Re: VW

[incumbent]

   On Sep 25, 2015, at 2:01 PM, t byfield <[1]tbyfi...@panix.com> wrote:

So, right there, VW diesel owners have a pretty ironclad case for what
boils down to speculative financial compensation: the difference
between what the cars 'would have been worth' if this flaw hadn't been
exposed and what they *are* worth -- which is zero, if only because no
one in their right mind would buy one (and in many cases reale may now
be forbidden by law).

   I wouldn't say that. For whatever reason I haven't heard or read
   anything about the actual impact to the driver in terms of what the
   performance will be like if they do repair/replace in-field.

   I've heard people say it was to make VW cars drive better and perform
   better but nobody ever seems to quantify that. Is it simply a net loss
   of bhp? Torque? Idle hesitation? What's the problem with these cars if
   they are in compliance with regulations?

   And how has this not turned into a grassfire that sucks up all VW
   brands? Audi has TDI engines too. Porsche might offer a diesel turbo
   Cayenne? Seat surely has a few diesels potentially impacted?

   I think it's likely every car manufacturer is engaged in similar
   behavior. If it's handled like the corruption and dishonesty in the
   financial sector I'm sure we'll all be just fine.


#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org

Re: ttip: digital respect and resistance

[Kristoffer Gansing]

Dear Felix, Olia, Susanne and all,

Thanks for your thoughtful responses.

Picking up on Susanne Gerbers last point:

>  Is it not possible, that digital culture, or at least parts of it, in
> the meantime has switched sides and belongs already more to the TTIP
> creators? Then we have to rethink the whole context
> and 'Berührungsangst' would mean something else.

Maybe I should first clarify that this was a quickly written statement
for a presentation of transmediale as a partner in the EMARE, media art
residency exchange programme set up by Werkleitz, a fantastic long
running media art organisation in Halle (and the village of Werkleitz).
This exchange programme has shifting geographical focus but this year
the partners came from Germany, Canada and Australia. So in this
context, my aim was not to say that this type of exchange shares the
same set of values underwriting agreements like TTIP but because of its
international structure could have potential to form an important
enclave in the resistance against this and the other agreements. It
would of course be only one among many initiatives and not the most
significant one, but I do see a lack of transnational coalitions
opposing TTIP in the cultural sector as the debates at least when it
relates to Germany and France seem to follow the usual protectionist
lines of argument, where protecting cultural diversity (in the UNESCO
sense) is foremost about protecting national cultures or European
cultural heritage. I am not arguing against safeguarding
particularities, but it seems to me that what has especially been built
up in parts of the net culture / digital art spheres, perhaps through
tele-presence in a positive sense, are transversal forms of thinking and
practice, that yes, might seem simply to be contingent with the
exploitative planetary networks of the "Three Big T's", but which are
eventually underwritten by completely different values and goals.

This is where Felix rightly points to the key issue of the feeling of
powerlessness of the individual and specialized settings towards these
immense meta-frameworks that seem to challenges everything at once. And
yet we have known for a long time that even without these agreements,
this is where the world is going and maybe it is time to accentuate the
conflicts and differences within what seems to be one big picture or one
big collect it all scheme. As I am pretty sure that even if as Olia
pointed out, it's "Drones yesterday, Snowden today" (or rather the other
way around), the engagement with these topics is not just a
capitalisation from culture professionals of trending social and
economic agendas, but also stemming from a genuine, however at times
misinformed or naive, intention to change our perception, knowledge and
agency in such issues. Many times, this is also a question of developing
new vocabularies instead of trying to bridge the differences or find the
common points of understanding, I think it is now far more relevant to
find ways of making the different positions clear which would amount to
an understanding of the meta-levels - this is what is needed to at all
adress something like the regulation of the regulation and not become
lost in the echo-chambers or opinion against opinion bubbles.

best,
Kristoffer


#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org

Re: The Gentrification of Hacking: How yuppies hacked the

[patrice]

The answer to this, dear Jaromil, is oeuf corse to simply 'do it' (the 
practical work on the ground and in the streets) - and not talk too much 
about it since it attracts all kinds of un-called for, time wasting - or 
worse - attention. Meanwhile let's keep nettime as the enjoyable 
digi-paper of records of the chattering net.art.cult.philo classes. No 
bother and certainly no need to reform nettime into some mouthpiece of 
the one and only politically correct approach.

Cheers from sinking Venezia,
p+2D!


On 2015-10-11 20:36, Jaromil wrote:

> dear nettimers,
> 
> spot on the topic, in Rome's university La Sapienza yesterday
> researchers and students were protesting with a peaceful sit-in...
> against the Maker Faire!


#  distributed via : no commercial use without permission
#is a moderated mailing list for net criticism,
#  collaborative text filtering and cultural politics of the nets
#  more info: http://mx.kein.org/mailman/listinfo/nettime-l
#  archive: http://www.nettime.org contact: nett...@kein.org

Re: The Gentrification of Hacking: How yuppies hacked the

[xDxD.vs.xDxD]

   hi!
   spot on the topic, in Rome's university La Sapienza yesterday researchers and
   students were protesting with a peaceful sit-in... against the Maker Faire!
   
http://ilmanifesto.info/alla-sapienza-contestata-la-maker-faire-una-vetrina-per-il-business-sullinnovazione/
 on the topic: 
https://www.facebook.com/groups/fabberintialia/permalink/976572735741364/
   a large discussion (in Italian) about the protest, hosted in the
   "Fabber in Italia" Facebook group, maybe Italy's largest community for makers
   it's a bit of a shocking conversation.
   most of the members of what is, in their words, is a "movement", with
   "social values" and a focus on the approaches of "openness" and
   "solidarity" share the following thoughts about the protesters:
   "4 sfigati in cerca di pubblicità "
   ("4 loosers in search of visibility")
   "il biglietto di ben 5 euro?"
   ("all this for a ticket of 5 euros?")
   "secondo me sono dei poveri imbecilli.."
   ("if you ask me, they are sad idiots")
   "...non è interessato alla fiera, semplicemente perché non
   interessato all'innovazione"
   ("they're not interested in the fair, simply because they're not
   interested in innovation")
   "non hanno argomentazioni"
   ("they have no argument")
   "stiamo dando peso ad una cosa da non prendere nemmeno in
   considerazione"
   ("we are dedicating effort to something which does not deserve it")
   "roba da pazzi! un gruppo fb per lamentarsi di 2 giorni di chiusura
   dell'ateneo? ma qui siamo alla follia!"
   ("it's crazy! a fb group to protest about a 2 days closure of the
   university? it's madness!")
   "Quando cercheranno lavoro cambieranno le loro teste"
   ("when they'll go looking for a job, they'll change their mind")
   "L'innovazione senza business non esiste [...] Nelle aule universitarie
   dovrebbero iniziare a spiegare con sempre più insistenza che i soldi e
   il business non sono il demonio! Sono lo strumento per migliorare la
   ricerca, l'innovazione, i territori e le vite delle persone.
   Liberalizziamo la ricchezza anche in Italia!"
   ("innovation without business does not exist [...] In university
   classes, they should start teaching with insistence that money and
   business are not the demon! They are the instruments to do better
   research, innovation, to makes territories and people's lives better.
   Let's liberate richness in Italy, too!")
   "Mi sembra autolesionismo"
   ("it looks like self-harm")
   some even express opinions about the education system:
   "I ragazzi che vanno all'università , nel 90% dei casi, ci vanno
   perchè costretti dai genitori o perchè vedono un futuro nero davanti
   a loro, non perchè gli piace studiare e annessi.  [...]  non vedo
   nemmeno perchè dovremmo sforzarci a far apprezzare a persone
   disinteressate cose che dovrebbero affascinare già di default tutti,
   dal bambino all'anziano? va benissimo così, pensiamo a noi stessi,
   dentro troveremo solamente persone consapevoli ed interessate e magari
   nascerà qualche dialogo costruttivo (per noi). Gli altri lasciali
   manifestare, sprecheranno voce, tempo e salute."
   ("the kids who attend university, 90% of the times, go there because of
   their parents, or because they see a black future in front of them, not
   because they enjoy studying [...] Â i don't see why we should dedicate
   efforts to them, because they are not interested in those things which
   should be of interest for everyone, from children to elderly, by
   default. It's fine like this, let's think about ourselves; inside we
   will find people who are aware and interested, and, maybe, some
   constructive dialogue (for us) will take place. Let the others protest,
   they will waste voice, time and health.")
   "le università italiane, ovvero i docenti italiani, ancora di fab lab,
   sharing economy, fabbricazione digitale non come "fine", ma come
   "strumento" di studio, ricerca e lavoro, ancora non sanno cosa farsene,
   non ne conoscono i motivi, non ne apprezzano le potenzialità "
   ("Italian universities, italian professors, don't know what to do with
   fablabs, sharing economies, digital fabbing, not as a tool, but as an
   instrument for study, research and work, they don't know the reasons
   and motives, they don't appreciate the potentialities")
   "a me pare ovvio che la cosa vada interpretata come [...] un atto di
   appropriazione da parte dell'Università sulle tematiche di MF"
   ("it seems to me that it is obvious how this thing should be
   interpreted as [...] an appropriation of the themes of the maker faire
   by the university")
   "L'Università guadagna in immagine Sua e dei suoi ricercatori e
   studenti [...] contatti con le aziende per il loro placement dopo
   laurea insomma grande maquillage per tornare nei ranking
   internazionali"
   ("the university gains in terms of its own image and the one of its
   researchers and students [...] contacts with companies for their
   placem