Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Eagle is now subscription-based

[John Rehwinkel]

> I bought a book on Eagle to learn,

I bought an Eagle book too, but didn't find it very helpful and ended up 
learning more from online tutorials.

> but I switched to DipTrace

That's another one I plan to investigate.

> when I realized how much Eagle would cost to make boards that would hold 8, 
> Z568 tubes.

Back when I was using the Hobbyist version of Eagle, I had a similar problem 
with a board for 8 IN-8-2 tubes, and another project with a microcontroller 
controlling a bunch of triacs.  In both cases, I ended up dividing the boards 
up.  Then IN-8-2 project, I split it into two boards of 4 tubes apiece with 
right-angle connectors between them and a vertical one using the same pads to 
bring the signals in.  This way, the two boards were identical, and with some 
PCB houses, that's a cheaper way to go (for example, OSHPark offers 3 copies of 
a board for a price based on the board's size).  The triac project ended up 
working the same way, I had a CPU board and then a bunch of 8-channel triac 
boards connected with ribbon cables.  This actually ended up making the 
solution fairly versatile, as some computer controlled lighting software 
supports 16 channels (so I'd use 2 8-channel boards), but some could utilize 
all 24 channels available (so I'd plug in 3 boards).

Even though I now have the full professional version of Eagle, I've found that 
the decision I once made of necessity I now still often make by choice.

- John


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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Eagle is now subscription-based

[John Rehwinkel]

>> What have Eagle folk here done about this - just wondering... It annoys me 
>> slightly, but I guess the previous licensing model was not paying the bills 
>> and Autocad are promising great things...

It was probably paying the bills, but bean counters love what they call 
"sticky" models, where the customers have to pay and pay to use something.  
Autodesk strongly implies that the additional money will fuel rapid 
improvements, and they do seem to be rolling out nice new features frequently.
> 


> I was gobsmacked when the licensing model for Eagle V8 was announced. I was 
> expecting/hoping for a model along the lines of the Fusion 360 3D package 
> i.e. free for hobbyists, education and small businesses (less than < $100k 
> turnover).
> 
I'm annoyed, but not surprised.  It would be nice if there were a hobbyist 
version, but I eventually outgrew the free version of Eagle and upgraded, 
ultimately to the pro version.  I have a lot of time invested in it.
> I did look around at other free or low cost offerings but like you I have a 
> huge time investment in Eagle and have many times many Eagle library 
> components draw up.
> 
Fortunately, modern versions of Eagle use an XML format, which can be 
reasonably easily parsed and transcoded into other formats, so I'm expecting 
I'll be able to bring my libraries with me in some form.
> My brother uses Design Spark so I did look at it carefully.
> 
I had a brief look at Design Spark (Elektor likes it), but as it's DOS-only, 
it's a non-starter for me.  Nick mentioned Altium, but it's expensive and also 
DOS-only (which rather negates their "user-friendly" claim).

I also looked at a couple of the online-only offerings, but I really like 
having software I can run locally.

My current front contender for a replacement is Kicad, which is free (always 
nice) and open source (which means that converters are likely available for 
existing Eagle designs, and if not, I can write them myself using the source 
code as a starting point and tool kit – if I end up doing so, I'll of course 
make any tools I develop freely available).  I might start contributing to 
Kicad itself too – it's a dandy way to encourage the kinds of features I prefer.
> But I have stuck with Eagle 7.7. I realise this is a dead-end product but I'm 
> still hopeful that Autocad will think again and change the model.
> 
Alas, I'm not too hopeful.  The Autodesk people seem like decent folks (they 
did keep Instructables free), but they can't help being old-school corporate 
(even the current Instructables has a bunch of nagging to "upgrade").
> I don't think there is anyway that Autocad can "turn off" Eagle 7.7?!?
> 

Technically they might be able to, but I'm confident they won't try.  The 
backlash from people who paid for it would be immense, in a well-connected 
community of current and potential paying customers.  However, I don't expect 
them to continue to update it, and ultimately, it probably won't run on newer 
operating systems and computers.  So people will have the choice of maintaining 
an older system to run it, or switching to another EDA suite (either the newer 
subscription form of Eagle, or some other package entirely).

Obviously it behooves Autodesk to make the new Eagle as appealing as possible, 
in order to gain and keep subscribers.  It may well become a very nice piece of 
software.

I don't automatically discard the notion of subscription software, but it's a 
numbers game.  For example, I use a subscription-based tool to run my vinyl 
cutter.  I do so on an irregular basis, so I don't keep up the subscription, I 
just buy a month whenever I wish to use it.  It's pretty cost effective that 
way, and I always get the latest version.  Many people buy HBO Go the same way, 
whenever a show they like enough is airing.  In this case, my light usage 
equates to small cost, so I'm fine with it.

However, with Eagle and Photoshop, I'm in a different situation.  I use both of 
them often enough that I'd have to buy a continuous subscription, but I don't 
make any money from either of them, so I deeply resent the significant cost for 
my lightweight hobbyist usage.  In both cases, my plan is the same: use the 
paid-up versions for as long as I can, then switch to something else (Kicad in 
the case of Eagle, Gimp in the case of Photoshop).

I'll be curious to see what the various maker companies do (I'm guessing 
AdaFruit will stick with Eagle, but SparkFun may well change horses).

- John


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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Eagle is now subscription-based

[Nick]

I am seriously considering Altium CircuitStudio.

It's expensive up front ($995), and the $150/pa, but it's a fully 
professional package from an extremely reputable source and imports all 
your Eagle files (incl. libraries).

It also has access to all of the many 100s of 1000s of components in 
Altium's libraries. No practical limitations at all, though it's not Altium 
 Designer (but it's a fraction of the cost).

Nick

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Re: [neonixie-l] OT: Eagle is now subscription-based

['Grahame' via neonixie-l]

Nick, All,

I was gobsmacked when the licensing model for Eagle V8 was announced. I 
was expecting/hoping for a model along the lines of the Fusion 360 3D 
package i.e. free for hobbyists, education and small businesses (less 
than < $100k turnover).


I did look around at other free or low cost offerings but like you I 
have a huge time investment in Eagle and have many times many Eagle 
library components draw up. My brother uses Design Spark so I did look 
at it carefully. But I have stuck with Eagle 7.7. I realise this is a 
dead-end product but I'm still hopeful that Autocad will think again and 
change the model.


I don't think there is anyway that Autocad can "turn off" Eagle 7.7?!?

Grahame


On 13/08/2017 14:21, Nick wrote:
As all Eagle users will know, Eagle was acquired from Premier Farnell 
at the start of the year and Eagle 8, the new version, has a 
completely different licensing model - it's now subscription based, 
starting at USD 15/pcm for the "standard" version and going up to USD 
65/pcm for the "professional" ones.


I'm a long-time Eagle user, probably for more than 15 years, so have a 
lot invested in it in terms of libraries and existing designs.


However, I can stake USD 100/pa (the annual up-front cost of the USD 
15/pcm option). but you need to be connected to the internet every 
couple of weeks for your Eagle license to stay active. If it expires, 
I'm told that you can still generate Gerbers from your old designs and 
even export in the old V7 format using the free version - our old 
licenses and software will keep working.


What have Eagle folk here done about this - just wondering... It 
annoys me slightly, but I guess the previous licensing model was not 
paying the bills and Autocad are promising great things...


Thoughts?

Nick
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