[NSP] NSP set for sale
Selling a beautiful Heriot Allan NSP combination set D/G with 5 drones, 9-key D chanter and 7-key G chanter. Reid style (fully mounted, Blackwood/im. ivory/ brass engraved ferrules), soft travel case w. protective tubes, bellows. New bag, new HA bag cover and all keypads replaced 1 year ago. Set is excellent in every way, asking $3000 (Seattle/Tacoma area). Pictures available upon request at [1]mf...@hotmail.com -- References 1. mailto:mf...@hotmail.com To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP spotted on ebay UK
[1]http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_ Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 Can anyone identify the maker? I am not associated with the sale or interested in bidding on them. Just curious. -- References 1. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Northumbrian-Smallpipes-/120858672456?pt=UK_Woodwind_Instrumentshash=item1c23bcfd48 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp for sale (by owner)
Set of pipes by the late Quentin Rose made c. 1996-7. Ebony and a silver coloured metal. 17 key chanter. In Gloucestershire, UK. Contact details available on request. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP help needed near Cleveland, Ohio, USA (quoting from Dunsire Forums)
The following was posted today on Dunsire Bagpipe Forums, directing here for a better audience. I'm not involved at all, just spreading the word: Link here: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136744 Recently a friend of mine re acquired her deciest husband's NSP and would like to learn to play them. They were made by David Burleigh w/ 9 keys, 4 drones and cane reeds. Since I live 150 miles away and play Cushing SSP w/ plastic reeds, I may not be much help. She lives in Medina, Oh., south of Cleveland, west of Akron, and just off I71. Any help and/or advice will be appreciated, C. Jim -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [nsp] re-conditioning ...
I'm ashamed to say ... but it has to be. my pipes have sat for too long. just took them out again. (yes, shame on me ... ) 2 areas are in need of help. 1 - the weather here is very damp. turns out the joints are stuck. any suggestions on how to unstick them - without waiting for the right few days in the middle of summer - would be helpful 2 - any suggestions on cleaning the green off the brass? thanx! i promise to be a better steward in the future... victor To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP concertina
Thanks for the reminder about the Glackin/Keenan CD. It will always be associated with the solace it gave me while holed up in a Manhattan hotel during a week of terrifyingly dull business meetings. As for NSP concertina, if you haven't yet listened to Rob Say's CD O'er Lang at the Fair Veteran (VT157CD) do yourself a favor and get a copy. I bought mine from www.bagpipediscs.com. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP for sale
Hi, I have been told of a 1985 Robbie Greensit's, G, 7 keys, 5 complicated drones set of pipes for sale. He was thinking in terms of about 2.400 (£2,000 ) for: G set of pipes: 7 keys chanter, 5 complicated drones (w/reeds) F 9 keys chanter (w/reed) D 9 keys chanter (w/reed) They are now in Italy. I have seen and played them and If anyone would like contact details, please contact me offlist. Kind regards, Valerio -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP and Hardanger Fiddle?
Hello all, I was wondering if anyone had any experience playing along with a hardanger fiddle? If so, any general advice, or suggestions on tunes that work well with the two instruments (from either tradition)? Thanks, Colin Everett To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [NSP]
Hello all, regarding Alnwick piper's website: Hosting for this domain is not configured or the domain is not registered. Inky-Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp on ebay
Item number:330436232666 Set with 9 key chanter, 4 tuning beads, made by Henry Knox, 5 years old. Standing at 275.00 GBP with a buy it now of 325.00 In the UK I have no knowledge of the set nor interest in the sale (beyond seeing what it goes for!) HTH Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP duet with other instruments
Margaret's comment: When I'm playing duets with Andy's nsp, I always tune down. For me, I've spent a long time trying to find the right fiddle and strings so it doesn't sound like a kipper-box (or I hope it doesn't) when tuned lower. made me think, what about baroque violinists? Specialist baroque orchestras and soloists play at A=415 or a semitone lower than modern standard pitch and very occasionally even lower. This is getting on for low enough to play with standard-pitch Northumbrian pipes. Proper baroque violins have the neck set at a flatter angle than ordinary modern violins/fiddles (neck angle was increased in the 19th cent. among other things to enable higher string tension - louder tone). 18th century classical technique had a lot more in common with the playing styles of traditional music than modern classical technique does e.g. bow-hold, sometimes playing with fiddle held lower, using first position and open strings more etc. - and generally it was less high-tension than modern violin playing. This doesn't mean it lacks life, and good baroque violinists certainly don't sound as if they're playing on a kipper-box strung with knicker elastic. Would using specialist baroque-violin gut strings on a standard fiddle make for better results at the lower pitch? Just some thoughts from a non-string player, so excuse any ignorance shown! Philip To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP Bellows
Hi All, Not a discussion point more a cry for help!!! Having just had my pipes fettled after a few years of abuse I now find I have some problems with the bellows. Does anyone have a set of fairly standard bellows that they no longer use and would be willing to sell them? If not in the best of condition,providing they could be reasonably fettled , then I would be grateful for help. If anyone can help could you please contact me directly at pipe...@tiscali.co.uk Living in hope Guy Tindale To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [nsp]
Yes, I like this forum, until it's disturbed by ' The Child' having a tantrum. Inky-Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp on ebay
The set of concert G pipes I mentioned before Christmas is currently on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/NORTHUMBRIAN-SMALL-PIPES-IN- G_W0QQitemZ200429375064QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Woodwind_Instruments?hash=item2eaa858e5 8 It's in the UK I know nothing further of them or the buyer. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP oil for pipes and key pads
Hi all, I know this question has probably been asked before, but what oil should I use to oil the wood and the key pads on my NSP? Also, how does one obtain the little nail polish bottle with the cap/brush that I've seen professional use when oiling their pipes? Thank you. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP
I don't use anything for my pads, nor do I clean my chanter between 1 year or more. Inky-Adrian -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP item on BBC Radio 4
A very nice item yesterday on BBC Radio 4 from Morpeth Chantry Bagpipe Museum.
Congratulations to everyone who spoke or played; it was really good!
The programme ('Questions, Questions', 13.30) is available for the next 6 days
at:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/programmes/schedules/fm/2009/12/31
Francis
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[NSP] NSP maker Ian Ketchin
A friend of mine has noticed a set of Northumbrian small pipes for sale on e-bay and has asked me what I think of them. I have never heard of the maker, Ian Ketchin, but he has a very impressive web page. Is there a reason why he is not listed as a maker on any of the usual web sites? Any information would be appreciated. Richard -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [NSP]website
Hi all I was sent the following link to a website in Japanese. [1]http://blog.arukikata.co.jp/tokuhain/glasgow/2009/09/post_76.html I know it will interest a few of you so I'm passing it on. My translation machinery did a fair job on it. Cheers, Dave [2]Dave Shaw, Northumbrian and Scottish Smallpipes, Irish Pipes and SHAW Whistles www.daveshaw.co.uk -- References 1. http://blog.arukikata.co.jp/tokuhain/glasgow/2009/09/post_76.html 2. http://www.daveshaw.co.ukhttp//blog.arukikata.co.jp/tokuhain/glasgow/2009/09/post_76.html To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009 at 15:11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: But no light on what the title meant - until someone turns up some song lyrics, we are probably left with guesswork as the best way of working out that one. Lyrics to a different tune: Fresh Aw cum frrae Sandgate Street Dolli, dolli. Maw best freends here to meet Dollia Dolli the dillen dol Dolli, dolli Dolli the dillen dol Dollia Who was Dolly the dillen doll? What was a dillen doll? Any theories? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009 at 15:11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: But no light on what the title meant - until someone turns up some song lyrics, we are probably left with guesswork as the best way of working out that one. Lyrics to a different tune: Fresh Aw cum frrae Sandgate Street Dolli, dolli. Maw best freends here to meet Dollia Dolli the dillen dol Dolli, dolli Dolli the dillen dol Dollia Who was Dolly the dillen doll? What was a dillen doll? Any theories? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP] Re: Cut and Dry Dolly
On 16 Sep 2009 at 15:11, gibbonssoi...@aol.com wrote: But no light on what the title meant - until someone turns up some song lyrics, we are probably left with guesswork as the best way of working out that one. Lyrics to a different tune: Fresh Aw cum frrae Sandgate Street Dolli, dolli. Maw best freends here to meet Dollia Dolli the dillen dol Dolli, dolli Dolli the dillen dol Dollia Who was Dolly the dillen doll? What was a dillen doll? Any theories? Barry To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP
Where is the NSPS going? What do the NSPS want? Who is the NSPS? What are Northumberland -small-pipes. What is tradition? What is the Bellingham Show Adrian To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp
More years ago than I care to remember, there was an excellent TV documentary in which the classical violinist Yehudi Menuhin met with an old Shetland fiddler (can't remember his name, sorry - big tall chap with receding hair and a winning smile and twinkle in his eyes - I think he was in his 80s then) and they discussed the instrument and played each others favourite tunes etc. Hi folks, it was the great Dr. Tom ANderson of Eshaness. Sir Yehudi once visited us unexpectedly when I was an undergraduate at Queens College, Dundee. He gave a brilliant afternoon concert at the Student`s Union. We asked him to play some Scots music, when he smiled wryly and said, I am useless at Scots music. I cannot play the snap, you see ! It would appear that afte r struggling with the finer points of Shetland music, he had gone on to meet my second cousin, Kenny Wilson - also a brilliant Hardanger player - in the Borders just before playing at the Usher Hall. As my cousin told me many years later:- He cudna get the snap ava Unfortunately in those days, I was not musically active, although I organised the student`s concerts from my wee room up in The Halls of Residence in Airlie Place. Cheers now Ina -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] [NSP]Re: First 30 tunes
Hi Mike and List As someone who was trying to join in on accordion at Halsway during the Sunday evening playaround. I suppose I had a slight advantage over those who had never heard the tunes before, but it was a new experience to try and play them all in the key of F which has slightly different fingering patterns to G due to the different use of the thumb! For some it was possibly a new experience to play in the key of F, full stop. May be there is a market hear for unemployed accordionists who can play in F? Alan Corkett -Original Message- From: Mike and Enid Walton [mailto:mikeande...@worcesterfolk.org.uk] Sent: 07 March 2009 06:53 To: nsp@cs.dartmouth.edu Subject: [NSP] [NSP]Re: irst 30 tunes If tunes (the first 30 in the current context, but it holds for all the NPS tunes) were posted in abc format on the NPS website, it would enable people with the necessary programs to print them in whatever format they wished, hear them as midis, transpose them etc. It might, of course, reduce the sales of NPS books. I thought about this when we were playing tunes on F chanters at Halsway with other musicians. The music books proferred by pipers were of course no good to the other musicians unless they were really expert at transposing on the hoof. Mike Walton -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp for sale
I have been given details of a set of Philip Gruar's pipes for sale by the original owner. They are in blackwood nickel finish, and have a 7 key chanter. They are in the UK. Contact me offlist for full details if interested - if not sold by the end of Feb they will be advertised in the March NPS newsletter. Julia To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP for sale
Hi everyone, I'm selling an 11 key Burleigh set in F+ pitch with four drones with tuning slides and beads. Bag is purple velvet and the belows are walnut. The set plays in tune and has a nice sound (I had problems with the top e, but having heard the set in the hands of a good piper, I can confidently state that the problem was mine and not the pipes' !). I paid 970 euro for it in 2007 and will happily accept reasonable offers. Thanks! Allan To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP and pop music
Greetings - Got a call today from the Museum of Fine Art in Boston where they are teaching a course on the use of traditional instruments in pop music. They were specifically looking for examples where bagpipes were used in widely recognized pop songs. I could recall some instances where Loud Highland Bagpipes and Uilleann pipes were involved but nothing off-hand for NSP (other than Ryofu and let's not go there again.). Appreciate any input related to NSP - and any other types while you're at it. Best wishes. Steve -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP Loud drones
Hi all,=3Fxml:namespace prefix = o ns = urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office /o:p/o:p assuming your drone reeds are set and balanced properly, I suggest the following.o:p/o:p The next time you have a big mac, get some drinking straws, slit one lengthwise and fit a section down into the standing part of the drone. I would not use wool, the fibres cause turbulence in the air passing through. The drinking straw trick cleanly reduces the dimension of the bore after the drone. This means that the acoustic energy propagates symmetrically down through a smaller volume of air. Any spiral turbulence in the air (depending on the maker !) will be moving more quickly and will therefore be more stable. My experience is that this seems to quieten down the drone without changing the acoustic behaviour characteristics of the drone reed itself. There are of course, many other problems why drones are loud, which can be fettled in different ways according to your playing experience. To be continued o:p/o:p o:p /o:p Yours ayeo:p/o:p Ina o:p/o:p -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp for sale
Hello list Before I offer elsewhere, I thought Id ask if anyone here is interested. I'd ordered a fully-mounted set from Anita and Richard Evans. In the intervening months before I actually took delivery of the pipes, my personal situation changed and I no longer have the free time I thought I would have to play. Rather than see them sit idle, Id prefer to sell. The pipes, located in Canada, are in pristine condition, having been briefly tried out on a couple of occasions only. The chanter is in F, 7-keyed, with nickel-plated keys. The bag cover is red velvet. A lovely set! Anyone familiar with Evans instruments will know that the craftsmanship is of the highest order. The set comes in a black, semi-rigid, padded case custom-made for nsps. I have spare chanter and drone reeds and key pads. If a buyer was a beginner I could include the Leistman and the Butler tutors. Photos available. The value of the set is just over US$3,700. Will ship worldwide. If interested, please contact me off-list email: editcmb at hotmail dot com Cheers Michael _ Windows Live Hotmail, with safety bar colour coding, helps identify suspicious mail before it takes your daughter out on a date. Upgrade today for a better look. www.newhotmail.ca?icid=WLHMENCA152 To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP-Tradition
Presumably the Traditional tunes for the NSP would be among those included in the basic tune books. However I have reason to believe that many of these started life as fiddle tunes and many more, which lie beautifully on the pipes (such as Madame Bonapart) came from other parts of what used to be called the British Isles. As there seems to be a lack of clarity in the subject under discussion, it would be most interesting to see a list of perhaps 20 - 30 tunes, compiled by those who regard themselves as purists, of what may be called the best NSP traditional music .Are they essentially tunes which started life as pipe tunes? Are they tunes which lie easily under the fingers of the piper? Are they tunes which make you smile and feel happy because they have that lovely bubbling sound which we feel to be typical of the instrument (and which often, basicly, means that they include lots of bouncing, ascending G major arpeggios) ? Are they simply tunes which make the pipes sound like the most beautiful instrument ever invented? Having grown up in canny Newcastle, hearing songs such as The Keel Row, The Waters of Tyne and Keep your Feet Still, Geordie Hinney I am well aware that they are (perhaps I should say, are considered by many as . . ?) traditional Northumbrian folk songs and, although they are frequently played on our favourite instrument, I personally don't feel that (excluding variations on the Keel Row composed by a certain eminent piper) in any way, they show off its true beauty. Equally, I think it has to be admitted, there are quite a few tunes in the basic books that don't really do much for the instrument. The Northumbrian pipes are enjoyed by so many people from many different national, cultural and musical backgrounds that I feel a definition of what is really and truly traditional would be appreciated. Sheila -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP wanted....... clarification
I recently posted a note expressing my desire to find a nice NSP set in F or G. I said in that message that I'd really like an Evans set do to the fact that I've heard samples of Evans sets and was delighted with them. However, I'm sure I'd be similarly delighted with a Say, Leistman, Ross or other fine set in G or F. Didn't mean to give the impression that I was exclusively after an Evans. :) As I mentioned, I have some really great instruments I could swap (http://irishflutestore.com/) or am willing to do a cash deal too. Cheers, Patrick http://irishflutestore.com/ Send money order or cashiers check payable to Patrick Jones to: Patrick Jones PO Box 81 Buhl, ID 83316 USA Or, To make payments via Paypal.com use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the recipient. Please add 3.5% to total to cover Paypal fees. PH. 208-543-2600 Call any time 7 am to 10 pm MST :) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP (still) Wanted please-o-please-o-please.
Anyone have an NSP set available? I'm in the market. I would really like an Evans set in F or G. I have 2 uilleann pipes practice sets or anything on my website http://irishflutestore.com/ toward a trade or would be happy to do a cash deal. :) Cheers, Patrick http://irishflutestore.com/ Send money order or cashiers check payable to Patrick Jones to: Patrick Jones PO Box 81 Buhl, ID 83316 USA Or, To make payments via Paypal.com use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the recipient. Please add 3.5% to total to cover Paypal fees. PH. 208-543-2600 Call any time 7 am to 10 pm MST :) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP wanted update. :)
HI folks, I've received some great advice. Thanks to all for such a great list. :) Just an update. I have sold the Gallagher UP 1/2 set so it's no longer on the table for a NSP deal. However I still have 2 UP Practice sets that could enter into negotiations. One is a Brad Angus Narrow bore chanter with Fnat and cnat keys. Brad just made two brand new reeds for it and it's playing well. The Bag and Bellows are by CJ Dixon and are brand new. This one has a warm, mellow tone perfect for playing in the house with out getting that look from your wife. :) The Other set is a brand new CJ Dixon D practice set in cocobolo and brass with Blackwood mounts and a swan neck. I'm a dealer for CJ. Anyway, let me know if you'd be interested in working something out. :) Cheers, Patrick http://irishflutestore.com/ Send money order or cashiers check payable to Patrick Jones to: Patrick Jones PO Box 81 Buhl, ID 83316 USA Or, To make payments via Paypal.com use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the recipient. Please add 3.5% to total to cover Paypal fees. PH. 208-543-2600 Call any time 7 am to 10 pm MST :) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP wanted
Hi all, I'm new to the list and may be in the market for an NSP set. Does anyone have anything available? I can pay cash or swap for anything in my store. I also have a nice 1/2 set of Gallagher Uilleann pipes to throw in the mix. Cheers, Patrick http://irishflutestore.com/ Send money order or cashiers check payable to Patrick Jones to: Patrick Jones PO Box 81 Buhl, ID 83316 USA Or, To make payments via Paypal.com use [EMAIL PROTECTED] as the recipient. Please add 3.5% to total to cover Paypal fees. PH. 208-543-2600 Call any time 7 am to 10 pm MST :) -- To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] nsp lurker with question about sale
I've been lurking on the list for some time and have been inspired to re-start playing on a new set of pipes. It's definitely time to put a squeeze on my priorities and get dotty about music again! Anyway, is it proper list etiquette to offer a set to sell here? My older set needs a bit of work and a new home... Steve To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] NSP Technochanter
A few weeks ago I brought a prototype of Anders Fagerström's new NSP technochanter to Halsway Manor and a lot of people asked for info, so am just letting you know that Anders is now ready to make them. I haven't got a vested interest in sales, I'm just a beginning piper needing to learn to finger the tunes without the added stress of bag and bellows; I wanted this for my own use and I love it. It fits neatly into a pocket so you can practise anywhere, without being heard! It's keyless, in F (where A=440), and you can listen using earbuds or speakers. Pictures and more info can be found at http://www.technochanter.com All the best, Poppy [Poppy Holden, Chair, Sutton House Music Society www.shms.org.uk] To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[NSP] Nsp course in BC in July
Hi everybody, I will be teaching a 6-day Northumbrian smallpipes course from July 9-14 on Vancouver Island in British Columbia. The school has moved this year to a resort on the shores of the Georgia strait, with sand beaches and mountain views toward Whistler in the Canadian Coast Range. I highly recommend the 6-day format. You can go into much greater depth with almost any aspect of piping than you can in a weekend, and the people have more time to practice between their sessions with the instructor. This particular school also allows for both major and elective classes, so you can study more than one topic (for a full list of courses taught at the school, see their website). For information, or to register for this event, go to http://www.celticperformingarts.com or call (in North America) 250/758-0208, or 866/301-2358. For questions specifically about the Northumbrian smallpipes course, contact me. --- Dick HensoldSt. Paul, MN651/646-6581 Traditional Folk Music, Early Music, and Cambodian Music Northumbrian smallpipes, recorder, Medieval greatpipes,Swedish sackpipa, beyaw. To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
