[NSP] Re: Trad.nsp vs Dartmouth
a couple of the best plpers are trying to make people understand how to play their instrument properly. No prizes for identifying the following quote: She is a very good teacher, demanding accurate staccato playing. C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Billy Pigg
I'm risking a lot here I know but who actually decided how the pipes should be played? Good question! C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Well said, Anthony! The fact that you can play should be obvious to anyone who doesn't have their ego where their ears should be. C -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Anthony Robb Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 9:00 AM To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu; Inky- Adrian Subject: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions --- On Fri, 17/6/11, Inky- Adrian inkyadr...@googlemail.com wrote: Anthony, can you play the NSPs? Hello Adrian It all comes down to what is meant by 'play'. Given the wonderful diversity of humanity there are some people who will answer yes. When I first moved north in 1977 and got 'in amang' what Will Atkinson called 'the real music' (that's where the last strong traditional music scene in England was still alive and kicking) I became immersed in a living music that was still very popular and still being used in communities for mutual entertainment as it had been for centuries. It was a flourishing music scene with a very strong identity but very different from the scene in other parts of Northumberland. This is what happens with traditional music, a fairly tightly defined regional accent builds up and is passed on but is continually evolving thanks to the input of a community rather than a single individual or family. That there was a brilliant family Clough tradition is beyond question. That Billy Pigg studied that tradition with its recognised master is also beyond doubt. Whether that narrow tradition held enough emotional appeal to speak to Billy and a whole community without exception is a very good question to which my answer would be apparently not. Your rather inflected description of Billy Pigg's playing displays a very limited understanding of 'tradition' and the way it operates, evolves and is propagated. Scholars who have studied this topic in depth say that traditional music can be defined as evolving aEUR~through oral transmission' with three major facts shaping transmission: aEUR~continuity linking present to past'; aEUR~variation, from creative impulse of the individual or group' and aEUR~selection by the community, determining form/s in which the music survives'. Writing in the Yearbook of the International Folk Music Council (Vol 7: pp 9-29) R P Elbourne clarified this further: '..traditionality being concensus through time'. It is this point which you choose to ignore and that is your personal choice, but you go further and insist that I ignore the very tradition that I lived among for 27 years and fall in with a much narrower one which does not entirely butter my parsnip. By all means share your thoughts but please don't insist we limit ourselves to your idiosyncratic definitions of 'tradition' or for that matter, Northumbrian. Anthony -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
!DOCTYPE HTML PUBLIC -//W3C//DTD HTML 3.2//EN HTML HEAD META HTTP-EQUIV=Content-Type CONTENT=text/html; charset=utf-8 META NAME=Generator CONTENT=MS Exchange Server version 6.5.7655.2 TITLERE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions/TITLE /HEAD BODY !-- Converted from text/rtf format -- PSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=ArialPlease define quot;canquot; ;-)/FONT/SPAN /P BR PSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arialgt;ThisBI/I/B/FONTBI/I/BBI FONT FACE=Arialcan/FONT/I/BI/IFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arial of worms just lost it's lid/FONT/SPAN BRSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arialgt;/FONT/SPAN BRSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arialgt;/FONT/SPAN /P PSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arialgt;gt;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; Anthony,/FONTB/BBI/I/BBI/I/BBI FONT FACE=Arialcan/FONT/I/BI/IFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arial you play the NSPs?/FONT/SPAN BRSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=Arialgt;gt;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp;nbsp; --/FONT/SPAN /P PSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=ArialPlus ça reste la même chose â¦../FONT/SPAN BRSPAN LANG=en-gbFONT SIZE=2 FACE=ArialCsÃrz/FONT/SPAN /P /BODY /HTML To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Bugger! Dartmouth doesn't like rich text. Here's a proper e-mail: __ From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 10:15 AM To: 'Dave S'; Inky- Adrian Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject:RE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions Please define can ;-) This CAN of worms just lost it's lid Anthony, CAN you play the NSPs? -- Plus ça reste la même chose ….. Csírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Billy Pigg
On 17 Jun 2011, at 01:13, cwhill wrote: I've often heard it said that Beethoven wouldn't recognise his own works if he were to hear them played now. Well that's because he was deaf... Tim To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Deaf/dead
if he were to hear them played now. Well that's because he was deaf... In that case he wouldn't hear them at all, but I reckon being dead is an even greater impediment to hearing them played now. He's been decomposing ever since according to a very old joke. Praps that could explain it. C To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
OK OK I see I just got Visa'd ciao On 6/17/2011 10:17 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Bugger! Dartmouth doesn't like rich text. Here's a proper e-mail: __ From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 10:15 AM To: 'Dave S'; Inky- Adrian Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject:RE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions Please define can ;-) This CAN of worms just lost it's lid Anthony, CAN you play the NSPs? -- Plus ça reste la même chose ….. Csírz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
On 17 Jun 2011, at 09:24, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: I reckon being dead is an even greater impediment to hearing them played now. Well, if he hadn't been the late Beethoven, how could he have composed the Late Quartets? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Is talking good sense traditional? -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Seattle Sent: 17 June 2011 10:49 To: Dartmouth NPS Subject: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Ok, bad choice of composer! He was, however, only deaf in later life. Still good excuse for some bad jokes :) It was a genuine question though. If there is a correct was to play, that must have been decided at sometime by someone. I'm thinking here of the closed fingering techniques, one finger off at a time, no choyting etc. I can understand the concept of setting rules for a competition (so like is compared to like) but when did this idea of proper piping come about? Is it something that came about accidentaly or was is a joint decision from somewhere. As there has been so much discusion (and do remember, being far away from the area, most of my knowledge has come from reading this list) I'm really curious as o how it all started and whether there is some basis (other than personal views) for this. Sorry if this is a rather large can of worms I'm opening Colin Hill On 17/06/2011 09:43, Francis Wood wrote: On 17 Jun 2011, at 09:24,christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: I reckon being dead is an even greater impediment to hearing them played now. Well, if he hadn't been the late Beethoven, how could he have composed the Late Quartets? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3709 - Release Date: 06/17/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
On 17 Jun 2011, at 12:39, cwhill wrote: I'm thinking here of the closed fingering techniques, one finger off at a time, no choyting etc. Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrument rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical instrument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly identifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Operated by open minds. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Tradition
Has it occurred to anyone that once a tradition has started to get self conscious about it's identity, it's got problems? A tradition that is still fully living as a tradition, is just 'how things are', without needing to ask itself what is traditional and what isn't. It even decides what it doesn't like, or rejects, just on the basis that 'we don't like that' or 'other people may, but we don't do it that way'. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Yes! Richard. On 17/06/2011 10:49, Matt Seattle wrote: Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
Yes! Richard On 17/06/2011 10:49, Matt Seattle wrote: Lotsa fun here - Adrian's inspired '6 classes' made me laugh out loud As for 'tradition', it is a neutral, value-free term, there are good traditions and bad - human sacrifice was traditionally practised in some cultures.. As for 'can you play' - in one sense, of course Anthony can play, Adrian can play, and so on. In another sense, none of us can play. Music is a manifestation of Grace beyond all of us. If we are fortunate, occasionally Music visits our stumbling endeavours, and we are blessed. To place a method of articulating notes (detached fingering) above all other considerations - the most obvious being 'which notes?' - is, I venture, missing the point of the exercise. As for Billy Pigg, as has been said here before, his 'Wild Hills' was what pulled many of us in here. It's not pure anything, in the sense of the detached style of the mining areas, or the lilting rhythms of the hill tribes, and it's not faultless playing. But it is pure magic. -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Oops
Sorry, Julia, Sorry - I got in late yesterday, read a few, but hadn't seen that you'd already done this one! Richard. The oil of the little known Ont Rhubbledwarterz tree may be suggested. Richard By the way, does anyone have any good ideas about the right kind of oil to use? Francis -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Hello Francis, Quite so, but, playing devil's advocate for a minute, (and loving tradition except where it becomes tribal), does the fact that we can play staccato and 99% of other pipes can't, mean it's all we should do? The harpsichord, after all, could only really play staccato or slightly sustained, and then the piano came in and could play long sustained, but it doesn't mean we don't still use staccato as part of the vocabulary on the piano. I'm not doubting the value of detached playing at all, it really is the best thing most of the time, but just wanting the occasional extra bit of vocabulary. And as a matter of taste more than a tiny bit of smooth really doesn't suit the nsp's to my mind, but like some spices, the occasional addition can go a long way. I speak more as a listener than claiming great expertise in playing here. Best wishes, Richard. PS should the proper piping movement consider calling itself the Real piping movement? Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrument rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical instrument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly identifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Operated by open minds. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9926SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions
it's its. Define. Get's me s'o cross. Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:31:57 +0200 To: christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu CC: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: david...@pt.lu Subject: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions OK OK I see I just got Visa'd ciao On 6/17/2011 10:17 AM, christopher.bi...@ec.europa.eu wrote: Bugger! Dartmouth doesn't like rich text. Here's a proper e-mail: __ From: BIRCH Christopher (DGT) Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 10:15 AM To: 'Dave S'; Inky- Adrian Cc: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: RE: [NSP] Re: The Dartmouth Competitions Please define can ;-) This CAN of worms just lost it's lid Anthony, CAN you play the NSPs? -- Plus c,a reste la meme chose . Csirz To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3707 - Release Date: 06/16/11 --
[NSP] Re: arrogant
Adrian - if you wish to insult people, please do so offlist. The rest of us (I hope I can safely generalise here) find it embarrassing. Anyone who wishes to contact me, please do so offlist for a while. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The Uilleann pipe chanter can be, and often is, played closed, by resting the chanter on the knee. It's possible, but more difficult, to get just as clean, detatched playing as with nsp. However this isn't seen as a fundamental distinguishing feature, and is not insisted upon. The chanter can be played open or closed, and is indeed played both ways, to get more varied effects. Having a foot in both camps, it's interesting to compare the different attitudes, and the different aspects of playing that are felt to be important to the tradition. Regards Chris Harris To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] arrogant
I was responding to this post. -- Forwarded message -- From: Kyle Eckmann [1]eckmanncustomt...@hotmail.com Date: Jun 17, 2011 1:33 PM Subject: RE: [NSP] Billy Pigg To: [2]inkyadr...@googlemail.com Hello everyone, I've made several requests over the last year to have my address removed from this mailing list. And I'm still on the list. I just have to much to keep up with these days to contribute to the conversation. So here is my contribution. Inky, You display no joy in your position. You come across as an arrogant ass of an old man who doesn't really enjoy the instrument or the music. Now, Can I please be removed from this mailing list? :) Happy piping! Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:50:22 +0100 To: [3]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [4]inkyadr...@googlemail.com Subject: [NSP] Billy Pigg Fortunately, when I was wanting to play the Union pipes, I ended up at DGBs in Longfram. I ended up buying the NSPs. Billy Pigg was the piper I went for because he was sympathetic to Irish music, having been influenced by Irish musicians and their music, and Scottish music. Pigg also imitated the various pipes of these countries. He wasn't interested in tradition. Because of him and various other pipers, including me, the NSPs have almost become a mixture of playing styles with the proper technique almost being lost. The NSPs are loosing their roots and loosing their identity because of lazy, so called players, who don't know how to play or can't do it properly because of their slow dexterity or their Pigg stupid ideas. I'm saying this because I care and it takes a Lancastrian to do it. I've taken to the tradition more than most and those who say the NSPs can be played any-old-how are the ones ruining the pipes. Why don't you take up an easy instrument to play instead of lowering the standard of a fantastic instrument? or just stop posting on here. The forum, which I made because it was needed, would not tolerate my post nor any other postings of this sort becsuse we have one goal: Traditional NSPs, their history, playing, etc etc. There is no disagreement with us, we are just progressing and preserving our NPSs away from those who know little or nothing. So keep on Dartmouth, where you can bitch, argue or whatever. Nothing is documented or catagorised on here, our forum does this and we are the Borg-we are the future. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:eckmanncustomt...@hotmail.com 2. mailto:inkyadr...@googlemail.com 3. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:inkyadr...@googlemail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: arrogant
I have received no emails via the list from Kyle Eckmann, who doesn't seem to be on it. Why would he ask you to be removed from a list which you don't administer? I think you have been wound up -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Inky- Adrian Sent: 17 June 2011 15:21 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] arrogant I was responding to this post. -- Forwarded message -- From: Kyle Eckmann [1]eckmanncustomt...@hotmail.com Date: Jun 17, 2011 1:33 PM Subject: RE: [NSP] Billy Pigg To: [2]inkyadr...@googlemail.com Hello everyone, I've made several requests over the last year to have my address removed from this mailing list. And I'm still on the list. I just have to much to keep up with these days to contribute to the conversation. So here is my contribution. Inky, You display no joy in your position. You come across as an arrogant ass of an old man who doesn't really enjoy the instrument or the music. Now, Can I please be removed from this mailing list? :) Happy piping! Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:50:22 +0100 To: [3]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [4]inkyadr...@googlemail.com Subject: [NSP] Billy Pigg Fortunately, when I was wanting to play the Union pipes, I ended up at DGBs in Longfram. I ended up buying the NSPs. Billy Pigg was the piper I went for because he was sympathetic to Irish music, having been influenced by Irish musicians and their music, and Scottish music. Pigg also imitated the various pipes of these countries. He wasn't interested in tradition. Because of him and various other pipers, including me, the NSPs have almost become a mixture of playing styles with the proper technique almost being lost. The NSPs are loosing their roots and loosing their identity because of lazy, so called players, who don't know how to play or can't do it properly because of their slow dexterity or their Pigg stupid ideas. I'm saying this because I care and it takes a Lancastrian to do it. I've taken to the tradition more than most and those who say the NSPs can be played any-old-how are the ones ruining the pipes. Why don't you take up an easy instrument to play instead of lowering the standard of a fantastic instrument? or just stop posting on here. The forum, which I made because it was needed, would not tolerate my post nor any other postings of this sort becsuse we have one goal: Traditional NSPs, their history, playing, etc etc. There is no disagreement with us, we are just progressing and preserving our NPSs away from those who know little or nothing. So keep on Dartmouth, where you can bitch, argue or whatever. Nothing is documented or catagorised on here, our forum does this and we are the Borg-we are the future. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:eckmanncustomt...@hotmail.com 2. mailto:inkyadr...@googlemail.com 3. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:inkyadr...@googlemail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: arrogant
I am afraid that it is a classic schoolboy error to reply on list to an off list message. I have seen this a lot on other lists and it is often a source of rancour. If you look at the heading of the offending email it is clear that was sent only to inky Mike Quoting Gibbons, John j.gibb...@imperial.ac.uk: I have received no emails via the list from Kyle Eckmann, who doesn't seem to be on it. Why would he ask you to be removed from a list which you don't administer? I think you have been wound up -Original Message- From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [mailto:lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] On Behalf Of Inky- Adrian Sent: 17 June 2011 15:21 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] arrogant I was responding to this post. -- Forwarded message -- From: Kyle Eckmann [1]eckmanncustomt...@hotmail.com Date: Jun 17, 2011 1:33 PM Subject: RE: [NSP] Billy Pigg To: [2]inkyadr...@googlemail.com Hello everyone, I've made several requests over the last year to have my address removed from this mailing list. And I'm still on the list. I just have to much to keep up with these days to contribute to the conversation. So here is my contribution. Inky, You display no joy in your position. You come across as an arrogant ass of an old man who doesn't really enjoy the instrument or the music. Now, Can I please be removed from this mailing list? :) Happy piping! Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2011 00:50:22 +0100 To: [3]nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu From: [4]inkyadr...@googlemail.com Subject: [NSP] Billy Pigg Fortunately, when I was wanting to play the Union pipes, I ended up at DGBs in Longfram. I ended up buying the NSPs. Billy Pigg was the piper I went for because he was sympathetic to Irish music, having been influenced by Irish musicians and their music, and Scottish music. Pigg also imitated the various pipes of these countries. He wasn't interested in tradition. Because of him and various other pipers, including me, the NSPs have almost become a mixture of playing styles with the proper technique almost being lost. The NSPs are loosing their roots and loosing their identity because of lazy, so called players, who don't know how to play or can't do it properly because of their slow dexterity or their Pigg stupid ideas. I'm saying this because I care and it takes a Lancastrian to do it. I've taken to the tradition more than most and those who say the NSPs can be played any-old-how are the ones ruining the pipes. Why don't you take up an easy instrument to play instead of lowering the standard of a fantastic instrument? or just stop posting on here. The forum, which I made because it was needed, would not tolerate my post nor any other postings of this sort becsuse we have one goal: Traditional NSPs, their history, playing, etc etc. There is no disagreement with us, we are just progressing and preserving our NPSs away from those who know little or nothing. So keep on Dartmouth, where you can bitch, argue or whatever. Nothing is documented or catagorised on here, our forum does this and we are the Borg-we are the future. -- To get on or off this list see list information at [5]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:eckmanncustomt...@hotmail.com 2. mailto:inkyadr...@googlemail.com 3. mailto:nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu 4. mailto:inkyadr...@googlemail.com 5. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Arrogant
Kyle was on the list - he signed up a couple of years ago. Now he is off. If anyone else wants to leave the list send 'em to me. Wayne To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Hello Richard, I think we pretty much agree. Who, for example, would want to play Rothbury Hills in a staccato manner? (Who, indeed would want to play RH in any manner whatsoever, some might interject.) However it was composed by a significant piper who happened to be the official piper to the Duke of somewhere or other. So like it or not, it's part of the tradition. Often improved, if you get the chance to hear it, by Inky-Adrian's farmyard impressions. That harpsichord comparison is mightily good, since that and the NSP have some principles remarkably in common. However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. That has as much to do with what the contemporary listener actually heard, knowing the style and nature of the music, rather than the acoustic output of the instrument. While we're usefully on this topic, here's an opportunity to quote one of the greatest of harpsichordists in one of the bitchiest-ever remarks about taste: Well, you play Bach your way and I'll play him his way. That was Wanda Landowska. Much quoted in that remark, though it turns out that it was playfully said to a dear colleague and longtime friend, the cellist Pablo Casals. B! . . . Mooo! . . .. Oink-oink!!! Francis On 17 Jun 2011, at 13:50, Richard York wrote: Hello Francis, Quite so, but, playing devil's advocate for a minute, (and loving tradition except where it becomes tribal), does the fact that we can play staccato and 99% of other pipes can't, mean it's all we should do? The harpsichord, after all, could only really play staccato or slightly sustained, and then the piano came in and could play long sustained, but it doesn't mean we don't still use staccato as part of the vocabulary on the piano. I'm not doubting the value of detached playing at all, it really is the best thing most of the time, but just wanting the occasional extra bit of vocabulary. And as a matter of taste more than a tiny bit of smooth really doesn't suit the nsp's to my mind, but like some spices, the occasional addition can go a long way. I speak more as a listener than claiming great expertise in playing here. Best wishes, Richard. PS should the proper piping movement consider calling itself the Real piping movement? Hi Colin and others, The closed-fingering technique derives much more from the nature of the instrument rather than any opinions about style. Since the NSP chanter has a stopped end, there would be little point in adopting anything other than this fingering style, which allows separate notes with (usually) a distinguishable silence between each. This is something that no other bagpipe can do. In fact it would be difficult to think of another wind instrument capable of silence whilst pressure is applied. At present I can only identify the ocarina. The limits of any bag-blown chanter/ oboe are obvious. Almost no opportunity for dynamics, and very little for on-the-go tuning. The scale of the primitive NSP chanter is confined to eight notes. This is clearly a chicken egg situation - the construction and the style of playing of instruments are closely related, and neither predates the other. What commonly happens with almost any musical instrument is that its limitations are adopted into the playing style as highly identifiable and positive features. Hence, closed fingering. Operated by open minds. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html --- Text inserted by Panda IS 2011: This message has NOT been classified as spam. If it is unsolicited mail (spam), click on the following link to reclassify it: http://localhost:6083/Panda?ID=pav_9926SPAM=truepath=C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\Richard\Local%20Settings\Application%20Data\Panda%20Security\Panda%20Internet%20Security%202011\AntiSpam ---
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:14, ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: The Uilleann pipe chanter can be, and often is, played closed, by resting the chanter on the knee. It's possible, but more difficult, to get just as clean, detatched playing as with nsp. However this isn't seen as a fundamental distinguishing feature, and is not insisted upon. The chanter can be played open or closed, and is indeed played both ways, to get more varied effects. Hello Chris, Thanks for this. I'm ignorant about Uilleann pipes as you'll probably gather. But do you mean to say that the chanter can be played using two radically different fingering systems and still remain _in tune_? If not, can the closed method probably really and properly be regarded as part of the core technique of those pipes? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Quoting Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com: Hello Richard, I think we pretty much agree. Who, for example, would want to play Rothbury Hills in a staccato manner? Detached playing is not necessarily staccato. When the notes are long, the spaces seem even shorter. (Who, indeed would want to play RH in any manner whatsoever, some might interject.) The Rothbury hill-billies, I guess However it was composed by a significant piper who happened to be the official piper to the Duke of somewhere or other. Joe Hutton seemed a bit lukewarm about that. (Jack lived in Wideopen and I understand he wasn't always flavour of the month with the Powburn Lads. So like it or not, it's part of the tradition. Often improved, if you get the chance to hear it, by Inky-Adrian's farmyard impressions. That harpsichord comparison is mightily good, since that and the NSP have some principles remarkably in common. However, I think we differ over the harpsichord's ability to play 'long-sustained'. That famous Northumbrian tune Jocky's long sustained in the organ loft That has as much to do with what the contemporary listener actually heard, knowing the style and nature of the music, rather than the acoustic output of the instrument. While we're usefully on this topic, here's an opportunity to quote one of the greatest of harpsichordists in one of the bitchiest-ever remarks about taste: Well, you play Bach your way and I'll play him his way. Ah. harpsichord duets. The sound of skeletons copulating on a corrugated tin roof. (Boult? Arnorld? cant remember!) oops should have been can't (Henri l'apostrophe) That's enuff B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Love it -- copulating skeletons eh bien 'enri c'est formidable Thanks for that Barry cheers Dave S On 6/17/2011 10:44 PM, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: Quoting Francis Wood oatenp...@googlemail.com: Ah. harpsichord duets. The sound of skeletons copulating on a corrugated tin roof. (Boult? Arnorld? cant remember!) oops should have been can't (Henri l'apostrophe) That's enuff B. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3709 - Release Date: 06/17/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
On 17 Jun 2011, at 21:44, barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: The sound of skeletons copulating on a corrugated tin roof. Rattling the parrot's cage with a toasting fork is another. What a good thing nobody would ever say anything so cruel about our magnificent instrument. Positive remarks only, about it's neatness of execution. As was once famously said, the sound should resemble 'NSP's coming out of a pod. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
Positive remarks only, about it's neatness of execution. When I said it's, I hope it's obvious that its real meaning was its. Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf/dead
I do have a set of UPs (nasty cheap ones which I bought reasonably as they had been over 5 years on the shop shelf and nobody knew anything about them (yes, from Hobgoblin) - no regulators) but they still weigh a ton. The fingering chart I managed to find may give you an idea http://www.howardmusic.co.uk/owners_club/uillean_pipes_finger_chart.htm I found the on the knee off the knee very difficult to try and get the hang of (that, plus the sheer weight of the thing has resulted in it finding a new home behind the sofa - I admitted defeat). Makes the NSP seem a user-friendly instrument, at least. I think you will be interested in this (note the phrase in the intro re staccato playing as well). I may try playing them again if I can get a bung to fit the hole in the stock that the drones fit into - I just can't manage the weight these days - anyone got a big cork? Colin Hill On 17/06/2011 20:58, Francis Wood wrote: On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:14, ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: The Uilleann pipe chanter can be, and often is, played closed, by resting the chanter on the knee. It's possible, but more difficult, to get just as clean, detatched playing as with nsp. However this isn't seen as a fundamental distinguishing feature, and is not insisted upon. The chanter can be played open or closed, and is indeed played both ways, to get more varied effects. Hello Chris, Thanks for this. I'm ignorant about Uilleann pipes as you'll probably gather. But do you mean to say that the chanter can be played using two radically different fingering systems and still remain _in tune_? If not, can the closed method probably really and properly be regarded as part of the core technique of those pipes? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3709 - Release Date: 06/17/11 - No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 10.0.1382 / Virus Database: 1513/3709 - Release Date: 06/17/11
[NSP] Re: Deaf, dead OR just bemused
Quoting smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk: Can anyone remember which famous smallpiper once fitted a regulator to a set of smallpipes and reinvented the melodian (or at least the sound of one)? Yes, I can. As I remember, to my ears it sounded rather like a harmonium. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: UP open/closed tuning
Francis, I think the tuning of modern UP is optimised when they're played closed. If the chanter's played open, it drinks more air, and plays sharper. Johnny Doran played off the knee a lot, and when Willie Clancy 1st heard him, he thought he was out of tune - a heresy which he repented in later life. Off the knee is a wilder sound, partly because of the element of danger. If you think of UP, played open, in terms of its origin, as a Pastoral pipe chanter with the end missing, then you realise the tuning must be sharpened a bit, without extra fingers downstream to bring it back into tune. However with a conical bore the effect of a finger more or less, more than 2 holes downstream, is fairly minimal. The art in designing them must be to make sure the tuning is consistent (if not the same), across both octaves, in either fingering system. It must be said that not all chanters I've heard succeeded in this. John From: lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu [lute-...@cs.dartmouth.edu] on behalf of Francis Wood [oatenp...@googlemail.com] Sent: 17 June 2011 20:58 To: ch...@harris405.plus.com Cc: Dartmouth nsp list N.P.S. site Subject: [NSP] Re: Deaf/dead On 17 Jun 2011, at 14:14, ch...@harris405.plus.com wrote: The Uilleann pipe chanter can be, and often is, played closed, by resting the chanter on the knee. It's possible, but more difficult, to get just as clean, detatched playing as with nsp. However this isn't seen as a fundamental distinguishing feature, and is not insisted upon. The chanter can be played open or closed, and is indeed played both ways, to get more varied effects. Hello Chris, Thanks for this. I'm ignorant about Uilleann pipes as you'll probably gather. But do you mean to say that the chanter can be played using two radically different fingering systems and still remain _in tune_? If not, can the closed method probably really and properly be regarded as part of the core technique of those pipes? Francis To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf, dead OR just bemused
Robbie Greensit, wasn't it? On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 3:07 PM, [1]barr...@nspipes.co.uk wrote: Quoting [2]smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk: Can anyone remember which famous smallpiper once fitted a regulator to a set of smallpipes and reinvented the melodian (or at least the sound of one)? Yes, I can. As I remember, to my ears it sounded rather like a harmonium. Barry To get on or off this list see list information at [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. mailto:barr...@nspipes.co.uk 2. mailto:smallpi...@machineconcepts.co.uk 3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Re: Deaf, dead OR just bemused
I did play the NSPs with regulators and won in the other category, not trad. NSPing. Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
