Re: [Nix-dev] Sidestepping the community builds trust issue?

2015-12-25 Thread Michael Raskin
>That would be great if we had deterministic build outputs, but we currently >have no easy way of determining whether a binary cache is corrupt or >whether a build was nondeterministic. Well, given five binary caches 4:1 and 2:2:1 hash distributions would give some information. And in some

Re: [Nix-dev] Sidestepping the community builds trust issue?

2015-12-25 Thread Michael Raskin
>A web-of-trust type approach is what I have previously heard discussed. In >the context of such an approach, I have three things to say in support of >my proposal. >3. In those first two points, I claim some advantage relative to a >web-of-trust style approach. However, both ideas are fully

Re: [Nix-dev] Sidestepping the community builds trust issue?

2015-12-25 Thread Jonn Mostovoy
As Nicolas pointed out after we have presented our plan of attacking this problem (and as it was mentioned by Dan here), builds are only locally-reproducible. There is no guarantee that a build built by my machine and your machine will yield the same hash. It got me thinking - 1. Did anybody

Re: [Nix-dev] Sidestepping the community builds trust issue?

2015-12-25 Thread Shea Levy
I have no opinion on this feature specifically, but re #3: avoiding a feature in order to keep things in a poor enough state so that users care about the issues you think they should care about is highly patronizing and a terrible way for developers to relate to users. It is incidentally

Re: [Nix-dev] Sidestepping the community builds trust issue?

2015-12-25 Thread Tim Barbour
I agree there is no conflict between your proposal and my suggestion. The reason I mentioned it is that I do not like the idea of relying on a single trusted party for security (to whic your proposal makes no difference, because the trusted party will control all build machines). If someone (use