Re: [Nix-dev] New website
On Fri, May 30, 2014, at 11:49 PM, Ertugrul Söylemez wrote: > On Fri, 30 May 2014 13:27:00 -0700 > "M. P. Ashton" wrote: > > > I don't mind the new website at all. I think it looks nice, and it does > > seem more professional than the old one. > > If you need to look like some Enter Prise Service (typos intended) to > deserve the "professional" label, I'm happy to look unprofessional. [...] I'm afraid I must not have written very clearly. I certainly didn't intend to imply that you were wrong about anything. I just thought I'd tell Dr Dolstra and the list about my own experience, since it was obviously very different to yours and the other fellow's. (And was also not "wrong".) I'm sorry for the confusion. As I'm sure you and the other knowledgeable participants will have no trouble working out these weighty matters amongst yourselves, and I actually don't care that much about this anyway, I'll just step aside and let you all do that. regards --mpa ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
Hi, On 31/05/14 10:19, Michael Raskin wrote: > Carousels with blurbs are often annoying. You start to read and it > switches. Obligatory link: http://shouldiuseacarousel.com/ >> - Shouldn't monitor.nixos.org and status.nixos.org also be linked? Yes, monitor should absolutely be linked from somewhere, such as in the Nixpkgs docs and from the Nixpkgs page. Status is really an internal thing. -- Eelco Dolstra | LogicBlox, Inc. | http://nixos.org/~eelco/ ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
Hi, interesting to see so many opinions on the new website. In stead of mentioning issues here in the mailing list, which is imho fine for general discussion, but hard to track specific issues, I would suggest people, who have (specific) issues/problems with the site, start making issues for specific problems/improvements at: https://github.com/NixOS/nixos-homepage/issues . Even better, make a PR with some enhancements. Cheers, Rob On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 1:18 PM, Sander van der Burg - EWI < s.vanderb...@tudelft.nl> wrote: > I think people should write more stuff. Then it will disappear from the > frontpage really quickly. > > From: nix-dev-boun...@lists.science.uu.nl [ > nix-dev-boun...@lists.science.uu.nl] on behalf of Vladimír Čunát [ > vcu...@gmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:45 PM > To: nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl > Subject: Re: [Nix-dev] New website > > On 05/31/2014 12:22 PM, Moritz Ulrich wrote: > > And another thing: Is it really a good idea to have april fools jokes on > > the front page? When NiJS was announced, I actually fell for it at > > first. I don't think showing this to newcomers helps. > > Yes, people will typically fail to notice the publication date :-) > > > ___ > nix-dev mailing list > nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl > http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev > -- Rob Vermaas [email] rob.verm...@gmail.com ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
I think people should write more stuff. Then it will disappear from the frontpage really quickly. From: nix-dev-boun...@lists.science.uu.nl [nix-dev-boun...@lists.science.uu.nl] on behalf of Vladimír Čunát [vcu...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, May 31, 2014 12:45 PM To: nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl Subject: Re: [Nix-dev] New website On 05/31/2014 12:22 PM, Moritz Ulrich wrote: > And another thing: Is it really a good idea to have april fools jokes on > the front page? When NiJS was announced, I actually fell for it at > first. I don't think showing this to newcomers helps. Yes, people will typically fail to notice the publication date :-) ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
On 05/31/2014 12:22 PM, Moritz Ulrich wrote: And another thing: Is it really a good idea to have april fools jokes on the front page? When NiJS was announced, I actually fell for it at first. I don't think showing this to newcomers helps. Yes, people will typically fail to notice the publication date :-) smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
And another thing: Is it really a good idea to have april fools jokes on the front page? When NiJS was announced, I actually fell for it at first. I don't think showing this to newcomers helps. -- Moritz Ulrich pgpckfwwrziLs.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
Vladimír Čunát writes: > I might be in minority, but the current layout does seem weird: > - The first half of what you see is focused on newcomers (those who > know nothing about the project). > - The second half contains various types of news. > So we have two halves with nontrivial content that are useful to > *different* sets of people. Newcomers will hardly get good idea from > recent news (as it contains mostly differential information), and the > introductory half will mostly be useless to anyone but newcomers :-) That's something I noticed too. When I open nixos.org on my screen, the 'What's NixOS' part of the page actually drowns in news. I'd prefer a much shorter news section pinned to the bottom of the page, which a noticeable whitespace to keep them separated. Right now, the news/introduction ratio is ~3/1, which is never good for a page which primary goal is to inform people about *what* NixOS is. Another thing is the giant header introducing NixOS: My brain automatically skips such big fonts, as I actually find them harder to read than "normal" sized text. It looks like it has to be this gigantic or else it would drown as well. > Personally, I would probably convert the homepage to a simply structured > collection of most useful links, naturally starting with a big fat one > like "Introduction to NixOS.org", so we would "separate" this specific > group and could provide them *more* information (the half-page is only > an advertisement, and can't give a basic idea about the project). Direct > link to each of those "projects" would be nice, as IMO they're used a lot. That's pretty much how it was on the old site. Imo, that was really useful and a super nice way to get an overview of each of the projects. And in a decent font size, too. > News: currently it's more than one screenful of information (for me), so > I would again separate it into nixos.org/news page. BTW, RSS/Atom are > very useful for such things, and I see none on the homepage or planet. > Some build status summary might also be on that page, like the > timestamps+revisions of the latest channel bumps. > > > Videos: I really prefer well-structured linked text (with images) to > videos. IMO a text of comparable value is much easier to produce. I > understand that videos are better at keeping attention of some people... > BTW we *do* have recordings of several introductory Nix(OS) talks, > notably the FOSDEM one. > https://nixos.org/wiki/Nix(OS)_in_the_media_and_presentations I don't think any video can ever replace an useful description. It can extend, or better explain some topics, but imo it's *much* easier to read a short pitch about something instead of watching a 20 minute video. *Especially* when it's about something as technical as NixOS. -- Moritz Ulrich pgpv9z9hLwU6h.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
Kirill Elagin writes: > On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Michael Raskin <7c6f4...@mail.ru> wrote: > >> Carousels with blurbs are often annoying. You start to read and it >> switches. >> > > Just hover it with your mouse and [if it is implemented properly] it won't > switch. > I've seen carousels that keep switching if you hover them two or three times > in my life. That's braindead. And without a mouse? Do I need to tap it every few seconds and hope that does not follow some link? > ___ > nix-dev mailing list > nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl > http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
>> Carousels with blurbs are often annoying. You start to read and it >> switches. >> > >Just hover it with your mouse and [if it is implemented properly] it won't >switch. >I've seen carousels that keep switching if you hover them two or three times >in my life. That's braindead. Don't know, I open a site (purely keyboard action) and start reading it while finding out where my mouse pointer is; so if reading already needs mouse pointer it's a loss. ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
On Sat, May 31, 2014 at 12:19 PM, Michael Raskin <7c6f4...@mail.ru> wrote: > Carousels with blurbs are often annoying. You start to read and it > switches. > Just hover it with your mouse and [if it is implemented properly] it won't switch. I've seen carousels that keep switching if you hover them two or three times in my life. That's braindead. ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
This is very hard, and it's certainly impossible to satisfy everyone, but still, if we try hard to be objective... On 05/31/2014 09:10 AM, Wout Mertens wrote: So concretely: * "Help" should be "Documentation" or "Docs", I tripped over the same thing Yes, the word "Help" is IMO rarely used in this sense. To me it associates to "Contribute / Help us" easily as well. * I miss the very visible introduction to each of the components [...] * I see no mention of Nixpkgs at all [...] * For project discovery, a 2-minute video is excellent. [...] o I suppose I could make one but I feel unqualified :) I might be in minority, but the current layout does seem weird: - The first half of what you see is focused on newcomers (those who know nothing about the project). - The second half contains various types of news. So we have two halves with nontrivial content that are useful to *different* sets of people. Newcomers will hardly get good idea from recent news (as it contains mostly differential information), and the introductory half will mostly be useless to anyone but newcomers :-) Personally, I would probably convert the homepage to a simply structured collection of most useful links, naturally starting with a big fat one like "Introduction to NixOS.org", so we would "separate" this specific group and could provide them *more* information (the half-page is only an advertisement, and can't give a basic idea about the project). Direct link to each of those "projects" would be nice, as IMO they're used a lot. News: currently it's more than one screenful of information (for me), so I would again separate it into nixos.org/news page. BTW, RSS/Atom are very useful for such things, and I see none on the homepage or planet. Some build status summary might also be on that page, like the timestamps+revisions of the latest channel bumps. Videos: I really prefer well-structured linked text (with images) to videos. IMO a text of comparable value is much easier to produce. I understand that videos are better at keeping attention of some people... BTW we *do* have recordings of several introductory Nix(OS) talks, notably the FOSDEM one. https://nixos.org/wiki/Nix(OS)_in_the_media_and_presentations DisNix: I *heard* it's largely orthogonal to NixOps and that it makes sense to use them together. Vlada smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
> - "Help" should be "Documentation" or "Docs", I tripped over the same > thing Actually, the design i too like GitHub where we have learned that the top bar is about _site platform_, not about the project in question. I don't know whether this is a problem for many others but it may be that people don't pay much attention to the top bar. > - I miss the very visible introduction to each of the components > - Nix begets Nixpkgs begets NixOS begets NixOps (so is DisNix dead?). Yes, the granularity of getting some use from each step without the rest was better visible before. > - The Projects pulldown could be converted into vertical tabs on the > index page > - A carousel could be used to highlight each: Logo, blurb, link to > the project page Carousels with blurbs are often annoying. You start to read and it switches. > - I see no mention of Nixpkgs at all, while I think that's an excellent > foot in the door. > - "Just install this thing without any dependencies, on any > distribution, and all your installation woes are solved!". > - I know you guys live in a NixOS world, but I'm still trying to > convince management of even using Nixpkgs on Ubuntu 12.04 Agreed. I would actually give many novices advice to install Nixpkgs first, so they don't have to know how NixOS specifies partition layouts etc., then install NixOS when they are comfortable using Nix. > - For project discovery, a 2-minute video is excellent. I've spent many > a 2-5 minute with colleagues watching a video about some project we were > discovering. > - I suppose I could make one but I feel unqualified :) Given that for Nix* even the screenshots can be plain text most of the time, I'd say that transcript is better than video almost always… > - The Twitter stream should be in a shorter box but below the blogs, > then commits, ordering news in order of most likely use to homepage > visitors. > - I'm reasoning that visitors want to learn about NixOS, and those > who know go to github or use the mailing list I agree that blog posts usually assume less context than Twitter messages and obviously most commit messages assume understanding the general structure of code. So for the newcomers it is reasonable to give them something they can understand immediately. > - Shouldn't monitor.nixos.org and status.nixos.org also be linked? How > about together with Hydra in a Status dropdown? Ho, there is status.nixos.org… Not sure if either of this should be on the front page. Although putting them under the Hydra link in a dropdown is probably a good idea. ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
Re: [Nix-dev] New website
So concretely: - "Help" should be "Documentation" or "Docs", I tripped over the same thing - I miss the very visible introduction to each of the components - Nix begets Nixpkgs begets NixOS begets NixOps (so is DisNix dead?). - The Projects pulldown could be converted into vertical tabs on the index page - A carousel could be used to highlight each: Logo, blurb, link to the project page - I see no mention of Nixpkgs at all, while I think that's an excellent foot in the door. - "Just install this thing without any dependencies, on any distribution, and all your installation woes are solved!". - I know you guys live in a NixOS world, but I'm still trying to convince management of even using Nixpkgs on Ubuntu 12.04 - For project discovery, a 2-minute video is excellent. I've spent many a 2-5 minute with colleagues watching a video about some project we were discovering. - I suppose I could make one but I feel unqualified :) - The Twitter stream should be in a shorter box but below the blogs, then commits, ordering news in order of most likely use to homepage visitors. - I'm reasoning that visitors want to learn about NixOS, and those who know go to github or use the mailing list - Shouldn't monitor.nixos.org and status.nixos.org also be linked? How about together with Hydra in a Status dropdown? (Dis|A)greements? Wout. On Fri, May 30, 2014 at 10:53 PM, Jay Sulzberger wrote: > > > > On Fri, 30 May 2014, M. P. Ashton wrote: > > > I don't mind the new website at all. I think it looks nice, and it does > > seem more professional than the old one. > > > > It also has a more promotional bent, which may or may not fit the > > project's goals -- I don't know if world domination is an aim for the > > project right now, but the new website seems to satisfy that goal much > > better than the old one. > > > > I don't care for websites sending me to external servers, mostly because > > the load time tends to become much longer, and occasionally the external > > servers don't cooperate. But for me it's not such a big deal. I'm pretty > > sure Google and NSA and Facebook know more about me than I do, even if I > > studiously use DuckDuckGo (which is probably a trigger word). > > I think the website should not, by design, send tracking > information to any third party. > > We may be being tracked with exquisite care and by means of > delightfully subtle statistics, but formal collaboration is > different from acquiescence. We may not actively fight, on this > front, the battle against the Panopticon Machine of the > Englobulators, but neither need we give them for free what is > ours, and not theirs, by right. > > oo--JS. > > > > > > Someone said that they couldn't find the manual -- I found it very > > quickly under "HELP". I usually look for "Documentation" first, but > > "Help" seemed a reasonable second guess. > > > > So, thanks for working on this -- I appreciate it, FWIW. > > > > --mpa > ___ > nix-dev mailing list > nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl > http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev > ___ nix-dev mailing list nix-dev@lists.science.uu.nl http://lists.science.uu.nl/mailman/listinfo/nix-dev
