Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Eric Kuhnke]

The single road, or two road situation is extremely similar to what is
happening right now in some parts of canada, with massive forest fires in
the northwest territories, cutting off Yellowknife and rural communities.
If the fiber is built along the one road that exists, and that one road
gets overwhelmed by Forest fire, game over.

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:51 AM William Herrin  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:
> > Last, it's an island and diverse paths are
> > short in number.
>
> To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get
> you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a
> narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
>
> Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it
> survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/
>

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[sronan]

It’s SUPER common for all of the carriers on a cell site to share the same common backhaul path. And I can tell you from personal hands-on experience the majority (90+%) of cell sites in the US have simplex connectivity.On Aug 17, 2023, at 2:00 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue. I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they didn't all burn. Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin  wrote:On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:
> Last, it's an island and diverse paths are
> short in number.

To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get
you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a
narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.

Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it
survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/17/23 6:28 PM, Michael Thomas wrote:


On 8/17/23 11:26 AM, scott via NANOG wrote:



I don't want to overwhelm the list, but since there's interest here's 
something interesting I just now got from the electric company.  400 
poles and 300 transformers.  Wow!


Those of us from California and the west have watched this in abject 
horror and I myself was completely clueless this was possible.


Mike, who lives 10 miles from where the Caldor fire started that burned 
all the way to Tahoe and grew up going to Paradise to visit my grandparents



Me too.  I have friends and family over there.  Even though I am not 
(and they were not) affected it has had a big impact on my emotions.


Also, fto answer an an earlier email - I found the Paniolo cable we 
connected to for the Lahaina MPLS node was a land run that was 
underground, so it didn't get burned.


scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Michael Thomas]

On 8/17/23 11:26 AM, scott via NANOG wrote:



I don't want to overwhelm the list, but since there's interest here's 
something interesting I just now got from the electric company.  400 
poles and 300 transformers.  Wow!


Those of us from California and the west have watched this in abject 
horror and I myself was completely clueless this was possible.


Mike, who lives 10 miles from where the Caldor fire started that burned 
all the way to Tahoe and grew up going to Paradise to visit my grandparents

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Ilissa Miller]

Hi all - I've also asked the Nomad Futurist Foundation for sources for
help.  Here are a few if you are interested.  There will also be a number
of initiatives to help with goods/services donations which would be great.
Hope these help too:

Maui Food Bank:  https://mauifoodbank.org/
Maui Humane Society:
https://www.mauihumanesociety.org/donate-olx/?formID=mainButton
Hawaii Community Foundation:
https://www.hawaiicommunityfoundation.org/maui-strong

Thank you for all of the interest and support as rebuild efforts get
underway, Hawaii will need this industry.

-Ilissa


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 2:18 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:

>
> I missed some of the below yesterday.
>
>
> "Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it
> survive"
>
> I believe a land section of the Paniolo cable was not burned and I think
> that's what they used.  Perhaps it was actually the undersea part and I
> just don't have access to that data.  One thing I do know is the Paniolo
> cable is what allowed us to get the MPLS node back to the core so
> quickly.  I feel pretty confident the CLS survived, but I have no actual
> data on that.
>
>
>
> "HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?"
>
> Yes, but there was a second fire in the Kula area (a 1.5 hour drive from
> Lahaina with no traffic) that was headed towards Kihei.  I think they
> stopped it, but it was the same thing.  Homes burnt to the ground and a
> LOT of fiber was burned up in Kula (1500-3500 feet above sea level).
>
>
>
> "you would think they had microwave backup at minimum."
>
> There is not very much microwave here.  There're issues with land and
> microwave tower rights on an island that size in addition to the
> geography which makes that an expensive alternative.  HT has some m/w on
> the tops of the mountains, but no other companies that I am aware of can
> get that done.
>
>
>
> "I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so
> they didn't all burn."
>
> I am not sure how that works, but many of the cell sites are/were on
> buildings and such; not on towers.
>
>
>
> "Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS
> (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)"
>
> Yes, they did that with satellite back to their core.
>
> scott
>
>
>
> On 8/17/23 5:55 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
> > I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell
> > carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would
> > think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator
> issue.
> >
> > I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so
> > they didn't all burn.
> >
> > Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS
> > (cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin  > > wrote:
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG  > > wrote:
> >  > Last, it's an island and diverse paths are
> >  > short in number.
> >
> > To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get
> > you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a
> > narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
> >
> > Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did
> it
> > survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Bill Herrin
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > William Herrin
> > b...@herrin.us 
> > https://bill.herrin.us/ 
> >
>


-- 
*Ilissa Miller*

CEO, iMiller Public Relations

Office:  (914) 315-6424

Mobile: (917) 743-0931

@iMillerPR | @ilissanyc

iMiller Public Relations

www.imillerpr.com

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

I don't want to overwhelm the list, but since there's interest here's 
something interesting I just now got from the electric company.  400 
poles and 300 transformers.  Wow!


scott



 Over the past week, I have been with our teams on Maui that have 
helped safely restore power to 80% of the customers affected. Among 
other efforts, we have deployed more than 400 Hawaiian Electric crew 
members and contractors to Maui.


We are:

Using a mobile substation at Lahainaluna to help restore power to 
homes, schools and county facilities;


Working with county officials to identify priority circuits to 
bring stores, pharmacies, gas stations, water and wastewater facilities 
and other key locations online as quickly as possible;


Restoring service to hotels and resorts to be used to house 
displaced residents, enabling them to move out of emergency shelters;


Replacing some of the estimated 400 poles, 300 transformers and 
other equipment damaged by the fires and high winds and conducting 
extensive repairs in areas that are safe and accessible; and


Shipping dozens of vehicles and pieces of specialized equipment 
from O‘ahu and bringing in additional expert personnel and equipment 
from the continental U.S.

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

I missed some of the below yesterday.


"Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it 
survive"


I believe a land section of the Paniolo cable was not burned and I think 
that's what they used.  Perhaps it was actually the undersea part and I 
just don't have access to that data.  One thing I do know is the Paniolo 
cable is what allowed us to get the MPLS node back to the core so 
quickly.  I feel pretty confident the CLS survived, but I have no actual 
data on that.




"HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?"

Yes, but there was a second fire in the Kula area (a 1.5 hour drive from 
Lahaina with no traffic) that was headed towards Kihei.  I think they 
stopped it, but it was the same thing.  Homes burnt to the ground and a 
LOT of fiber was burned up in Kula (1500-3500 feet above sea level).




"you would think they had microwave backup at minimum."

There is not very much microwave here.  There're issues with land and 
microwave tower rights on an island that size in addition to the 
geography which makes that an expensive alternative.  HT has some m/w on 
the tops of the mountains, but no other companies that I am aware of can 
get that done.




"I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so 
they didn't all burn."


I am not sure how that works, but many of the cell sites are/were on 
buildings and such; not on towers.




"Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS 
(cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)"


Yes, they did that with satellite back to their core.

scott



On 8/17/23 5:55 PM, TJ Trout wrote:
I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell 
carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would 
think they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue.


I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so 
they didn't all burn.


Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS 
(cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)


On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin > wrote:


On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>> wrote:
 > Last, it's an island and diverse paths are
 > short in number.

To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get
you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a
narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.

Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it
survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin

b...@herrin.us 
https://bill.herrin.us/ 

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Jared Mauch]

> On Aug 17, 2023, at 1:55 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
> 
> I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell 
> carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think 
> they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue. 
> 

It’s common for a lot of cell backhaul to be on poles because it’s seen as 
cheap and easy to repair, except when you have a lot of failures at once, and 
I’m guessing replacement poles require a bit more effort to get there like 
everything else.

I’m reminded of the fiber routes in/out of Madrid where they are all (largely) 
on a single route.  There is a diverse route but it’s $$$ and some providers 
don’t want to pay for it.

There’s a number of towns in the US that don’t even have any fiber connectivity 
at all, the voice/data come in via licensed links.

It’s also common that something is missed or gets groomed off a diverse path 
without your knowledge.  Seen this many times.

- Jared

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[TJ Trout]

I'm familiar with the island, it's it's puzzling that the major 3 cell
carriers would accept a single point of failure like that, you would think
they had microwave backup at minimum. Maybe it was a generator issue.

I'm sure a few cells burned but there are over ten on the west side so they
didn't all burn.

Feet on the ground are reporting they brought in at least a few COWS
(cellular on wheels/portable cell site trucks)

On Thu, Aug 17, 2023, 12:53 AM William Herrin  wrote:

> On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:
> > Last, it's an island and diverse paths are
> > short in number.
>
> To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get
> you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a
> narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.
>
> Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it
> survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?
>
> Regards,
> Bill Herrin
>
>
>
> --
> William Herrin
> b...@herrin.us
> https://bill.herrin.us/
>

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/17/23 3:14 AM, Jason Kuehl wrote:
I would be willing to travel down to help restore infra; I did this back 
around Sandy as well. Is there anyone we can contact?


I am not sure who to contact.  I don't work with the fiber guys as I am 
a router guy.  I could only tell you to call the main number and work 
yourself to the fiber guys or look online and see who you can find that 
way.  But they have  lot of fiber up at this time.  They got guys from 
other islands over there last week and have been stringing fiber 
non-stop since then - over the weekend and nights.  Lahaina is small 
square area wise.  We already are getting Napili online today, which is 
north of the area affected.


scott






On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:51 PM scott via NANOG > wrote:




On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote:
 > According to Eric Kuhnke mailto:eric.kuh...@gmail.com>>:
 >> -=-=-=-=-=-
 >>
 >> It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by
Cincinnati
 >> Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own
 >> independent corporation/operating entity in the region of
Cincinnati during
 >> the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
 >
 > Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of
Connecticut.
 >
 > Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until
 > 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the
rest
 > of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing
 > about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent
public
 > company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell,
 > which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate
Macquarie.

Yep, that's it.  And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a
complete disaster.  I was here for all that.  Fugly is all I can say.



 > Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only
 > 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated
 > from the rest of the world by a lot of water.

We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big
MPLS network for the internet stuff.  There is still SS7 stuff out
there, too.  I am unfamiliar with that part.

scott



--
Sincerely,

Jason W Kuehl
Cell 920-419-8983
jason.w.ku...@gmail.com 

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[William Herrin]

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 6:43 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:
> Last, it's an island and diverse paths are
> short in number.

To put it into perspective: there are exactly TWO roads that can get
you from Lahaina back to Kahului and the airport. One of them is a
narrow, cliff-hugging single lane road that is more or less paved.

Though I am curious about the Paniolo cable landing in Lahaina. Did it
survive? HICS and HIFN land in Kihei instead, right?

Regards,
Bill Herrin



-- 
William Herrin
b...@herrin.us
https://bill.herrin.us/

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Aaron1]

“Big, undersea, mpls network”.  Doesn’t get much cooler than that ;)

Aaron

> On Aug 16, 2023, at 9:51 PM, scott via NANOG  wrote:
> 
> 
> 
>> On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote:
>> According to Eric Kuhnke :
>>> -=-=-=-=-=-
>>> 
>>> It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati
>>> Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own
>>> independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during
>>> the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
>> Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut.
>> Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until
>> 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest
>> of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing
>> about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public
>> company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell,
>> which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.
> 
> Yep, that's it.  And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a complete 
> disaster.  I was here for all that.  Fugly is all I can say.
> 
> 
> 
>> Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only
>> 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated
>> from the rest of the world by a lot of water.
> 
> We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big MPLS 
> network for the internet stuff.  There is still SS7 stuff out there, too.  I 
> am unfamiliar with that part.
> 
> scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Jason Kuehl]

I would be willing to travel down to help restore infra; I did this back
around Sandy as well. Is there anyone we can contact?

On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:51 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:

>
>
> On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote:
> > According to Eric Kuhnke :
> >> -=-=-=-=-=-
> >>
> >> It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati
> >> Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own
> >> independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati
> during
> >> the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.
> >
> > Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut.
> >
> > Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until
> > 1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest
> > of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing
> > about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public
> > company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell,
> > which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.
>
> Yep, that's it.  And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a
> complete disaster.  I was here for all that.  Fugly is all I can say.
>
>
>
> > Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only
> > 160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated
> > from the rest of the world by a lot of water.
>
> We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big
> MPLS network for the internet stuff.  There is still SS7 stuff out
> there, too.  I am unfamiliar with that part.
>
> scott
>


-- 
Sincerely,

Jason W Kuehl
Cell 920-419-8983
jason.w.ku...@gmail.com

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/17/23 2:03 AM, John Levine wrote:

According to Eric Kuhnke :

-=-=-=-=-=-

It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati
Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own
independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during
the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.


Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut.

Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until
1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest
of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing
about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public
company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell,
which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.


Yep, that's it.  And the hedge fund (The Carlyle Group) thing was a 
complete disaster.  I was here for all that.  Fugly is all I can say.





Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only
160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated
from the rest of the world by a lot of water.


We have a lot of undersea fiber and it is all connected into one big 
MPLS network for the internet stuff.  There is still SS7 stuff out 
there, too.  I am unfamiliar with that part.


scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/17/23 1:08 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati 
Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own 
independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati 
during the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.


Yes, HT was bought by Cin Bell.  CB was then bought by an out of country 
company and are changing their name to altafiber.


scott






Somewhat like how GTE was independent in other places in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Bell 



Some of the Hawaii ILEC structures I have seen photos of in other 
non-fire-affected places and other islands have a resemblance to designs 
that were built by BCTel, the ILEC in British Columbia, at the time when 
GTE was a shareholder in BCTel.




On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:50 AM Jay Hennigan > wrote:


On 8/16/23 09:32, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:

 > Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has
transitioned
 > forwards to ... newer transport.  Good.

Legacy GTE in this case, but agreed.

 > Best of luck to you all, out there.

Indeed.

-- 
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net 

Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/16/23 4:32 PM, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:

- Original Message -

From: "scott via NANOG" 



On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:

It's like a war zone.


Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the
edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and
get internet access.


Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned
forwards to ... newer transport.  Good.



Yeah, the mindset of keeping it all running whatever we need to do is 
still strong here.  We have been having looong conf calls with many 
folks on it.




Best of luck to you all, out there.


Thanks.

scott




Cheers,
-- jra

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[John Levine]

According to Eric Kuhnke :
>-=-=-=-=-=-
>
>It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati
>Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own
>independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during
>the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.

Not that unique, SNET was also a Bell affiliate in most of Connecticut.

Hawaiian Tel has a very painful history. It was independent until
1967, then bought by GTE, then merged into Verizon along with the rest
of GTE in 2000, then sold to a hedge fund in 2004 which knew nothing
about telephony and ran it into bankruptcy, then an independent public
company from 2010 to 2017, when it was bought by Cincinnati Bell,
which in turn was bought in 2021 by Australian conglomerate Macquarie.

Running phone systems on islands is very expensive. There's only
160,000 people on Maui, about the same as Salinas CA, but separated
from the rest of the world by a lot of water.

-- 
Regards,
John Levine, jo...@taugh.com, Primary Perpetrator of "The Internet for Dummies",
Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail. https://jl.ly

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/16/23 3:58 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
I found it interesting that *all*? cellular service on west maui died? 
Does every carrier single-home via waves served out of the Lahaina CO? 
Or maybe they aren't allowed to have generators in Maui? Seems like they 
would have diverse paths to major sites

--

Many do mobile backhaul over various providers, including Hawaiian 
Telcom.  We do that over MPLS.  The Lahaina CO is an HT property and we 
maintain the stuff that kept it relatively safe; air handlers, filters, 
generators, battery banks, etc.  All fiber was gone.  The fire was 
intense due to the wind speed.  There was a hurricane near the islands. 
Likely, even the cell towers were melted.  I cannot speak to what the 
cell folks have in place.  Last, it's an island and diverse paths are 
short in number.


scott









On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:55 PM scott > wrote:




 > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG mailto:nanog@nanog.org>
 >
 >     On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
 >      > It's like a war zone.
 >
 >     Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to
some of the
 >     edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the
hotspot areas
 >     and
 >     get internet access.


On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

  > Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media
coming in or
  > stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi
hotspots
  > that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.
--


I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got
the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (:  But I wonder if those are
different wifis.  I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber
and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those
up,
if they're the same ones.

scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Eric Kuhnke]

It's my understanding that the Hawaiian ILEC is now owned by Cincinnati
Bell, which is also a unique historical artifact, as it was its own
independent corporation/operating entity in the region of Cincinnati during
the era of the pre-1984 Bell system.

Somewhat like how GTE was independent in other places in the country.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cincinnati_Bell

Some of the Hawaii ILEC structures I have seen photos of in other
non-fire-affected places and other islands have a resemblance to designs
that were built by BCTel, the ILEC in British Columbia, at the time when
GTE was a shareholder in BCTel.



On Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 10:50 AM Jay Hennigan  wrote:

> On 8/16/23 09:32, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:
>
> > Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned
> > forwards to ... newer transport.  Good.
>
> Legacy GTE in this case, but agreed.
>
> > Best of luck to you all, out there.
>
> Indeed.
>
> --
> Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
> Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
> 503 897-8550 - WB6RDV
>
>

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Jay Hennigan]

On 8/16/23 09:32, Jay R. Ashworth wrote:


Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned
forwards to ... newer transport.  Good.


Legacy GTE in this case, but agreed.


Best of luck to you all, out there.


Indeed.

--
Jay Hennigan - j...@west.net
Network Engineering - CCIE #7880
503 897-8550 - WB6RDV

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Jay R. Ashworth]

- Original Message -
> From: "scott via NANOG" 

> On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>> It's like a war zone.
> 
> Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the
> edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and
> get internet access.

Well, it sounds like the historical Bell System attitude has transitioned 
forwards to ... newer transport.  Good.

Best of luck to you all, out there.

Cheers,
-- jra
-- 
Jay R. Ashworth  Baylink   j...@baylink.com
Designer The Things I Think   RFC 2100
Ashworth & Associates   http://www.bcp38.info  2000 Land Rover DII
St Petersburg FL USA  BCP38: Ask For It By Name!   +1 727 647 1274

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Mike Lyon]

Not many physical paths available in that area. I would assume there are also a handful of wireless paths as well.Plus, it’s likely most of the cell sites burnt down during the fires.-MikeOn Aug 15, 2023, at 22:54, TJ Trout  wrote:I found it interesting that *all*? cellular service on west maui died? Does every carrier single-home via waves served out of the Lahaina CO? Or maybe they aren't allowed to have generators in Maui? Seems like they would have diverse paths to major sitesOn Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:55 PM scott  wrote:

> On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG  
>     On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
>      > It's like a war zone.
> 
>     Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the
>     edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas
>     and
>     get internet access.


On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

 > Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or
 > stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots
 > that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.
--


I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got 
the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (:  But I wonder if those are 
different wifis.  I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber 
and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those up, 
if they're the same ones.

scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[TJ Trout]

I found it interesting that *all*? cellular service on west maui died? Does
every carrier single-home via waves served out of the Lahaina CO? Or maybe
they aren't allowed to have generators in Maui? Seems like they would have
diverse paths to major sites

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023 at 6:55 PM scott  wrote:

>
>
> > On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG  >
> > On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
> >  > It's like a war zone.
> >
> > Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of
> the
> > edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas
> > and
> > get internet access.
>
>
> On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
>  > Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or
>  > stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots
>  > that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.
> --
>
>
> I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got
> the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (:  But I wonder if those are
> different wifis.  I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber
> and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those up,
> if they're the same ones.
>
> scott
>

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG 

On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
 > It's like a war zone.

Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the
edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas
and
get internet access.



On 8/16/23 12:39 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

> Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or
> stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots
> that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.
--


I don't have anything to do with that as I work in the core and we got 
the node up for west Maui, so I am done. (:  But I wonder if those are 
different wifis.  I'd imagine the focus now is plant poles, hang fiber 
and get the Access part of the network fully up before getting those up, 
if they're the same ones.


scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[TJ Trout]

Scott: Just an FYI that anecdotal reports from social media coming in or
stating that residents have been unable to connect to the Wi-Fi hotspots
that the local government have been promoting in the Lahaina area.

On Tue, Aug 15, 2023, 5:21 PM scott via NANOG  wrote:

>
>
> On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:
> > It's like a war zone.
>
>
> Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the
> edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and
> get internet access.
>
> scott
>

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/11/23 4:06 AM, Mark Tinka wrote:

It's like a war zone.



Yes, it definitely looks like that. We have connectivity to some of the 
edges and have put up hotspots, so folks can go to the hotspot areas and 
get internet access.


scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[scott via NANOG]

On 8/11/23 3:17 AM, Eric Kuhnke wrote:
Recently saw an aerial video where an entire neighborhood in Laihana had 
burned down *except* for the concrete block structure small ILEC CO.


Pictures I have seen of other ILEC sites in Hawaii closely resemble some 
GTE sites in the Pacific Northwest (now Ziply), which makes sense with 
the history of GTE in Hawaii.


Does anyone have some more detailed photos or examples of a telecom site 
that's survived while everything else around it is burned up?


I'm looking to share this with some contacts in BC for rural telecom 
purposes and disaster preparedness discussions.



Hey,

This email is delayed because we have all been busy not only with 
getting the network up, but also collecting tons of stuff to donate to 
the folks over there.  Many lost everything except the clothes on their 
back and what little they could carry.


That's a Hawaiian Telcom CO in Lahaina.  I work (again) for HT these 
days.  We have special air filters and air handlers.  The generators 
came on and kept everything going and air conditioned.  Once the poles 
were put up and the fiber strung we found all the equipment running just 
fine.


In that CO is a lot of stuff, but the main thing for the router guys was 
a Nokia ESS-7 chassis that has been running since around 2007. (approx)


We got connectivity to it from the core yesterday and are getting 
connectivity to the edges as I type.


Here is a photo a tech took.  They were the first allowed into the area 
after electric folks.  Notice the smoke everywhere and all the debris on 
the road.


surfer.mauigateway.com/lhna-co.jpg

scott

Re: Hawaiian ILEC infrastructure and fire

[Mark Tinka]

On 8/11/23 05:17, Eric Kuhnke wrote:

Recently saw an aerial video where an entire neighborhood in Laihana 
had burned down *except* for the concrete block structure small ILEC CO.


Pictures I have seen of other ILEC sites in Hawaii closely resemble 
some GTE sites in the Pacific Northwest (now Ziply), which makes sense 
with the history of GTE in Hawaii.


Does anyone have some more detailed photos or examples of a telecom 
site that's survived while everything else around it is burned up?


I'm seeing that 80% of Laihana is burned out, but that also 80% of the 
fire is now contained.


It's like a war zone.

Mark.