the ready availability of "stuff" (both 
electronic and not) we had pre-pandemic, for the rest of my career (10-15yrs), 
and maybe not in the lifetimes of anyone reading this today, either.

Whether those sources are accurate, their interpretation is accurate, my 
synthesis is accurate, whether I'm listening to the right people in the first 
place... all debatable.  I sure hope the above conclusion is wrong.

One possible upside: it might slow down the incessant upgrade hamster-wheel 
we're all running on?  Imagine having enough time to do your job thoroughly and 
properly...  Yes, I know I'm dreaming :-).


Adam Thompson
Consultant, Infrastructure Services
MERLIN
100 - 135 Innovation Drive
Winnipeg, MB R3T 6A8
(204) 977-6824 or 1-800-430-6404 (MB only)
https://www.merlin.mb.ca
Chat with me on Teams: athomp...@merlin.mb.ca

> -Original Message-
> From: NANOG  On Behalf
> Of Mark Tinka
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 11:19 AM
> To: nanog@nanog.org
> Subject: Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements
> 
> 
> 
> On 6/14/22 18:06, JASON BOTHE via NANOG wrote:
> 
> > Saw this coming a mile away. With chips and technology progressing
> despite ability to manufacture, I’m certain many are going to do this.
> 
> All this will do is keep these boxes off the open market, which will
> simply bump up open market prices, with no incentive for the majority
> of
> folk to buy directly from the OEM.
> 
> I suspect supply chain will improve within the next 12 months, but
> then
> regress and hit a massive crunch from around Q4'23 onward. How long
> for,
> I can't say...
> 
> Mark.

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Saku Ytti]

This is not covid issue, these parts were EOLd before anyone knew what
covid is.

I don't know yet exactly what went wrong, and may not ever know as
that information may not be available to even many at JNPR.

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 at 19:10, JASON BOTHE via NANOG  wrote:
>
> Saw this coming a mile away. With chips and technology progressing despite 
> ability to manufacture, I’m certain many are going to do this.
>
> > On Jun 14, 2022, at 11:53, Raymond Burkholder  wrote:
> >
> > On 2022-06-14 09:46, Saku Ytti wrote:
> >> These EOLd are HMC devices, Micron EOLd HMC back in 2018, no one else made 
> >> them.
> >> MX304 is a very different device than MX80, MX104, MX204. Previously
> >> these were single chip very BOM optimised devices. MX304 has YT on
> >> each card, which also means half of the YT capacity is spent on
> >> fabric. Whereas MX80, MX104 connect ports on fabric and wan side,
> >> getting 200% bps compared to fabric model.
> >> Of course BOM isn't a meaningful contributor to what customers generally 
> >> pay.
> > Holy acronym soup batman!
> >
> > Could you help me with HMC, BOM, YT?
> >
> > BOM means to me BillOfMaterials, but I'm not sure I have that correct.



-- 
  ++ytti

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Mark Tinka]

On 6/14/22 18:06, JASON BOTHE via NANOG wrote:


Saw this coming a mile away. With chips and technology progressing despite 
ability to manufacture, I’m certain many are going to do this.


All this will do is keep these boxes off the open market, which will 
simply bump up open market prices, with no incentive for the majority of 
folk to buy directly from the OEM.


I suspect supply chain will improve within the next 12 months, but then 
regress and hit a massive crunch from around Q4'23 onward. How long for, 
I can't say...


Mark.

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[JASON BOTHE via NANOG]

Saw this coming a mile away. With chips and technology progressing despite 
ability to manufacture, I’m certain many are going to do this. 

> On Jun 14, 2022, at 11:53, Raymond Burkholder  wrote:
> 
> On 2022-06-14 09:46, Saku Ytti wrote:
>> These EOLd are HMC devices, Micron EOLd HMC back in 2018, no one else made 
>> them.
>> MX304 is a very different device than MX80, MX104, MX204. Previously
>> these were single chip very BOM optimised devices. MX304 has YT on
>> each card, which also means half of the YT capacity is spent on
>> fabric. Whereas MX80, MX104 connect ports on fabric and wan side,
>> getting 200% bps compared to fabric model.
>> Of course BOM isn't a meaningful contributor to what customers generally pay.
> Holy acronym soup batman!
> 
> Could you help me with HMC, BOM, YT?
> 
> BOM means to me BillOfMaterials, but I'm not sure I have that correct.

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Saku Ytti]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 at 18:56, Raymond Burkholder  wrote:

> Could you help me with HMC, BOM, YT?

Hybrid Memory Cube, type of stacked DRAM, with shorter distance due to
stack. HMC was early contender and for some applications superior, but
HBM ended up winning the fight.
YT is the latest Trio generation, if it is acronym, I have no idea
what it is from. The EOL is about EA Trio, I believe that is from
EAgle.

> BOM means to me BillOfMaterials, but I'm not sure I have that correct.

Correct.


-- 
  ++ytti

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Raymond Burkholder]

On 2022-06-14 09:46, Saku Ytti wrote:
These EOLd are HMC devices, Micron EOLd HMC back in 2018, no one else 
made them.

MX304 is a very different device than MX80, MX104, MX204. Previously
these were single chip very BOM optimised devices. MX304 has YT on
each card, which also means half of the YT capacity is spent on
fabric. Whereas MX80, MX104 connect ports on fabric and wan side,
getting 200% bps compared to fabric model.
Of course BOM isn't a meaningful contributor to what customers generally pay.

Holy acronym soup batman!

Could you help me with HMC, BOM, YT?

BOM means to me BillOfMaterials, but I'm not sure I have that correct.

Re: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Saku Ytti]

On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 at 16:44, Mark Tinka  wrote:

> This chip shortage issue is, I think, being used as a crutch to take the p*ss.

These EOLd are HMC devices, Micron EOLd HMC back in 2018, no one else made them.

MX304 is a very different device than MX80, MX104, MX204. Previously
these were single chip very BOM optimised devices. MX304 has YT on
each card, which also means half of the YT capacity is spent on
fabric. Whereas MX80, MX104 connect ports on fabric and wan side,
getting 200% bps compared to fabric model.
Of course BOM isn't a meaningful contributor to what customers generally pay.

-- 
  ++ytti

RE: Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[t...@pelican.org]

> The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a
> license-based approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting
> themselves in the foot.

Unless I'm missing a trick, the MX304 doesn't have an answer to installing 
DWDM, bidi, or other fancy optics in the SPF+ ports on the MX204.  QSFP+ 
breakout to 4 x 10G is supported, but only 4 x vanilla 1310 optics - you'll 
need an external OEO solution if you want fancy 10G options.

It otherwise seems a nice box on paper, although substantially more expensive 
than the MX204.

Cheers,
Tim.

Re: DMARC ViolationDKIM ViolationSerious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Paschal Masha]

Totally agree. 

Perhaps another Elon Musk to streamline and scale chip manufacturing. 

Regards 
Paschal Masha | Engineering 
Skype ID: paschal.masha 


From: "Mark Tinka"  
To: "nanog"  
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2022 4:41:14 PM 
Subject: DMARC ViolationDKIM ViolationSerious Juniper Hardware EoL 
Announcements 

So Juniper have gone ahead and announced the EoL of some key devices that, 
IMHO, are nowhere near past their prime: 

- MX204 (to be replaced by the MX304) 
- MX10003 (to be replaced by the MX304) 
- PTX1000 (to be replaced by the PTX10001) 

Re: the PTX1000, I know it is a component issue that Juniper have mentioned is 
the reason for EoL'ing this. We bought a fair bit in the past 2 years, and 
technically, there is nothing wrong with them. We are going ahead with the 
PTX10001 as a replacement, because it works technically and otherwise. 

Having both the MX10003 and MX304 in the same portfolio did not make any sense 
to me, and I did challenge Juniper on this over the past several weeks as to 
what their strategy for both platforms is. I guess we now have an answer :-\. 
Pity - we started buying the MX10003 last year, but I have no problem with the 
MX304 as long as the price continues to work. 

The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a license-based 
approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting themselves in the 
foot. 

This chip shortage issue is, I think, being used as a crutch to take the p*ss. 

Mark. 

Serious Juniper Hardware EoL Announcements

[Mark Tinka]

So Juniper have gone ahead and announced the EoL of some key devices 
that, IMHO, are nowhere near past their prime:


    - MX204 (to be replaced by the MX304)
    - MX10003 (to be replaced by the MX304)
    - PTX1000 (to be replaced by the PTX10001)

Re: the PTX1000, I know it is a component issue that Juniper have 
mentioned is the reason for EoL'ing this. We bought a fair bit in the 
past 2 years, and technically, there is nothing wrong with them. We are 
going ahead with the PTX10001 as a replacement, because it works 
technically and otherwise.


Having both the MX10003 and MX304 in the same portfolio did not make any 
sense to me, and I did challenge Juniper on this over the past several 
weeks as to what their strategy for both platforms is. I guess we now 
have an answer :-\. Pity - we started buying the MX10003 last year, but 
I have no problem with the MX304 as long as the price continues to work.


The MX204 is pure shocker! Unless the MX304 will come with a 
license-based approach to run at MX204 pricing, that is Juniper shooting 
themselves in the foot.


This chip shortage issue is, I think, being used as a crutch to take the 
p*ss.


Mark.

Fwd: [lacnog] LACNOG2022 - Call for Presentations

[Carlos M. Martinez]

FYI,

Come join NANOG’s kid brother from the South ! :-)

This year’s event will be hybrid, so traveling shouldn’t be an 
issue.


Cheers!

/Carlos

Forwarded message:


From: Jorge Villa vía LACNOG 
To: Latin America and Caribbean Region Network Operators Group 


Cc: Jorge Villa 
Subject: [lacnog] LACNOG2022 - Call for Presentations
Date: Tue, 14 Jun 2022 08:52:53 -0400

LACNOG 2022 - Call for Presentations



LACNOG, the Latin American and Caribbean Network Operators Group, will 
hold its LACNOG 2022 conference together with the LACNIC 38 event from 
3 to 7 October 2022. This meeting will be held in person in the city 
of Santa Cruz, Bolivia (provided that the evolution of the 
epidemiological situation in the region allows). Otherwise, the 
conference will once again be held online.




The LACNOG 2022 Program Committee invites the Internet community to 
submit their presentation proposals for the event.




In line with the spirit of LACNOG, presentations should address topics 
geared towards regional Internet development. The following is a 
non-exhaustive list of some of the topics of interest for the LACNOG 
2022 meeting:




●Network operation and professional experiences, success 
stories


●Internet of Things

●MANRS

●Community networks

●IPv6 integration and deployment

●Experiences involving botnets, malware, spam, viruses, 
denial of service attacks, and exploit techniques


●IP network architecture, sizing, configuration, and 
administration


●Routing and switching protocols, including unicast, 
multicast, anycast, SDN, etc.


●End-user applications (e.g., e-mail, HTTP, DNS, NFVs, etc.)

●Value-added services, such as VPNs, distributed systems, 
cloud computing, etc.


●Peering, Internet traffic exchange, IXPs

●Network data security and management, attack mitigation

●Network monitoring, performance, measurements, and 
telemetry


●Network automation, evolution, and convergence

●Infrastructure and physical transport, including optical 
and wireless networks


●Legislation, regulations, and Internet governance issues

●Research and education



Possible presentation formats include:



●Lightning talk: brief, 10-minute presentation (including a 
space for Q).


●Presentation: 20-minute presentation (including a space for 
Q).


●Poster: includes a single-page PDF (A2 or smaller) with the 
basic information of the presentation and a 2- to 5-minute video with 
the presentation.




The timeline for the 2022 call for proposals will be as follows:


Reception of proposals: 31 May to 17 July 2022
Proposals will be accepted until: 17 July 2022 at 23:59 UTC-3 (Uruguay 
time)

Evaluation by the Program Committee: 18 July to 7 August 2022
Announcement of results: 10 August 2022
Reception of final presentations: 10 August to 18 September 2022 at 
23:59 UTC-3 (Uruguay time)

Event date: 3 to 7 October 2022




Applicants must submit a summary and a draft of the slides of their 
proposed presentation along with a brief biography, for which they 
must use the form available at  https://eventos.nog.lat/e/lacnog2022




If your work is selected, you authorize LACNOG and LACNIC to publish 
your name, photograph, biography, and final work in the event program.




Speakers presenting their work at the LACNOG 2022 conference will 
receive a certificate acknowledging their participation.




Guidelines for Submitting a Presentation for LACNOG including a 
description of the criteria that will be considered when evaluating 
each proposal, presentation format, and other details are available at 
https://lacnog.org/seccion/postulacion-trabajos




Communications with the Program Committee will be handled through 
p...@lacnog.org.




We thank you in advance for your attention and look forward to 
receiving your proposals for LACNOG 2022.




The Program Committee



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