RE: fire ants
I've used mothballs* in outside enclosures each spring, but I've never had a full blown nest in an enclosure.Fireants are hard to kill, but they will move their nest. * naphthalene, para-dichlorobenzene, p-dichlorobenzene, pDCB, or PDB -Original Message- From: NANOG [mailto:nanog-boun...@nanog.org] On Behalf Of Eduardo A. Suárez Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2014 2:53 PM To: NANOG Subject: fire ants Hi, it's not a joke. Here we have a fire ants nest in the fiber patch panel. Are there any DIY ways to manage that? Thanks, Eduardo.- -- Eduardo A. Suarez Facultad de Ciencias Astronómicas y Geofísicas - UNLP FCAG: (0221)-4236593 int. 172/Cel: (0221)-15-4557542/Casa: (0221)-4526589 This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program.
RE: Requirements for IPv6 Firewalls
It seems to me you are saying we should get rid of firewalls and rely on applications network security. This is so utterly idiotic I must be misunderstanding something.There are a few things we can count on in life, death, taxes, and application developers leaving giant security holes in their applications. -Original Message- From: Dobbins, Roland [mailto:rdobb...@arbor.net] Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 12:10 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Requirements for IPv6 Firewalls You can 'call' it all you like - but people who actually want to keep their servers up and running don't put stateful firewalls in front of them, because it's very easy to knock them over due to state exhaustion. In fact, it's far easier to knock them over than to knock over properly-tuned naked hosts. Also, you might want to search the NANOG email archive on this topic. There's lots of previous discussion, which boils down to the fact that serious organizations running serious applications/services don't put stateful firewalls (or 'IPS', or NATs, et. al.) in front of their servers. The only way to secure hosts/applications/service against compromise is via those hosts/applications/services themselves. Inserting stateful middleboxes doesn't actually accomplish anything to enhance confidentiality and integrity, actually increases the attack surface due to middlebox exploits (read the numerous security notices for various commercial and open-source stateful firewalls for compromise exploits), and has a negative impact on availability.
RE: ATT / Verizon DNS Flush?
Be grateful it is only 48 hours.Verzion (not Verizon Wireless) frequently has multi-week outages affecting multiple customers in the NYC area. One of the DS3s some customer circuits ride only works when there is no usage. Once there is usage massive errors occur. This has been going on for 6 - 8 weeks.Circuit usually comes back up when they test it. They admit there is a problem, they have no clue what it might be. All these customers are served out of the same CO. -Original Message- From: valdis.kletni...@vt.edu [mailto:valdis.kletni...@vt.edu] Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 12:57 PM To: Steven Briggs Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: ATT / Verizon DNS Flush? On Wed, 16 Apr 2014 10:21:34 -0600, Steven Briggs said: Yeah...I know. Unfortunately, the domain was mishandled by our registrar, who imposed their own TTLs on our zone, THEN turned it back over to us with a 48HR TTL. Which is very bad. That's almost calling for a name-and-shame.
RE: misunderstanding scale
Yes, that is exactly what IPv6 expects of us. The only surprising part is by all indications the IPv6 designers did not think this would be a problem. -Original Message- From: William Herrin [mailto:b...@herrin.us] Sent: Monday, March 24, 2014 1:14 PM To: Joe Greco Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: misunderstanding scale On Mon, Mar 24, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Joe Greco jgr...@ns.sol.net wrote: all successful security is about _defense in depth_. If it is inaccessible, unrouted, unroutable and unaddressable then you have four layers of security. If it is merely inaccessible and unrouted you have two. Time to give up two layers of meaningless security for the riches offered by the vastness of the new address space. Hi Joe, You'd expect folks to give up two layers of security at exactly the same time as they're absorbing a new network protocol with which they're yet unskilled? Does that make sense to you from a risk-management standpoint? -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
RE: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica
Make the regulation and force of arms be as targeted as reasonable. In the case of telecommunications as targeted as reasonable means the last mile or, more correctly, the local loop.I advocate stringent ongoing oversight and regulation of the local loop and very little regulation for the rest of the communications industry. If the incumbent telcos want to compete on equal footing in a free market then I invite them to give up their government granted right of ways to run their copper or fiber and compete on a level playing field. They will never do that and therefore the last mile can never be a free market. -Original Message- From: Larry Sheldon [mailto:larryshel...@cox.net] Sent: Friday, March 21, 2014 9:54 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Level 3 blames Internet slowdowns on Technica *too old, failing memory and all, I'll have to go read up on natural monopoly--I can not think of one that does not require regulation and force of arms to exist.
Looking for Juniper P-1GE-SFP-QPP in NYC area
We had a P-1GE-SFP-QPP card go out today, looking for a source in the NYC area to get it replaced ASAP. Thanks!
RE: Office 365..? how Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages
Suspecting your spouse of cheating is much different than coming home and finding them in bed with someone. -Original Message- From: Grant Ridder [mailto:shortdudey...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 11, 2013 9:40 PM To: Rodrick Brown Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Office 365..? how Microsoft handed the NSA access to encrypted messages I 2nd Rodrick's statement of so please tell me why are most people shocked with all the spying by governments?. All this leak does is confirm what most people already suspected or assumed. -Grant On Thu, Jul 11, 2013 at 6:27 PM, Rodrick Brown rodrick.br...@gmail.comwrote: : off topic rant : Just assume no data you store and or traverses any public cloud service is private or secure this is just silly. I can't believe people are so naive to believe messages sent over the public Internet isn't intercepted stored and analyzed by the same government bodies who gave it to us in the first place. I've always heard rumors as a kid that the NSA had systems long in place that could record all voice calls based on certain key phrases ever since the Nixon era so please tell me why are most people shocked with all the spying by governments? Sent from my iPhone On Jul 11, 2013, at 2:39 PM, Warren Bailey wbai...@satelliteintelligencegroup.com wrote: Anyone else planning on bailing from office365? http://m.guardian.co.uk/world/2013/jul/11/microsoft-nsa-collaboration- user-data Sent from my Mobile Device.
RE: Service provider T1/PPP question
-Original Message- From: Mike [mailto:mike-na...@tiedyenetworks.com] Sent: Friday, June 28, 2013 8:26 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Service provider T1/PPP question On 06/28/2013 12:56 PM, Naslund, Steve wrote: I think this post seems like a flashback. I would not consider a T-1 to really be broadband anymore and it is pretty much limited to a business environment the way tariffs work. As far as MLPPP, it seems to be pretty stable now where you need multiple bonded T-1s. We have a few sites running MLPPP with Sprint on Juniper and Cisco gear and have not had an issue with it. It is definitely not my preference for business connectivity anymore. We tend to look for Ethernet service which is way cheaper per mb than T-1 and requires less expensive terminal equipment in most cases. T-1s are the business solution where you need dedicated MPLS connectivity and fiber transport is not available. DSL or Internet VPN are OK but somewhat less stable for business class private network solutions. If it is internet connectivity they want you will get beaten up by the cable companies that can outrun and outprice you across the board. You will also have a heck of a time competing with incumbent and competitive telecoms in T-1s that have central offices or collocations in central offices. The economics just don't work if you don't have direct access to the cable plant. Maybe up until the telecom act but not now. How do you intend to get those T-1s back to you or are you a CLEC? I am a clec with colocated facilities, and my targets are rural unserved areas where none of the factors above are considerations. I just want to connect with anyone who's done this and has a qualified technical opinion on optimal deployment strategies; the business considerations are already done. Most T-1 service these days seems to be delivered over HDSL. You may also want to consider EoC. XO uses Adtran CPEs for their EoC service, anything from 1.5Mbps to 20Mbps service over 1 or more copper pairs with good distances between repeaters.
RE: Louisiana Optical Network Initiative
Blocking ICMP packet-too-big packets (or other ICMP which might break PMTU) on your firewall, perhaps? -Original Message- From: Thomas Cannon [mailto:tcan...@beatsmusic.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2013 5:55 PM To: John D Caffery Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Louisiana Optical Network Initiative Hijacked DNS to steal login credentials perhaps? -tc On May 2, 2013, at 10:35 AM, John D Caffery jcaff...@lsu.edu wrote: I am sending this query on behalf of the University of New Orleans. For the past couple of weeks users on their campus are unable to get logged on to the Capital One Online Banking Secure Portal to do their online banking. The UNO AS number is 23666 and LONI, which I am part of, is their internet provider, AS number 32440. None of our other Louisiana Participants seem to have an issue getting there and every test I do from other locations in our network are successful. Users can get to the https://onlinebanking.capitalone.com site but after putting in their login credentials the site simply times out. Capital One peers with both Verizon and ATT but when I go to the above site it is via Verizon. Does anyone know of or have this issue also? I have a ticket open with Verizon but have yet to get a response. I was speaking with a representative from Capital One but after leaving several voice mails I have yet to get a call back. Thank you in advance for anyone's assistance, John Caffery Information Technology Consultant Louisiana Optical Network Initiative - LONI O 225.578.7263 C 225.252.3046 www.loni.orghttp://www.loni.org/
RE: KVM
We have an Adderlink box. It sometime doesnnnt see ey up events. -Original Message- From: Derrick H. [mailto:na...@lacutt.com] Sent: Tuesday, April 23, 2013 6:02 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: KVM On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 05:36:37PM -0400, shawn wilson wrote: I'm looking at an IP-KVM. I don't need anything high res as I only need to see Linux consoles, BIOS, and RAID. What I am looking for: Non-Java client that runs on Linux (or a WebUI that will deploy a decent RDP or VNC session over SSL). Decent/configurable key mappings (ie, I've had a KVM a while ago where you had to pull down a menu for F-keys - not cool). Decently priced dongles (say ~$100?) I've never used this but saw it mentioned on a mailing list and wished we hadn't already purchased something else: http://us.adder.com/products/adderlink-ipeps It uses the VNC protocol. We'd already purchased the SpiderDuo from Lantronix which is reliant upon a Java Webstart client (unfortunately) but works well: http://www.lantronix.com/it-management/kvm-over-ip/securelinx-spiderduo.html Derrick
RE: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?
Can anyone out there in NANOGland confirm how ILECs currently backhaul their DSL customers from the DSLAM to the ILECs IP network? -Original Message- From: Masataka Ohta [mailto:mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 2:51 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2? Eric Wieling wrote: I don't think it is that much more expensive to allow other ISPs an ATM PVC into their network. Wrong, which is why ATM has disappeared. ATM may not be the best technology to do this, It is not. but the basic concept is not bad. It is not enough, even if you use inexpensive Ethernet. See the subject. What *I* want as an ISP is to connect to customers, You may. However, the customers care cost for you to do so, a lot. L1 unbundling allows the customers to choose an ISP with best (w.r.t. cost, performance, etc.) L2 and L3 technology, whereas L2 unbundling allows ILECs choose stupid L2 technologies such as ATM or PON, which is locally best for their short term revenue, which, in the long run, delays global deployment of broadband environment, because of high cost to the customers. Masataka Ohta
RE: Interesting debugging: Specific packets cause some Intel gigabit ethernet controllers to reset
I have come to believe the Intel 82574L is the worst Ethernet chip in the universe.We had horrible issues with it (random bursts of dropped packets showing in ifconfig). We ended up simply putting a card based on a different chip into our systems and all our issues went away. -Original Message- From: Blake Dunlap [mailto:iki...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 3:40 PM To: Kristian Kielhofner Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Interesting debugging: Specific packets cause some Intel gigabit ethernet controllers to reset Wow, you just solved my issue with my firewall. On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 2:33 PM, Kristian Kielhofner k...@kriskinc.comwrote: Over the year I've read some interesting (horrifying?) tales of debugging on NANOG. It seems I finally have my own to contribute: http://blog.krisk.org/2013/02/packets-of-death.html The strangest issue I've experienced, that's for sure. -- Kristian Kielhofner
RE: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?
Putting routers and DLAMs each CO is simply not affordable for any but the largest providers like XO.I expect Japan with its compact population centers may be different, but in the USA there are not enough people connected to any but the largest COs to make it affordable.I'm not stuck on using ATM (I used it only as an example), any L2 technology will work. One of our providers uses an Ethernet VLAN per customer endpoint and hands off bunches of VLANs to us over fiber. -Original Message- From: Masataka Ohta [mailto:mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp] Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 4:48 PM To: Scott Helms Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2? Scott Helms wrote: Actually, at the level that Eric's discussing there isn't any real drawback to using ATM. High cost is the real drawback. but the basic concept is not bad. It is not enough, even if you use inexpensive Ethernet. See the subject. Why? Because, for competing ISPs with considerable share, L1 unbundling costs less. They can just have routers, switches and DSL modems in collocation spaces of COs, without L2TP or PPPoE, which means they can eliminate cost for L2TP or PPPoE. Masataka Ohta
RE: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?
In the past the ISP simply needed a nice big ATM pipe to the ILEC for DSL service. The ILEC provided a PVC from the customer endpoint to the ISP. As understand it this is no longer the case, but only because of non-technical issues. We currently use XO, Covad, etc to connect to the customer We get a fiber connection to them and the provide use L2 connectivity to the custom endpoint using an Ethernet VLAN, Frame Relay PVC, etc complete with QoS. I assume XO, etc use UNE access to the local loop. There is no reason a Muni can't do something similar. -Original Message- From: Masataka Ohta [mailto:mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:17 PM To: Scott Helms Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2? note that a phone company often had several central offices to cover their territory in the time before there were remotes (Digital Loop Carriers). Each CO has its own MDF, where competing ISPs must have their routers. No different from competing ISPs using DSL or PON.
RE: Muni fiber: L1 or L2?
The ILECs basically got large portions of the 1996 telecom reform rules gutted via lawsuits. DSL unbundling was part of this. See http://quello.msu.edu/sites/default/files/pdf/wp-05-02.pdf The ILECs already need a DSLAM in each CO and already use ATM PVCs to provide L2 connectivity from the DSLAM to their IP network, I don't think it is that much more expensive to allow other ISPs an ATM PVC into their network. ATM may not be the best technology to do this, but the basic concept is not bad. Ethernet VLANs would be another option, as would Frame Relay, as would simply DAXing multiple 64k channels from the customer endpoint to the ISP if you want more L1 style connectivity. What *I* want as an ISP is to connect to customers, I don't care what the local loop is. It could be fiber, twisted pair, coax, or even licensed wireless and hand it off to me over a nice fat fiber link with a PVC or VLAN or whatever to the customer endpoint. What I don't want is to have to install equipment at each and every CO I want to provide service out of. This would be astoundingly expensive for us. -Original Message- From: Masataka Ohta [mailto:mo...@necom830.hpcl.titech.ac.jp] Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 7:42 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Muni fiber: L1 or L2? Eric Wieling wrote: In the past the ISP simply needed a nice big ATM pipe to the ILEC for DSL service. The ILEC provided a PVC from the customer endpoint to the ISP. As understand it this is no longer the case, but only because of non-technical issues. The non-technical issue is *COST*! No one considered to use so expensive ATM as L2 for DSL unbundling, at least in Japan, which made DSL in Japan quite inexpensive. We currently use XO, Covad, etc to connect to the customer We get a fiber connection to them and the provide use L2 connectivity to the custom endpoint using an Ethernet VLAN, Frame Relay PVC, etc complete with QoS. I assume XO, etc use UNE access to the local loop. There is no reason a Muni can't do something similar. Muni can. However, there is no reason Muni can't offer L1 unbundling. Masataka Ohta
RE: why haven't ethernet connectors changed?
The only thing I would change about RJ-45 is a longer tab (but make it optional) for when you care more about ease of removal than cable tangles. Polycom phones are hell to try and unplug the RJ-45, for example. -Original Message- From: Naslund, Steve [mailto:snasl...@medline.com] Sent: Friday, December 21, 2012 11:43 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: RE: why haven't ethernet connectors changed? Please, no connectors that do not lock into place. Is plugging in the RJ-45 that much of a task? Most portable devices are going wireless in any case so they are not an issue. The RJ-45 has worked OK for me. The AUI connectors have a special place in networking hell. What an incredibly horrible mechanical design they were? The flip side of the question is why you think the RJ-45 should change. You could argue that you don't usually need all eight wires but every time we tried that argument someone came up with a compelling reason to use more wires. I like that it is very standard. In the fiber world it is a continuous issue of hybrid patch cords dealing with ST,SC,LC and all the other variants out there. It would be a huge nightmare if the same thing happened with copper Ethernet. I am also not a huge fan of the USB connector because I have seen a lot of those break and there is no positive retention. Magnetic is cute but has no place in a datacenter and even with desktops I can picture a lot of support calls because someone bumps a wire that knocks the mag connector out of place. I really hate dongles of all types but I guess you don't really have a choice with devices so physically thin that you can't get the jack in there. I think I will keep the RJ for now. Steven Naslund -Original Message- From: Aled Morris [mailto:al...@qix.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2012 12:38 PM To: Michael Thomas Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: why haven't ethernet connectors changed? On 20 December 2012 18:20, Michael Thomas m...@mtcc.com wrote ethernet connectors haven't changed that I'm aware in pretty much 25 years. 15-pin D-type AUI connectors with slide latches? BNC for thinwire? I do agree though, something more like mini-USB would be more appropriate for home Ethernet use. Aled
RE: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can.
-Original Message- From: Peter Kristolaitis [mailto:alte...@alter3d.ca] Sent: Friday, November 30, 2012 4:53 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: William was raided for running a Tor exit node. Please help if you can. (Note: I don't mean to imply that all cops are power hungry mouth-breathers intent on destroying the lives of citizens. Most cops are fundamentally good people and do a great job. But like every other profession, there ARE bad cops out there, and it's within the realm of possibility that you'll deal with one of them one day.) Power corrupts and cops have power.What scares me is that there is no way *I* can tell the difference between a cop who accepts free coffee from the local café and a cop who will lie to get what they want.
RE: guys != gender neutral
Since we all know that on the Internet the men are men, the women are men, and
the children are FBI agents, I think saying guys is OK.
-Original Message-
From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com]
Sent: Thursday, September 27, 2012 3:39 PM
To: NANOG
Subject: Re: guys != gender neutral
- Original Message -
From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com
When did people stop being an acceptable gender-neutral substitute
for {guys,gals}?
As a form of address. Hey, people is ... well, nearly abrasive. (Envision a
waitron walking up to a mixed table of 10.)
Cheers,
-- jra
--
Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100
Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA #natog +1 727 647 1274
RE: URGENT - ISP/Telecom
Heh, yesterday I received notification from Verizon that they replaced plastic bags, bubble wrap and electrical tape with a real enclosure. -Original Message- From: John Mitchell [mailto:mi...@illuminati.org] Sent: Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:36 PM To: NANOG list (nanog@nanog.org) Subject: Re: URGENT - ISP/Telecom On 25/09/12 17:31, Joe Abley wrote: On 2012-09-25, at 11:49, Olivier CALVANO o.calv...@gmail.com wrote: I am looking for an operator that can build a ADSL or SDSL in record time. I just pulled a 2-metre pair of copper between a modem and a DSLAM in the lab, and I can ping things. Total elapsed time 12 minutes (I stopped on the way for coffee). Do I win $5? Joe I think your disqualified for not wrapping it in black trash bags, pink bubble wrap, or duck tape like we've seen some other vendors do in recent months on nanog.
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months. What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a Class 1 inspection, then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month. -Original Message- From: William Herrin [mailto:b...@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard w...@typo.org wrote: On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, keep it working until you can do it right. Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task. Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
They throw complaints from Resale CLECs in the trash. I'm starting to think we should convert the line to VZ Direct, then have the customer file PUC complaints, then convert it back when the issue is really resolved. I suspect that is illegal though and we are not going to do that. -Original Message- From: sme...@gmail.com [mailto:sme...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Steve Meuse Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 12:31 PM To: Eric Wieling Cc: William Herrin; Wayne E Bouchard; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags Contact your Public Utility Commission, they tend to respond better when there are formal complaints documented. -Steve On Wed, Aug 22, 2012 at 12:21 PM, Eric Wieling ewiel...@nyigc.com wrote: The garbage bags have been on that pole for at least 6+ months. What will end up happening is what happens every time something like this happens. We call in trouble tickets for months until we can get the issue labeled chronic, then we get a Class 1 inspection, then they fix it. One issue is that to get it labeled chronic there needs to be three tickets opened within a month. VZ's temp fix often works long enough that we can't get enough tickets in within a month. -Original Message- From: William Herrin [mailto:b...@herrin.us] Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 11:58 AM To: Wayne E Bouchard Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, Aug 20, 2012 at 7:17 PM, Wayne E Bouchard w...@typo.org wrote: On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/ To be fair, this sort of thing does happen from time to time in perfectly legitimate situations. In some cases, parts need to be acquired or maintenance schedules need to be arranged in order to do a propper repair. So just because you see these, don't immediately think it is bad techs rather than a temporary, keep it working until you can do it right. Uh... no. Quick hacks happen from time to time to keep things running. Layers upon layers of quick hacks that are never cleaned up (see picture) happen through incompetence. If not on the part of the techs then on the part of the managers who rushed the techs onward to the next task. Always time to do it over, never time to do it right == incompetent. Regards, Bill Herrin -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
RE: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies
This is an example of what is really wrong. The install tech usually does a good job (there are exceptions, of course), but then the outside plant people drop the ball. I appreciate it when a repair or install tech does whatever is needed to get the service up and running. What I don't appreciate is when the outside plant people don't bury the cable or don't fix the pedestal or whatever other thing is needed to keep problems from happening again and again and again. -Original Message- From: Robert E. Seastrom [mailto:r...@seastrom.com] Sent: Tuesday, August 21, 2012 11:01 AM To: Thomas Nadeau Cc: North American Network Operators' Group; Joe Greco Subject: Re: Comcast vs. Verizon for repair methodologies You're lucky. Verizon did a great job installing mine (ONT on the backboard I put in the basement for them, handoff on ethernet rather than MOCA, etc) but somehow never managed to get around to dispatching anyone to actually install the permanent fiber drop (despite multiple calls). Fast-forward four months. I'd narrowly avoided messing up the temporary fiber with the lawnmower (going so far as to put orange paint on the lawn myself), but no such luck when they harvested the corn next door. Yes, my fiber got cut by a combine. You can't make this stuff up. Second time around, they did in fact manage to get the fiber buried, where I wanted it even. Had to meet with the construction survey guy, who was more than happy to put the white paint where I wanted it. -r Thomas Nadeau tnad...@lucidvision.com writes: My VZ FioS install was similarly fantastic. Those guys have figured out that spending a little more time, effort and cable (cat6 in the case of VZ) goes a long, long way in keeping customers happy. --Tom On Aug 20, 2012:7:43 PM, at 7:43 PM, Randy Bush ra...@psg.com wrote: on bainbridge, i replaced centurystink dsl (756k/256k for $65/mo) with comcast (20m/4m for $50/mo). the installer was a knarly old dog, and damned competent. he cleaned up old cable on the pole and where it went underground to the house. he cleaned up the box and replaced in-house junctions. then he accidentally left 8m of coax to get from the in-wall cable outlet to my 'puter area, and rode off in his white van into the sunset. now if i could get that kind of professionalism from twt in hawaii ... randy
Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
RE: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags
Unfortunately, the lines are being resold by a CLEC. My understanding is the PUC/PSC doesn't take complaints from CLECs and, since the customer is customer of the CLEC, any complaints which are filed go against the CLEC, not Verizon. -Original Message- From: Justin M. Streiner [mailto:strei...@cluebyfour.org] Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 3:41 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon's New Repair Method: Plastic Garbage Bags On Mon, 20 Aug 2012, Joel Esler wrote: Can we all just agree that the whole pole needs to be restrung? That's horrible! Agreed, but Verizon and whoever happens to be on that pole are pretty unlikely to do that unless pushed. The NY Public Service Commission might find the state of what's on that pole interesting, particularly with supporting documentation (trouble history, pole number/location, etc). jms On Aug 20, 2012, at 3:25 PM, Harry Hoffman hhoff...@ip-solutions.net wrote: What? That's totally legit. Look! There's even bubble wrap there for cushioning! ;-) On 08/20/2012 03:09 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: For a while we have had a customer with some lines which go down every time it rains. We put in the trouble ticket, a couple of days later Verizon says the issue is resolved...until the next time it rains. The customer sent us some pictures today of the pole outside their office. The repair appears to be wrapping some plastic bags around something up on the pole. Here is link to the pictures the customer sent us, in case anyone in the mood for a good scare. http://rock.nyigc.net/verizon/
RE: Testing 1gbps bandwidth
Is there a speedtest.net-like site you like? -Original Message- From: Nick Hilliard [mailto:n...@foobar.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 14, 2012 11:09 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Testing 1gbps bandwidth On 14/08/2012 15:43, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: case trying to use one of the speedtest.net servers - we had a clear 10G path out through like 3 AS's in a row, the bottleneck was speedtest.net's server. :) you'll have to forgive me for being the cynical type, but I gave up on Speedtest the day they reported 146Mbit/sec download over a link which was hard-wired to 100Mbit/sec full duplex, and later that day they reported 2Mbit from another nearby server to the same box. I figured a stddev of 2 orders of magnitude wasn't going to give me figures accurate enough for my requirements. But hey, this is the Internet: ymmv, ianal, lolwut, bbq. Nick
RE: cost of misconfigurations
I do not think occasional outages cause significant loss of customers. Customers get angry easily, but once an issue is fixed, they get happy quickly. Customers have very short memories and the cost and hassle of changing services is often significant. Outages are never good, but it is better to concentrate on fixing the issue than panic about customers canceling their service. Many times the cause of an outage is totally out of your control. For example, most of our outages are caused by Verizon's aging and neglected copper cable plant. I often wish some company had the balls to file a class action lawsuit over Verizon's neglect of their copper plant, but NOBODY wants to piss off their ILEC, including us. -Original Message- From: Diogo Montagner [mailto:diogo.montag...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, August 01, 2012 8:32 PM To: Darius Jahandarie; Murat Yuksel; nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: cost of misconfigurations Hi Darius, You are right. The lost of a customer due to those things. However, I would classify this as an unknown situation (in terms of risk analisys) because the others I mentioned are possible to calculate and estimate (they are known). But it is very hard to estimate if a customer will cancel the contract because 1 or n network outages. In theory, if the customer SLA is not being met consecutively, there is a potential probability he will cancel the contract. Regards On 8/2/12, Darius Jahandarie djahanda...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Aug 1, 2012 at 8:08 PM, Diogo Montagner diogo.montag...@gmail.com wrote: A misconfiguration will, at least, impact on two points: network outage and re-work. For the network outage, you have to use the SLAs to calculate the cost (how much you lost from the customers' revenue) due to that outage. On the other hand, there is the time efforts spent to fix the misconfiguration. Under the fix, it could be removing the misconfig and applying a new one correct. Or just fixing the misconfig targeting the correct config. This re-work will translate in time, and time can be translated in money spent. Isn't the largest cost omitted (or at least glossed over) here? Namely, lost customers due to the outage. That's why people have SLAs and rework the network at all -- to avoid that cost. -- Darius Jahandarie -- Sent from my mobile device ./diogo -montagner JNCIE-SP 0x41A
RE: Domain changer statistics by ASN
A report for a day other than the 4th of July would be very helpful. -Original Message- From: Andrew Fried [mailto:andrew.fr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:26 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Domain changer statistics by ASN As many of you probably know, the replacement nameservers operated on behalf of the FBI for the Domain Changer Working Group (DCWG) are scheduled to go down Sunday morning (GMT). Yesterday, July 4th, was a holiday in the US, and as such the US based activity hitting the DCWG nameservers was uncharacteristically low. The numbers seen in the rest of the world were normal. I'm attaching a report that shows the number of unique ip addresses that were seen hitting the DCWG nameservers from the 4th based on ASN. If you control one of the ASNs seen in the list please remind your folks that these numbers need to come down by Sunday. if you find this of use, I can regenerate new reports later this afternoon with data from the 5th. Andy -- Andrew Fried andrew.fr...@gmail.com
RE: Domain changer statistics by ASN
July 2nd might be the most accurate. For our customers, July 3rd, 4th, and today have been low volume days because of the holiday. I suspect the same is true for many providers in the USA. -Original Message- From: Andrew Fried [mailto:andrew.fr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:45 PM To: Eric Wieling Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Domain changer statistics by ASN We have data going back to November 8, 2011. Generating a report of over 2,000 ASNs, by day, would be too large an attachment for NANOG. I'll produce a follow up report in less than 3 hours with data from July 5th. Would that help? Andy Andrew Fried andrew.fr...@gmail.com On 7/5/12 5:42 PM, Eric Wieling wrote: A report for a day other than the 4th of July would be very helpful. -Original Message- From: Andrew Fried [mailto:andrew.fr...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2012 5:26 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Domain changer statistics by ASN As many of you probably know, the replacement nameservers operated on behalf of the FBI for the Domain Changer Working Group (DCWG) are scheduled to go down Sunday morning (GMT). Yesterday, July 4th, was a holiday in the US, and as such the US based activity hitting the DCWG nameservers was uncharacteristically low. The numbers seen in the rest of the world were normal. I'm attaching a report that shows the number of unique ip addresses that were seen hitting the DCWG nameservers from the 4th based on ASN. If you control one of the ASNs seen in the list please remind your folks that these numbers need to come down by Sunday. if you find this of use, I can regenerate new reports later this afternoon with data from the 5th. Andy -- Andrew Fried andrew.fr...@gmail.com
Cat Humor
I'm not looking for help, just thought this was hilarious. Mark called in from XO he stated a tech was on site and found out that client used a CAT 6 cable instead of a CAT 5 cable and XO doesn't have a connecting piece for the CAT 6 cable. he stated if client gets a wire/cable guy out there to fix issue, XO can send out a tech to make sure they hook up everything correctly.
RE: Need (to acquire or sell) IPv4? Come to SpaceMarket.
Anyone who spams, regardless of how great their product is, does not get my business nor the business of anyone else who will listen to me. -Original Message- From: Scott Howard [mailto:sc...@doc.net.au] Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2012 12:16 AM To: Timothy McGinnis Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Need (to acquire or sell) IPv4? Come to SpaceMarket. On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 5:16 PM, Timothy McGinnis mc...@isc.org wrote: Dear Unnamed person at The SpaceMarket, He appears to not be unnamed. Gmail links the user to the Google+ profile https://plus.google.com/116655492141266828122 under the name Dan Cooper, and with a photo of another Dan Cooper, being http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._B._Cooper Yup, that's the type of person you want to be buying IPv4 addresses off... Scott.
RE: Operation Ghost Click
I doubt the g729 or GSM codecs used by VoIP and Cell phones can compare to a POTS line. -Original Message- From: Christopher Morrow [mailto:morrowc.li...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, May 02, 2012 3:43 PM To: Jeroen van Aart Cc: NANOG list Subject: Re: Operation Ghost Click wow, 1990 much? are you actually just trolling today perhaps?
RE: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al)
-Original Message- From: Keegan Holley [mailto:keegan.hol...@sungard.com] Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2012 1:41 PM To: Jared Mauch Cc: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: last mile, regulatory incentives, etc (was: att fiber, et al) 2012/3/22 Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net On Mar 22, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Keegan Holley wrote: 2012/3/22 Jared Mauch ja...@puck.nether.net On Mar 22, 2012, at 11:05 AM, chris wrote: I'm all for VZ being able to reclaim it as long as they open their fiber which I don't see happening unless its by force via government. At the end of the day there needs to be the ability to allow competitors in so of course they shouldnt be allowed to rip out the regulated part and replace it with a unregulated one. Maybe I'm missing something, but how exactly does one share fiber? Isn't it usually a closed loop between DWDM or Sonet nodes? It doesn't seem fair to force the incumbents to start handing out lambdas and timeslots to their competitors on the business side. I guess passive optical can be shared depending on the details of the network, but that would still be much different than sharing copper pairs. You agree on a price per distance (e.g.: mile/foot/whatnot). Lets say the cable costs $25k to install for the distance of 5000 feet. That cable has 144 strands. You need access to one strand. If you install it yourself, it will cost you $25k. If you share the pro-rata cost, it comes out around $174 for that strand. Lets say they mark it up 10x (profit, unused strands), would you pay $1740 for access? What does emergency restoration cost? I agree, but what if it's not as simple as a bunch of strands in a conduit. What if the plant is part of some sort of multiplexed network or GPON solution. That's alot harder to share with another carrier . But yes if it's simple stands of glass not plugged into anything in particular it can be shared just like copper. Alot of the fiber plant out there isn't used this way though. WDM/DWDM add cost to that strand, but also increase the capacity based on what your overall lit capacity may be on a route. There are various cwdm/dwdm systems that range the usual 10/20/40/80/100km ranges. You obviously need to do the math yourselves on this. You may find the ROI is better than you think... This is different than sharing cables. Any long distance carrier is still free to purchase service from any LEC. The term sharing fiber seemed to imply that it's freely transferable from one company to the next. It largely isn't though, which is why I think the FCC hasn't touched it yet. -- Verizon has no problem delivering service via fiber with a DSX-1 or Ethernet handoff. We simply want that service backhauled to us just like all our customers with service over copper with DSX-1 or Ethernet handoff.
RE: Looking for some diversity in Alabama that does not involve ATT Fiber
I don't know about ATT, but Verizon physically removes the copper connections when they install fiber into a building. Oddly, this is legal. Verizon is required to open up their copper to CLECs, but not fiber. The only option at that point is cable or wireless. -Original Message- From: Joe Maimon [mailto:jmai...@ttec.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 11:45 AM To: North American Networking and Offtopic Gripes List Subject: Looking for some diversity in Alabama that does not involve ATT Fiber Hey All, I have a site in Alabama that could really use some additional diversity, but apparently ATT fiber is the only game in town. If anybody has any options, such as fixed wireless in the 10-50mbs, please reply to me, off-list. Best, Joe
RE: Looking for some diversity in Alabama that does not involve ATT Fiber
Verizon, the copper wireline company, is removing service from locations EVERY TIME VZ fiber is installed in a building. This prevents other companies from providing service by leasing Verizon's copper infrastructure. If there was copper at a location then VZ would be required to resell it and nobody would be locked out. We often get customers in buildings lit by Verizon fiber service who want to change carriers. Too bad they can't anymore. Technically they can switch providers. Verizon will remove the fiber, re-install copper, and have the customer down for a week or so. If Verizon was not a wireline monopoly I might not have such an issue with this practice. Full Disclosure: I work for a CLEC. -Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 12:22 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: Looking for some diversity in Alabama that does not involve ATT Fiber - Original Message - From: Eric Wieling ewiel...@nyigc.com I don't know about ATT, but Verizon physically removes the copper connections when they install fiber into a building. Oddly, this is legal. Verizon is required to open up their copper to CLECs, but not fiber. The Verizon *regulated ILEC operating company* is required to provide equal access. FiOS comes from an unregulated subsidiary. Whether there might be some illegal collusion in the unreg subsid generating a pull order for a copper service from the regulated LEC is one thing... but why would it otherwise be illegal for the LEC to pull the copper? It *is* their copper... That's an interesting perception, and I'm curious where you came by it. Cheers, -- jra -- Jay R. Ashworth Baylink j...@baylink.com Designer The Things I Think RFC 2100 Ashworth Associates http://baylink.pitas.com 2000 Land Rover DII St Petersburg FL USA http://photo.imageinc.us +1 727 647 1274
RE: Verizon, FiOS, and CLEC/UNE orders (was ATT diversity)
-Original Message- From: Michael Thomas [mailto:m...@mtcc.com] Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2012 3:16 PM To: Jay Ashworth Cc: NANOG Subject: Re: Verizon, FiOS, and CLEC/UNE orders (was ATT diversity) On 03/21/2012 11:58 AM, Jay Ashworth wrote: - Original Message - From: Eric Wielingewiel...@nyigc.com Verizon, the copper wireline company, is removing service from locations EVERY TIME VZ fiber is installed in a building. This prevents other companies from providing service by leasing Verizon's copper infrastructure. If there was copper at a location then VZ would be required to resell it and nobody would be locked out. TTBOMK, whether Verizon has copper to a building has *no bearing at all* on whether a CLEC can place an order for wholesale service to that location; VZN is *required* to provide that wholesale service, at the regulated NRC and MRC rates, whether they currently happen to have the physical facilities in place or not -- are you alleging either that I've misunderstood that, or that VZN is refusing such orders *simply* because they've removed facilities to an address where FiOS has done an install? Cause either of those ought to violate the rules. So if Verizon is on the hook to support the CLEC's, why are they pulling the local loop? I'm sure it isn't free to pull it and certainly not to reinstall it, so what might be their motivation? Mike == They are required to reinstall copper in many cases. The problem is that the FIOS is removed before the copper is reinstalled (as far as I can tell this is Policy), leading to several days, often a week or more, of downtime for the customer. They count on the fact no customer in their right mind would consider a week of downtime acceptable.
RE: How to begin making my own ISP?
I think the question was far too vague. The first thing you need to start an ISP is LOTS OF MONEY. -Original Message- From: hass...@hushmail.com [mailto:hass...@hushmail.com] Sent: Friday, September 16, 2011 2:10 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: How to begin making my own ISP? No one replied with any useful information. I guess no one wants competition on this list? Pretty poor tactic. On Sat, 10 Sep 2011 21:55:01 -0400 hass...@hushmail.com wrote: I want to begin making my own ISP, mainly for high speed servers and such, but also branching out to residential customers. I'm going to be in Germany for the next school year (probably either Frankfurt am Main or Berlin); any suggestions on what sort of classes I can take there that will be in English and will teach me all I need to know on how to build and manage my own ISP, AS, etc? Thanks.
RE: What do you do when your Home ISP is down?
Obligatory xkcd http://xkcd.com/806/ -Original Message- From: Jay Nakamura [mailto:zeusda...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2011 2:06 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: What do you do when your Home ISP is down? Anyway, one time, I had a problem with a DSL line with ATT, which had a trouble ticket from a storm taking down the connection and they had to replace a card somewhere. They said it was fixed but it wasn't working. After looking at the router, I was pretty sure they messed up the ATM PVC config on their side. I had to wade through the level 1 support for 45 minutes of reboot this, change this before they sent me to level 2. I told the level 2 exactly what I thought, and he said, hold on a sec, and said, yeah, you are right, I just fixed it, try it now. And it worked. Wish I had a special license to bypass all level 1 support
RE: Verizon Business - LTE?
As I understand it, data on a smartphone is unlimited, but data on a non-phone device (called Broadband Access) is capped at 5GB. At one time if you went over 5GB on a broadband access account they simply terminated your account. This happened to me. Then a class action lawsuit happened. I got a check from VZ and they stopped terminating people for going over 5GB. Instead, they charged some huge overages fees. IIRC if you used a total of 10 GB (5GB over your allowance) it cost around $250. Last time I checked, Verizon reduced their overage fees to something around $10/GB. Cellular data service such as 1xRTT, EVDO, LTE, etc is great when your only other options are dialup or consumer satellite internet service. -Original Message- From: Leo Bicknell [mailto:bickn...@ufp.org] Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2011 10:24 AM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon Business - LTE? In a message written on Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 11:34:50PM -0400, Christopher Morrow wrote: On Mon, Aug 15, 2011 at 10:28 PM, chris tknch...@gmail.com wrote: I've apparently hit some kind of magic bw limit. My 4G LTE is now magically fixed at max 1.5mbps Last month's usage was about 200gb. cmon verizon seriously :( they've been fairly public about 'unlimited' != unlimited I have no issues with a cap, however I have huge issues when a company is allowed to call a capped service unlimited. I think it's straight up false advertising, and I really wish some state AG's would take up the issue. But what's more interesting is that Verizon's contract for LTE has _the exact same cap as 3G service_, 5Gb. If Chris is really getting 200Gb before being capped, that is impressive. http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,2373767,00.asp PCMag did the math, you can use up the 5GB alotment in 32 minutes with LTE. Seems like as the speeds get faster the cap should get larger, doesn't it? -- Leo Bicknell - bickn...@ufp.org - CCIE 3440 PGP keys at http://www.ufp.org/~bicknell/
RE: Verizon Business - LTE?
-Original Message- From: Charles N Wyble [mailto:char...@knownelement.com] Sent: Friday, August 12, 2011 11:26 PM To: nanog@nanog.org Subject: Re: Verizon Business - LTE? On 08/12/2011 10:23 PM, Ryan Finnesey wrote: Does anyone know if Verizon Business is using the Verizon Wireless LTE network to deliver service? Who else would they use? I would presume they are eating their own dog food. If not, that's very sad. :) Copper and fiber is my guess. 8-)
RE: FTTH CPE landscape
-Original Message- From: Jay Ashworth [mailto:j...@baylink.com] Sent: Friday, August 05, 2011 1:47 PM To: NANOG Subject: Re: FTTH CPE landscape - Original Message - From: Owen DeLong o...@delong.com It differs from a bridge in that *it requires a chunk of routable IP space to put behind it*, and a route to go there. For the specific situation I posited, a consumer connection, you can get a static IP, but you *will not* get routable space; you have to go to a business connection for that, at 2-4 times the cost. That really depends on the ISP, doesn't it? Sure. If you'd prefer, substitute large, consumer ISP -- on the order of Verizon DSL or Road Runner. Both of those have told me that in the past, and, these days, I don't think they're unrepresentative of the common case. Knology DOCSIS (residential) here in Huntsville uses a bridged CPE, Arris brand. I like that, as I can use my own router and handle any NAT if I want.
