[NetBehaviour] Work description for Empyre email list
Work description for Empyre email list [ http://www.alansondheim.org/atl374.jpg automated university library, Raleigh, NC http://www.alansondheim.org/atl324.jpg mummy, university museum, Atlanta, GA http://www.alansondheim.org/atl360.jpg Raleigh, NC ] [I was one of a number of guests for the empyre email list in November, moderated by Murat Nemet-Nejab. For my intro, I prepared the following, which was extensively edited down. I still think it's a good description of my work for anyone coming to it. I'd change some things now, but will leave it as is. For what it's worth, my segment was with Adeena Karasick, during the election, which derailed the discussion.] My name is Alan Sondheim and I approve this message. I have been working with computers for decades, and specifically with virtual worlds and motion capture for the past fifteen or so. I developed the notion of 'codework' to indicate works in which code is presenced on the surface, but problematic - works in which meaning uneasily inhabits distinctions among 'worlds of the work' and program-spaces. Of course the distinctions themselves are problematic and entangled among many other things, such as the body, abjection, and 'dirt' in the mix. In motion capture, I've worked with altered software and mapping, producing distorted avatars and avatar behaviors. In virtual worlds, I've been working with concepts of gamespace, edgespace, and blankspace; here are some very rough definitions and examples - Gamespace - this is the rule-governed space of any game where 'game' is defined as anything from TAZ to Arctic exploration to chess; one plays within the rules. The rules can be fuzzy, invisible, even non-existent. Edgespace - my term for what occurs at the boundaries/borders of gamespace - where assumed behaviors fall apart, but gamespace still functions as a broken totality, although 'untoward' and contrary behaviors occur. Edgespace includes soft hacks, griefing, permeating in-game barriers, and so forth. Blankspace - here is where it gets interesting - my term for projections and introjections (psychoanalytical terms) for what happens in edgespace. Blankspace is the realm of dreams, fantasms, appearances, ideologies, suturings, and so forth. An example of the above - Gamespace - attempting the clean and proper mapping of the world, Mercator and other projections, GPS, etc. - the 'logic' of the map. Edgespace - the 'reading' of the Arctic and Antarctic regions of the world all the way through, say, 1880; these regions were presented on worldmaps as blanks, often with contradictory delineations of landmass/watermass (i.e. if you follow a shoreline, for example, from the land, it might transform into a shoreline from the sea) - there are 'logical' contradictions, etc., all embedded within the map itself as a sheet of assertion. See http://www.alansondheim.org/north06.jpg . Blankspace - this is what 'fills' edgespace - you get the quaint 'Heere bee dragonnes' placed in edgespaces - think of Mandeville's Travels. http://www.alansondheim.org/nord1.jpg Much of my recent work deals with blankspace: http://www.alansondheim.org/suicide.mp4 for example - this actually occurred; it's a few years old, but hopefully a clear example. All of these terms, regions, are entangled with each other; there are no clear boundaries, no absolute delineations. More recently, I've been think of semiotic splatter - fragmented and chaotic semiosis, and splatter both as control and dissolution. I use this term to indicate that semiosis is never gamespace, never totalized, falls apart, coagulates and clumps; it relates to defuge, the incessant presencing of material which appears more and more stale and derogated. Semiotic splatter is related to strange attractors in chaos theory and leads to the problematic of semiosis (semiotic generation) and coagulative hardening - for example the rise of totalitarianism out of (political, economic) chaos. The semiotic splatter material is at http://www.alansondheim.org/splatter.txt - a good introduction to my work in general. [Much of it is based on the violence done to HRC by Trump's bullying - trying to come to grips with the attack which unfortunately proved successful.] This connects to the idea/l of an absolute dictionary in which each definition is a tautology: 'syzygy = syzygy' for example - but the _effect_ of such definitions goes beyond this (saying an election is 'rigged' over and over again for example, rubs off, derogates, inhabits a projected abject space - and for me relates to a mythical deathdrive; if you have patience, watch the 4-minute http://www.alansondheim.org/losingvoice.mp4 ) Finally, my practice - to write/produce on a daily level; I've been doing daily pieces (text/music/image/video) since 1994, as a continuous meditation - at first, on 'cyberspace,' but now extended elsewhere. The most recent texts are at http://www.alansondheim.org/uf.txt and http://www.alansondheim.org/ug.txt [now uh.txt and
Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious
On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, Patrick Lichty wrote: However, I think that the world is entering a very tense, even dark time, and in an Adorno-esque way, perhaps it is good to consider what being committed as artists means again. It means at the least, not being committed, which in Trump's Amerikkka is a very real possibility. - ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious
I think we are in a very difficult time for artists. On one hand, we are in a point where work that at least derives from our culture is having some success in the Contemporary milieu, and I can't fault people wanting to look at conventional forms of success, although I am wondering whether being connected to elite strata suggests a complicity with authoritarian neoliberalism. (I am rattling that around a bit) And then there are the avant-gardeists, media tacticians and the like (where I have lived much of my life), who feel that art is a social force. And then there is the "follow your bliss, who cares about anything resembling a living" school where some of us also go. It's a very complex matrix of causes and effects, and I think that we can play hopscotch on this archipelago of modes, and many do. but saying this, I feel like few of us who are professional at all are pure in this respect, and it's good to admit that. However, I think that the world is entering a very tense, even dark time, and in an Adorno-esque way, perhaps it is good to consider what being committed as artists means again. On 12/13/16 2:50 PM, Gretta Louw wrote: Hi Alan, I think you’re misunderstanding me and getting bogged down in semantics. I do think that there are lots of people making really excellent art that is relevant to the world as it is today, I never suggested that that wasn’t the case. It’s great that you’ve found some of those people in Atlanta. I would say we can't characterisation the alt-right so easily. Many of them are not about vetting, definitions etc, but purely about self-interest and self-indulgence. It’s a form of instant gratification. There is no environment to be concerned about, there is no war outside of what it costs them, there is no humanity in other populations to fret over - there is just desire and self-interest. How people/artists choose to tackle these issues is not and should not be controlled. Different strategies are needed and will best suit different people, that’s as it should be. But I think for art to be relevant, worthwhile, anything other than a play-thing for the rich in our times, it needs to engage in a meaningful way with reality outside of the art world(s). And, yes, I am prepared to dedicate a lot of resources (time, emotional energy, support, opportunities) to helping the many creatives who are doing this important work right now. Anyway, that’s my two cents, got to run now, so I’ll bow out at this point. In solidarity, Gretta On 13 Dec 2016, at 11:31 AM, Alan Sondheimwrote: Hi Gretta, We're a bit in disagreement here, not too much. When you say "I am saying, we should urge ourselves to look outside of the art worlds, look at our context, our neighbours, our community, society, world, and try to make work that engages with that in the most meaningful ways we can." - that's precisely what seems to be going on in Atlanta for example and elsewhere that I see - there _is_ this engagement going on, but it's without the "should urge" - it's happening. The zines for example I saw were relevant, were coming out of community. But they don't fall into the categories, as far as I can see, that we discuss here. You say "we also can?t just remove all categorisation and say "art is art is art" and allow ourselves to just indulge in whatever creative pursuit is most fun (by that obviously I also mean, potentially, intellectually stimulating etc) at that particular time in our specific creative sandbox." - and that still worries me. I remember talking with Laurie Anderson precisely about this - the idea of "fun" - which see (and I) saw as subversive itself - the last thing a lot of artists want is that sense of play - but play also undermines ideology, brings one to think deeper & in other ways. I've taught at a lot of art schools, and the painters were usually the most conservative students / teachers - but they also were the ones who, by virture of the slow image production, different and sometimes anideological thinking etc., actually were the most radical, just not in the usual sense. You say, "they?ve let themselves drift to far into self-reflexiveness. Let this be a time where they reassess and redirect." - and perhaps we need to do that reassessment ourselves; the phrase "drift too far" is already prejorative, already an exclusion. Here's the problem - "Let this be a time where they reassess and redirect." - because that's also what the right in the usa wants, it's what corporate artschools like SCAD (Savannah College of Art and Design, notorious) also say. For me it's troubling. There should be room, I think, for everything, everyone; I'm arguing a bit here for eliminating categorization, yes, but that doesn't create saying "art is art is" etc. - it means the opposite, seeing what lies behind the definition (who cares what art is - that can lead to connoisseurship etc etc) - seeing what the artist
[NetBehaviour] [spectre] Open call // Interface BIAS // HANGAR [Barcelona]
Dear all, We are happy to announce our open call for a two months artistic residence focusing on "Interface Bias". The residency will be developed within the framework of the Critical Interface Politics research group at HANGAR [Barcelona]. The period of residence will be from the 15th of March to the 15th of May 2017 (eight consecutive weeks). Fees: 2200€. Summary The programme MEMBRANA #2 – Residency For Artistic Interface Criticism aims to provide support to a visual artist interested in developing an artwork based on the concept of Interface Bias. The artist will develop his/her project during a eight weeks residency at Hangar (Barcelona). She/he will also be invited to participate in the ongoing investigation of the Critical Interface Politics research group, part of the European project IMAGIT, which involves contributing to the development of the “Critical Interface Toolbox”, an online resource for critical interface design. We are looking for an artist working with the concept of “Bias” within Interfaces, willing to contribute to the research that we are carrying out through the materialization of an artwork. The artwork can be developed in any artistic media. We encourage artists to submit proposals that raise critical approaches to the material and immaterial architectures of mediated culture through designed interfaces. Keywords: artistic research, algorithmic politics, algorithmic bias, interface governance, critical interface design, online tracking, Internet physicality, geopolitics of the Internet, visual arts, software studies, cultural studies, media theory, open culture, big data, hacktivism, digital symbolism. + Deadline for applications: January 10th 2017 at 00:00h (GMT +1). + Info: https://hangar.org/en/recerca/convocatories/espanol-convocatoria-membrana-2-residencia-artistica-para-una-aproximacion-critica-de-la-interfaz/ + Contact: joana.m...@hangar.org ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious
Hi Alan, I think you’re misunderstanding me and getting bogged down in semantics. I do think that there are lots of people making really excellent art that is relevant to the world as it is today, I never suggested that that wasn’t the case. It’s great that you’ve found some of those people in Atlanta. I would say we can't characterisation the alt-right so easily. Many of them are not about vetting, definitions etc, but purely about self-interest and self-indulgence. It’s a form of instant gratification. There is no environment to be concerned about, there is no war outside of what it costs them, there is no humanity in other populations to fret over - there is just desire and self-interest. How people/artists choose to tackle these issues is not and should not be controlled. Different strategies are needed and will best suit different people, that’s as it should be. But I think for art to be relevant, worthwhile, anything other than a play-thing for the rich in our times, it needs to engage in a meaningful way with reality outside of the art world(s). And, yes, I am prepared to dedicate a lot of resources (time, emotional energy, support, opportunities) to helping the many creatives who are doing this important work right now. Anyway, that’s my two cents, got to run now, so I’ll bow out at this point. In solidarity, Gretta > On 13 Dec 2016, at 11:31 AM, Alan Sondheimwrote: > > > Hi Gretta, > > We're a bit in disagreement here, not too much. When you say "I am saying, we > should urge ourselves to look outside of the art worlds, look at our context, > our neighbours, our community, society, world, and try to make work that > engages with that in the most meaningful ways we can." - that's precisely > what seems to be going on in Atlanta for example and elsewhere that I see - > there _is_ this engagement going on, but it's without the "should urge" - > it's happening. The zines for example I saw were relevant, were coming out of > community. But they don't fall into the categories, as far as I can see, that > we discuss here. You say "we also can?t just remove all categorisation and > say "art is art is art" and allow ourselves to just indulge in whatever > creative pursuit is most fun (by that obviously I also mean, potentially, > intellectually stimulating etc) at that particular time in our specific > creative sandbox." - and that still worries me. I remember talking with > Laurie Anderson precisely about this - the idea of "fun" - which see (and I) > saw as subversive itself - the last thing a lot of artists want is that sense > of play - but play also undermines ideology, brings one to think deeper & in > other ways. I've taught at a lot of art schools, and the painters were > usually the most conservative students / teachers - but they also were the > ones who, by virture of the slow image production, different and sometimes > anideological thinking etc., actually were the most radical, just not in the > usual sense. > > You say, "they?ve let themselves drift to far into self-reflexiveness. > Let this be a time where they reassess and redirect." - and perhaps we need > to do that reassessment ourselves; the phrase "drift too far" is already > prejorative, already an exclusion. Here's the problem - "Let this be a time > where they reassess and redirect." - because that's also what the right in > the usa wants, it's what corporate artschools like SCAD (Savannah College of > Art and Design, notorious) also say. For me it's troubling. There should be > room, I think, for everything, everyone; I'm arguing a bit here for > eliminating categorization, yes, but that doesn't create saying "art is art > is" etc. - it means the opposite, seeing what lies behind the definition (who > cares what art is - that can lead to connoisseurship etc etc) - seeing what > the artist is saying, what motivates her etc. > > So I'm torn, I agree with you below and it worries me at the same time. The > work that interests me is embedded, opens up vistas, creates and intensifies > wonder, opens up paths for contemplation as well as action, makes the world a > bit better and seem a bit deeper, encourages, acts, heals, enlarges our view > of things, creates a space for community and individual politics and > education. And what occurs on the right in Amerikka is just the opposite - > closure, boundary, definitions, vetting, etc. - what the Lakoff's, if I > remember correctly, talked about as a regime of the stern father. HE's the > one who knows right from wrong, right action from wrong action etc. (Just > occurred to me, we have here two literary figures in the 19th cent. - Whitman > and Dickinson - the former was engaged in community (see his war writings) > and worked with, dealt with, the larger community in a new way, opening up > vistas, empowering; - and the latter opened up internal territories that > educate, move, inspire, and are
Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious
Hi Gretta, We're a bit in disagreement here, not too much. When you say "I am saying, we should urge ourselves to look outside of the art worlds, look at our context, our neighbours, our community, society, world, and try to make work that engages with that in the most meaningful ways we can." - that's precisely what seems to be going on in Atlanta for example and elsewhere that I see - there _is_ this engagement going on, but it's without the "should urge" - it's happening. The zines for example I saw were relevant, were coming out of community. But they don't fall into the categories, as far as I can see, that we discuss here. You say "we also can?t just remove all categorisation and say "art is art is art" and allow ourselves to just indulge in whatever creative pursuit is most fun (by that obviously I also mean, potentially, intellectually stimulating etc) at that particular time in our specific creative sandbox." - and that still worries me. I remember talking with Laurie Anderson precisely about this - the idea of "fun" - which see (and I) saw as subversive itself - the last thing a lot of artists want is that sense of play - but play also undermines ideology, brings one to think deeper & in other ways. I've taught at a lot of art schools, and the painters were usually the most conservative students / teachers - but they also were the ones who, by virture of the slow image production, different and sometimes anideological thinking etc., actually were the most radical, just not in the usual sense. You say, "they?ve let themselves drift to far into self-reflexiveness. Let this be a time where they reassess and redirect." - and perhaps we need to do that reassessment ourselves; the phrase "drift too far" is already prejorative, already an exclusion. Here's the problem - "Let this be a time where they reassess and redirect." - because that's also what the right in the usa wants, it's what corporate artschools like SCAD (Savannah College of Art and Design, notorious) also say. For me it's troubling. There should be room, I think, for everything, everyone; I'm arguing a bit here for eliminating categorization, yes, but that doesn't create saying "art is art is" etc. - it means the opposite, seeing what lies behind the definition (who cares what art is - that can lead to connoisseurship etc etc) - seeing what the artist is saying, what motivates her etc. So I'm torn, I agree with you below and it worries me at the same time. The work that interests me is embedded, opens up vistas, creates and intensifies wonder, opens up paths for contemplation as well as action, makes the world a bit better and seem a bit deeper, encourages, acts, heals, enlarges our view of things, creates a space for community and individual politics and education. And what occurs on the right in Amerikka is just the opposite - closure, boundary, definitions, vetting, etc. - what the Lakoff's, if I remember correctly, talked about as a regime of the stern father. HE's the one who knows right from wrong, right action from wrong action etc. (Just occurred to me, we have here two literary figures in the 19th cent. - Whitman and Dickinson - the former was engaged in community (see his war writings) and worked with, dealt with, the larger community in a new way, opening up vistas, empowering; - and the latter opened up internal territories that educate, move, inspire, and are solitary and breathtaking. We need both here. Both refused boundary in different ways... Sorry to go on here; you're inspiring and basically I think on one hand you're right, and on the other, cultural workers of all sorts have a hard enough time; we need to support each other deeply... - Alan On Tue, 13 Dec 2016, Gretta Louw wrote: Haha, Alan there is no imperative in what I said, there is a plea, a hope, a wish. The imperative comes from outside and above - the imperative to ?make a living?, the imperative to pay taxes, the imperative to write reports with quantitative analysis of why funding you received was well spent etc. What I said is the opposite of all that. And while I agree that categorising specific works or sometimes even specific genres is usually a waste of time, we also can?t just remove all categorisation and say "art is art is art" and allow ourselves to just indulge in whatever creative pursuit is most fun (by that obviously I also mean, potentially, intellectually stimulating etc) at that particular time in our specific creative sandbox. I am saying, we should urge ourselves to look outside of the art worlds, look at our context, our neighbours, our community, society, world, and try to make work that engages with that in the most meaningful ways we can. I am reading a lot of artists online at the moment lamenting that they don?t feel that their work is relevant in these Trumpland/Aleppo/Brexit/Refugee Crisis days, and I think some of them are right, they?ve let
[NetBehaviour] Timothy Morton: Ecology without Nature
Dear Coleagues, We publish an interview to Timothy Morton: Ecology without Nature by Roc Jiménez de Cisneros. URL: http://lab.cccb.org/en/tim-morton-ecology-without-nature/ Is man still the measure of all things? The current environmental crisis underscores the urgency of moving beyond the anthropocentric frame of reference and understanding that we are not the ultimate object of the planet. In defiance of the paternalism of certain environmental movements, "dark ecology" defends irony and ugliness as means to raise awareness. The article helps us giving context to both: - Cultural Innovation International Prize, which its second Edition tackles climate change >> http://www.cccb.org/en/framework/file/climate-change/224133 - Exhibition: After the end of the world (october 2017) http://www.cccb.org/en/exhibitions/file/after-the-end-of-the-world/224747 Thank you very much for the attention, we hope you like it. Maria Farràs CCCB Lab 933 064 100 @cccblab / Blog del CCCB LAB Montalegre, 5. 08001 Barcelona T 933 064 100 / http://www.cccb.org AVÍS DE CONFIDENCIALITAT. Aquest missatge conté informació confidencial sotmesa a secret professional. Si no en sou el destinatari no esteu autoritzat a llegir-ne, copiar-ne o difondre'n el contingut. Si heu rebut el correu per error, us preguem que el destruïu i que ens ho comuniqueu immediatament. Gràcies per la vostra col·laboració. No l'imprimiu si no és necessari. AVISO DE CONFIDENCIALIDAD. Este mensaje contiene información confidencial sometida a secreto profesional. Si usted no es e l destinatario de este mensaje no está autorizado a leer, copiar o difundir su contenido. En caso de error, rogamos lo destruya y nos lo comunique inmediatamente. Gracias por su colaboración. No lo imprima si no es necesario. CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE This message contains confidential information subject to professional secrecy. If you are not the intended recipient of this message you are not authorised to read, copy, or disseminate its contents. In this case, we kindly ask you to destroy this email and inform us immediately. Do not print this message if it is not strictly necessary. ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
[NetBehaviour] Data Asymmetries: An Interview with Burak Arikan
Data Asymmetries: An Interview with Burak Arikan | By Carleigh How does network mapping exist as a tool for visualizing a politics of control as well as routes of emancipation from surveillance? In the first of a two-part interview series, artist/technologist Burak Arikan addresses this question in the context of his work on network mapping and diagramming the invisible forces of power that shape our contemporary moment. Burak Arikan is one of Turkey’s leading media artists, a figure who straddles the lines between technologist and practitioner. He explores relations between data and transactions, the regimes of datafication and identification as control, and maps relations of power and invisible infrastructures with network mapping tools. According to new media theorist Jussi Parikka, Burak’s pieces “raise questions of the predictability of ordinary human behavior with MyPocket(2008); reveal insights into the infrastructure of megacities like Istanbul as a network of mosques, republican monuments and shopping malls (Islam, Republic, Neoliberalism, 2012); remap and organise recurring patterns in the official tourism commercials of governments with Monovacation (2012); explore the growth of networks via visual and kinetic abstraction with Tense (2007-2012); and showcase collective production of network maps from the Graph Commons platform.” http://www.furtherfield.org/features/interviews/data-asymmetries-interview-burak-arikan ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour
Re: [NetBehaviour] I saw this from Annie. It made me sad...and curious
Haha, Alan there is no imperative in what I said, there is a plea, a hope, a wish. The imperative comes from outside and above - the imperative to “make a living”, the imperative to pay taxes, the imperative to write reports with quantitative analysis of why funding you received was well spent etc. What I said is the opposite of all that. And while I agree that categorising specific works or sometimes even specific genres is usually a waste of time, we also can’t just remove all categorisation and say "art is art is art" and allow ourselves to just indulge in whatever creative pursuit is most fun (by that obviously I also mean, potentially, intellectually stimulating etc) at that particular time in our specific creative sandbox. I am saying, we should urge ourselves to look outside of the art worlds, look at our context, our neighbours, our community, society, world, and try to make work that engages with that in the most meaningful ways we can. I am reading a lot of artists online at the moment lamenting that they don’t feel that their work is relevant in these Trumpland/Aleppo/Brexit/Refugee Crisis days, and I think some of them are right, they’ve let themselves drift to far into self-reflexiveness. Let this be a time where they reassess and redirect. > On 13 Dec 2016, at 5:15 AM, Alan Sondheimwrote: > > > > Is there a mainstream art world? "The mainstream art world waited to utter > the term "Internet art" until they could safely add the prefix "post-" to it" > Jon Ippolito I think these reifications might be too simple, as are internet > art, net art, post digital, digital, and so forth. I'm not interested in art > about art in any sort of self-reflexive way, but I haven't anything against > artists who explore that; for me while I agree completely with " We need to > make work about things that matter more and are more grounded in the body, > the land, in depth and real experience." - I worry about the underlying > imperative here. There's depth in art about art, there's real experience > there as well. All of these categories limit and limit ourselves, I think - > for me, issues of communality, exploration, philosophy, the commons, diwo, > diy, all of these are interrelated. I keep thinking of how Amerikkka at this > point is all about drawing boundaries, and art history itself is one of those > boundaries - canons, genera, media, new media, etc., etc. Just expressing a > worry here, too many categories, maybe too many dismissals by virtue of the > categories - Also, again where Marc says "- as in, take full control of its > once grass roots identity, and own its history and future; and turn it all > into its own pliable set of products." - as it was pointed out to me last > night, a great deal of media-oriented art never was grass-roots for example. > I can use myself here - I began in a terak mini-computer in the 70s creating > drawing program w/ pascal etc. I had help - not course-wise, but academic > help on the side; I used equipment that at that time would have cost tens and > tens of thousands of USD - and a whole world opened up - in dialog with the > institution that gave me freedom to work with the equipment. And I think > there's a problem also with " but only so that all the typical top-down > defaults of the mainstream can take it apart and force it to reflect its own > intentions and belief systems" - I do understand what is meant by > "mainstream," but after looking again at Atlanta art for example - ranging > from the Printed Matter zinefest to an auction where artist exchange work > among themselves to the current highly charged Atlanta Biennale at the > Atlanta Contemporary, to Agnes Scott showing work dealing with southern > identity and narrative, including an intense piece by Bessie Harvey etc. - > I'm not sure where the "mainstream" actually is, or whether it serves any > purpose to personify it. I'd like to see all these categories exploded so > that we might proceed w/ looking and listening to everyone and anyone, > finding our own paths through the creative debris ranging from monetary > systems to zines to vr to the future of perception itself etc. > > We just got in to Washington DC, discussing policy with one of the heads of a > critical ngo, my head is reeling more than realing here. I bring this up > because I feel more than ever the need for concrete politics and a breakdown > of any barriers, aesthetic and otherise, at this point. Too many walls... > > Hope this makes some sense - Alan > ___ > NetBehaviour mailing list > NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org > http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour ___ NetBehaviour mailing list NetBehaviour@netbehaviour.org http://www.netbehaviour.org/mailman/listinfo/netbehaviour