[NSP] Re: Confused!
I believe it's an airport, quite close to Paris. Francis On 9 Mar 2009, at 22:36, richard.hea...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Hi All, Do we mean oral/orally or aural/aurally ... or perhaps both? Richard Fancy a job? - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/jobs/ __ To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: re written music
With regard to the Tom Anderson quote, Never try to learn a tune you don't already know, as posted by Christopher Birch, Just for the record, I was referring to a previous posting by Colin Ross, in which he wrote: It has already attracted criticism from one of our pipers who is 'deeply disappointed' that the CD is not with the book as originally planned and who thinks that it will do real damage to what is essentially an oral tradition. He quotes the late Tom Anderson of Shetland who 'rightly' said 'Never try to learn a tune you don't already know'. c To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [NSP]Re: First 30 tunes
Hi Mike and List As someone who was trying to join in on accordion at Halsway during the Sunday evening playaround. I suppose I had a slight advantage over those who had never heard the tunes before, but it was a new experience to try and play them all in the key of F which has slightly different fingering patterns to G due to the different use of the thumb! For some it was possibly a new experience to play in the key of F, full stop. May be there is a market hear for unemployed accordionists who can play in F? Alan Corkett -Original Message- From: Mike and Enid Walton [mailto:mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk] Sent: 07 March 2009 06:53 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear them as midis, transpose them etc. It might, of course, reduce the sales of NPS books. I thought about this when we were playing tunes on F chanters at Halsway with other musicians. The music books proferred by pipers were of course no good to the other musicians unless they were really expert at transposing on the hoof. Mike Walton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Confused!
Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:03:06 - On 9 Mar 2009, richard.hea...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Do we mean oral/orally or aural/aurally ... or perhaps both? If it's a song, orally / aurally could be equally valid. A tune is learnt aurally. Since we appear to be having a light hearted moment I could speculate on how to transfer a tune orally..but I think perhaps it would be better not to. grin Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Confused!
Mouth music? -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of julia@nspipes.co.uk Sent: 10 March 2009 10:04 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Confused! Date: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 10:03:06 - On 9 Mar 2009, richard.hea...@tiscali.co.uk wrote: Do we mean oral/orally or aural/aurally ... or perhaps both? If it's a song, orally / aurally could be equally valid. A tune is learnt aurally. Since we appear to be having a light hearted moment I could speculate on how to transfer a tune orally..but I think perhaps it would be better not to. grin Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Confused!
How's about the following simple working definitions: Oral tradition has to do with information transfer using spoken words. Aural tradition has to do with learning to play music by hearing it being played by someone else. In either case, nothing is learned or transfered through written media. Perhaps if the spoken information is transfered by singing (or poetic verse) then oral and aural traditions are combined. Sam To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes
I'm glad you wrote this. I suggested something similar but my post never appeared (that happens quite often and yes, I did send it to the list, not the person who posted it). As I said there, I've been trying to do something similar with a book of hurdy gurdy tunes but some other player beat me to it by playing all the tunes on the piano and making it available as an mp3. The cries of ah, that's how that bit goes continue to echo. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike and Enid Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:53 AM Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear them as midis, transpose them etc. It might, of course, reduce the sales of NPS books. I thought about this when we were playing tunes on F chanters at Halsway with other musicians. The music books proferred by pipers were of course no good to the other musicians unless they were really expert at transposing on the hoof. Mike Walton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
I take the point. I should have pointed out that the book I referred to was a collection of traditional music and was also out of print. The tunes were freely available and had just been collated into one place so no original works were involved. I was suggesting, in this case, the abc/midi version should be included in the book or as an authorised download by those who have purchased it. A code to download could be included and making a secure/obscure site wouldn't be that difficult. For the odd tune, there are plenty of programs available to copy the dots into to see what it sounds like and plenty of sources where they have already been converted anyway. I wasn't suggesting doing any unauthorised copying of existing and available books. Just really a suggestion to the complaints about no CD of existing and well known tunes and, of course, aimed at beginners or those who have difficulty in reading the dots - even after years of trying. My problem with learning off music CDs is that they are invariably made by excellent, professional musicians and also reflect their own style. An abc or midi is just the bare bones which is of (in my opinion) more use to someone who is still learning. Speaking for myself and listening to some very simple, easy tunes (so it was said) played by members of this list, I would have happily burnt my chanter and given up years ago. However, playing the midi version gives some hope that you are, actually, playing a tune! Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: 'colin' cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 4:41 PM Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes An abc pipers' tunebook should ideally - * Not be a copy of a printed source. It might affect its sales. Let alone copyright questions. * So should be mostly traditional unpublished material. * It could contain new tunes too, if submitted by the composer - copyright again. * It should be communally authored - wait for a single author and it will take a long time, and will mirror his taste; be it excellent or otherwise, someone will disagree! It is a view of the tradition that we are after, not just Joe Bloggs' bit of it. * Abc's could be submitted to the nsp mailing list, and someone web-literate could put it online. * So we need a willing able volunteer. * Here the plan falls to the ground. John -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of colin Sent: 10 March 2009 16:23 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes I'm glad you wrote this. I suggested something similar but my post never appeared (that happens quite often and yes, I did send it to the list, not the person who posted it). As I said there, I've been trying to do something similar with a book of hurdy gurdy tunes but some other player beat me to it by playing all the tunes on the piano and making it available as an mp3. The cries of ah, that's how that bit goes continue to echo. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike and Enid Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:53 AM Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear them as midis, transpose them etc. It might, of course, reduce the sales of NPS books. I thought about this when we were playing tunes on F chanters at Halsway with other musicians. The music books proferred by pipers were of course no good to the other musicians unless they were really expert at transposing on the hoof. Mike Walton -- To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Measureing Tips
Dear Malcom, I wish you could ask pipemakers about your ideas before putting it on the List. The idea of measuring from the shoulder was the original way of marking the hole centres and I used it in my class for some time before discovering that pupils' ideas of what was 5/8 varied from an 1/8 either way. This is the length of the tenon that fits into the chanter stock. The result was that when it came to tuning the chanter there was a wide variation in the pitch of the notes from top to bottom. I then decided to measure from the top of the chanter which was much more reliable. The variation causing trouble after that was to do with the exact taper and length of the reed seating tool to get the reed seating the same for subsequent chanters and of course getting a standard reed made. I am not sure what you are referring to in connection with the bore. This should not be reamed or drilled out but by all means make a bore cleaner/polisher from a lenght of 1/8 welding rod with thread wrapped around the end for about a couple of inches so that it fits the bore nicely and can be used to seal and polish the bore lining. As Technical Advisor to the NPS I am not intending to discourage folk from offering constructive tips but check these out first from someone with more experience. Cheers, Colin R -Original Message- From: malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 17:15 Subject: [NSP] Measureing Tips Dear Pipers; thank you to those already responding to my request for tone hole measurements especially pipe makers whom so very kindly have taken this survey in the spirit of good faith that it is meant to be. I am acutely aware that some of us don't want to upset a good playing chanter by messing about with a reed that has taken years to set up and play as you want it to so here is a compromise measureing method that can be used as long as it is made idiod proof (especially to me) where you have measured it from. Take measurements from the shoulder where it meets the chanter stock ferrule. Also some may be having trouble in measureing the bore of the chanter. If you have no drill bits of the size to produce a snug fit at around 11/64 (please don't force anything into the bore) A rolled up piece of writing paper may be inserted into the bottom of the chanter after first removing the wad of cotton wool and the diameter can then be measured of the writing paper as close to the woodwork as possible before it starts to flare out. Make sure to replace the cotton wool or cotton bud which ever has been taken out. Please excuse the intrusion onto your PC once more and now I'll bog off Thank you Malcolm. -- This message was sent on behalf of malcolm.sargea...@ntlworld.com at openSubscriber.com http://www.opensubscriber.com/messages/nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu/topic.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html AOL Email goes Mobile! You can now read your AOL Emails whilst on the move. Sign up for a free AOL Email account with unlimited storage today.
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
On 10 Mar 2009, rosspi...@aol.com wrote: I had no experience of using ABC copies of the tunes to generate audio copies but it seems to be a relatively straightforward way of getting the printed tunes out there to be heard. we have most of the other tunes that are in our publications in ABC form it could be applied to all those tunes that beginners have difficulty in lifting off the page. This is one of the features being discussed / proposed by our new NPS website developer. The site is based on Wiki software, and an abc player is one of the options (I think - I haven't quite got my head round it all yet). However the site will have a members' only area, passworded, and I suspect such an option will reside there. the NPS is only interested in producing a CD to accompany the '30 tunes' book The current state of play is that four of the contributors have so far supplied tunes in a suitable format. The originator of the project has just (today) received his book copies and is now keen to pursue the CD contributors. We had several other promises before Christmas, but nothing was forthcoming. We have transatlantic uploading sorted, and a mastering volunteer (in the USA). Instructions for recording the tunes have been issued to folk wanting to do it themselves. Once the master is available, it is a simple organisational matter to get it copied, with a simple cover. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Measureing Tips
Hi Malcolm, Welcome to the wonderful world of pipemaking. The question of the reference point for tone holes is an old argument. Colin Ross finds it convenient to measure from the top of the chanter. Makers who hold the chanter in a chuck prefer to measure from the shoulder. The two are entirely equivalent scientifically speaking. The length of the chanter tenon only becomes really critical if a tapered reed seating (as recommended by Colin) is used. As Malcolm will be including historical chanters with parallel reed seatings, which were presumably laid out in the traditional fashion, measuring from the shoulder would seem quite appropriate. I think that Malcolm's idea for measuring an inside diameter with an outside measuring device is quite novel and he should be congratulated on the simplicity of his idea. I suspect that analysis of the results will not be straightforward. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
Perhaps, you could make the recordings yourself, Colin. That way the bench would be quite clearly marked. It would seem likely that there could be all sorts of interpretations of a tune, or bad playing technique, if the sound source were another instrument. Last night I played tunes with a friend, an ear player who grew up in Morpeth, was active in the folk scene in Northumberland for many years before moving here. He plays stringed instruments, so the popping pipe sound goes nicely with the slurry string sound. He doesn't play any of the tunes note for note the way they appear in the books, because he picked them up by ear, having heard many from the time he was a lad. If I said, look, you're not playing that tune correctly, it would be like the anthropologist telling the tribesman in New Guinea he's hunting monkey incorrectly. One tune in particular, The Hesleyside Reel, is very difficult for me to play at his tempo without cutting out some of the notes. Was it written for the pipes? It's a lovely tune, but my right hand's ligature doesn't like it very much unless I play it at a rambling pace. Now, I realize, if I had Chris Ormston's technique I could do it properly, but I never will (I'm not alone, am I?). If the choice is mucking up the tune or adapting it to fit my technical abilities, what's a guy to do? John rosspi...@aol.com 03/10/2009 10:40 AM To j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk cc nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes Dear John, When I was saying that I thought the tunes in the 'First 30 Tunes' might be better played on some other instrument than the small pipes to give an idea of how the tune went it was to avoid the copying of pehaps bad playing technique from pipers who had contributed tracks for the CD. I had no experience of using ABC copies of the tunes to generate audio copies but it seems to be a relatively straightforward way of getting the printed tunes out there to be heard. At the moment the NPS is only interested in producing a CD to accompany the '30 tunes' book but as we have most of the other tunes that are in our publications in ABC form it could be applied to all those tunes that beginners have difficulty in lifting off the page. As you say the main problem is in finding someone to do the job. Colin R -Original Message- From: Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk To: 'colin' cwh...@santa-fe.freeserve.co.uk; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Tue, 10 Mar 2009 16:41 Subject: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes An abc pipers' tunebook should ideally - * Not be a copy of a printed source. It might affect its sales. Let alone copyright questions. * So should be mostly traditional unpublished material. * It could contain new tunes too, if submitted by the composer - copyright again. * It should be communally authored - wait for a single author and it will take a long time, and will mirror his taste; be it excellent or otherwise, someone will disagree! It is a view of the tradition that we are after, not just Joe Bloggs' bit of it. * Abc's could be submitted to the nsp mailing list, and someone web-literate could put it online. * So we need a willing able volunteer. * Here the plan falls to the ground. John -Original Message- From: nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu [[1]mailto:nsp-request+j.gibbons=ic.ac...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of colin Sent: 10 March 2009 16:23 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes I'm glad you wrote this. I suggested something similar but my post never appeared (that happens quite often and yes, I did send it to the list, not the person who posted it). As I said there, I've been trying to do something similar with a book of hurdy gurdy tunes but some other player beat me to it by playing all the tunes on the piano and making it available as an mp3. The cries of ah, that's how that bit goes continue to echo. Colin Hill - Original Message - From: Mike and Enid Walton mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Saturday, March 07, 2009 6:53 AM Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear
[NSP] Music to learn from
Hi All, If you want a good idea of how tunes might be played try Pauline Cato's Northumbrian Choice. Book and 2 CDs available at http://www.mally.com/details.asp?id=52 and other outlets. The main disadvantage is that it is recorded on concert G pipes. However, if one also obtains a copy of the 'Amazing Slow Downer' at $49.95 from http://www.ronimusic.com/ you can adjust the pitch and speed of the recording to match your pipes and confidence level respectively. I am very wary of using 'flat' midi versions of a tune as teaching aids as they miss out the essential 'lilt' of the rhthym which is so important. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
On 10 Mar 2009, john_da...@hmco.com wrote: One tune in particular, The Hesleyside Reel, ... Was it written for the pipes? Yes, it was. Question is, which ones. T J Elliott was apparently a fan of GVB Charlton family and his tunes were written at the time the Hesleyside family were very active in piping (1920s/30s - pre-36 anyway). Hesleyside Reel, Gunnerton Fell Cuddy Bellingham Fair are also playable on Border pipes (or whatever you want to call them), which were GVB Charlton's primary interest: The Chipchase Reel is not. Hope this helps Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
: rosspi...@aol.com said as we have most of the other tunes that are in our publications in ABC form it could be applied to all those tunes that beginners have difficulty in lifting off the page. As you say the main problem is in finding someone to do the job. Colin R If we do actually have tunes in NPS publications in abc format there shouldn't be a lot of work in compiling them into an abc file for each book and posting them on a web-site. The work of converting them into abc is the biggest part. Presumably the Society would have to agree that was the way it wanted to go - is the volume of book sales, or the dissemination* of the information most important ? The copyright tunes could be omitted until or unless we got permission. I assume there are no copyright issues on the traditional material. If we do have the majority of the tunes in abc, I'd be willing to give a try to one book. If I found it too much, I could always do as much as I'm able. I could put the file in my web-space and someone with the knowledge could link from the nps site (new or old). Mike Walton * Not spell-checked, so please no lengthy correspondence on my spelling ability. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: First 30 tunes
If an online digital tunebook is planned, then abc is the most flexible format to do it in. I'd be happy to abcify (not spell-checked) some tunes, but couldn't put them on the website. John -Original Message- From: Mike and Enid Walton [mailto:mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk] Sent: 10 March 2009 23:06 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Gibbons, John; rosspi...@aol.com Subject: Re: [NSP] Re: First 30 tunes : rosspi...@aol.com said as we have most of the other tunes that are in our publications in ABC form it could be applied to all those tunes that beginners have difficulty in lifting off the page. As you say the main problem is in finding someone to do the job. Colin R If we do actually have tunes in NPS publications in abc format there shouldn't be a lot of work in compiling them into an abc file for each book and posting them on a web-site. The work of converting them into abc is the biggest part. Presumably the Society would have to agree that was the way it wanted to go - is the volume of book sales, or the dissemination* of the information most important ? The copyright tunes could be omitted until or unless we got permission. I assume there are no copyright issues on the traditional material. If we do have the majority of the tunes in abc, I'd be willing to give a try to one book. If I found it too much, I could always do as much as I'm able. I could put the file in my web-space and someone with the knowledge could link from the nps site (new or old). Mike Walton * Not spell-checked, so please no lengthy correspondence on my spelling ability. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
