Re: [neonixie-l] 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

[Mac Doktor]

> On May 16, 2021, at 12:50 PM, newxito  wrote:
> 
> In case anyone is still interested, there is some work in progress to make 
> the project (IN-16 and IN-17 versions) available on github. 

All it needs now is a plus/minus tube on the left. And a capital E on the right 
to indicate scientific notation (for when it over/underflows). Or perhaps some 
alphanumeric tubes for hexadecimal? I love bases that are even powers of two.

Any possibility of an RPN version? It took me years to get used to my new HP 
(old one bricked on me). I picked it up one day and after a minute of punching 
away I suddenly realized that I no longer had to stop and think about how to 
use it first. Now I can't use an algebraic calculator at all. 

Perhaps it's time to get back into programming in FORTH. I always found stack 
manipulation intuitive.


Terry Bowman, KA4HJH
"The Mac Doctor"

https://www.astarcloseup.com/

“...the book said something astonishing, a very big thought. The stars, it 
said, were suns but very far away. The Sun was a star but close up.”—Carl 
Sagan, "The Backbone Of Night", Cosmos, 1980


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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: CRT clock kit instructions

[John Snow]

Ahh, my mistake - the filiment pins 14 and 1 are next to each other - the 
other diagram above showed a gap between 14 and 1. The pin numbers are 
nicely moulded in the base if you remove the socket.[image: Tube End.PNG]
The tube has pins 6 and 13 absent from the tube, and the wired-up socket 
doesn't use pins 4 or 12 either. 

I'd taken the gap (pins 12 and 13) as the gap on the diagram above.

Interestingly I have pin 4 present on the socket but not wired up - someone 
must have changed their mind assembling it. 
On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 21:24:47 UTC+1 John Snow wrote:

> When you get your kit can I check the socket wiring with you? Mine doesn't 
> match the wiring for the 8SJ31J in the seller's datasheet, but is 
> pre-soldered & heatshunk and already on the tube. I'm worried they made an 
> off-by-one error wiring it up.
>
> On Saturday, 15 May 2021 at 05:53:11 UTC+1 gregebert wrote:
>
>> Most likely, the error is in the text description in the instruction 
>> manual. From the datasheet, pin 9 is the multi-anode connection, and pin 5 
>> is the single anode. I am more likely to follow the connections to specific 
>> pin numbers in the instructions, rather than the text-description. Pin 9 is 
>> the higher-voltage (1500V) anode, and it should not be difficult to verify 
>> that in the schematic.
>>
>> As far as the power is concerned, I cant figure out where 7-10 watts is 
>> going. The filament is 6.3V / 150mA so that's less than 1 watt. The 
>> electron-beam current is probably less than 100uA, so that is also less 
>> than 1 watt. For comparison, a NIMO tube uses 30uA. Even if the anode 
>> current was a whopping 1mA, that would still be only 1.5 watts. So that 
>> leaves the grid and focus anode as the only other source of power 
>> dissipation; maybe some clues will be in the schematic.
>>
>> My kit arrived in the US earlier this week, so I hope it will get 
>> delivered to me next week. I will be placing a 250mA fuse in series with 
>> the filament for added protection. I'll post an update after I've either 
>> finished it, or ran into a problem.
>>
>> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 5:15:45 PM UTC-7 John Snow wrote:
>>
>>> Found a conflict between the documentation (both before and after google 
>>> auto-translation). The conflict is between Anodes A1,A2,A3 in the sellers 
>>> documentation. 
>>>
>>> The seller's documentation lists: 
>>>
>>> A2 (Focusing Anode) - pin 5
>>> A1,A3 (first and third anodes) - pin 9
>>>
>>> I've found a separate pinout for the 8SJ31J tube that lists:
>>>
>>> Focusing Anode,A2 - pin 9
>>> A1 - pin 5
>>>
>>>  The second pinout is from 
>>> http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/Properties_of_Electrons_Apparatus.pdf
>>>  
>>>
>>> It looks like the tube in the spectrum-scientifics is the thin-pin 
>>> version of the 8SJ31J, and the kit uses the thick-pin version of the 
>>> 8SJ31J, but I'd like a second opinion. 
>>>
>>> I know they have different power requirements - the thick-pin (old) is 
>>> around 10W, and the thin-pin (new) is around 7W (I'm assuming which are old 
>>> and new based on the design of the base socket). The rest of the pinout 
>>> agrees, is this another difference between the old and new designs of 
>>> tubes? 
>>>
>>> Tl;DR I'm not clear on the anodes of the 8SJ31J, which pin is the 
>>> focusing anode, and why the other two of the three anodes are joined 
>>> together.
>>> On Saturday, 15 May 2021 at 00:06:33 UTC+1 John Snow wrote:
>>>
 I'm trying to figure out how it's put together before I start soldering.

 As Paolo mentioned the only mystery part is the transformer T-SC-1 on 
 the parts list - it looks like a custom order. I don't know how to 
 characterise it without destructively pulling it apart, and unfortunately 
 they don't sell them separately.

 There's another four without the tube now listed: 
 https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265151344483

 The kit is listed as configured for 8SJ31J by default, and the 
 documentation linked further up lists the wiring for 3SJ1J/5SJ38J/7SJ32J. 
 No idea if the power requirements differ and requires resistors changing 
 on 
 the circuitboard(s), or if they are plug-and-pray drop-in replacements 
 once 
 you've changed the pinout.

 The auction page says it can be used with 
 3LO1I/7SJ33J/8SJ31D/8SJ40/8SJ42J/8SJ40D/9SJ105Y14/12SJ102J/13SJ38J/13SJ38D.
  
 Unfortunately without knowing the transformer operating characteristics 
 I'd be hesitant to plug in anything else.

 I'll probably try to replace the fuses with polyfuses in the future, 
 socketing them for now, and taking measurements while unpopulated for 
 easier case design later.


 On Wednesday, 28 April 2021 at 20:25:12 UTC+1 John Snow wrote:

> Huh, ebay auction says 12V 5A, a previous aliexpress page gives much 
> lower values for amperage:
>
> https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001142939399.html
>

RE: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

[Michail Wilson]

Looking forward to it.

Michail Wilson
206-920-6312

From: neonixie-l@googlegroups.com  On Behalf Of 
newxito
Sent: Sunday, May 16, 2021 9:50 AM
To: neonixie-l 
Subject: [neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

In case anyone is still interested, there is some work in progress to make the 
project (IN-16 and IN-17 versions) available on github.

The original project was not suitable for sharing for various reasons. I’ 
currently assembling two new calculators to test the changes I have made to 
improve the project:

-  Smaller and simpler controller board with easy to solder parts. 
A hot air gun is no longer needed. Also, the HV part has been removed, so now 
you can use your favorite HV PSU (assuming it fits in the case and provides 
enough current for 14 nixies).

-  The keyboard circuit has been redesigned using a classic matrix 
with an ATmega328p instead of the HT16K33. It is now easier to detect 
simultaneous keystrokes, so more levels of functions can be added to the 
keyboard

-  The display boards have been completely redesigned to use socket 
boards for the nixies. That should fix the biggest issue with the old design. 
It’s now a lot easier to replace a broken tube
(see the only document I have uploaded so far, so you can get a first 
impression)

-  Major firmware changes in progress. All the settings can now be 
adjusted using the keyboard, a network connection is no longer needed. 
Actually, I will completely remove the network code.

If everything works as expected, I hope I will have the project ready to share 
by end of June.

https://github.com/axtar/14-digits-nixie-calculator


newxito schrieb am Montag, 1. März 2021 um 23:14:21 UTC+1:
I’m cleaning up the firmware of the calculator and I have moved the code for 
the calculations to a small separate library.
Actually, I would like to learn how to build unit tests and that’s the ideal 
type of library to start with.
But I quickly found out that this is boring and not fun… so, no unit tests...
If someone is interested, here is the link :
https://github.com/axtar/NixieCalc

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: CRT clock kit instructions

[John Snow]

When you get your kit can I check the socket wiring with you? Mine doesn't 
match the wiring for the 8SJ31J in the seller's datasheet, but is 
pre-soldered & heatshunk and already on the tube. I'm worried they made an 
off-by-one error wiring it up.

On Saturday, 15 May 2021 at 05:53:11 UTC+1 gregebert wrote:

> Most likely, the error is in the text description in the instruction 
> manual. From the datasheet, pin 9 is the multi-anode connection, and pin 5 
> is the single anode. I am more likely to follow the connections to specific 
> pin numbers in the instructions, rather than the text-description. Pin 9 is 
> the higher-voltage (1500V) anode, and it should not be difficult to verify 
> that in the schematic.
>
> As far as the power is concerned, I cant figure out where 7-10 watts is 
> going. The filament is 6.3V / 150mA so that's less than 1 watt. The 
> electron-beam current is probably less than 100uA, so that is also less 
> than 1 watt. For comparison, a NIMO tube uses 30uA. Even if the anode 
> current was a whopping 1mA, that would still be only 1.5 watts. So that 
> leaves the grid and focus anode as the only other source of power 
> dissipation; maybe some clues will be in the schematic.
>
> My kit arrived in the US earlier this week, so I hope it will get 
> delivered to me next week. I will be placing a 250mA fuse in series with 
> the filament for added protection. I'll post an update after I've either 
> finished it, or ran into a problem.
>
> On Friday, May 14, 2021 at 5:15:45 PM UTC-7 John Snow wrote:
>
>> Found a conflict between the documentation (both before and after google 
>> auto-translation). The conflict is between Anodes A1,A2,A3 in the sellers 
>> documentation. 
>>
>> The seller's documentation lists: 
>>
>> A2 (Focusing Anode) - pin 5
>> A1,A3 (first and third anodes) - pin 9
>>
>> I've found a separate pinout for the 8SJ31J tube that lists:
>>
>> Focusing Anode,A2 - pin 9
>> A1 - pin 5
>>
>>  The second pinout is from 
>> http://www.spectrum-scientifics.com/v/vspfiles/pdf/Properties_of_Electrons_Apparatus.pdf
>>  
>>
>> It looks like the tube in the spectrum-scientifics is the thin-pin 
>> version of the 8SJ31J, and the kit uses the thick-pin version of the 
>> 8SJ31J, but I'd like a second opinion. 
>>
>> I know they have different power requirements - the thick-pin (old) is 
>> around 10W, and the thin-pin (new) is around 7W (I'm assuming which are old 
>> and new based on the design of the base socket). The rest of the pinout 
>> agrees, is this another difference between the old and new designs of 
>> tubes? 
>>
>> Tl;DR I'm not clear on the anodes of the 8SJ31J, which pin is the 
>> focusing anode, and why the other two of the three anodes are joined 
>> together.
>> On Saturday, 15 May 2021 at 00:06:33 UTC+1 John Snow wrote:
>>
>>> I'm trying to figure out how it's put together before I start soldering.
>>>
>>> As Paolo mentioned the only mystery part is the transformer T-SC-1 on 
>>> the parts list - it looks like a custom order. I don't know how to 
>>> characterise it without destructively pulling it apart, and unfortunately 
>>> they don't sell them separately.
>>>
>>> There's another four without the tube now listed: 
>>> https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/265151344483
>>>
>>> The kit is listed as configured for 8SJ31J by default, and the 
>>> documentation linked further up lists the wiring for 3SJ1J/5SJ38J/7SJ32J. 
>>> No idea if the power requirements differ and requires resistors changing on 
>>> the circuitboard(s), or if they are plug-and-pray drop-in replacements once 
>>> you've changed the pinout.
>>>
>>> The auction page says it can be used with 
>>> 3LO1I/7SJ33J/8SJ31D/8SJ40/8SJ42J/8SJ40D/9SJ105Y14/12SJ102J/13SJ38J/13SJ38D. 
>>> Unfortunately without knowing the transformer operating characteristics 
>>> I'd be hesitant to plug in anything else.
>>>
>>> I'll probably try to replace the fuses with polyfuses in the future, 
>>> socketing them for now, and taking measurements while unpopulated for 
>>> easier case design later.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, 28 April 2021 at 20:25:12 UTC+1 John Snow wrote:
>>>
 Huh, ebay auction says 12V 5A, a previous aliexpress page gives much 
 lower values for amperage:

 https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001142939399.html

 I'm assuming it's the same design from the pictures

 On Wednesday, 28 April 2021 at 20:18:53 UTC+1 John Snow wrote:

> The kit was previously 'avalible' from aliexpress for £56.44, but it 
> was from a seller that held no stock - got refunded as unable to ship.
>
> That was minus the tube though, the current ebay link includes the 
> 8SJ31J but lacks a power supply (12V 5A centre+)
>
> Unsure on lifespan of tube.
>
> On Wednesday, 28 April 2021 at 19:46:03 UTC+1 Paul Andrews wrote:
>
>> They actually seem very cheap to me...
>>
>> On Wednesday, April 28, 2021 at 12:56:00 PM UTC-4 John Snow wrote:
>>
>>> There's 

Re: [neonixie-l] Dekachron - new dekatron clock

[Jon]

The design needs the tubes to run at 4kpps to get all of the persistence of 
vision effects to work smoothly. In the video you're looking at ETL GC10B 
and GC12/4B - the clock auto-configures itself to work fine with any mix of 
those and equivalents (GC10/4B, CV2271, Z303C) and Sylvania 6802. Although 
I've described it as a H:M:S display, actually you can assign any function 
(including cool visual effects) to any tube in software, so it's very 
flexible.

The common Russian neon dekatrons (A101, OG4, OG9) won't work however, at 
least per datasheet, as their max speeds are not high enough. And the octal 
base tubes have a different pin-out (but that's a trivial change, 
obviously).

Jon.

On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 7:10:28 PM UTC+1 gregebert wrote:

> What speed are you running the dekatrons ?
>
> On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 10:57:30 AM UTC-7 iavine wrote:
>
>> That is a cool design
>>
>> On 16 May 2021, at 17:10, Jon  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> The discussion in a recent thread about different glow patterns on a 
>> dekatron reminds me that it’s high time I shared with you my latest clock… 
>> This is Dekachron, a 3 tube dekatron clock.
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> Just to explain what’s going on here - Dekachron uses a rather different 
>> way of displaying time than the approach used by most dekatron clocks (eg 
>> those by Ronald Dekker and Andreas Reinert). Typically one would have tubes 
>> arranged in pairs like a nixie clock, indicating the hours (tens and 
>> units), minutes (tens and units) and maybe seconds too. The position of the 
>> glowing dot on the dekatron display denotes the digit value. So we’d 
>> display 08:25 like this:
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> However, Dekachron uses its dekatrons as a series of analogue clock 
>> faces, one for hours, one for minutes and one for seconds. On each one it 
>> lights up a sector of the circular display that corresponds to the position 
>> of the relevant hand on a traditional analogue clock. So Dekachron displays 
>> 08:25 like this:
>>
>>  
>>
>>  
>> 
>>
>> It's surprisingly easy to read with a little practice, because it taps 
>> into how you learned to tell the time as a child. Displaying the time in 
>> this way allows us to get a H:M:S display with only three tubes and also 
>> opens the door to all kinds of funky visual effects, some of which are 
>> shown in this short video (https://youtu.be/5LtvPJZnqM8).
>>
>>  If anyone is interested to build a Dekachron, a few kits are available – 
>> PM me.
>>
>> Jon.
>>
>> -- 
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>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/86cfd127-5ef7-4d34-9ee7-9d151b78a07an%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 
>> .
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>
>>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekachron - new dekatron clock

[gregebert]

What speed are you running the dekatrons ?

On Sunday, May 16, 2021 at 10:57:30 AM UTC-7 iavine wrote:

> That is a cool design
>
> On 16 May 2021, at 17:10, Jon  wrote:
>
> 
>
> The discussion in a recent thread about different glow patterns on a 
> dekatron reminds me that it’s high time I shared with you my latest clock… 
> This is Dekachron, a 3 tube dekatron clock.
>
>  
> 
>
> Just to explain what’s going on here - Dekachron uses a rather different 
> way of displaying time than the approach used by most dekatron clocks (eg 
> those by Ronald Dekker and Andreas Reinert). Typically one would have tubes 
> arranged in pairs like a nixie clock, indicating the hours (tens and 
> units), minutes (tens and units) and maybe seconds too. The position of the 
> glowing dot on the dekatron display denotes the digit value. So we’d 
> display 08:25 like this:
>
>  
> 
>
> However, Dekachron uses its dekatrons as a series of analogue clock faces, 
> one for hours, one for minutes and one for seconds. On each one it lights 
> up a sector of the circular display that corresponds to the position of the 
> relevant hand on a traditional analogue clock. So Dekachron displays 08:25 
> like this:
>
>  
>
>  
> 
>
> It's surprisingly easy to read with a little practice, because it taps 
> into how you learned to tell the time as a child. Displaying the time in 
> this way allows us to get a H:M:S display with only three tubes and also 
> opens the door to all kinds of funky visual effects, some of which are 
> shown in this short video (https://youtu.be/5LtvPJZnqM8).
>
>  If anyone is interested to build a Dekachron, a few kits are available – 
> PM me.
>
> Jon.
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
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> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/86cfd127-5ef7-4d34-9ee7-9d151b78a07an%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
> 
> 
> 
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Dekachron - new dekatron clock

['Ian Vine' via neonixie-l]

That is a cool design

> On 16 May 2021, at 17:10, Jon  wrote:
> 
> 
> The discussion in a recent thread about different glow patterns on a dekatron 
> reminds me that it’s high time I shared with you my latest clock… This is 
> Dekachron, a 3 tube dekatron clock.
> 
>  
> 
> 
> Just to explain what’s going on here - Dekachron uses a rather different way 
> of displaying time than the approach used by most dekatron clocks (eg those 
> by Ronald Dekker and Andreas Reinert). Typically one would have tubes 
> arranged in pairs like a nixie clock, indicating the hours (tens and units), 
> minutes (tens and units) and maybe seconds too. The position of the glowing 
> dot on the dekatron display denotes the digit value. So we’d display 08:25 
> like this:
> 
>  
> 
> 
> However, Dekachron uses its dekatrons as a series of analogue clock faces, 
> one for hours, one for minutes and one for seconds. On each one it lights up 
> a sector of the circular display that corresponds to the position of the 
> relevant hand on a traditional analogue clock. So Dekachron displays 08:25 
> like this:
> 
>  
> 
>  
> 
> 
> It's surprisingly easy to read with a little practice, because it taps into 
> how you learned to tell the time as a child. Displaying the time in this way 
> allows us to get a H:M:S display with only three tubes and also opens the 
> door to all kinds of funky visual effects, some of which are shown in this 
> short video (https://youtu.be/5LtvPJZnqM8).
> 
>  If anyone is interested to build a Dekachron, a few kits are available – PM 
> me.
> 
> Jon.
> 
> -- 
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> "neonixie-l" group.
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> 
> 
> 

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[neonixie-l] Re: Dekachron - new dekatron clock

[newxito]

That's a beautiful clock! 
I have some A101 lying around, I should do something with them... 

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[neonixie-l] Re: 14-digit nixie calculator project with clock function

[newxito]

In case anyone is still interested, there is some work in progress to make 
the project (IN-16 and IN-17 versions) available on github. 

The original project was not suitable for sharing for various reasons. I’ 
currently assembling two new calculators to test the changes I have made to 
improve the project:

- Smaller and simpler controller board with easy to solder parts. A hot air 
gun is no longer needed. Also, the HV part has been removed, so now you can 
use your favorite HV PSU (assuming it fits in the case and provides enough 
current for 14 nixies).

- The keyboard circuit has been redesigned using a classic matrix with an 
ATmega328p instead of the HT16K33. It is now easier to detect simultaneous 
keystrokes, so more levels of functions can be added to the keyboard

- The display boards have been completely redesigned to use socket boards 
for the nixies. That should fix the biggest issue with the old design. It’s 
now a lot easier to replace a broken tube 
(see the only document I have uploaded so far, so you can get a 
first impression)

- Major firmware changes in progress. All the settings can now be adjusted 
using the keyboard, a network connection is no longer needed. Actually, I 
will completely remove the network code. 

If everything works as expected, I hope I will have the project ready to 
share by end of June. 

https://github.com/axtar/14-digits-nixie-calculator


newxito schrieb am Montag, 1. März 2021 um 23:14:21 UTC+1:

> I’m cleaning up the firmware of the calculator and I have moved the code 
> for the calculations to a small separate library. 
> Actually, I would like to learn how to build unit tests and that’s the 
> ideal type of library to start with. 
> But I quickly found out that this is boring and not fun… so, no unit 
> tests...
> If someone is interested, here is the link :
> https://github.com/axtar/NixieCalc
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

[Richard Scales]

Sorry for type in previous - all tubes are used one way or another


On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 17:05:03 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:

> All tubes are used on way or another - for now - the central segments of 
> tubes 3 and 6 are used for flashing colons. They are also used when 
> displaying other information such as day, month, year, temperature and 
> pressure.
>
> - Richard
>
>
> On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 09:28:12 UTC+1 iavine wrote:
>
>> Really nice
>>
>> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
>>
>> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my 
>> existing panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>  - Richard
>>
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>>
>>> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
>>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
>>> The article referenced here: 
>>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>>>  
>>> where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
>>> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>>>
>>> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>>>
>>> /Martin
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>>

 That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
 current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
 be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
 180uA for the decimal points.
 I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
 that this is something I should get myself aware of.
 - RIchard

 On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:

> I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of 
> any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
> voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
> current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I 
> use 
> current-regulation in all of my designs.
>
> The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode 
> poisoning, and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume 
> sputtering is the dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, 
> such 
> as Burroughs and Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in 
> their datasheets; if typical is not specified then average the min and 
> max 
> values and use that.
>
> The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
> should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
> higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
> use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
> resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
>
> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
>
>> Hello,
>> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
>> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>>
>> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply 
>> suggests (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the 
>> voltage 
>> across the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>>
>> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
>> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
>> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
>> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
>> listed.
>>
>> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 
>> 0.35mA, r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage 
>> across the segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear 
>> to 
>> illuminate the segment of the display sufficiently.
>>
>> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
>> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended 
>> maintaining 
>> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>>
>> - Richard
>>
>> -- 
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
>> "neonixie-l" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
>> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/88454965-ae88-417e-bca5-2be5cc70319cn%40googlegroups.com
>>  
>> 

Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

[Richard Scales]

All tubes are used on way or another - for now - the central segments of 
tubes 3 and 6 are used for flashing colons. They are also used when 
displaying other information such as day, month, year, temperature and 
pressure.

- Richard


On Sunday, 16 May 2021 at 09:28:12 UTC+1 iavine wrote:

> Really nice
>
> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
>
> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my 
> existing panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
>
>
> 
>
>  - Richard
>
> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>
>> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
>> The article referenced here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>>  
>> where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
>> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>>
>> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>>
>> /Martin
>>
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
>>> current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
>>> be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
>>> 180uA for the decimal points.
>>> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
>>> that this is something I should get myself aware of.
>>> - RIchard
>>>
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
>>>
 I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of 
 any kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever 
 voltage you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper 
 current is not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
 current-regulation in all of my designs.

 The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
 and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
 dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
 Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
 typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.

 The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
 should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
 higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
 use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
 resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.

 On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:

> Hello,
> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
>
> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply 
> suggests (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the 
> voltage 
> across the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
>
> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
> listed.
>
> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across 
> the 
> segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to 
> illuminate 
> the segment of the display sufficiently.
>
> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
>
> - Richard
>
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/88454965-ae88-417e-bca5-2be5cc70319cn%40googlegroups.com
>  
> 
> .
>
> 
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

['Ian' via neonixie-l]

Really nice

> On 16 May 2021, at 05:25, Richard Scales  wrote:
> 
> I finally got around to lighting these up using a variation of my existing 
> panaplex clock kit, I am pleased with they way they turned out.
> 
> 
> 
>  - Richard
> 
>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 11:22:30 UTC Dekatron42 wrote:
>> Datasheet for the very similar MG-19B can be found here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/images/elfin-alco-mg-19b-digital-readout-tube-spec-sheet.jpg
>> The article referenced here: 
>> https://www.rfcafe.com/references/radio-electronics/digital-readouts-radio-electronics-august-1969.htm
>>  where the datasheet can be found can be downloaded here: 
>> https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-Radio-Electronics/60s/1969/Radio-Electronics-1969-08.pdf
>> 
>> Hope this helps some. I haven't read it nor checked it myself.
>> 
>> /Martin
>> 
>>> On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 06:52:08 UTC+1 Richard Scales wrote:
>>> 
>>> That seems like a sound plan - I shall stick to the recommended segment 
>>> current then via whatever resistor is required - in this case it seems to 
>>> be fairly well established that this is 350uA per segment and then around 
>>> 180uA for the decimal points.
>>> I have no knowledge about current limiting supplies though I'm thinking 
>>> that this is something I should get myself aware of.
>>> - RIchard
>>> 
 On Sunday, 21 March 2021 at 05:11:25 UTC gregebert wrote:
 I've always felt that the two critical parameters for neon displays of any 
 kind are the operating current and the striking-voltage. Whatever voltage 
 you get across the tube/bulb when it's operating at the proper current is 
 not important. Basically, "it is what it is". This is why I use 
 current-regulation in all of my designs.
 
 The operating current must be high enough to prevent cathode poisoning, 
 and low enough not to cause destruction (which I assume sputtering is the 
 dominant mechanism).  The better tube manufacturers, such as Burroughs and 
 Dalibor Farny, publish minimum and maximum current in their datasheets; if 
 typical is not specified then average the min and max values and use that.
 
 The anode-supply voltage must be higher than the striking voltage, and 
 should be a bit higher to allow for aging effects. It's OK to use even 
 higher voltage for the anode, but it just wastes energy. Even if you dont 
 use a current regulator, using a higher anode supply and a larger anode 
 resistor will approximate the same basic behavior.
 
> On Saturday, March 20, 2021 at 9:45:25 PM UTC-7 Richard Scales wrote:
> Hello,
> Does anyone here have any tested data on the maintaining voltage and 
> current requirements for these panaplex displays?
> 
> Tube-Tester suggests 150V and 0.35mA - which for a 170V supply suggests 
> (170-150)/0.35 K = about 56K. If I use that I measure the voltage across 
> the illuminated segment at around 131V and the current 0.68mA.
> 
> The tube is listed at SwissNixe - where I think that there could be a 
> type as it lists the maintaining voltage at 50V (perhaps it should be 
> 150V?) and the proposed series resistor value looks like it was computed 
> from a 30V voltage drop @ .35mA from a supply of 180V which is also 
> listed.
> 
> I recompute for a maintaining voltage of 130V and a current of 0.35mA, 
> r=(170-130)/0.35 K = 114K, so I use that and measure the voltage across 
> the segment to be  127V and current of 0.37mA - both tests appear to 
> illuminate the segment of the display sufficiently.
> 
> Would anyone using these (or even if you are not using them) care to 
> suggest what the real parameters might be for the recommended maintaining 
> voltage and current for maintaining a healthy lifestyle for these tubes?
> 
> - Richard
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "neonixie-l" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to neonixie-l+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web, visit 
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/neonixie-l/88454965-ae88-417e-bca5-2be5cc70319cn%40googlegroups.com.
> 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: MG-17F / MG-17G Panaplex Rodan/Elfin

[newxito]

Great work!  Are tubes 3 and 6 used to display the full date?

>

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