Hallo Ana
Dear John I am not sure if we are talking in parallell ways. When
I am talking potlach I am talking from an anthropologist view (I
am a trained anthropologist) and we are definitely talking about
exchanges both in the symbolical view and in the physical form.
I understand that much
Dear Nettimers,
I allow myself to weigh in on this very interesting debate with
a side-note on the estimations concerning the valuation Facebook
is set to achieve through the ongoing IPO process. I would argue
that the enormous difference between current revenues and projected
market value
Brian was criticized at the start of this thread for suggesting not enough
thinking went into the critiques of Facebook's IPO. I would add not enough
knowledge. For a valuation of $100 billion, at the normal rate accepted by the
stockmarket in the US, that means Facebook needs to earn profits
So, according to Michael's numbers, to live up to its valuation, Facebook will
need to quintuple its profits fast -- without alienating users. That will
likely be challenging, especially at a time when its aggressive tactics have
drawn a lot more attention to its legally suspect strategies (at
On 03/07/2012 12:57 AM, Mark Andrejevic wrote:
If you boil it down, the valuation of Facebook is based on the promise of
the power of the social graph and detailed forms of targeting and
data-mining to do what? To serve the needs of advertisers. What needs? To
move products and sell services.
I apologize to go into the discussion so late but I am moderating this
month's discussion at -empyre and it feels the time and the writing skills
have indeed a limit :)
I was a user of Second Life and remember the discussions about the virtual
sweatshops where young Mexicans and Koreans worked for
Just a line to thank all the above for a great thread that could run
and run. When combined with the other threads, Nettime has really hit
a purple patch in the last week, a genuine symposium of intellectual
politics or political intellectualism. And now Ana has served up three
of my favourite
Haha, join -empyre if you want to have another cup!
I enjoy Nettime and Empyre both, it's a great intellectual exchange!
Ana
On Thu, Mar 8, 2012 at 6:50 PM, Keith Hart ke...@thememorybank.co.ukwrote:
Just a line to thank all the above for a great thread that could run and
run. When combined
Dear John I am not sure if we are talking in parallell ways. When I am
talking potlach I am talking from an anthropologist view (I am a trained
anthropologist) and we are definitely talking about exchanges both in the
symbolical view and in the physical form.
The most gifts exchanged were not
.
On 03/04/2012 03:22 AM, Jonathan Marshall wrote:
People using facebook, or any other source, engage in labour. The
question here is do they get the full return on that labour?
I don't think it makes sense to pose the question like this, for the
reasons that Michael's text, which started
Dear all,
thanks for the stimulating discussion.
Let me add some reflection from the point of view of an urbanist which
considers media and ICT as undistinguished and integral part of the urban field.
In my idea, to a marxist reading of Facebook as a place of labour exploitation,
it would be
On 03/03/2012 08:22 PM, Jonathan Marshall wrote:
Let me put it this way, if you will allow. People using facebook, or
any other source, engage in labour. The question here is do they get
the full return on that labour? The answer is, I believe, 'no'. Do
they get anything from that labour, yes
Are we getting into the right issues here? The debate seems to have moved
to the ethics of sites like Facebook and whether they are exploitative,
whereas this thread started with the question of whether capitalism will
survive a world of value abundance. To begin with this, my sense is that
it
On 03/01/2012 08:23 PM, Jonathan Marshall wrote:
To me, the problem is the complexity of what is to be thought, and
a general refusal to allow paradox - ie that something can be both
good and bad, that it can have contradictory drives - to exist
within the same thought.
I'm generally on
Brian writes:
What I have found very limiting in recent years, in the
discourse around so-called web 2.0, is the use of Marx's notion of
exploitation in the strict sense, where your labor power is alienated
into the production of a commodity and you get an exchange value in
return.
I'll confess
Brian writes:
For years I have been dismayed by a very common refusal to think. The
dismaying part is that it's based on the work of European history's
greatest political philosopher, Karl Marx. It consists in the assertion
that social media exploits you, that play is labor, and that Facebook is
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