Re: Switching Email
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote: On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: --- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin b...@herrin.us No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers -- That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) Actually, it's RFC 2369 :) Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. On the other hand, the very first guideline at http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html is: Mailing list administrators must provide [...] clear and effective instructions for unsubscribing from a mailing list. Hidden in the headers is rather less than clear or effective. Even that lightweight, the CAN-SPAM act, calls for each message to contain clear and conspicuous notice of the opportunity [...] to decline to receive further messages. -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: unsubscribing, was Switching Email
Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. Alpine, which has what must be the cruddiest GUI on the planet, does. Too bad people prefer glitz to function. R's, John
Re: unsubscribing, was Switching Email
--As of March 12, 2011 3:02:38 PM +, John Levine is alleged to have said: Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. Alpine, which has what must be the cruddiest GUI on the planet, does. Too bad people prefer glitz to function. --As for the rest, it is mine. Squirrelmail and Kmail both do as well, although in both cases it's an option that needs to be configured. (In Squirrelmail's case it's actually a plugin, I think.) Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. ---
Re: Switching Email
William Herrin b...@herrin.us writes: Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. Gnus? Jens, Gnus user since 1999 -- - | Foelderichstr. 40 | 13595 Berlin, Germany| +49-151-18721264 | | http://blog.quux.de | jabber: jensl...@guug.de | --- | -
Re: Switching Email
William Herrin b...@herrin.us writes: and you have to read the mail in Microsoft Lookout, interspersed with work-oriented messages from your boss and colleagues. With Outlook popping new-message-notifications up on the projector while you try to give a presentation during a meeting, each containing the sender and message subject... Well I try to avoid Outlook, but even I was able to create some basic filter rules during my last projekt (where I was forced to use it). Jens -- - | Foelderichstr. 40 | 13595 Berlin, Germany| +49-151-18721264 | | http://blog.quux.de | jabber: jensl...@guug.de | --- | -
Re: unsubscribing, was Switching Email
On 3/12/2011 10:02 AM, John Levine wrote: Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. Alpine, which has what must be the cruddiest GUI on the planet, does. Too bad people prefer glitz to function. And Glitzy MUAs and MTAs tend to be the least RFC compliant of all. Thunderbird (older versions) had a plugin (Display Mailing List Headers) that would do it, but the plugin is not compatible with the current version[s] of Thunderbird. Any MUA that has a toggle or view to display all headers may indirectly do it if they create clickable links for http: and mailto: directives, e.g., from this list: List-Id: North American Network Operators Group nanog.nanog.org List-Unsubscribe: https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog, mailto:nanog-requ...@nanog.org?subject=unsubscribe List-Archive: http://mailman.nanog.org/pipermail/nanog List-Post: mailto:nanog@nanog.org List-Help: mailto:nanog-requ...@nanog.org?subject=help List-Subscribe: https://mailman.nanog.org/mailman/listinfo/nanog, mailto:nanog-requ...@nanog.org?subject=subscribe Jeff
Re: Switching Email
On Sat, 12 Mar 2011 08:16:19 EST, William Herrin said: Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. EXMH had that support long ago: cvs repository 4/9/1999 Support for RFC2369. If a message contains RFC2369 compliant headers, a List... menu will appear with List related items on it. [ Note that this makes visible a mailto url related bug which you'll find described in exmh.BUGS ] -cwg pgpN3mByzBKq7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Switching Email
On Sat, Mar 12, 2011 at 3:10 PM, valdis.kletni...@vt.edu wrote: EXMH had that support long ago: cvs repository 4/9/1999 Support for RFC2369. If a message contains RFC2369 compliant headers, a List... menu will appear with List related items on it. [ Note that this makes visible a mailto url related bug which you'll find described in exmh.BUGS ] -cwg Previous big fan of NMH reporting in - was my favorite email client for many many years :)
Re: Switching Email
On 12/03/11 5:16 AM, William Herrin wrote: On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kelljeff-k...@utc.edu wrote: On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: --- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrinb...@herrin.us No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers -- That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) Actually, it's RFC 2369 :) Anyone have a list of MUAs I don't have a list, but if you are viewing the email using the gmail web interface, and select the show details interface, you will see: fromScott Weeks sur...@mauigateway.com reply-tosur...@mauigateway.com tonanog@nanog.org dateFri, Mar 11, 2011 at 5:24 PM subjectRe: Switching Email mailing listnanog.nanog.org Filter messages from this mailing list mailed-bynanog.org unsubscribeUnsubscribe from this mailing-list Where Filter messages from this mailing list is a link, and Unsubscribe from this mailing-list is a link. Unfortunately, there's no confirmation or undo when you try to unsubscribe (as I just did, to test it). Oops! jc
Re: Switching Email
In message aanlktinvbcodxicqhmclop7qg3mh4388mrp1uevvk...@mail.gmail.com, Will iam Herrin writes: On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote: On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: --- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin b...@herrin.us No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers -- That's a feature. =A0Not a bug. =A0:-) Actually, it's RFC 2369 =A0:) Anyone have a list of MUAs that actually support RFC 2369 with subscription management widgets in the GUI? Surely someone has written one but I can't seem to find any documentation to that effect. On the other hand, the very first guideline at http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html is: Mailing list administrators must provide [...] clear and effective instructions for unsubscribing from a mailing list. Hidden in the headers is rather less than clear or effective. Even that lightweight, the CAN-SPAM act, calls for each message to contain clear and conspicuous notice of the opportunity [...] to decline to receive further messages. Headers are the ONLY way to do this so it works in all languages for all the planet. Click here to unsubscribe is a joke when it is written in a language you don't read. As for the CAN-SPAM act, it's also a joke. It doesn't require a pre-existing relationship where there is a chance the recipient can read the message. -Bill --=20 William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com=A0 b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004 -- Mark Andrews, ISC 1 Seymour St., Dundas Valley, NSW 2117, Australia PHONE: +61 2 9871 4742 INTERNET: ma...@isc.org
Re: Switching Email
--- b...@herrin.us wrote: On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 10:28 PM, Jeff Kell jeff-k...@utc.edu wrote: On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: --- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin b...@herrin.us No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers -- That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) Actually, it's RFC 2369 :) On the other hand, the very first guideline at http://www.mail-abuse.com/an_listmgntgdlines.html is: Mailing list administrators must provide [...] clear and effective instructions for unsubscribing from a mailing list. Hidden in the headers is rather less than clear or effective. On the many other mailing lists I'm on folks don't even read it when it's at the bottom of the email. Having it at the bottom of every email is irritating and does not solve the problem of folks sending in the emails to the list for unsubscription. scott
Re: Switching Email
--- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin b...@herrin.us colleagues. With Outlook popping new-message-notifications up on the projector while you try to give a presentation during a meeting, each containing the sender and message subject... -- I am happy I have never used Outlook for that reason and many others. Try Pine. It won't do that to you. ;-) scott
Switching Email
I would like to opt out of this news list. Thanks you Rob Shimonski Information Technology CARCO Group, Inc. 5000 Corporate Court, Suite 203 Holtsville, NY 11742 Phone 631-862-9300 Ext 455 This electronic communication (including attachments) contains privileged and confidential information intended only for the use of the named recipient. If you are not the intended recipient, you are prohibited from disseminating, distributing or copying this communication. If you have received this communication in error, please immediately notify us by return message or by telephone and delete this communication from your system. Thank you.
Re: Switching Email
On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, Robert Shimonski wrote: I would like to opt out of this news list. A link that includes mailing list management functions, including the ability to unsubscribe yourself from the list, is append to the end of every email that's posted to the list. Using that link would be your best bet if you want to unsubscribe. jms
Re: Switching Email
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 1:16 PM, Justin M. Streiner strei...@cluebyfour.org wrote: On Fri, 11 Mar 2011, Robert Shimonski wrote: I would like to opt out of this news list. A link that includes mailing list management functions, including the ability to unsubscribe yourself from the list, is append to the end of every email that's posted to the list. No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers where users of certain mail programs have no prayer of getting to it and users of most other mail programs don't know how to look for it. Mr. Shimonski could solve his problem by googling unsubscribe nanog but he probably has no other way of figuring out how to get off of the list. -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: Switching Email
--- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin b...@herrin.us No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers -- That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) scott
Re: Switching Email
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks sur...@mauigateway.com wrote: No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) I wonder if the feature has anything to do with the number of increasing number of NANOG list messages that I have to fish out of my gmail spam folder. Particularly annoying with the CIDR and BGP reports that I've had to fish out every single week for months now. -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: Switching Email
On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 8:54 PM, Brandon Butterworth bran...@rd.bbc.co.uk wrote: Mr. Shimonski could solve his problem by googling unsubscribe nanog but he probably has no other way of figuring out how to get off of the list. besides the monthly happy mailman day message reminding you how We get what, 20, 30, 100 messages a day? How about as a prank I subscribe you to the Justin Bieber mailing list at the same message volume, only you can't get instructions about how to unsubscribe for 30 days and you have to read the mail in Microsoft Lookout, interspersed with work-oriented messages from your boss and colleagues. With Outlook popping new-message-notifications up on the projector while you try to give a presentation during a meeting, each containing the sender and message subject... -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: Switching Email
On 3/11/2011 8:24 PM, Scott Weeks wrote: --- b...@herrin.us wrote: From: William Herrin b...@herrin.us No, it isn't. Contrary to mailing list best practices, NANOG unsubscribe information is stubbornly stashed in the email headers -- That's a feature. Not a bug. :-) Actually, it's RFC 2369 :) Jeff
Re: Switching Email
there are handy gmail filters that can fix this for you... On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:46 PM, William Herrin b...@herrin.us wrote: I wonder if the feature has anything to do with the number of increasing number of NANOG list messages that I have to fish out of my gmail spam folder. Particularly annoying with the CIDR and BGP reports that I've had to fish out every single week for months now. -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004
Re: Switching Email
2011/3/11 Ryan Landry ryan.lan...@gmail.com: there are handy gmail filters that can fix this for you... On Fri, Mar 11, 2011 at 6:46 PM, William Herrin b...@herrin.us wrote: I wonder if the feature has anything to do with the number of increasing number of NANOG list messages that I have to fish out of my gmail spam folder. Particularly annoying with the CIDR and BGP reports that I've had to fish out every single week for months now. -Bill -- William D. Herrin her...@dirtside.com b...@herrin.us 3005 Crane Dr. .. Web: http://bill.herrin.us/ Falls Church, VA 22042-3004 Well it's a mailman server so you could email nanog-requ...@nanog.org with the subject: unsubscribe
