[neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[gregebert]

Did the tubes glow during analysis ?

Very clever instrument (XRF analyzer), but way beyond my budget, especially 
for something that I would use only as a toy. Saw listings on ebay starting 
around 10,000 USD.

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[neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[Jovani Pines]

For anyone still interested in the topic, I borrowed a handheld Thermo 
Fisher XRF analyser from a colleague of mine. I screened several Z573, 
IN-14 and IN-18 tubes. I also had faulty tubes which I took apart to screen 
the internals. I expected the nixies to be made soft glass - soda lime. 
Surprisingly all of the tubes I had are made of leaded glass. The 
instrument detected 20-25% of Pb in the glass alone. The red coating on the 
Z573 tubes contains cadmium slightly above the threshold. The rest of the 
substances were within norm. 



сряда, 8 август 2018 г., 12:34:49 UTC+1, Jovani Pines написа:
>
> Hello,
> Has anyone tried to obtain RoHS certification for old nixie tubes or for 
> modern homemade models?
>
> The point of interest to me is the mercury content. RoHS allows Hg only up 
> to 0.1% parts by weight of homogeneous material of the assembly. The exact 
> definition is as follows:
>
> *"The term "homogeneous" means "of uniform composition throughout". 
> Examples of "homogeneous materials" are individual types of: plastics, 
> ceramics, glass, metals, alloys, paper, board, resins and coatings. The 
> term “mechanically disjointed” means that the materials can, in principle, 
> be separated by mechanical actions such as: unscrewing, cutting, crushing, 
> grinding and abrasive processes."*
>
> Therefore, the getter pill/strip on its own is a homogeneous material that 
> can in theory be disjointed by mechanical action...
>
> On the other hand, in document 2002L0095 — EN — 25.09.2010 — 008.001 — 1  
> 
> Page 9 - M13 4(a), states that up to 15mg of Hg is allowed - *"Mercury in 
> other low pressure discharge lamps (per lamp)"*.
>
> This does not completely exempt nixie tubes from the mercury content but 
> at least it is provides some limit which can be used for comparison to the 
> XRF analysis from an RoHS certification lab.
>
> I will be eager to see if anyone else has thought about this :) 
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[threeneurons]

You can probably order RoHS certified stickers from a Chinese vendor.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[gregebert]

People like myself are also part of the problem; I still use leaded solder 
(a 1 pound roll lasts many years) and the PCBs I buy from China also have 
lead in the HASL finish.

Most of the parts I use in projects are purchased new from distributors 
like Digikey, and they show RoHS/REACH/Pb-free status.

As far as I know, the real hazard is when these items get disposed into 
landfills.

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[Mike Harrison]

On Wed, 8 Aug 2018 15:08:55 -0700 (PDT), you wrote:

>I agree. However, is the lack of enforcement, a good reason for 
>non-compliance?

Pragmatism. 
For something oddball like nixies, much easier to stay under the radar than 
start asking awkward
questions about mercury content. 

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[Jovani Pines]

I agree. However, is the lack of enforcement, a good reason for 
non-compliance?



сряда, 8 август 2018 г., 23:00:30 UTC+1, mikeselectricstuff написа:
>
>
> >I understand you point about liabilities, however aimed at hobbyist or 
> not, 
> >the clocks and tubes on the European market must be CE compliant. This 
> >applies to manufacturers and to distributors of consumer electronics 
> >products it is not just for industrial applications. 
>
> With all the blatently non-compliant and downright dangerous junk coming 
> from China, nobody is going 
> to be interested in the infinitessimaly small trade in nixie tubes. 
>
>
>

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Re: [neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[Mike Harrison]

>I understand you point about liabilities, however aimed at hobbyist or not, 
>the clocks and tubes on the European market must be CE compliant. This 
>applies to manufacturers and to distributors of consumer electronics 
>products it is not just for industrial applications.

With all the blatently non-compliant and downright dangerous junk coming from 
China, nobody is going
to be interested in the infinitessimaly small trade in nixie tubes.


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[neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[Jovani Pines]

Hi,
The RoHS test is one of the major requirements in order to obtain CE 
certification. Unfortunately, a lot of tube distributors, clock sellers and 
manufacturers do not have CE certification. I suspect that one of the main 
issues is precisely the RoHS compliance.

As far as I can tell Dalibor does include mercury dispenser strips in his 
tubes. As you said yourself this is in order to prolong the operational 
lifetime of the tubes. This is a datasheet (HYG/CTL/6.3-4.5 
)
 
of very similar product getter/Hg dispenser to what he uses (probably 
exactly the same). In his tubes there is about 10mm long strip which when 
fully activated with induction heating releases 4.5mg of Hg. This is still 
within the annex exemption cited above of 15mg per lamp (assuming that it 
is applicable). Weather he actually has RoHS and CE certification I do not 
know simply because there is no central register (database) where this can 
be verified. However having invested this much time and finances into this 
business I suppose his does have certification. I noticed on your website (
http://www.swissnixie.com/tubes/RZ568/) that you have purchased nixies from 
him. The CE mark should be clearly displayed on the tubes, or on the 
packaging if they are certified. 

Regarding the certification of old tubes I reckon it is possible, using non 
destructive XRF analysis. Whether it is cost effective, it probably depends 
on the volume tested. However there are huge inconsistencies in the 
getter/dispenser pills. For example I have 18pcs of Z573. From this small 
batch there are tubes with one, two or no pills at all. Hence, in the XRF 
analysis they are all likely to show different mercury concentrations.

I understand you point about liabilities, however aimed at hobbyist or not, 
the clocks and tubes on the European market must be CE compliant. This 
applies to manufacturers and to distributors of consumer electronics 
products it is not just for industrial applications.

Cheers,
Jovani


сряда, 8 август 2018 г., 19:28:14 UTC+1, SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F. написа:
>
> Hi, 
>
> Just my 2 cents:
>
> I think its not a question of possibility. First of all, i'm not sure if* 
> all *tubes even contain mercury because i bet Dalibor would not use 
> mercury on the tubes he makes. Usually mercury is only used in "long life" 
> tubes. 
>
> One issue is that probably the manufacturer needs to get the rohs 
> certification - and that would take all old tubes out of line. I don't 
> think you can't get a certification on a old stock product. 
>
> Also, there is the question why one would need the certification, which 
> costy and brings liablities. Nixie tubes are mostly only of interest for 
> hobby people, and most of them don't care about any industrial regulations 
> and a lot of them even solder with lead-containing solder wire...If you 
> actually want to sell a product conatining nixies you will have to follow 
> alot of other different regulations from the electronic authorities. I 
> wanted to sell a kit *really legally *but my dreams were blown to dust 
> when i found out what it would cost to get all needed licences, not 
> speaking about actually passing them, just the application for them.
>
> Cheers,
> Jonathan
>

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[neonixie-l] Re: RoHS Certification of Nixie Tubes

[SWISSNIXIE - Jonathan F.]

Hi, 

Just my 2 cents:

I think its not a question of possibility. First of all, i'm not sure if* 
all *tubes even contain mercury because i bet Dalibor would not use mercury 
on the tubes he makes. Usually mercury is only used in "long life" tubes. 

One issue is that probably the manufacturer needs to get the rohs 
certification - and that would take all old tubes out of line. I don't 
think you can't get a certification on a old stock product. 

Also, there is the question why one would need the certification, which 
costy and brings liablities. Nixie tubes are mostly only of interest for 
hobby people, and most of them don't care about any industrial regulations 
and a lot of them even solder with lead-containing solder wire...If you 
actually want to sell a product conatining nixies you will have to follow 
alot of other different regulations from the electronic authorities. I 
wanted to sell a kit *really legally *but my dreams were blown to dust when 
i found out what it would cost to get all needed licences, not speaking 
about actually passing them, just the application for them.

Cheers,
Jonathan

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