[NSP] Re: F.a.o. Francis others
Anthony, I don't want to add to the rancour - but is it a 'fundamentally' oral tradition? Of course music is dead unless played and heard, but local people, starting with Henry Atkinson 300+ years ago and continuing till the present, have been writing down versions of Northumbrian tunes. The big variation sets largely stable over time, are surely a partially-literate form. They would sound much more like free improvisation if they were passed on aurally/orally. One feature distinguishing Northumbrian music from other English traditions, is that for many of the tunes we know who composed them. It is seen as important to know that Thomas Todd wrote the Barrington, and that he was a piper, and that it's a piper's display piece. Nobody knows or cares who wrote the Dorset Four Hand Reel, or what it was to be played on. All the best John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: 26 May 2009 23:10 To: Francis Wood Cc: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: F.a.o. Francis others Hello Francis I think, bonny lad, you need to see a bit of Armstrong and Miller! And here's me thinking I was being cool and modern. I have to say, however, I did think there was a tinge of poisoning the wells in some of your postings. As for members of the committee - I don't doubt their skills of administration or their integrity. What seems to be in doubt is their knowledge of the feelings of the full spectrum of Society members and their naivety in voting to exclude members from any say in this matter in the full knowledge that the members will be called upon to ratify their decision. It seems obvious to me that if the ratification process has to take place, a vote for steps to exclude those members is questionable. I'm asking the questions and so far have only received partial answers. I am well aware of Colin's abrasive nature and have disagreed with him over details of the repertoire and other issues, but he is a rare beast in that he understands that we are dealing with a fundamentally oral tradition here. A tradition that needs to be learnt through 90% listening and 10% playing. If the dots are used they need to be informed by true insight into the nuances displayed within the spectrum of traditional players. It seems that this approach is not fully appreciated by all in authority in our Society and that worries quite a few of us. As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [NSP] F.a.o. Francis others To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 7:54 PM On 26 May 2009, at 16:53, Anthony Robb wrote: Mmmma| rather harsh Francis. Hello Anthony, I'm not sure I've really tried 'harsh' . . . 'Robust' might do quite well. I'd add 'fair'. We'll probably not agree on that one. Francis P. S. I'll leave it to anyone else to respond point by point to Anthony's mail if they have a mind to do so. I'd advise adherence to known facts, awareness that the issue is not only painful but complex, some regard for the integrity of those people who have already posted thoughtfully and carefully on this subject and above all, due consideration for the welfare of the person this is really all about. May I also reiterate my confidence in the NPS Committee and their decision. I base this on my knowledge of the people serving on the Committee and my admiration of their integrity and administrative abilities. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: smallpipes
Light relief. Looks like a Reid set? And Jack Armstrong must have taught him
something- he's got only one finger off!
I remember articles years ago in the society Magazine about Jack Armstrong's
visit to Hollywood, including speculation about Marylin Monroe and the
pipes..
As I recall some filming had taken place but never reached the screen.
Bill
-Original Message-
From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf
Of Ian Lawther
Sent: 27 May 2009 03:26
To: Adrian
Cc: nsp
Subject: [NSP] Re: smallpipes
Adrian wrote:
What are the Northumberland bagpipes;what are they?
They are something extremely raremust be true - it says so here
http://pro.corbis.com/search/Enlargement.aspx?CID=isgmediauid={8A307924-903
A-4ECE-ABF4-5C68EBAD5E6E}
Ian
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http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Pipes programme
On 26 May 2009, Francis W. wrote: Whilst sorting out some cassettes, I came across this BBC programme about NSP, broadcast about 20 years ago, I think. If it's the one I think it is (haven't had a chance to listen) it was made in the society's Jubilee Year - 1988. There are several cassette copies of it in the society archives. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: smallpipes
There is no doubt that KT can play as accurately as anyone, when/if she chooses to. But as she has got more 'popular' the style has got more open - lots of choytes, still against an otherwise closed background. She's obviously trying to add contrast. Too many choytes for my taste, though. The closed end chanter may be more than a century older than Peacock. Remember the thread about the Talbot MS? It was keys that came in in his time. John -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu Sent: 27 May 2009 11:55 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: smallpipes Dear all, Very interesting, and thanks for the link. A choyte at 00.02 and again at 00.09, a slurred, or near as dammit, low f# grace note at 00.07 (and similar things near the beginning of the Keel Row - e.g. the very first two notes and the F# to G at 01:37). JA's accompaniment to BI is downright bizarre but I rather like it. some obvious open fingering? Or am I more cloth-eared than I thought? and what tuning system is he using? All very traditional - honest! ;-) Shame about BI's vocals. Some nice spiky crisp playing from KT (with the odd tasteful choyte to liven things up, not to mention the impeccable intonation - she's the most in-tune piper I've ever heard, and is excellently matched in both this respect and stylistically by Andy May on duets on her Back to the Hills album). Richard Butler being (to my cloth ears) rather naughtier (in Rothbury Hills) than KT has ever been guilty of where lazy gracing is concerned. I still like the noise he makes tho and it's a nice flashy BC's Fancy (idem on KT's latest album). What is the tradition? It depends which one. A few hundred years back the tradition would been have what prevented us from developing closed-end chanters and keys like that upstart Peacock ;-) (running for cover!!!) chirs To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Aural tradition
Anthony Robb wrote: Many musicians kept books of dots to help them remember tunes. On reading this my thoughts went straight to an incident when I was a teenager in a pipe band. The Pipe Major, probably around 60 then, was teaching a group of us youngsters a tune. One of my fellow teens started to contradict what he was playing pointing out that the note values on the page didn't conform. THAT is just an aide memoire, came the reply, THIS is how it goes!. Ian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: F.a.o. Francis others
I sincerely hope this is not meant to have the xenophobic overtones that can be read between the lines --- there are many avid fans of NSP who have no chance of getting to listen to the present interpretation of the tradition -- they only have cd ,mp3, etc surely this is not tradition. Jack Armstrong appeared to have tuned out and away from the tradition, and revealed a surprisingly modish way of playing, but unfortuneatly, unless the dead pipers can supply us with more of this it is lost to the tradition --- the dots allow the tradition to be recovered when insular players die off without training a disciple - flame on Dave Singleton Anthony Robb wrote: Hello Francis I am well aware of Colin's abrasive nature and have disagreed with him over details of the repertoire and other issues, but he is a rare beast in that he understands that we are dealing with a fundamentally oral tradition here. A tradition that needs to be learnt through 90% listening and 10% playing. If the dots are used they need to be informed by true insight into the nuances displayed within the spectrum of traditional players. It seems that this approach is not fully appreciated by all in authority in our Society and that worries quite a few of us. As aye Anthony --- On Tue, 26/5/09, Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com wrote: From: Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com Subject: Re: [NSP] F.a.o. Francis others To: Anthony Robb anth...@robbpipes.com Cc: Dartmouth NPS nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Date: Tuesday, 26 May, 2009, 7:54 PM On 26 May 2009, at 16:53, Anthony Robb wrote: Mmmma| rather harsh Francis. Hello Anthony, I'm not sure I've really tried 'harsh' . . . 'Robust' might do quite well. I'd add 'fair'. We'll probably not agree on that one. Francis P. S. I'll leave it to anyone else to respond point by point to Anthony's mail if they have a mind to do so. I'd advise adherence to known facts, awareness that the issue is not only painful but complex, some regard for the integrity of those people who have already posted thoughtfully and carefully on this subject and above all, due consideration for the welfare of the person this is really all about. May I also reiterate my confidence in the NPS Committee and their decision. I base this on my knowledge of the people serving on the Committee and my admiration of their integrity and administrative abilities. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.42/2137 - Release Date: 05/27/09 07:50:00
[NSP] Re: Style/dots
Started from? 1862? -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Dave S Sent: 27 May 2009 21:23 To: Anthony Robb; nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] Re: Style/dots Hi Anthony, let me quote a passage showing that perhaps todays tradition started from the dots and yes I agree Keep your ears open ciao Dave A LETTER TO HIS GRACE THE DUKE OF NORTHUMBERLAND ON THE ANCIENT NORTHUMBRIAN MUSIC, ITS COLLECTION AND PRESERVATION. BY THOMAS DOUBLEDAY. *' Nor rough nor barren are the windings ways Of hoar Antiquity, but strewn with flow'rs. Thomas Warton. LONDON : NEWCASTLE-ON-TYNE : ANDREW REID, 40, PILGRIM-STREET. 1862. Such are the relative positions of the old, natural, and the modem, mathematical music. It seems clear that this posi- tion can never be altered. To expect a simple expressive melody to be appreciated, or even listened to, amidst the harmonious din of contending orchestras and oratorios, that count performers by himdreds, would be to expect a miracle. The Ancient Music, then, must remain in those harbours of refuge amongst the mountains of Northumberland, Scotland, Ireland, Beam, Corsica, Sicily, the Tyrol, Calabria, and Spain, to which it has been driven ; until amidst the muta- tions of society it may, probably, at length, finally disappear and be lost to the world, unless noted down, collected, and put on record. Such a fate I have long anticipated for the Ancient Music of Northumberland, which, being less in volume, much sim- pler, and only an offshoot of the music of Caledonia, may be expected soonest to perish. When, therefore, I learned, as I did some months since, that this subject had attracted the attention of the learned Society of Antiquaries of the town of Newcastle and its vicinity, my gratification was as great and sincere as it was unexpected. I had, in years gone past, sometimes dreamed of venturing upon the undertaking of collecting it single-handed. It was but a dream. A brief con- sideration was amply enough to convince me that to atchieve success in such a quest an expenditure of time and money must be involved far beyond that which any individual in a private station could, for such an object, be expected to incur. When, therefore, I became acquainted with the fact that the Society ol Antiquaries had taken the first step, by the appointment of a sub-committee, for the purpose of taking such measures for the collection and preservation of those interesting musical rehcs as might seem to be most efficient, To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: what do pipemakers do on their day off?
Dave Shaw wrote: I noticed the following on you tube, [1]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FoA3_MHwzZc Very entertaining. Spot the future pipe makers in these photos http://www.kingsmen.co.uk/gallery/thumbnails.php?event=wadebridge1975 -- Anita Evans To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: smallpipes
No she can't ; she didn't in the early days nor can she now. Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
