[jira] [Comment Edited] (OFBIZ-11296) Use 'depends-on' everywhere
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-11296?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17008054#comment-17008054 ] Jacques Le Roux edited comment on OFBIZ-11296 at 2/16/20 10:37 AM: --- [~mthl], please consider that people have limited time and that they have to put priorities on how they spent it. Putting pressure on (non bugfixing) issues does not help good collaborations. Please also refrain to put judgements in your statements like "why they consider to mess with..." or else. Simply trust people who are around for a long time and have deep, real life project experience with OFBiz for a long time (for me it's coming to about 18 years now). This project is not only about tech, it has a user base with serious business running on base of OFBiz. This has always to be considered as serious as good technical solutions should be considered. So we cannot simply change things because single contributors like other technical solutions better. We have to remain downwards compatible and manage deprecation of features carefully. Until now, there was not a single thumbs up from experienced contributors for this change, but objections from others. This alone should make you think about your approach. Me fighting for the right approach also does not necessarily mean that I have (current) personal or customer interests in mind. The user base is much bigger than "my" user base. If you read carefully what I previously wrote, there are several uses for the applications component-load.xml: * deactivation of unused component(s) by commenting out the load-component entry (why load marketing resources if you don't use the component at the moment) * addition of components (yes, I've seen projects where this was not done through the hot-deploy mechanism) * ordering these components in the right load order While you can argument that these might be "wrong" approaches, they are technically valid and used in customer projects. Therefore we cannot simply switch the mechanisms without a proper deprecation period. For the plugins, all the above use cases are common in our projects. We also use a multi-level configuration mechanism (standard default - custom standard default - project default and targeted systems) where we are able to do fine-grained configurations and generate the resulting component-load.xml at build time. My proposal would be to actively ask other contributors with significant project experience for their input before re-commiting anything. If there is a demand for your solution, I would also propose to make the solution compatible with the component-load mechanism and leave the old component-load.xml in place, together with a deprecation announcement and proper documentation on how to migrate. This would introduce the new depends-on in the next release but does not change anything for existing users if they want to stick with the component-load mechanism. For the plugins, I object to introduce the mechanism at all for the above stated reasons. I hope this explains my point of view clear enough, please ask if it does not. was (Author: mbrohl): [~mthl], please consider that people have limited time and that they have to put priorities on how they spent it. Putting pressure on (non bugfixing) issues does not help good collaborations. Please also refrain to put judgements in your statements like "why they consider to mess with..." or else. Simply trust people who are around for a long time and have deep, real life project experience with OFBiz for a long time (for me it's coming to about 18 years now). This project is not only about tech, it has a user base with serious business running on base of OFBiz. This has always to be considered as serious as good technical solutions should be considered. So we cannot simply change things because single contributors like other technical solutions better. We have to remain downwards compatible and manage deprecation of features carefully. Until now, there was not a single thumbs up from experienced contributors for this change, but objections from others. This alone should make you think about your approach. Me fighting for the right approach also does not necessarily mean that I have (current) personal or customer interests in mind. The user base is much bigger than "my" user base. If you read carefully what I previously wrote, there are several uses for the applications component-load.xml: * deactivation of unused component(s) by commenting out the load-component entry (why load marketing resources if you don't use the component at the moment) * addition of components (yes, I've seen projects where this was not done through the hot-deploy mechanism) * ordering these components in the right load order While you can argument that these might be "wrong" approaches, they are technically valid and
[jira] [Comment Edited] (OFBIZ-11296) Use 'depends-on' everywhere
[ https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-11296?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17008054#comment-17008054 ] Michael Brohl edited comment on OFBIZ-11296 at 1/5/20 9:17 AM: --- [~mthl], please consider that people have limited time and that they have to put priorities on how they spent it. Putting pressure on (non bugfixing) issues does not help good collaborations. Please also refrain to put judgements in your statements like "why they consider to mess with..." or else. Simply trust people who are around for a long time and have deep, real life project experience with OFBiz for a long time (for me it's coming to about 18 years now). This project is not only about tech, it has a user base with serious business running on base of OFBiz. This has always to be considered as serious as good technical solutions should be considered. So we cannot simply change things because single contributors like other technical solutions better. We have to remain downwards compatible and manage deprecation of features carefully. Until now, there was not a single thumbs up from experienced contributors for this change, but objections from others. This alone should make you think about your approach. Me fighting for the right approach also does not necessarily mean that I have (current) personal or customer interests in mind. The user base is much bigger than "my" user base. If you read carefully what I previously wrote, there are several uses for the applications component-load.xml: * deactivation of unused component(s) by commenting out the load-component entry (why load marketing resources if you don't use the component at the moment) * addition of components (yes, I've seen projects where this was not done through the hot-deploy mechanism) * ordering these components in the right load order While you can argument that these might be "wrong" approaches, they are technically valid and used in customer projects. Therefore we cannot simply switch the mechanisms without a proper deprecation period. For the plugins, all the above use cases are common in our projects. We also use a multi-level configuration mechanism (standard default - custom standard default - project default and targeted systems) where we are able to do fine-grained configurations and generate the resulting component-load.xml at build time. My proposal would be to actively ask other contributors with significant project experience for their input before re-commiting anything. If there is a demand for your solution, I would also propose to make the solution compatible with the component-load mechanism and leave the old component-load.xml in place, together with a deprecation announcement and proper documentation on how to migrate. This would introduce the new depends-on in the next release but does not change anything for existing users if they want to stick with the component-load mechanism. For the plugins, I object to introduce the mechanism at all for the above stated reasons. I hope this explains my point of view clear enough, please ask if it does not. was (Author: mbrohl): [~mthl], please consider that people have limited time and that they have to put priorities on how they spent it. Putting pressure on (non bugfixing) issues does not help good collaborations. Please also refrain to put judgements in your statements like "why they consider to mess with..." or else. Simply trust people who are around for a long time and have deep, real life project experience with OFBiz for a long time (for me it's coming to about 18 years now). This project is not only about tech, it has a user base with serious business running on base of OFBiz. This has always to be considered as serious as good technical solutions should be considered. So we cannot simply change things because single contributors like other technical solutions better. We have to remain downwards compatible and manage deprecation of features carefully. Until now, there was not a single thumbs up from experienced contributors for this change, but objections from others. This alone should make you think about your approach. Me fighting for the right approach also does not necessarily mean that I have (current) personal or customer interests in mind. The user base is much bigger than "my" user base. If you read carefully what I previously wrote, there are several uses for the applications component-load.xml: * deactivation of unused component(s) by commenting out the load-component entry (why load marketing resources if you don't use the component at the moment) * addition of components (yes, I've seen projects where this was not done through the hot-deploy mechanism) * ordering these components in the right load order While you can argument that these might be "wrong" approaches, they are technically valid and
[jira] [Comment Edited] (OFBIZ-11296) Use 'depends-on' everywhere
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https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-11296?page=com.atlassian.jira.plugin.system.issuetabpanels:comment-tabpanel=17007573#comment-17007573
]
Mathieu Lirzin edited comment on OFBIZ-11296 at 1/3/20 3:38 PM:
Hello I have included
[^OFBIZ-11296_ignore-depends-on-when-a-component-load.xml-is-prese.patch] which
fixes the regression where people were not able to add a custom
{{component-load.xml}} files in a directory without getting "depends-on"
attributes ignored. I will commit that fix in 3 days if nobody objects.
Regarding
[^OFBIZ-11296_0001-Improved-Use-depends-on-attribute-instead-of-compone.patch]
which replaces usages of {{component-load.xml}} files in framework/applications
directories with {{depends-on}} declarations and have been reverted because of
the "regression" described above, if [~mbrohl] (or others) does not provides a
convincing explanation (which has been asked multiple times) why they consider
the ability to mess with framework/applications {{component-load.xml}} a
feature and not an implementation detail, I will recommit it in 3 days too.
was (Author: mthl):
Hello I have included
[^OFBIZ-11296_ignore-depends-on-when-a-component-load.xml-is-prese.patch] which
fixes the regression where people we not able to add a custom
{{component-load.xml}} files in a directory without getting "depends-on"
attributes ignored. I will commit that fix in 3 days if nobody objects.
Regarding
[^OFBIZ-11296_0001-Improved-Use-depends-on-attribute-instead-of-compone.patch]
which replaces usages of {{component-load.xml}} files in framework/applications
directories with {{depends-on}} declarations and have been reverted because of
the "regression" described above, if [~mbrohl] (or others) does not provides a
convincing explanation (which has been asked multiple times) why they consider
to ability to mess with framework/applications {{component-load.xml}} a feature
and not an implementation detail, I will recommit it in 3 days too.
> Use 'depends-on' everywhere
> ---
>
> Key: OFBIZ-11296
> URL: https://issues.apache.org/jira/browse/OFBIZ-11296
> Project: OFBiz
> Issue Type: Improvement
> Components: framework
>Affects Versions: Trunk
>Reporter: Mathieu Lirzin
>Assignee: Mathieu Lirzin
>Priority: Minor
> Fix For: Upcoming Branch
>
> Attachments:
> OFBIZ-11296_0001-Improved-Use-depends-on-attribute-instead-of-compone.patch,
> OFBIZ-11296_ignore-depends-on-when-a-component-load.xml-is-prese.patch
>
>
> We currently have two ways to define component loading order. Either
> by using ‘depends-on’ attribute in “component-config.xml” or by adding
> a “component-load.xml” file at the root of a component directory.
> “depends-on” is more flexible because it handles partial ordering when
> “component-load.xml” defines a total order which is not necessarily
> meaningful, so it is better to rely only “depends-on”.
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