Re: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

[Aiden Fang]

What a piece of art! 

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 10:00:11 AM UTC-7 newxito wrote:

> I finally got the backlight working. There is a bug in the Neopixel 
> library when running on ESP32
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Amperex 8453 Counter tube

[Charles MacDonald]

On 2020-10-28 8:23 p.m., peter bunge wrote:


Ehat does I.C. mean on pin 6? Or is it N/C as in Not Connected?


on most tube diagrams - IC means "Internal Connection".  the pin is 
attached to some part of the structure of the tube, and is not to be 
used.  NC is no connection and the socket pin is generally permissible 
to use as a tie point or terminal.


often the IC pin is used as a structural support, but the manufacturer 
does not want to promise that it will be to the same element on future 
production.



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Charles MacDonald  VA3CPY   Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Charles MacDonald]

On 2020-10-28 7:01 p.m., Jon wrote:

The DK25 is the only base-8 counting tube as far as I know, which is why 
the picture is truly diagnostic of the precise model of tube. Why Rodan 
made it, I have no idea, but it was a regular catalogue item not some 
weirdo developmental.


a lot of computers used octal notation for binary values, so an 8 
position counter may have been useful.  even today some internet 
variables are expressed in Octal.


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Charles MacDonald  VA3CPY   Stittsville Ontario
cm...@zeusprune.ca  Just Beyond the Fringe
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Re: [neonixie-l] Amperex 8453 Counter tube

[David Forbes]

I.C. means Internal Connection. It's usually connected to part of the tube
structure. Leave it unconnected.


On Wed, Oct 28, 2020, 5:23 PM peter bunge  wrote:

> I searched on this tube and found nothing.
> Before I spend time designing a circuit to drive it, has any one already
> done so?
> I don't mean the circuit in the data sheet, I mean a solid state driver
> for the ten starter pins.
> Ehat does I.C. mean on pin 6? Or is it N/C as in Not Connected?
>
> --
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> .
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[gregebert]

I'm going to guess it was an attempt to use octal-based math (which is a 
subset of binary) in early computers, instead of decimal, because of the 
greater efficiency in calculations. From what I've gathered, dekatrons were 
an electronic mimic to the base-10 mechanical adding machines. But computer 
science theory and electronics soon converged on binary, which we still use.

Remember the PDP-8 ? It was 12 bits, or 4 octal words.

On Wednesday, October 28, 2020 at 4:01:06 PM UTC-7 Jon wrote:

> Misery? How can such a lovely tube be the cause of misery? :)
>
> So, the mystery tube is a Rodan DK25. Grahame correctly deduced from the 
> picture that it is a three-guide (single pulse) base-8 selector dekatron. 
> It's hooked up in a standard single pulse circuit which automatically 
> creates fast transfers from G1 to G2 and from G3 to the 'next' main 
> cathode, so what we're looking at is the persistence of vision effect of 
> the glow resting predominantly on the G2 guides and main cathodes. 8 main 
> cathodes, 8 sets of guides G1, G2, G3 for a total of 32 pins, of which half 
> are visibly glowing in this regime.
>
> The DK25 is the only base-8 counting tube as far as I know, which is why 
> the picture is truly diagnostic of the precise model of tube. Why Rodan 
> made it, I have no idea, but it was a regular catalogue item not some 
> weirdo developmental. There is a conventional base-10 selector tube in the 
> same form factor, the DK24, which is much more commonly found, and even 
> more oddly a base-6 tube too. That last one's a bit easier to understand 
> from an application perspective, as base-6 and base-12 tubes (like the ETL 
> GC12/4B & GS12D) are useful for counting time.
>
> So a real oddball, which I'm very pleased to have in the collection!
>
> Jon.
>
> On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 6:13:14 PM UTC+1 Pramanicin wrote:
>
>> Come on Jon, put us out of our misery. :)
>>
>> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7 Jon wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Sharp eyes Grahame, and some sharp deductions too...
>>>
>>> The tube is indeed spinning, quite quickly. So we are looking at a 
>>> persistence of vision effect, but not one created by a highly specific 
>>> camera shutter speed - this is what the tube looks like to the naked eye. 
>>> And neither is the tube being abused with a funky hook-up, it's operating 
>>> in the manufacturer's reference circuit (might be give or take on the odd 
>>> component value, I don't remember). It is a commercial tube, not a 
>>> prototype / developmental tube. Your comment on mica vs ceramic is spot on 
>>> - the family of tubes of which this is a member do switch from mica 
>>> supports to ceramics. I have not actually seen an example of this 
>>> particular type with a ceramic support, but I have no reason to believe 
>>> they were not made.
>>>
>>> So, very nice progress. Anyone able to get us all the way over the line?
>>>
>>> Jon.
>>>
>>

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[neonixie-l] Amperex 8453 Counter tube

[peter bunge]

I searched on this tube and found nothing.
Before I spend time designing a circuit to drive it, has any one already 
done so?
I don't mean the circuit in the data sheet, I mean a solid state driver for 
the ten starter pins.
Ehat does I.C. mean on pin 6? Or is it N/C as in Not Connected? 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekatron quiz!

[Jon]

Misery? How can such a lovely tube be the cause of misery? :)

So, the mystery tube is a Rodan DK25. Grahame correctly deduced from the 
picture that it is a three-guide (single pulse) base-8 selector dekatron. 
It's hooked up in a standard single pulse circuit which automatically 
creates fast transfers from G1 to G2 and from G3 to the 'next' main 
cathode, so what we're looking at is the persistence of vision effect of 
the glow resting predominantly on the G2 guides and main cathodes. 8 main 
cathodes, 8 sets of guides G1, G2, G3 for a total of 32 pins, of which half 
are visibly glowing in this regime.

The DK25 is the only base-8 counting tube as far as I know, which is why 
the picture is truly diagnostic of the precise model of tube. Why Rodan 
made it, I have no idea, but it was a regular catalogue item not some 
weirdo developmental. There is a conventional base-10 selector tube in the 
same form factor, the DK24, which is much more commonly found, and even 
more oddly a base-6 tube too. That last one's a bit easier to understand 
from an application perspective, as base-6 and base-12 tubes (like the ETL 
GC12/4B & GS12D) are useful for counting time.

So a real oddball, which I'm very pleased to have in the collection!

Jon.

On Friday, October 23, 2020 at 6:13:14 PM UTC+1 Pramanicin wrote:

> Come on Jon, put us out of our misery. :)
>
> On Sunday, October 18, 2020 at 9:27:51 AM UTC-7 Jon wrote:
>
>>
>> Sharp eyes Grahame, and some sharp deductions too...
>>
>> The tube is indeed spinning, quite quickly. So we are looking at a 
>> persistence of vision effect, but not one created by a highly specific 
>> camera shutter speed - this is what the tube looks like to the naked eye. 
>> And neither is the tube being abused with a funky hook-up, it's operating 
>> in the manufacturer's reference circuit (might be give or take on the odd 
>> component value, I don't remember). It is a commercial tube, not a 
>> prototype / developmental tube. Your comment on mica vs ceramic is spot on 
>> - the family of tubes of which this is a member do switch from mica 
>> supports to ceramics. I have not actually seen an example of this 
>> particular type with a ceramic support, but I have no reason to believe 
>> they were not made.
>>
>> So, very nice progress. Anyone able to get us all the way over the line?
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Ignition delays

[newxito]

I'm sure you are right because after some more testing, I can clearly see 
that there is a connection between light and delays.
Actually, the delay adds some charm to the calculator :-) I guess I'll keep 
it that way. Another solution could be to pad the display with leading 
zeroes, so all the nixies are always on.
Anyway, I will make the test with the resistor with a separate tube, thanks!


Dekatron42 schrieb am Mittwoch, 28. Oktober 2020 um 19:57:55 UTC+1:

> I hope I get this right, but from what I remember you get a few extra ions 
> in the nixie from the background led's which helps the gas to ionize 
> faster. Just like some trigger tubes contain an extra electrode that keeps 
> ions present all the time in the gas for quicker turn on times, likethe 
> GTE175M. You can try to use a resistor in the megohms range and connect it 
> to one of the decimal points and to ground, high enough value will mean 
> that some ions will be produced but the decimal point will not glow but 
> this will result in quicker turn on times.
>
> /Martin
>
> On Wednesday, 28 October 2020 17:28:35 UTC+1, newxito wrote:
>>
>> I noticed some weird ignition delays with B-5870 nixies while entering 
>> digits into the calculator.  1 is the most affected number. If the 
>> background LEDs are on, the delays completely disappear!?! Don’t know 
>> what’s going on. 
>>
>> I know that the drivers are ok, no delay with IN-17 and IN-16 versions. 
>> The anode resistors should be ok, 8.2k/170V.
>>
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: Ignition delays

[Dekatron42]

I hope I get this right, but from what I remember you get a few extra ions 
in the nixie from the background led's which helps the gas to ionize 
faster. Just like some trigger tubes contain an extra electrode that keeps 
ions present all the time in the gas for quicker turn on times, likethe 
GTE175M. You can try to use a resistor in the megohms range and connect it 
to one of the decimal points and to ground, high enough value will mean 
that some ions will be produced but the decimal point will not glow but 
this will result in quicker turn on times.

/Martin

On Wednesday, 28 October 2020 17:28:35 UTC+1, newxito wrote:
>
> I noticed some weird ignition delays with B-5870 nixies while entering 
> digits into the calculator.  1 is the most affected number. If the 
> background LEDs are on, the delays completely disappear!?! Don’t know 
> what’s going on. 
>
> I know that the drivers are ok, no delay with IN-17 and IN-16 versions. 
> The anode resistors should be ok, 8.2k/170V.
>

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[neonixie-l] Ignition delays

[newxito]

I noticed some weird ignition delays with B-5870 nixies while entering 
digits into the calculator.  1 is the most affected number. If the 
background LEDs are on, the delays completely disappear!?! Don’t know 
what’s going on. 

I know that the drivers are ok, no delay with IN-17 and IN-16 versions. The 
anode resistors should be ok, 8.2k/170V.

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